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Seat of the week: Rankin

Recent polling may have steadied his nerves a little, but senior minister Craig Emerson remains no certainty for re-election in a seat that has stayed with Labor since its creation in 1984.

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Craig Emerson’s seat of Rankin has been held by Labor without interruption since its creation, but like all the party’s Queensland seats has looked precarious during the worst of its polling during the current term. The seat came into being with the enlargement of parliament in 1984, at which time it extended far beyond the bounds of the metropolitan area to the south-west, encompassing Warwick and a stretch of the New South Wales border. It is now located wholly in the outer south of suburban Brisbane, covering the northern part of Logan City from Woodridge and Kingston north to Priestdale and west to Hillcrest. The redistribution before the 2010 election drew it further into the metropolitan area, adding Algester, Calamvale and Drewvale north of the Logan-Brisbane municipal boundary. This territory accounts for much of Brisbane’s mortgage belt, and furnishes the seat with the equal lowest median age of any electorate in Australia. The Logan area is the source of Labor’s strength, but it is balanced by naturally marginal territory around Calamvale to the west and Springwood to the east.

Prior to the 1996 election, the seat was a highly marginal combination of Labor-voting outer suburbia and conservative rural areas, which Labor held by margins of between 0.6% and 5.5%. It was then transformed with the transfer of the rural areas to Forde and the compensating gain of low-income Brisbane suburbs, which boosted the margin by 9.8%. In the event Labor needed every bit of it to survive the Queensland backlash of 1996, which in Rankin manifested in an 11.1% swing. An unfavourable redistribution ahead of the 2004 election cut the margin by 5.3%, but there followed a 0.8% swing against the statewide trend at that election, followed by a 8.8% swing when the Rudd government came to power. The backlash of 2010 produced a swing to the LNP of 6.3%, cutting the margin to 5.4%.

Rankin has had only two members since its creation: Craig Emerson since 1998, and David Beddall beforehand. Emerson emerged through the Labor Forum/Australian Workers Union sub-faction of the Queensland Right, working over the years as an adviser to Hawke government ministers and then to Hawke himself, before taking on senior state public service positions in Queensland under the Goss government. After one term in parliament he rose to the shadow ministry, serving in the workplace relations portfolio in the lead-up to the 2004 election. He was then contentiously dropped after losing the support of his faction, a legacy of his defiance of powerbroker Bill Ludwig in supporting Mark Latham’s successful leadership bid in December 2003 (which by no stretch of the imagination spared him the lash of The Latham Diaries).

Emerson’s career returned to the ascendant after Labor came to power in 2007. spent the first term in the junior small business portfolio and further acquired competition policy and consumer affairs in June 2009, before winning promotion to cabinet as Trade Minister after the 2010 election. On the morning of the July 2010 leadership coup he announced he would support Kevin Rudd if it came to a ballot, but he took a very different tack during Rudd’s February 2012 challenge, accusing him of having undermined the government ever since the election campaign. Emerson achieved, for better or worse, considerable penetration of the soft media in July 2012, with his semi-musical critique of the Coalition’s campaign against the carbon tax.

An LNP preselection in July 2012 attracted six candidates and was won by David Lin, a 39-year-old Taiwanese-born solicitor who founded the Sushi Station restaurant chain at the age of 22.

William Bowe — Editor of The Poll Bludger

William Bowe

Editor of The Poll Bludger

William Bowe is a Perth-based election analyst and occasional teacher of political science. His blog, The Poll Bludger, is one of the most heavily trafficked forums for online discussion of Australian politics, and joined the Crikey stable in 2008.

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1968 comments

1,968 thoughts on “Seat of the week: Rankin

  1. This little black duck

    Anyone else wonder why opinion polls just disappear?

  2. cud chewer

    TLBD, how do you mean?

  3. Scarpat

    Establishment journalists are creatures of a highly ideological world and often cause ideology to masquerade as neutral fact

    An article of interest to the Australian context substituting ‘Canberra Gallery culture’ for ‘DC culture’:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/oct/12/raddatz-debate-objectivity

  4. Norwester

    Latest effort from Paul Sheehan tops the news at SMH:

    http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/abbott-suffering-a-labor-party-stoning-20121014-27krw.html

    After reading about 50 or so of the comments I am wondering if we are witnessing the demise of the LOTO. How bad will the next few approval ratings have to be before he is tapped on the shoulder? And who will do it?

    Possible Libs will go for Hockey. Turnbull might be wise to see him and a few other pretenders try and fail before he has another crack at it later as an elder statesman a la Lazarus at a time that suits.

    The risk with Sheehan listing ‘nasty’ things that have been said about Abbott is as several of the comments mention, wtte that many people may well agree with a substantial number of them and indeed wish to add a few more. In that sense this article may prove to be an own goal.

  5. Norwester

    Tone and Indonesia:

    http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/abbott-would-consult-closely-with-indonesia-20121014-27kyn.html

    Article has an interesting list of things he’ll need to sort for any sort of relationship to function – if he somehow lands the gig.

  6. cud chewer

    A good fraction of those comments were directed at Sheehan.

    😀

  7. shellbell

    Sheehan is a hater par excellence. His greatest hate is lawyers just to show how far off the planet he is.

  8. lyne lady

    morning bludgers..
    this will be interesting…
    http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/abbott-would-consult-closely-with-indonesia-20121014-27kyn.html
    imo proof that abbott is stark raving mad!

  9. Scarpat

    The Canberra Gallery want context. Debra Jopson, recently lost by Fairfax, gives them context in spades in this article in the Guardian:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/theobserver/2012/oct/14/observer-profile-julia-gillard?commentpage=1#start-of-comments

  10. Meguire Bob

    It seems not even some in the media or news ltd , dont even believable the newspoll are correct, they have to continue to protect abbott because thats the media agenda

    some in the media are fearing the public are taking the pro coalition media for a ride.

    When its gets closer to the election watch the polling turn on abbot and the coalition

  11. Meguire Bob

    The public are waiting to give tony and newsltd and other pro coalition media a surprise by people giving them a labor majority governmet in 2013

    thats how some are feeling in the media

  12. Laocoon

    ABC News Radio editorial policy.

    6am news. Story on Abbott in Indonesia before Gillard in India. Makes sense. grrrrrrr

  13. BK

    Laocoon
    Did you see the footage of Abbott and Mesma sitting at the table in Indonesia on ABC24 this morning. With sleeved rolled up and sweaty brow he looked absolutely uncomfortable out of place.

  14. Laocoon

    Hey BK
    No I didnt…will have a look later.

    How unsurpisement – the global statesman himself!

  15. lyne lady

    chris murphy‏@chrismurphys

    Now India PM’speech has been hailed as a pivotal moment not only in Australian politics,but also globally’ #auspol http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/time-to-play-the-gendercard/article3997245.ece

  16. rosemour

    Glad to see someone else (BK) has recommended the Charles Waterstreet piece from yesterday’s SMH for which I posted an alert yesterday morning.

    Good the scrollers get a second bite.

  17. rosemour

    Have to say I’m surprised none yet has put this question to Monkey…or wtte:

    Mr Abbott: you said all the gvt had to do was reopen Nauru and the boats would stop. The Dept of Immigration said it would have no effect.
    Who was right?

  18. BK

    Worth as look. Ed Schulz shows how Biden cleaned up Ryan. And this is how Labor should take on Abbott in our debates.
    http://www.democraticunderground.com/101767110

  19. Space Kidette

    Julia on ABC24 live from Afghanistan.

  20. BK

    Julia looked very relaxed and comfortable in Afghanistan. Not wooden and looking for a stunt opportunity.

  21. BK

    I’ll say it again – watch Ed Schulz and put it into an Australian context.
    http://www.democraticunderground.com/101767110

  22. The Finnigans

    China haters & bashers, read Romney & Ryan, are wrong again. Latest data, GDP at 7.8%, export grew, buying iron again and announced stimulus

  23. BK

    And now for the flatlands. See y’all this evening.

  24. The Finnigans

    Abbott insulted Indonesia 3x over TURN the BOATs. Now he insulted the “wong cilik” (little poeple) putting his foot in https://pbs.twimg.com/media/A5EN4ZlCQAEHoNE.jpg

  25. rosemour

    Just watched the Ed Show video ont eh Biden/Ryan debate.
    It’s true…just imagine Abbott being taken apart on the spot everytime he opened his mouth. Potentially devestating.
    I mean really; last week when he said at some doorstop that he wants to get the economy growing again not one numbnut their had the guts to say Mr Abbott, the economy is in it’s 21st consecutive year of growth. What on earth are you talking about?
    Boy, I’d like to see that.

  26. victoria

    BK

    Enjoyed the segment on the Ed Schulz show. Thanks. Agree that the govt should take some notes on how Biden countered Ryan’s lies

  27. womble

    Morning All

    Seems the boats are back as an issue – 6 boats on the weekend, 4500 asylum seekers since off-shore “processing” started again. It’s working a treat – a billion plus dollars well spent (insert crazy face here). Of course the bigger issue is that the self harm, attempted suicides, have now started on Nauru. The government’s answer to the whole thing – freeze all claims – they really have no idea do they 🙁

    A lot of people use the line “I’m not a racist, I hate everyone equally” – maybe in Abbott’s case it’s – “I’m not a misogynist, I don’t respect anyone”. Pretty sure he had his feet on the table when both Windsor and Oakeshott went to visit him re forming government. Does the same thing overseas as well – only this time on the dinner table!!!

    https://twitter.com/TonyAbbottMHR/status/257002249992163328

    The poverty figures yesterday are terrible – of 20000 properties in Sydney and Melbourne, 40 can be afforded by those on benefits. 2 million living in poverty – i.e. under 50% of the median wage – it’s a disgrace for the 12th biggest economy in the world 🙁

    Looking forward to Essential today – will it keep moving the right direction???

  28. The Finnigans

    You want context – I also give you context – http://twitpic.com/b3vn02/full

  29. dave

    [ Rupert Murdoch calls phone-hacking campaigners ‘scumbag celebrities’

    News Corp chief causes outrage on Twitter with caustic dismissal of victims who lobbied David Cameron last week

    Rupert Murdoch has labelled victims of phone hacking “scumbag celebrities” after they met David Cameron during the Conservative party conference.

    On Saturday night Murdoch took to Twitter to criticise the talks in Birmingham between the prime minister and members of the Hacked Off campaign, singer Charlotte Church, former Crimewatch presenter Jacqui Hames and actor Hugh Grant.

    Murdoch tweeted: “Told UK’s Cameron receiving scumbag celebrities pushing for even more privacy laws. Trust the toffs! Transparency under attack. Bad.”

    The comments sparked a storm of disapproval, with Murdoch repeatedly asked to apologise for the remarks and remove the tweets.]

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2012/oct/14/rupert-murdoch-phone-hacking-scumbags

  30. The Finnigans

    My salute to a great and brave Australian Felix Baumgartner 👿 😆 😉

  31. Space Kidette

    [Jonathan Green ‏@GreenJ

    Remind me of that ‘context’ thing next time i see blank, unquestioning reporting of debt, or power pricing etc etc ]

  32. Bushfire Bill

    Mandy Vanstone thinks that calling Abbott out for his trash talking of the economy and governance is simply mean.

    [My opinion is that riling up people to despise, demean or hate others is a bad thing whoever does it. History tells us that people in packs or mobs tend to descend more rapidly to their baser instincts. Jones is rightly criticised for appealing to the mob mentality, and I think there is a serious risk that social networks are being used to do the same thing back. Neither is attractive.

    In a quite different way, Julia Gillard has also, for a long time, been doing one thing and expecting a different standard from others. Is there a day that goes by when she fails to accuse Tony Abbott of being negative? She is allowed to be relentlessly negative about him, but we are not to see her as being negative. It is an old ruse.

    Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/politics/the-pm-the-shock-jock-sexism-and-a-whole-lot-of-hypocrisy-20121014-27kv5.html#ixzz29JJWbYLb ]

    I see.

    Wyalla off the map, “toxic tax”, governments dying of shame, cobra strikes, python squeezes, octopus whatsernames, “bad government”, ditching of witches and bitches and so on… are now off limits according to Vanstone.

    Julia is so cruel to Tony. He, apparently, can’t help himself, just like Gillard can’t help being a woman (they don’t have natural leadership and decision-making skills, you know).

    Tony is the victim here. I hadn’t seen that before, but I do now. Poor bloke. I don’t how how he can bear to get out of bed with all this unfairness and nastiness about.

    No wonder they call Gillard a bitch.

  33. victoria

    A picture says a thousand words. Also says that our msm are pathetic

    http://twitter.yfrog.com/odk1czfj

  34. victoria

    SO YOU WANT CONTEXT

    [So the media wants a context. How about contexts – plural? There is never a single context in politics. It is always a complex recipe of sub-texts and alternative agendas which are the contexts. I can walk, talk and chew gum simultaneously. It would appear that the mainstream media can’t or won’t.]

    http://boeufblogginon.wordpress.com/2012/10/14/so-you-want-context-well-ill-give-you-contexts-pfft/

  35. Bushfire Bill

    Whats wrong with Geneva? SBYlives there doesn’t he? Or is that the United Nations?

    I get confused sometimes…

    [The challenge is to see things more from Indonesia’s perspective and less from our own. When I say that Australia’s foreign policy should have a Jakarta rather than a Geneva focus, I don’t mean that we should stop lecturing countries in Europe and the Middle East only to start lecturing countries in our region.

    https://www.google.com.au/search?q=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.theaustralian.com.au%2Fnational-affairs%2Fopinion%2Fcoalition-keen-to-enhance-australias-relationship-with-indonesia%2Fstory-e6frgd0x-1226495700409&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a ]

    At least it’s a good start. We’re going to see things from Indonesia’s perspective from now on, not just our own. If Indonesia doesn’t want boats, then neither should we.

  36. shellbell

    I hope Felix Baumgartner can tell us the sort of things going through his mind as he was freefalling at 1100km/h

  37. Bushfire Bill

    [I hope Felix Baumgartner can tell us the sort of things going through his mind as he was freefalling at 1100km/h]

    Luckily for him it was not a fly he bumped into at that speed.

  38. Boerwar

    One of the nice things about all the research into climate/weather is that we get to learn all about previously undiscovered effects: in this case, ‘sting jets’. These are discussed in the second article in this link.

    The first article is the Met response to a misleading AGW article by Mr Rose of the Daily Mail (subsequently used uncritically, suprise, suprise, by Mr Watts of WUWT fame).

    http://metofficenews.wordpress.com/

  39. Space Kidette

    [timdunlop ‏@timdunlop

    Remember all those articles about the context of Abbott’s lies about carbon pricing? ]

  40. Boerwar

    How did he get up 1100km/H? Terminal velocity for humans is generally around about a fifth of that:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminal_velocity

    Maybe because there is hardly any atmosphere at his starting point?

  41. The Finnigans

    Your old media is Rapidly agin’ Please get out of the new one If you can’t lend your hand – hmmm, that sounds very familiar

  42. confessions

    Morning all.

    The press gallery and OM more generally are sounding very shrill.

    [Malcolm Farr ‏@farrm51
    “@murpharoo reveals group-think meetings held in the Press Gallery. (Joke Joyce). http://www.nationaltimes.com.au/opinion/politics/life-moments-in-the-kitchen-of-great-house-20121014-27kv4.html … ]

  43. victoria

    confessions

    What is Katharine Murphy really trying to tell her readers?

  44. confessions

    victoria:

    She’s trying to say that it’s those who eschew the OM in favour of getting their news when and where they want it who are the ones indulging in groupthink.

    In other words, she seems to be having a dummy spit.

  45. confessions

    I just saw a CFMEU ad for spreading the benefits of the mining boom.

    I thought people already broadly supported the mining tax?

  46. Sohar

    Amanda Vanstone’s, “Is there a day that goes by when she [Gillard] fails to accuse Tony Abbott of being negative?” could best be answered with “Is there a day when Tony Abbott isn’t negative?”.

  47. lizzie

    Has anyone counted the number of subjects on which Tony Abbott is an ignorant fool?
    [sortius ‏@sortius
    Abbott on logging in old-growth forests: “they come back quite quickly” #facepalm #auspol]

  48. triton

    Morning. I’m looking forward to hearing later what subjects Tony brought up with SBY. He has to bring up turning back boats and he has to say so. Leaders can say at least what they talked about.

    Speech views now over 1.5 million.

  49. victoria

    confessions

    Dummy spit indeed!

  50. rosemour

    This from Jessica Irvine in The Punch, of all places..
    ‘In an extraordinary 15 minute speech last Tuesday, Australia’s first female Prime Minister gave voice to the silent rage of generations of Australian women’

  51. confessions

    lizzie:

    There is someone on twitter keeping track:

    https://twitter.com/WisdomOfAbbott

  52. lizzie

    I read Katharine Murphy as saying that the Canberra Gang are not all middle-aged white men, and all who write op-eds are not based in Canberra.

    She’s right, but there is also the shadow of News Ltd lying across all the printed media, which blurs these little differences.

  53. C@tmomma

    Good Morning Bludgerville! 🙂

    So, today will be a day of parsing his words carefully for Tony Abbott and attempting to draw a veil over what is said between him and the President of Indonesia such that he hopes he doesn’t get a nasty ‘surprise’ himself wrt the leaking of the content of his conversation with SBY today, as happened the last time they met in Darwin.

    As I said, careful parsing of words. For it seems that we now have before us a bit of a crabwalk in Indonesia, which has replaced the perennial swaggering jock walk, when he is in Australia.

    For example, what does this mean?

    Australia needed to be ”less conscious of the impact of our decision-making on tomorrow’s domestic headlines, and more conscious of our impact of our decision-making on sentiment here in Jakarta,” he said.

    Is he saying that he realises that sentiment in Indonesia is negative towards his ‘Tow Back the Boats’ position, and, down the line, should Australia be unlucky enough to get him as Prime Minister, he will eventually bow to ‘sentiment in Indonesia’ and redefine and tailor his decision-making to their requests for a change in his policy?

    It could be read that way, the statement is so opaque.

    Or, is he making an aggressive statement towards Indonesia that he is ‘Not for turning’ on his ‘Turn Back the Boats’ policy fully conscious of the effect it will have on ‘sentiment in Indonesia’ but he knows that he is carrying the big stick of Aid to Indonesia in his backpack and he’s not afraid to use it to achieve his long term goals, despite acknowledging what sentiment may be in Indonesia.

    He never said he wanted a positive impact on sentiment in Jakarta as a result of his decision-making. He just said he would be fully conscious of the impact his decision-making would have and would not care about daily headlines.

    Now, he has also carefully stated today:

    TONY Abbott has said that, if he becomes prime minister, he would run important policies past the government of Indonesia before announcing them, as part of his ”no surprises” policy.

    Note it doesn’t say that he will take any notice of Indonesian reaction to his policies? Merely that he will deign to ‘run important policies past the government of Indonesia before announcing them’.

    Take note especially that he will still announce the policies, as he intended BEFORE ‘running them past the Indonesian government’. He says absolutely nothing about changing them in any way once run past the Indonesians.

    Such a kind and benevolent Colonial Master of the mendicant ‘Brown Muslim People to our North’ is the attitudinal bias that I pick up from his statements and his actions. Such as the one in the photo circulated yesterday of him arrogantly and/or ignorantly putting his foot up on to the table of the children. Whilst smiling facetiously(?) as he does it.
    (Interesting to note the horrified looks on the faces of the women as he does it).

    Then, Quizzed about the tow back the boats policy, decried in Indonesia as impossible, dangerous and a threat to its sovereignty, Mr Abbott said the discussions would remain behind closed doors.

    According to Mr Abbott: ”We will stop the boats, but we’ll do it by working in the closest possible harmony with Indonesia”.

    Apparently, by going in hard ‘behind closed doors’ like Alexander Downer was reputed to do and wielding his big financial stick. Also, that he will work with the Indonesians in the closest possible harmony.
    I guess that statement covers even 1% ‘harmony’.

    However, in the current context of Indonesia’s emergence as one of the new Tiger economies of Asia, I am not so sure that Tony Abbott can get away with it as easily as Howard and Downer used to be able to.

    Yes, Indonesia still has a relatively low standard of living for it’s citizens, but it has ambitious plans, as Trade Minister Craig Emerson pointed out today, about raising the amount of meat eaten by it’s citizens 10-fold. and Australia, as Tony Abbott has also pointed out, continues to want a large slice of that action.

    So I’m thinking that financial threats might be a two-edged sword for Mr Abbott. He wouldn’t like to be the Prime Minister that oversaw the collapse of the Live Cattle Trade between the 2 countries, now would he? And we all know that the whip hand is firmly with the Indonesians on that front. As I frankly don’t think John Cobb has the wherewithall to deal with that sort of crisis, and we all know that Mr Abbott himself is not too good when his plans don’t go to script.

    Mr Abbott may well be ‘Not for Turning’ on his ‘Turn Back the Boats’ policy. However, the Indonesians are ‘Not for Intimidating’.

    So, in the end, after Tough Guy Tony has tailored his policy ‘for domestic consumption’, in the run-up to the election, will he actually stick with it when push comes to shove, after the election?

    I don’t think so. 🙂

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/abbott-would-consult-closely-with-indonesia-20121014-27kyn.html#ixzz29JRJhixi

  54. dave

    triton@1720


    Morning. I’m looking forward to hearing later what subjects Tony brought up with SBY. He has to bring up turning back boats and he has to say so.

    Do they risk a presser saying they have SBY/ Marty etc onside and that Labor are hopeless?

    Or do they verbal the Indonesian position in other ways?

    If so what do the Indonesians do about it, slap abbott down publically and issue their own warnings to him?

    More likely/ hopefully the Indonesians will say privately but firmly if you try turning the boats around you will be buying into big trouble and think seriously about the consequences before to try it on.

    Its not just the Indonesian Government they have to worry about – the Indons have some feisty parliamentarians as well.

    If they haven’t got a major breakthrough then it becomes a flop given abbott continual saying he “Will turn the boats around”.

    I’m sure OM will find the right context and nuance so that he comes out of it all as a hero….

  55. confessions

    [Bernard Keane Bernard Keane ‏@BernardKeane
    And at The Oz: old white right-wing male declares “old white right-wing males got it right”. ]

    Too funny. Is totally the OO to a tee!

  56. shellbell

    A bit of advice given to Felix before his jump by the previous recordholder:

    [“… stand up on the exterior step but be sure to duck your head down low as you go out that door,” Mr. Kittinger said]

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/15/us/felix-baumgartner-skydiving.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

  57. C@tmomma

    How long before Richard Branson starts offering ‘Virgin Skydives’? 😀

  58. Leroy

    No ifs or buts, you have to read all of this. Free article

    http://www.afr.com/p/national/jones_has_fewer_options_in_shock_F2cytT80OO0kqo5E3sNg3O
    [Jones has fewer options in shock-jock economy
    PUBLISHED: 8 HOURS 48 MINUTES AGO | UPDATE: 2 HOURS 13 MINUTES AGO

    NEIL CHENOWETH
    The internet had lit up with outrage and the Twitter feed was going off the dial as Alan Jones finished his shift, but he wasn’t worried. Shock jocks are made of sterner stuff. And he had more pressing issues on his mind.

    …………

    But there is a bigger story behind this saga, that begins with the growth in ratings that 2GB’s shock jock line-up has achieved — and how hugely profitable their opposition to the Labor government has been.

    PROFITING FROM POLITICS
    Fighting the carbon tax is a business – it’s arguably the most successful business in Australian media right now. Alan Jones has earned a fortune for his employer from his determined campaigning against the tax.

    The rise of the shock-jock economy is one of the biggest, unremarked media stories of the past three years.]

  59. OzPol Tragic

    Good morning, Bludgers.

    David Rowe with a repulsive Abbott upskirt!!
    http://www.afr.com/rw/2009-2014/AFR/2012/10/14/Photos/4deeb5f4-15e8-11e2-ab2a-17a3c0949540_gallery15oct12–736×505.jpg

    Poor Widdle Tony Abbott; so victimised by those nasty Labor feminists! First he has to hid from them behind the wife & daughters’ skirts as they defend him from the results of his so-called 1950s’ he-man victimisation of PM Julia Gillard (er … how many of his vicious, lying SSSO rants has PM JG earned from him so far?).

    Then, when Poor Tony tried to call her out on HER sexism & misogyny – yes, Virginia, I know his Opposition defenders & the Canberra Press Gallery’s Angry Old Men have suffered bad “Senior Moments” and completely forgotten He Who Must Be Shielded From All Those Superordinate Labor Women (aka Tony Abbott) actually started it by ranting against her, hurling the exact words, “Sexism” and “Misogyny”, before she stood up to reply, confident in her ignoring his provocation as usual – That Dreadful Woman totally forgot her “weaker sex” place and turned his own words back on Poor Widdle Tony.

    Would you believe it! A mere woman, put in her place when a MAN called out her sexism and misogyny, had the HIDE to accuse HIM of the same behaviour; deriding him during the ABC’s Live Telecast to the Nation! Oh, the humanity! The humanity!

    How could anyone – yet alone a woman – be such a vicious, sexist bully, just after Tony’s wife & daughters openly had to defend his sensitivity, his lack of sexism, his “feminine side”?

    As Coalition and Press Gallery gathered to call out Nasty Sexist Gillard’s bullying of Poor Widdle Tony, things were getting worse. The ABC uploaded the full video. How DARE they! Some lowlife then copied Gillard’s demolition of Tony and sent it to blogs in the USA! So before the first Press Gallery defence of Tony appeared in print, some horrid feminist Yank blog posted it online. Before the evening news, it was being lauded in England as well.

    Then That Woman’s bullying of Poor Widdle Tony went viral across the globe, and article after article – even in Le Monde, would you believe! – spreading the bullying globally. Poor Widdle Tony Abbott was being publicly emasculated in every part of the Globe by That Awful, Aggressive Woman Who Stole Tony’s Prime Ministership! Add up the number of hits from every separate uploading of That Vicious Woman’s “rant” since Tuesday, and – what horror, what degradation of Poor Widdle Tony – the total is over 2,000,000 – most of it on that Pinko, Stalinist ABC’s upload!

    When a woman steals what is rightfully a man’s Office, there is no fairness in Australian Politics, is there! Tony the MAN had The RIGHT to call out the PM on “sexism” and “mysogyny”; but she, the WOMAN, had NO RIGHT to call him by those same words!

    Now Rowe’s has adding to it in his portrayal of the result of Liberal-Press Gallery’s attempts to recast Abbott as a victim of women’s sexism (Thanks, BK, for the inspiration!)

    I see Bleak (online Oz front page) has joined the Opposition and Press Gallery and taken the opposite stance. In a Murdoch paper. ‘OOd ‘ave ever thunk it!

  60. lizzie

    [Eric Campbell ‏@ericcampbellfcp
    The News Ltd fight-back has begun. To prevent any sideways attacks on my program, I am ceasing to tweet. My decision entirely. It’s been fun]
    According to another tweet, Bolt is the cause of Eric Campbell shutting down. Anyone know more?

  61. victoria

    Leroy

    Appreciate you linking the article. Very interesting indeed

  62. victoria

    Four Corners tonight subject matter is Lance Armstrong

  63. smssiva

    The guardian is taking the sexism issue seriously. It is worth a read.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2012/oct/14/sexist-stereotypes-front-pages-newspapers

  64. Fran Barlow

    It seems that the result in the US Presidential contest is becoming harder to pick.

    In early October, with the conventions over, Obama ahead everywhere and particularly after the “47%” controversy, it was hard to see romney climbing back into this contest.

    I continue to believe that Obama will get there in the end, but there’s no denying that Romney is back in the game, which was almost unthinkable 2 weeks ago. Oddly, the Democrats seem to be doing better in the congressional races and the Repugs chances of achieving control of the senat have nosedived, so at the moment there is a possibility of starting 2013 with colours reversed from 2009 — a Republican President with a hostile congress.

    I should say that I’m glad I’m not an American. I don’t have to make a choice. Cosicdering purely the things in which a President has some power, it is very clear that Romney Ryan are likely to use cultural issues (abortion, DOMA, stacking SCOTUS) to keep their rightwing base while cutting a deal on the “fiscal cliff”, the bush tax cuts, ACA and the other promises. I obviously couldn’t vote for them.

    OTOH could I vote for torturing Bradley Manning, chasing Assange as an enemy of the US, backing Israel, drone strikes in Pakistan, doing next to nothing on climate change, off-shore drilling, shale oil etc? Of course not. Perhaps I’d have to do the write-in option and self-nominate. The Green candidate is about as “left” as Malcolm Turnbull. Roseanne Barr — running as a “socialist” would be a bit of a laugh I suppose.

    So I’m neutral. It’s tempting to take the view that America’s polity is simply broken. There is no widely supported candidate standing up even for the working people of the United States, leave aside humanity and equity as a whole. Telling people this simple truth seems not to work and it seem that there’s a chance that a presidential team that lies openly in public bevfore the election will be elected. That’s astonishingly poor. There must be a very great number of boneheadedly disengaged voters in the country. Even if you are a conservative, how could you vote for Romney-Ryan? It seems bizarre.

    In those circumstances, it may well be that for the country as a whole, ending the Obama regime might at least be educational. Maybe they need to be confronted with what lies behind the choice they have made. The Obama team failed to hold the Repugs to account after September 15 2008, and maybe that is the price they have to pay for that failure. I don’t wish ill-times on anyone, but if that is their choice, and they refuse to listen to all appeals to reason, then what can one do?

    Obama will need to come out swinging on Tuesday if he is to finally ensure his re-election. I couldn’t imagine that he’d have done anything else in the first debate, but yet he did. It’s not the Australian way which is never to give a sucker an even break, but there you have it.

    As these lines are being written, it seems that Americans may well vote to shoot themselves repeatedly in the foot and other body parts and hurt the world at the same time. How weird.

  65. Boerwar

    C@tmomma

    [For example, what does this mean?

    Australia needed to be ”less conscious of the impact of our decision-making on tomorrow’s domestic headlines, and more conscious of our impact of our decision-making on sentiment here in Jakarta,” he said.]

    I hope that it means that he is learning from his many egregious mistakes in relation to Indonesia. Inter alia, I hope that it means that he has finally realised that an intra-Coalition Party proposal to cut our single most effective piece of foreign aid: support for Indonesian primary schooling, was utter stupidity.

    I hope that it means that he understands that ‘sentiment’ in Indonesia matters to the Australian national interest.

    I hope that it means that his racist habit of dissing third world countries and non-anglos is self-defeating for Australia’s national interest.

    I hope that it means that he understands that, when he stands by the likes of the muslim-baiting Mr Jones, Mr Abbott ‘gets it’ that muslims in places like Indonesia develop a ‘sentiment’ about it.

    I hope he understands that if the Indonesians do not want boats sent to them by Australian that they will not take them.

    The ‘no suprises’ policy is SOP, diplomatically. It is good to see Mr Abbott committing to it in government. Perhaps he has learned from his failures to follow this policy as LOTO.

    As for learning, the foot on the table incident is about what you would expect from Mr Abbott: Not a cultural clue; no international class: the walking embodiment of a reckless danger to our national interest.

  66. OzPol Tragic

    Oh, dear #1732. Sorry for all the bolding.

  67. guytaur

    “@Kate_McClymont: I have never seen anything like it. There must by 80 lawyers here for the ICAC’s directions hearing for upcoming Obeid/Macca/Roozendaal case”

  68. lizzie

    smssiva

    I suppose we should be relieved that Oz is not the only male-dominated country. :sigh:
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2012/oct/14/sexist-stereotypes-front-pages-newspapers

  69. leone

    [Four Corners tonight subject matter is Lance Armstrong]
    Yawn!

  70. guytaur

    @ConversationEDU: Is the myth of merit preventing us from addressing gender inequality? @jcu on Gillard, Abbott & the #genderwars http://t.co/5Xeo54ll

  71. lizzie

    Thinking of all the Coalition women leaping to Abbott’s defence, I am trying to think of the word that represents women who have adopted male-dominant attitudes. Someone here used it recently and I can’t remember.

    Because those such as Vanstone have succeeded in a “male” structure, they then see females who don’t make it as failures, and use all the same adjectives as sexist male do. Can anyone help?

  72. guytaur

    @guardiannews: Guardian front page, Monday 15 October 2012: Decriminalise drug use, say experts after six-year study http://t.co/yTGvf0N3

    Now watch the politicians run a mile from sense.

  73. mari

    My friend in US who asked for the Julia Gillard speech you tube she had heard about, came back and said “wow she is dynamic” wouldn’t mind her as our leader, my friends also enjoyed it. They were on a weekend away, the power of the Internet?

  74. Burgey

    I will have a hearty guffaw if SBY emerges from his meeting with Abbott, Bishop and Morrison to announce under no circumstnaces will Indonesia accept boats being towed back.

  75. Sohar

    It is reassuring to note that, along with Martin Flanagan, there are still a couple of decent human beings working at the Age, as the sports writer Greg Baum demonstrates.

    http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/politics/now-listen-here-luv–when-words-become-weapons-20121014-27kv3.html

  76. mari

    http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/pm-makes-surprise-visit-to-troops-20121015-27ljd.html
    Amazingly this is from Michelle Grattan travelling with the PM, have a look at the photos they are really good

  77. victoria

    Sohar

    Greg Baum gets it.

  78. triton

    And both write primarily about sport, Sohar.

  79. Puff, the Magic Dragon.

    Leroy@1731


    No ifs or buts, you have to read all of this. Free article

    http://www.afr.com/p/national/jones_has_fewer_options_in_shock_F2cytT80OO0kqo5E3sNg3O


    Jones has fewer options in shock-jock economy
    PUBLISHED: 8 HOURS 48 MINUTES AGO | UPDATE: 2 HOURS 13 MINUTES AGO

    NEIL CHENOWETH
    The internet had lit up with outrage and the Twitter feed was going off the dial as Alan Jones finished his shift, but he wasn’t worried. Shock jocks are made of sterner stuff. And he had more pressing issues on his mind.

    …………

    But there is a bigger story behind this saga, that begins with the growth in ratings that 2GB’s shock jock line-up has achieved — and how hugely profitable their opposition to the Labor government has been.

    PROFITING FROM POLITICS
    Fighting the carbon tax is a business – it’s arguably the most successful business in Australian media right now. Alan Jones has earned a fortune for his employer from his determined campaigning against the tax.

    The rise of the shock-jock economy is one of the biggest, unremarked media stories of the past three years.

    I read the full article.
    So for Jones it really is all about the money?

  80. Space Kidette

    [Destroying the Joint ‏@SpaceKidette

    F@!king Brilliant! RT DEAR MR. SEXIST: A Thank You Letter from Tracey Spicer http://shar.es/5SUlr via @sharethis #auspol ]

  81. ShiftyPhil

    http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2012/10/13/seat-of-the-week-rankin/?comment_page=35/#comment-1441760
    [How did he get up 1100km/H? Terminal velocity for humans is generally around about a fifth of that:

    Maybe because there is hardly any atmosphere at his starting point?]

    Yes, atmosphere very thin up at the height he was jumping from.

  82. lizzie

    Sohar

    Brought tears to my eyes to read it.
    So sports writers are out of the Canberra loop and are allowed to think for themselves. 😀

  83. OzPol Tragic

    [Thinking of all the Coalition women leaping to Abbott’s defence, I am trying to think of the word that represents women who have adopted male-dominant attitudes]

    In the Coalition, given Julia Bishop’s ambition and that of more than a few Liberal MPs (past as well as present, inc BBishop’s & Amanda Vanstone’s), I’d suggest rank hypocrisy. Remember Vanstone’s comment when Howard side-lined her: wtte Howard doesn’t take kindly to views other than his own?

    I guess from Howard’s “love child”, Abbott, it’s subservience to LNP male domination, or another career.

  84. guytaur

    “@watermelon_man: Have I understood – anything said by
    Labor you “need to know the context”. Liberal statements are guaranteed context-free @lenoretaylor?”

    “@lenoretaylor: @watermelon_man no you have completely misunderstood”

    “@guytaur: @lenoretaylor @watermelon_man Explain context of Gillard promising a Carbon Price and media running Abbott lie theme unchallenged.”

  85. guytaur

    “@watermelon_man: Have I understood – anything said by
    Labor you “need to know the context”. Liberal statements are guaranteed context-free @lenoretaylor?”

    “@lenoretaylor: @watermelon_man no you have completely misunderstood”

    “@guytaur: @lenoretaylor @watermelon_man Explain context of Gillard promising a Carbon Price and media running Abbott lie theme unchallenged.”

  86. Sohar

    Victoria, Yes, he does get it. I would never have expected something like that from Greg Baum. He always sounds so flat and unengaged when talking about the football on the radio.

  87. C@tmomma

    Some simple logistical questions for Mr Abbott:

    HOW will he get the Australian Navy to turn around the Indonesian Fishing Boats carrying the tens of thousands of Hazara Afghanis that just today have stated that nothing will deter them from getting on the boats to attempt to get to Australia? Especially as they openly state that, when the NATO + friends’ troops leave in 2014 they will again become the persecuted targets of the Pashtun Taliban. They have baldly stated, as expected, that even an extended stay on Nauru or Manus Island, is preferable to hanging around for their inevitable persecution. Same goes for the Iranians, for so long as the Mullahs are in power there.

    HOW will Mr Abbott connive to get the Indonesians to take this wave upon wave of people back, when they are a far poorer nation than we are?

    HOW does Mr Abbott propose to police all the bays around the almost infinite coastline that is the nation of Indonesia?

    HOW does Mr Abbott propose to counter the bribes paid to local officials by People Traffickers who get $1 to 2 Million per boat load of Asylum Seekers?

    HOW does Mr Abbott propose that Temporary Protection Visas will work in practice, when all the Hazaras and Iranians will have to do, in order to stay in Australia, is point to the continued persecution of their people in the countries which they came from?

    WHEN are we going to get a journalist, dismissive enough of their chances of future employment with Rupert Murdoch, that will ask Mr Abbott these questions? To place his feel good bravura in ‘context’, to use the word of the week, pin him down and get some straight answers out of him?

    All else is just political piffle from their pens.

    By the way, I am still a firm believer in the Bali Process and the Malaysian Arrangement as the only way to stem the tide of asylum seekers attempting to get to Australia via the People Traffickers. It’s the only way that they end up going around in a circle and getting nowhere for their trouble and money. So as to extend the Australian hand of protection fairly and equally.

  88. victoria

    SK

    Tracy Spicer gets it!

  89. Space Kidette

    lizzie,

    The amazing thing about that piece is that I am sure that every woman that read it has a similar story. And that is without exaggeration. Just plain acceptance this is a woman’s lot in the corporate world.

  90. victoria

    The questions now for Abbott, are, will he again ever use the phrase “govt dying of shame”? Will Margie come out again in defence of him, in light of the PM’s response to him?

  91. guytaur

    When Lib supporters come up with the lie theme over the carbon debate here is what I respond with.

    Yes the PM broke the carbon tax promise. This was so she could keep the greater promise of bringing in a carbon price. Breaking a lesser promise to keep a greater promise is good, not bad.

  92. mari

    Sohar I sent a letter to Greg’s wonderful article in the Age,
    We published your comment:
    Thank you so much Greg, another one who is seeing the light, like so many of us. Perhaps Fairfax you might give Greg a gig at political writer, and give most of the present political writers time off to think about their buzz word “context” while he writes the truth

    As you can see it was published

  93. guytaur

    “@lyndalcurtis: Parliamentary Budget Office up now at #estimates”

  94. Puff, the Magic Dragon.

    Lizzie
    The term is ‘male-identified women’ and relates to women who defend the status quo of male superiority and patriarchal attitudes, particularly if they benefit from it.

  95. Burgey

    Tracey Spicer is a gun. Love her work.

  96. lizzie

    Puff

    Ah, thank you. Yessss!!!

  97. leone

    SK
    Thanks for that link. I certainly have similar stories to tell. I was a bit stunned by the first comment – from someone called ‘Layla’, who says
    [I like this reply, but jeez it’s hard to accept that this actually went on!..]
    WENT on! It happens every day, to thousands of Australian women.

  98. leone

    Sohar
    A wonderful article. Thank you for the link.

  99. mari

    That article of Michelle’s Grattan I linked earlier re the PM in Afghanistan. I was corrected correctly on Twitter, pointed out to me that even when writing a”positive” story about the PM MG can’t help herself there was one PM and seven Ms Gillard references to the PM. They are right and silly me though she could be “mellowing”???

  100. guytaur

    http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/greens-leader-christine-milne-says-julia-gillard-is-a-sexism-hypocrite/story-e6freuy9-1226495747948

    I did not see the interview. So I bet Senator Milne is quoted out of context so Limited News can make their context appear credible

  101. guytaur

    “@chrismurphys: As heads turn towards Julia Gillard desperate NewsLtd regime changers scream ‘Come Back!’.Relentlessly bash this marvellous PM. #auspol”

  102. guytaur

    “@chrismurphys: As heads turn towards Julia Gillard desperate NewsLtd regime changers scream ‘Come Back!’.Relentlessly bash this marvellous PM. #auspol”

  103. Von Kirsdarke

    Yeah, the federal Liberal Candidate for Ballarat (the manager of Ballarat’s main radio stations) is clearly wielding his influence over them.

    The two coalition stooges on the morning talk program are saying that Julia Gillard’s speech is defamatory to Tony Abbott, and how dare she call him a misogynist when he lives with women.

    That’s a bit of reading between the lines there. And that they’re defending him must mean they agree with his views on women.

  104. poroti

    lizzie

    Remember Babette Francis’ “Women Who Want to be Women” ? Now there was a sad lot.

  105. rosemour

    I’ve long thought calling the Prime minister a liar (outside parliament) is defamatory.

  106. guytaur

    “@latikambourke: Professor Ross Garnaut says the Carbon price has been introduced very smoothly and more more so than changes of this kind – eg the GST.”

  107. guytaur

    “@joeobrien24: Expecting Bill Shorten media conf 1215 .. Govt response to review of Fair Work Act

  108. poroti

    Well done Qld Labor. They produce this

    [But the Labor legacy also included a sophisticated water grid and dams with enough water in them for at least 10 years of supply at current low rates of usage.]

    So what does CanJoh do ?

    [Newman Government turns taps back on to raise cash.

    RESIDENTS of the southeast will be encouraged to dump their drought mentality as the Government looks to boost revenue from its plentiful water supplies to pay down debt. ]

    http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/newman-government-turns-taps-back-on-to-raise-cash/story-e6freoof-1226495751510

  109. leone

    [The two coalition stooges on the morning talk program are saying that Julia Gillard’s speech is defamatory to Tony Abbott, and how dare she call him a misogynist when he lives with women.]
    Of course he lives with women. He can’t possibly be expected to iron his own shirts, do his own washing and cook his own meals, now can he.

    This reminds me of a man I once knew who also lived with women – a wife and two daughters. He had never had to do one thing for himself, ever. First his mum and then his wife had looked after every tiny thing, his wife even laid out his clothes for him every morning. The marriage broke up and this spoilt adult child moved into his own flat. He told me, in all seriousness, that he was going to advertise for a female flat mate because he needed someone to do the housework. I’m sure Tony would understand that need.

  110. poroti

    CanJoh promised 4.0% unemployment rates in Qld. We have seen wrong way Newman manage to see a 5% go to 6%. With most of the PS job losses yet to kick in and now this will he manage 8% by Xmas ?

    [
    A survey of Queensland’s coal companies shows they all expect to cut costs, including shedding staff, to cope with a hike in mining royalties.

    The survey of 37 CEOs, conducted by the Queensland Resources Council (QRC), shows cost-cutting measures would include reducing employee and contractor numbers, slashing rail and port costs and cuts to exploration expenditure.

    Ten of those surveyed also said they risked premature closure of existing operations because of the hike.
    ]
    http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/royalties-to-cause-queensland-mine-cuts-survey-20121014-27kmo.html#ixzz29K17tjAp

  111. mari

    Eric Campbell ‏@ericcampbellfcp
    The News Ltd fight-back has begun. To prevent any sideways attacks on my program, I am ceasing to tweet. My decision entirely. It’s been fun

    How much pressure was put on this brave man from higher up in ABC?

  112. mari

    leone
    Only housework required?? Methinks unless he was pushing 80 didn’t tell you everything

  113. rosemour

    Nice bit of sacasm leveled at Vanstone….

    ‘accuses Abbott of negativity’?
    Oh dear Amanda.
    You mean like accusing a dolphin of living in water??

    Abbott IS negative. Constantly
    It’s the one political strategy he has.

    Really sometimes I think women just aren’t intellectually as capable as men are of
    sensible political commentary.

  114. guytaur

    rosemour

    Stupid political commentary is an equal opportunity defect.

  115. leone

    mari
    I think he would have had to run home to ask the ex for permission. He found a male flatmate, equally as useless. They never did find a female to move in. I wonder why?

  116. rosemour

    as you demonstrate with demonstrable ease Gaytaur.

  117. leone

    ‘Women Who Want to be Women’ – I’d forgotten about that lot.
    Babette Francis now runs the latest incarnation of WWWW, Endeavour Forum.
    http://www.endeavourforum.org.au/index.html
    You’ll need to tale some sort of calmative substance before venturing in there.

  118. guytaur

    rosemour

    Read your last sentence again. You generalised. I pointed that out

  119. rosemour

    okay so I’ll reset my hairtrigger…

    I’m so used to be slagged off here…..

  120. mari

    leone
    Posted Monday, October 15, 2012 at 11:19 am | PERMALINK
    mari
    I think he would have had to run home to ask the ex for permission. He found a male flatmate, equally as useless. They never did find a female to move in. I wonder why?

    Don’t think we as women would need to wonder too much?

  121. Von Kirsdarke

    And a chat to a work colleague tells me that his wife used to work for that radio company. And she left in horror at the institutionalised sexism of the place.

    Apparently the former general manager allegedly pushed a female staff member against the wall with his hand around her throat. He left a while ago though. I don’t know if any charges were laid (presumably so, he has since left town).

    I just don’t understand how some men could do things like this to women. I respect women greatly and would never do any of the things I hear these chauvinist pigs do. Maybe it’s because I’ve been around a lot of strong women when I was growing up, I don’t know (family, teachers, friends, etc).

  122. mari

    Von Kirsdarke1795

    Thank you I feel much better after reading what you have said

  123. BH

    BK – thanks for the Ed Show link. Why did I find this statement so pertinent

    [Right wingers don’t like it when they’re not allowed to lie all day with consequence]

    Familiar, isn’t it?

  124. poroti

    A view from over the Tasman from a kiwi woman pollie on PMJG’s speech.

    [I cheered as I watched her speak, and I suspect many women politicians would have done the same.

    It seemed to be a rebuke for all the indignities women parliamentarians have suffered over the years – and the appalling treatment so many women in public life have had to endure.

    It was certainly the reality for our former Prime Minister, Helen Clark, who had to put up with continuous snide comments about her childlessness and questions about her sexuality.

    It was the reality too, for former Labour MP Sonja Davies.

    On her first day in the House, John Banks (then in Opposition,) called out “here comes Granny!” And he continued to yell this out whenever she spoke in the House or met him in Parliament.

    Journalist Barry Soper used to continuously refer to me as “Parliament’s babe”……
    Interestingly, Sonja Davies finally put a stop to the abuse she had to endure in Parliament when she stood up and demanded an end to it one day. When the then Leader of the House, Paul East, yelled out “here’s Auntie”, Sonja said the fire entered her soul.

    She leapt to her feet and declared she wouldn’t put up with ageist or sexist comments any more. And they stopped overnight]
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=10840488

  125. Puff, the Magic Dragon.

    poroti@1778


    lizzie

    Remember Babette Francis’ “Women Who Want to be Women” ? Now there was a sad lot.

    AFAIR the head of their organisation was a man. Was it that Anglican priest who eventually went with great fanfare over to the Catholics when the Australian Anglican church ordained women as priests? (which happened in Adelaide btw. I remember saying they were welcome to him!)

    Maybe not, I can’t quite remember.

  126. Roger Miller

    The Coalition can no more throw the switch to fairness and equality than they can to policy.

  127. BH

    [I did not see the interview. So I bet Senator Milne is quoted out of context so Limited News can make their context appear credible]

    Guytaur – I saw the i/v and no, she wasn’t taken out of context. She said it. Smiled through most of the i/v when she blamed Govt. as well as Abbott for chaos in Parliament. Christine takes great delight in putting Labor down as often as she can on SkyNews. That’s why they keep asking SHY and her to appear. They know they will get a few lines.

    When Labor criticises the Greens it is SHY and CM who squeal as loudly as the 2 Bishops, Mirrabella and now Vanstone (you know, the rude lady at the Australian Embassy in Italy).

  128. lizzie

    [Latika Bourke ‏@latikambourke
    It is interesting that over the w/e Penny Wong, Tanya Plibersek nor Greg Combet chose to back PM’s claim that Tony Abbott is a misogynist.]
    Leadershit??? 😀

  129. Andrew

    Something has certainly shifted with the PM’s speech in terms of the discourse around sexism in society. Abbott needs to be ultra careful with any further remarks he makes towards the PM as it will reinforce the views that have been solidified.

    Good to see OM clearly display their groupthink (PM speech bad, context, context, context) for all to see. What a disgrace.

  130. BH

    Whoops, just saw my mistake at 1797. Should have read

    [Right wingers don’t like it when they’re not allowed to lie all day without consequence]
    http://t.co/5E5U2gkg

  131. guytaur

    BH

    I do not dispute Senator Milne said it. I just question the article in the DT. We know that the PM has condemned the Slipper texts, not defended them.
    This is News Limited Spin. e.g. Did Senator Milne say it was wrong to defend the Office of Speaker.? The DT article leaves the impression that Senator Milne did. Their spin is insidious

  132. guytaur

    “@preciouspress: Press gallery advise Govt should move on from gender debate but keep reporting on it whist ignoring that Oppn. can’t read electricity bills.”

  133. shellbell

    [@Kate_McClymont: I have never seen anything like it. There must by 80 lawyers here for the ICAC’s directions hearing for upcoming Obeid/Macca/Roozendaal case]

    ALP may need to expel Obeid once they know what the allegations and evidence are as they did MacDonald.

    If NSW is the key state for next year’s Federal Election, decisive action may be required to exclude this monster inquiry poisioning the well.

  134. Puff, the Magic Dragon.

    lizzie@1802



    Latika Bourke ‏@latikambourke
    It is interesting that over the w/e Penny Wong, Tanya Plibersek nor Greg Combet chose to back PM’s claim that Tony Abbott is a misogynist.


    I think the government is leaving PMJG’s speech to stand alone. It does not need comment from Ministers, which would be used to shift the narrative. So desperate are the MSM they are using non-comments for this.

  135. lizzie

    [Jack Sumner ‏@preciouspress
    Press gallery advise Govt should move on from gender debate but keep reporting on it whist ignoring that Oppn. can’t read electricity bills. ]

  136. dedalus

    bk 1689

    I show the Ed Show clip. The good thing about it is that it’s unashamed partisan propaganda. I mean that in the best sense.

    There should be something similar in this country, where the left can hit back at the right. A sort of balance if you like.

    You just can’t beat propaganda as a back-up tool for supporting your case. If your case is a good one, so much the better.

  137. OzPol Tragic

    [The amazing thing about that piece is that I am sure that every woman that read it has a similar story. And that is without exaggeration. Just plain acceptance this is a woman’s lot in the corporate world.]

    Indeed! Sadly, 34 years after AntiDisrimination against Women legislation was passed, and women have reached the highest political and corporate ranks, discrimination against women is still rampant! I had a megadose of it last year from the men (ALL men) of the industrial construction companies to which my insurer allocated repairs to my home (&it still continues). Their collective understanding of domestic building was on a par with our cat’s (if not lower). Their frequent lies & “dumb old woman” patronising behaviour were extremely offensive: one engineer had the hide to lecture me (in language befitting a mid-primary pupil) about how different materials (wood, steel, aluminium) would move in different ways and to different extent during a building’s life) without once mentioning the term co-efficient of expansion (which Dad explained to me when I was c7yo) without checking whether I’d studied physics (I did; in fact, quantum physics still fascinates me). BTW, he missed a long crack in the slab floor that I had marked out, but forgotten to point out. Some observant male engineer! OTOH, those who assessed downstairs water damage (also men) were great: competent and very professional.

    I doubt there’s a woman in Australia (inc those rushing to Poor Widdle Tony’s defence) who hasn’t been the victim of quite recent sexist behaviour; hence the extent to which PM Gillard’s speech resonated with women (& men whose female family members & friends have had to confront it) all over the world. The true impact is unlikely to show up in the coming OpPolls, especially given the number of people (especially in Gens X-Z) without landline phones. But sexism is unlikely to diminish after that speech (in fact, might increase as more males feel more threatened).

    Those subjected to it (and men who support them) have seen their Prime Minister much lied-about, much slandered, much verbally abused, mush talked-over & shouted down by the likes of Alan Jones & Chris Uhlman, and subjected to vile slurs on posters (televised & printed across Australia’s mass media with hardly a journo voice raised in protest) much threatened with physical violence, even death, because of the “revolution” Abbott demanded of Australia, supported even more vilely by Shockjocks and threatened journos whose paper empires are disintegrating around them. They also watched their PM “turn the other cheek” during these assaults and the Opposition’s usual ranting SSSOs; until Jones’s slur “Her father died of shame because …” changed all that.

    Abbott should have had more decency and sense when than thunder at her wtte her government should have died of shame and be still laughing when she started speaking.

    2,000,000 hits across many uploads of that speech later, with the Opposition and press Gallery trying to blame PM Gillard for starting “sex wars” (as if Aussie women would fall for that lie) the slow burn is turning rogue.

  138. guytaur

    “@senatormilne: CC Dept admits very little data on CSG fugitive emissions in Australia. But no implementation of precautionary principle re license approval”

  139. Puff, the Magic Dragon.

    The ALP know Tony so well. Thank you Paul Sheehan for gathering such a terrific description of Tony Abbott. 😀
    [
    Read a selection of comments made by members of the Gillard government

    Tony Abbott is a hack. A dog. An aggressive, carping, bitter, mindless, deceptive, dodgy, mendacious, rancid, negative, nasty, muck-raking, untruthful, obstructionist, opportunistic, sexist, political Neanderthal. He is unfit for high office. He cannot control his temper. No trick is too low for him. No stunt is too wild. He is a bully. A thug. A snake oil salesman. A poster child for vile bully-boy values. He has repulsive double standards. He hates women. He stands for nothing. He has unhealthy obsessions. He is nuts.

    Abbott behaves like Jack the Ripper.

    He is Gina Rinehart’s butler.

    He is Nancy Reagan without the astrology. He is a douchebag.

    I’m quoting here, mostly from Hansard]

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/abbott-suffering-a-labor-party-stoning-20121014-27krw.html#ixzz29KAF63mE

  140. Puff, the Magic Dragon.

    And did anyone tell Paul that the ALP were highlighting Tone’s good points? 👿

  141. Fran Barlow

    Good news on energy efficiency and coal …

    Tarong Power station to reduced output by 50% (700MW)

    [Reduced demand, and the need to reduce carbon emissions, continues to have a dramatic impact on Australia’s coal-fired generators, with one of Queensland’s largest, the Tarong power station, forced to close half of its 1,400MW capacity. {…} But the full extent of the excess capacity was revealed in Stanwell Corp’s own annual report. It noted that on average during 2011/12, the state had 4,500MW of capacity more than it needed. Which was another way of saying that its entire 4,000MW portfolio of mostly coal and gas fired generation was surplus to requirements for much of the year.]

  142. OzPol Tragic

    [I think the government is leaving PMJG’s speech to stand alone. It does not need comment from Ministers, which would be used to shift the narrative.]

    Wisely, they let 2,000,000 hits across several uploads, untold hits on supportive, laudatory articles in International papers & blogs, shout support for PM Gillard’s rallying cry against sexism across the globe.

  143. leone

    Meanwhile the jolly young chaps in the Canberra branch of the Liberal Party are doing their bit to alienate women voters.
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-10-15/gallagher-complains-of-liberals-pursuit/4312770?section=act

  144. Just Me

    1813
    Puff, the Magic Dragon.
    [The ALP know Tony so well. Thank you Paul Sheehan for gathering such a terrific description of Tony Abbott.]

    Sheehan is going to regret writing that article. 🙂

  145. spur212

    What we’re looking for today is a fall in the strongly disapprove number in Gillard’s personal rating today from Essential as well a rise in the disapprove, indifferent, approve or strongly approve categories

  146. guytaur

    “@stevethompson49: “That’s why the Indies, Greens and Labor voted against his motion. … to stop Tony’s stunt” http://t.co/2u5k65l5

  147. Think Big

    spur212

    Bernard Keane on twitter said that there was a big jump in the PM’s approval numbers in essential but that Abbott had done OK as well.

  148. guytaur

    “@joeobrien24: Bill Shorten media conf expected to start within next few mins on #abcnews24 .. response to review of the Fair Work Act”

  149. Burgey

    What time does Essential usually hit the web?

  150. shellbell

    Essential between 1pm and 2pm

  151. joe2

    Follow up to Chenworth article in AFR linked to earlier.
    [ Neil Chenoweth ‏@NeilChenoweth
    @eatatjoe2 @broomstick33 I don’t think Alan Jones is the only media making money from carbon & chaos politics http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2012/01/05/398594/murdoch-press-carbon-price-negative-campaigned-against-it/ … #newsltd ]

  152. Fran Barlow

    PtMD

    It is indeed curious that Sheehan would provide such a handy summary of the things said about Mr Abbott.

    Now personally, many of those are things that I find lacking in the specificity one wants in critique, quite apart from their rather baleful effect on public debate.

    Some of them {carping, bitter, mindless, deceptive, dodgy, mendacious, negative, nasty, muck-raking, untruthful, bully, obstructionist, opportunistic, sexist, stands for nothing} would of course be entirely apt, if given suitable context.

  153. joe2

    [Abbott needs to be ultra careful with any further remarks he makes towards the PM as it will reinforce the views that have been solidified.]

    Andrew, it was instructive that the day after the Gillard speech Abbott called her “a piece of work”. Conveniently passed over with no comment by MSM when it is obvious he would never use such words against a male.

  154. lizzie

    http://www.independentaustralia.net/2012/business/media-2/the-contexts-of-julia-gillards-speech/
    A comment by “Meg” at the end. This is what is being blotted out by the msm.
    [One thing the media has conveniently ignored is the motivation for Abbott to move the “get rid of Slipper” vote. In had become clear earlier that day that Slipper’s position had become untenable, but action was happening behind the scenes. The Indies were doing most of the running, but Labor was also talking to him. I’ve heard from insiders at PH that Abbott was aware of this; that Slipper was likely to go later that day and the Coalition was invited to be part of a managed departure that left everyone with as much dignity that could be summonsed in that awful situation. Did Tony play along? No. He tried to gazump everyone for his own twisted moment of glory. That’s why the Indies, Greens and Labor voted against his motion. Nothing to do with saving Slipper, but to stop Tony’s stunt which had pissed off everyone who had been working hard to find a manageable solution.]

  155. shellbell

    Shorten mention amendments to act dealing with complaints about FWA members and conflicts.

  156. victoria

    [IR Minister Bill Shorten says the Govt will change the name of Fair Work Australia. (something they asked for post invest. into HSU)]

  157. victoria

    [IR Minister Bill Shorten says the Govt will be reforming Unfair Dismissal law recognising need for improvements for small biz.]

  158. victoria

    [IR Minister Bill Shorten – Govt will reduce time for lodging unfair dismissal to 21 days so after then ‘everyone knows where they stand.’]

  159. Andrew

    Lizzie, how unsurprising that Abbott would not play along and allow Slipper to depart with dignity. Why isnt this story not being report by the gallery, the so called insiders?

  160. Fran Barlow

    Let me go on the record as a Green as saying that I was disappointed with Christine Milne’s contribution on the “sexism/misogyny” debate, at least as I have read it.

    Firstly, and most obviously, we ought as Greens to be very careful that anything we say in public can be sufficiently distinguished from anything the Coalition has or might say to be distinctively a Green critique. If we can’t say anything that fits that description, unless there is some important principle involved, we ought to find something else to remark upon. It’s not as if there weren’t other things to say yesterday. The movement of women on supporting parent benefit onto the totally inadequate “NewStart” — something the ALP once opposed — was an obvious thing. IIRC she did comment on that but this is something that was not going to be confused with the LNP and was important.

    Mentioning Slipper as part of the “hypocrisy” was most regrettable for reasons we have already noted here although she did have a point about Feeney.

  161. victoria

    Latika has blocked this twitterer. I actually think this person is asking some pertinent questions

    https://mobile.twitter.com/GCobber99/tweets

  162. Jackol

    So, various commentators are suggesting the government needs to move on from attacks on Tony Abbott’s sexism/misogyny.

    But who is it who is dwelling on this? The ALP is not bringing it up repeatedly – they get asked questions, and mostly refuse to engage. Julia Gillard’s one speech stands on its own. It’s not the ALP making an ongoing deal out of this, it’s the OM and the LNP.

    And anyone who complains that we should be talking about policy rather than Tony Abbott’s personal failings – well, bloody well start talking/reporting on policy then – I’m looking at you OM and LNP. I would certainly cheer if the media actually was focusing on policy and ignoring the stunts and personal sledging from both sides. Evidence suggests that it won’t happen. Shiny thing!

  163. spur212

    Essential

    47/53.

    The ALP down 1 on the primary vote. Others/Independents up 1.

    Gillard: Approve 41 (+6) Disapprove 51 (-3)

    Strongly Approve 9 (+2), Approve 32 (+4), Disapprove 24 (-3), Strongly Disapprove 27 (0), Don’t Know 8 (-3)

    Abbott: Approve 37 (+5) Disapprove 54 (-1)

    Strongly Approve 9 (+3), Approve 28 (+2), Disapprove 23 (-3), Strongly Disapprove 31 (+2), Don’t Know 9 (-4)

    Better PM: Gillard 43 (+3) Abbott 36 (-1)

    http://essentialvision.com.au/documents/essential_report_121015.pdf

  164. lizzie

    For those who are suspicious of the IPA (as you should be).
    George Monbiot 1 Oct 2012.
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/oct/01/rightwing-insurrection-usurps-democracy
    [Over the last few years I have been trying better to understand how the demands of big business and the very rich are projected into policymaking, and I have come to see the neoliberal thinktanks as central to this process. These are the groups which claim to champion the free market but whose proposals often look like a prescription for corporate power.

    I see these people as rightwing vanguardists, mobilising first to break and then to capture a political system that is meant to belong to all of us. Like Marxist insurrectionaries, they often talk about smashing things, about “creative destruction”, about the breaking of chains and the slipping of leashes. But in this case they appear to be trying to free the rich from the constraints of democracy. And at the moment they are winning.]

  165. guytaur

    Spur

    So Labor is competitive. Woohoo. Truly game on now. Mr Abbott is going to have to do some putting up.

  166. Von Kirsdarke

    Francois Hollande has announced plans for education reform in France. Probably the most interesting part of it is abolishing homework.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/12/french-president-francois_n_1962494.html

    Hollande claims that work should be done at school, rather than at home. And also that children are not on a level playing field when it comes to homework, with some parents providing assistance and others not.

    It’s an interesting debate.

  167. lizzie

    Andrew

    Exactly. And then they accuse us of “not getting the point”.

  168. guytaur

    “@senatormilne: Clean Energy Regulator accepts companies word for it re emissions from CSG based on USA methodology. No audits of CSG corps done.”

  169. Jackol

    Andrew, it was instructive that the day after the Gillard speech Abbott called her “a piece of work”. Conveniently passed over with no comment by MSM when it is obvious he would never use such words against a male.

    I disagree. Tony Abbott would use such an epithet against anyone, and I’ve argued before that Julia Gillard asked for it to be withdrawn because it was a gratuitous personal insult, and not parliamentary terminology.

    It wasn’t sexism it was just personal, nasty and unnecessary.

  170. victoria

    the latest essential is looking better for Labor. I am curious as to why Newspoll is shaping up to be the most erratic polls at present

  171. Sohar

    Someone said recently (worked for Essential) that Essential has 61% of its continuing sample who identify is LNP and 29% ALP, so 47% is excellent.

  172. spur212

    guytuar

    What bothers me is that it’s been so horrific for so long that most people on the left have lost perspective of what good actually is. Although 36% primary vote is far better than it has been, it needs to be put into perspective. In 2006, 37% primary vote for the ALP was considered a disaster. Keating makes the 4 in front of the primary vote point for a simple reason that the ALP never seem understand: you don’t win with the base!

  173. Jackol

    Someone said recently (worked for Essential) that Essential has 61% of its continuing sample who identify is LNP and 29% ALP

    That’s a kind of meaningless statement to make. The proportion of “LNP” and “ALP” is probably as is reported (it’s what they’re trying to measure after all), and changes over time.

    Essential, because of its somewhat novel sampling approach, probably does apply some magic factors to its raw results to balance out issues with the sampled sub-population, so it is possible that the raw population is as skewed as you suggest, but it’s unlikely. And meaningless to guess at.

  174. Andrew

    How is Abbott’s approval up 5? Hard to believe

  175. Meguire Bob

    sour 212

    Alot of people get the feeling if Gilalrd can get the primary vote up to 35-36% with a year to go , she will likely retain government

    at this point , you would be brave to say the coaliton has any chance of winning with Abbott

    Gillard and labor are too close to the 2010 election result wiht every thing going Abbotts way

  176. Meguire Bob

    spur212 i mean 🙂

  177. Andrew

    I presume given Essentials rolling averages, that last week was better for Labor than the week before?

  178. Leroy

    victoria

    Possum may be working on something re increasing the randomness (i.e. deviation either way from the overall trend over time) of Newspoll & other phone polls. See his timeline from last night. He had some graphs. So for if example Newspoll is around LNP 52 – ALP 48, and we get a 50-50 then a 54-46, each poll will produce silly horserace articles reading false significance into the last fornights events.

    https://twitter.com/Pollytics
    [Possum Comitatus ‏@Pollytics
    That’s probably all a bit obscure – will write an article covering it fully. Meanwhile, here’s a graph http://twitpic.com/b42afg
    9:58 PM – 14 Oct 12

    Possum Comitatus ‏@Pollytics
    This is an example of why we have pathetic political analysis – commentary based on polls based on randomness http://twitpic.com/b428cd
    9:54 PM – 14 Oct 12]

  179. Meguire Bob

    The coalition has lost the election by default with abbott

  180. Jackol

    How is Abbott’s approval up 5? Hard to believe

    I believe the theory is that the events of the last week, and ‘the speech’ in particular, will be polarizing – people who sat on the fence will come out strongly for Gillard or Abbott depending on their perspective.

    Perhaps that has been borne out by these results.

  181. Puff, the Magic Dragon.

    Von Kirsdarke@1840


    Francois Hollande has announced plans for education reform in France. Probably the most interesting part of it is abolishing homework.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/12/french-president-francois_n_1962494.html

    Hollande claims that work should be done at school, rather than at home. And also that children are not on a level playing field when it comes to homework, with some parents providing assistance and others not.

    It’s an interesting debate.

    This has been my long-held view. If more needs to be learned in a day, the school days should be longer and summer holdidays shorter. After all the school calender was originally set up to not interfere with child labour in homes and farms and to free kids to help with the summer harvests. Not many kids go home to feed the livestock anymore.

  182. victoria

    Leroy

    Will be interesting to see what Possum comes up with because Newspoll is rather curious of late

  183. Leroy

    Andrew – I’ve given up trying to guess Essential’s latest weeks. Aguirre seemed to get it right last time, so be interested to know what he thinks.

  184. donb

    Maybe it is just me, but I was also surprised that the “piece of work” comment did not rate much of a mention – in all my days I have never heard “piece of work” applied to a male. And most times I hear it, its preceded by “nasty”.

  185. This little black duck

    leone@1817


    Meanwhile the jolly young chaps in the Canberra branch of the Liberal Party are doing their bit to alienate women voters.
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-10-15/gallagher-complains-of-liberals-pursuit/4312770?section=act

    Mr Seselja is doing himself no favours:
    [Canberra Liberals Leader Zed Seselja says he is not aware of the incident.

    He says he does not support harassing behaviour but has accused Ms Gallagher of over-reacting.

    “I think calling the police appears to be an act of intimidation against them,” he said.

    “I think it seems to be a gross over reaction from Katy Gallagher.”]

  186. Sohar

    The Libs have never led Labor by 32%. Also if the most extreme result was 60-40 to libs in the past and the sample taken when 55-45 then they must have had to create a bias to achieve 60% to Libs. Seems flawed to me.

  187. guytaur

    Puff

    There is a lot to be said in Australia for two shifts for teaching students in a day. This way you can avoid the peak heat in the afternoon and reduce air con costs and make better use of resources available for teaching.

  188. leone

    Tony is being so successful in Indonesia.
    First he shows the impeccable manners that only an expensive private school education can give by planting his foot on a table where small children are eating.
    https://twitter.com/mulgabob/status/257660368044830720/photo/1/large
    Sensitive Tony hasn’t noticed that the adults are looking at his foot.

    Then he tells one lie to the Indonesians which is at odds with the lies he tells us.
    http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/national/abbott-sends-mixed-messages-clare/story-e6frfku9-1226496130962?from=public_rss

    And still the polls insist his approval rate is on the up. Who do they ask? Pond scum?

  189. Bushfire Bill

    It seems that Gillard and Labor are helping each other to improve in this poll.

    Julia’s personal improvement bodes well. Up 6 points.

    Her speech seems to have polarized the electorate, because Abbott is up 5 also.

    But coming off a lower PV base, plus-6 for Gillard is much more impressive than Abbott’s plus-5.

    It’s taking time. It’s slow. It’s frustrating. There don’t seem to be any tectonic movements. But Labor is demonstrably improving and Gillard’s personal approval can’t hurt that at all… in fact may aid it.

    Despite the blanket “context” push from the OM, it seems enough people have made up their own minds to outweigh it.

    It could have been a terrible couple of weeks for Labor. Slipper forced to resign. Labor voting for him to stay. The Bali 10th anniversary reminding everyone who’s “strong” on National Security, and who’s not (at least not supposed to be). Unemployment up a bit. The banks not passing on the full interest rate reduction. The CFMEU joke that is so horrible we’re not allowed by the gatekeepers to hear it. The whole “context” thing. Even the bad weather in the Eastern States would have put a dampener on things.

    But all of these have been somewhat ignored.

    Labor has held its own and seems to be solidifying gains, both in leadership and voting intention.

    Another few months of this and Labor is demonstrably competitive. As the Carbon Tax bogey sinks into the sunset, and the summer takes over with brighter prospects for all things are likely to improve ((except if you’re a Queensland public servant, or a farmer witnessing the start of an el Nino drought).

    Being behind is never as relaxing as being in front, of course. But gaining ground from behind is the next best thing. Essential has finally broken into the high 40s for Labor, pretty significantly.

  190. Doyley

    Perhaps the Abbott plus 5 is a lingering result of the “my darling husband ” blitz from his wife still washing through.

    It would have been interesting to see approval stats last week after his wife went public so we could compare with this weeks figures.

  191. Andrew

    53/47 seems disappointing, but it is a significant comeback, and not too bad a place to be even going into an election campaign.

    The problem for Abbott is, how does he improve his position from here; he wont change tack, so he has no where to go but down? The PM has a a record and now improved personal standings (approval and PPM) to build on

  192. Fran Barlow

    donb

    [in all my days I have never heard “piece of work” applied to a male. And most times I hear it, its preceded by “nasty”.]

    Recalling my childhood, “nasty piece of work” was a regular refrain from my Anglo grandmother, and it was almost always a male she was referring to.

    There’s also a song by Deep Purple with exactly that phrase as the title. Ah, the memories …

  193. Von Kirsdarke

    I’ll be expecting stories popping up in the Murdoch rags about how Abbott is the descendant of an Aztec Sun God who will bring limitless wealth and happiness to Australia if elected as prime minister.

    After all, he has to be kept in the leadership and win in order to implement Rupert Murdoch’s neoconservative agenda as far as they’re concerned.

  194. Von Kirsdarke

    *in the lead up to the polls this weekend I should add.

  195. Andrew

    How long until someone from the OM tells us the PM’s speech has FAILED because of this Essential? 15 minutes?

  196. This little black duck

    Shellbell posted this earlier. It would make anyone’s day (except Tony’s)

    http://tonyandponies.tumblr.com/

  197. Bushfire Bill

    [in all my days I have never heard “piece of work” applied to a male. And most times I hear it, its preceded by “nasty”.]

    When I saw that I wondered why he said it. Gillard hadn’t done anything particularly “piece of work-ey” to my mind. Just the usual cut and thrust. Made me wonder how often he sledges her like this.

  198. victoria

    Andrew

    How is it a fail? Her numbers have improved

  199. BH

    [Did Senator Milne say it was wrong to defend the Office of Speaker.? The DT article leaves the impression that Senator Milne did.]

    guytaur – late answering, sorry. Had people drop in. Milne did say that it was wrong to defend Slipper. Quick as a flash Simon Benson said ‘well why did Adam Bandt support the Govt. in the motion’. Milne was a bit abashed at that but fumbled around to justify Bandt’s vote.

  200. victoria

    [GMegalogenis So male journos say @JuliaGillard shouldn’t have called @TonyAbbottMHR a misogynist because suburban blokes don’t like her. Funny that.]

  201. womble

    good poll for Julia – highest approval rating for 18 months, if I read it right

  202. guytaur

    BH

    Defending Mr Slipper is different to defending the Office os Speaker.
    It does sound like Senator Milne fumbled her response on Sky for whatever reason. However the Party got it right. They voted with Labor to defend the Office in the person of Mr Bandt.
    You see here more spin. Journo implying defending one means defending the other.

  203. Aguirre

    Jackol@1836


    So, various commentators are suggesting the government needs to move on from attacks on Tony Abbott’s sexism/misogyny.

    But who is it who is dwelling on this? The ALP is not bringing it up repeatedly – they get asked questions, and mostly refuse to engage. Julia Gillard’s one speech stands on its own. It’s not the ALP making an ongoing deal out of this, it’s the OM and the LNP.

    From what I’ve been reading, the press gallery are suggesting the Government move on. Well, they’re demanding it, to be accurate. They’re also demanding the Government explain itself, denounce Slipper for misogyny, exonerate Abbott from misogyny, root out misogyny in its own party, rise above the issue, engage with it, STOP ATTACKING TONY!, be consistent, break away from current thinking, honour parliamentary convention, do something parliament hasn’t done in 100 years, just put up with whatever Abbott says lest they be accused of hypocrisy, understand the ‘context’, and for Gillard to admit she was lying all that time when she said Abbott’s words didn’t affect her because they clearly did, that lying liar.

    I read Katharine Murphy’s article earlier, and I was going to take issue with this:

    [ It’s equally pointless for a remote audience selecting its own facts, and its preferred interpretation of them, to smash up reporters and commentators on the spot who want to deliver the banquet – all the elements of the event – not just the morsel the audience likes best. ]

    At first thought I considered the idea of political reporters serving a ‘banquet’ to be utterly ridiculous. We’re certainly getting an elaborately prepared meal, but it’s the same one being served up by all of them – the different names don’t fool us.

    But I had to reconsider thanks to Jackol’s post. There is a lot of variety in there. I wouldn’t have thought Gillard could be attacked from so many different directions, some of them completely contradictory to each other.

  204. guytaur

    “@davidbewart: I call on @tonyjones to start #qanda with an apology to @KateEllisMP and an undertaking not to let it happen,again to anyone. @qanda #auspol”

  205. Leroy

    Bushfire Bill

    I think its fairly well known amongst the journos and politics watchers that Abbott sledges the PM during Parliament while the mikes are off him. I’ve seen it referred to a few times, but never as a main point.

  206. poroti

    victoria
    [Andrew

    How is it a fail? Her numbers have improved]
    In the world of the OO “It just is”.

  207. Boerwar

    Essential is good, IMHO. The PM continues to pull away from the the LOTO.

  208. Just Me

    1865
    Andrew
    [53/47 seems disappointing, but it is a significant comeback, and not too bad a place to be even going into an election campaign.]
    Doesn’t Essential use a two poll rolling average?

    Meaning this is actually a pretty good result for Labor?

    And I agree, nicely on trend for the government.

  209. Bushfire Bill

    This is the full context (that word again) of the “piece of work” interjection.

    Gillard was commenting on the bill presented earlier on, and misrepresented as being an $800 increase due to the CT, when it fact it was the consumption figure that had doubled.:

    [ JULIA GILLARD: … Let us for once have the opposition try to have a mature debate about the facts. Let us see an end to the reckless negativity and to the false fear campaign. The track record so far today is one bill referred to and misrepresented in this parliament—it actually showed a 9.13 per cent increase because of carbon pricing. The nature of the misrepresentation of this bill I cannot judge because the documents are being covered up.

    Mr Abbott: You are a piece of work.

    Mrs Markus: I am not covering up the documents. I seek leave to table—

    Ms Gillard: On a point of order, Madam Speaker: the Leader of the Opposition just referred to me as a ‘piece of work’. I require that to be withdrawn.

    The SPEAKER: I ask the Leader of the Opposition to withdraw.

    Mr Abbott: I am happy to withdraw.

    Mrs Markus: In the interests of transparency, I am more than happy to seek leave to table the document. ]

  210. Andrew

    victoria the PV is down a point and the 2PP unchanged. This will be used to justify their negative spin on the speech.

  211. shellbell

    French schools have longer hours and a bigger lunch break.

    They used to open on Saturday mornings.

  212. Boerwar

    I have yet to see any member of the MSM to pick up on the disjunct between Mr Abbott promising no policy surprises when the official trip by Mr Abbott and his cohorts was a last minute arrangement, presumably designed to steal oxygen from Ms Gillard’s visit to Afghanistan and India, the latter to stitch up some good news for uraniaum investors in Western Australia.

  213. Bushfire Bill

    [How is it a fail? Her numbers have improved]

    It will only be a success when Abbott resigns in shame and the Coalition all join the Labor Party as a way of saying sorry for all the personal sledging.

    Other than that: GILLARD FAIL.

  214. guytaur

    Andrew

    I agree Shanahan, Bolt and Akerman will try it on. However Lenore Taylore, Mega and the like will not. They have been blasted by too many people for the whole context thing.

  215. Jackol

    well why did Adam Bandt support the Govt. in the motion

    The utterly stupid part of the OM buy-in to the LNP line on this is the concept that Tony Abbott, or anyone else, can just move a “popularity contest” stunt vote at any time and we are supposed to take it seriously.

    Sometimes votes are defeated because it’s not the right time, or because it’s a stunt. It’s not a matter of naively just saying you voted for/against X, therefore you believe/don’t believe in X. Context, what context OM?

    Tony Abbott could move a motion that said that the HoR should henceforth refuse to accept petitions that include signatures from paedophiles. It would be a stupid, meaningless motion, which should be defeated as unworkable and an assault on the democratic rights of all citizens to provide input to the parliament, but a vote against such a motion would likely be reported as “supporting paedophiles” by this OM.

    Not to compare the Greens with the Tony Abbott led LNP, but the Greens frequently put motions/bills in to the Senate which are routinely voted down regardless of the headline merits or otherwise of the motion/bill in question. We don’t see the OM reporting each and every one of those defeats as the government (or opposition, who always joins them) voting against conservation or voting against transparency or whatever it might be.

    It’s just Tony Abbott’s stunts that get reported as being a crucial moral test. Bias much? Lack of context much?

  216. Puff, the Magic Dragon.

    Bushfire Bill@1871



    in all my days I have never heard “piece of work” applied to a male. And most times I hear it, its preceded by “nasty”.


    When I saw that I wondered why he said it. Gillard hadn’t done anything particularly “piece of work-ey” to my mind. Just the usual cut and thrust. Made me wonder how often he sledges her like this.

    If comments are to be believed, every day. I think it is what PMJG meant when she said sexism ‘every day’.

  217. Tom Hawkins

    I see that old man Murdoch has again endeared himself to the British public

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-10-15/murdoch-labels-hacking-victims-scumbag-celebrities/4313292

  218. Bushfire Bill

    A +6 in Gillard’s personal rating has to be looked at in context (there I go again!).

    There are many more Coalition voters, yet Abbott could still only score a +5 in his own rating.

  219. Boerwar

    I saw the interview of Ms Milne.

    Summary: Greens good; Labor bad; Coalition bad.

    Ms Milne indulged in the usual sky fairy/magic pudding Greens populism.

    We can have it all and it will cost nothing.

    No journalist asked Ms Milne about the Greens policy to give everyone an extra weeks holiday. Nor did they bother to ask what Ms Milne thought would be the impact of closing down Olympic Dam Mine, which is also Greens policy.

    They were more interested in whether Ms Milne thought Mr Feeny’s joke was sexist. Ms Milne thought so. It was definitely a personal jibe at Ms Milne but I found it difficult to find any sexism per se in it.

  220. victoria

    I forgot to mention that the hard copy of the Herald sun had a full page story by Bolt. Subject matter appeared to be that PMJG needs to answer further questions re S&G snd Union

  221. deblonay

    A matter re the PB Blog_
    ________________
    William
    The pale green lettering used on PB is harder to read(for my old eyes anyway) than a bolder colour would be
    The Black lettering is fine…but any chance of a change in colour
    Thanks for all your work too

  222. Bushfire Bill

    [If comments are to be believed, every day. I think it is what PMJG meant when she said sexism ‘every day’.]

    “Piece of work” isn’t sexist. It’s just nasty. Contrary to others here I’ve heard many males referred to as a “piece of work”.

  223. BH

    [How long until someone from the OM tells us the PM’s speech has FAILED because of this Essential? 15 minutes?]

    Did it take that long? I reckon we’ll ll hear ABC news bulletins all over it this arvo. After all, Tony Abbott’ Indonesian trip was headline news this morning on the early ABC radio bulletins and the PM’s trip was about 4th. Abbott got at least 4 sentences, the PM 1.

    To cap that off I then saw that Eric Campbell has given up tweeting because of NewsLtd. Time for big questions to be asked.

  224. shellbell

    If the quarterly info from Newspoll a few weeks back is reliable, the Federal voting intention in News South Wales and Qld is still the ceiling which needs to be smashed through for competitiveness to translate to victory.

  225. guytaur

    victoria

    Sounds like Mr Bolt’s Tinfoil hat has fallen off.

  226. Puff, the Magic Dragon.

    I have heard ‘piece of work, including ‘nasty or ‘right’ against males and females. It wasn’t sexist but the PM wanted it withdrawn, and it was.

  227. Leroy

    victoria

    Andrew would be referring to no rise in TPP for the ALP. Of course, no one in the govt said it would, no one praising the speech in print or on blogs said that, and even ALP supporters here were divided (most seemed to think it wouldn’t,), but I sensed last week that this would be the straw-man argument, tipped off by the reaction of one of the house pessimists on PB.

    You know – after a look to find the lowest metric, “Look at the polls! It proves the whole govt approach is wrong!” blah blah.

  228. Socrates

    Von Kirsdarke
    [Francois Hollande has announced plans for education reform in France. Probably the most interesting part of it is abolishing homework.]
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/12/french-president-francois_n_1962494.html%5D
    Thanks for the interesting link; I largely agree with Hollande for a number of non-equity reasons that relate to quality of education. A lot of attention is paid to the rates at which hot-housed students get entry to tertiary courses, but far less notice is given to how they perform after they get there. The students “pushed” through high school tend to fall behind unless they are highly motivated. The student still needs to learn discipline, but not via hours that kill the body and mind.

    I think there is far too much pressure on school students today, and too many time demands. It strangles creativity and sometimes the ability to learn for themselves. Some students simply learn to buy essays on the internet. It also stops them learning how to relate to their peers, having time to be fit, and to be healthy.

    Pesonally I almost never did the three hours per night of homework recommended for us in high school. At university I only once staid up past midnight finishing an assignment (never at high school), and never craming for a test. I thought then that such efforts were often counter-productive, and am even more convinced of it now.

  229. leone

    Puff
    Three cheers for Francois Hollande. My views too.

    Schools send work home simply because parents demand it. It is not done to finish work that could not be completed during the school day. I refused to have anything to do with homework whn I was teaching primary school, unless school policy made it unavoidable.

    Homework helps no-one. Bright kids don’t need to rehash the day’s work at home and kids who are having problems get absolutely no benefit from it. If they get it wrong then they have just reinforced incorrect methods and it will take extra effort in class to fix that. Often parents will do the work themselves, that doesn’t help anyone. Valuable class time has to be spent marking and going through the damn stuff, time that could be spent on real, important learning. I won’t even start on the family friction all that ‘go and do your homework NOW’ nagging brings on.

  230. Bushfire Bill

    People take a long time to admit, even to themselves, that they might change their vote.

    It just doesn’t happen that millions of voters change voting intention at the drop of a hat, week by week, issue by issue.

    It’s “safe” to say Gillard did OK last week and uptick your personal approval for her.

    It’s an entirely different matter to say that your “decision” not to vote Labor and all those articles telling you that Labor is gone for all money are wrong, and that it’s YOUR decision to do something about it.

    The punters are stubborn. They still think they should be angry with the government over the CT, even though the CT hasn’t hit nearly as hard as it was supposed to. They’re like children, chucking a tanty and refusing to say sorry.

    They’ll come around and, frankly, the longer Abbott stays as the front runner, the better. He’s one of the best things Labor has going for it right now.

  231. Aguirre

    That Essential result is excellent. It helps to put the whole think in context (to adopt an utterly abused word of late):

    Two weeks ago Essential was showing 53-47, in from 55-45. On the rolling average, that would mean the most recent component was somewhere around 51-49. Last weeks 53-47 was a result of last week’s component swinging back toward 55-45 again. It means this week’s component is back down near 51-49. it may have flattened out a little, but it’s definitely closer than 53-47 this week.

    As always, you have to be a bit speculative with Essential because you can never be exactly what each week’s component looks like, you can only guess from what you’re given. But seeing as Newspoll swung back from 50-50 (from quite a while ago) to 54-46, there is some consistency across the two polls.

    What it means is that Abbott’s “but my wife thinks I’m a top bloke” gambit did indeed work, and quite spectacularly. I think we here at PB were a bit shocked by that and mostly refused to believe it. But that’s certainly what it looks like now. It was timed to hit the press right through the polling period, and it did its job the way it was intended.

    However, it only stalled the general flow of votes back to the ALP. On Tuesday Abbott managed to kick himself in the arse and reverse all the good work of the weekend. Any halfway intelligent operative might have attempted to capitalise on the change in sentiment and flaunt a new, sensitive Tony around the place. But no, he decided to place sexism, in particular his own, right back on the agenda. Well done, Tony.

    His approval ratings have gone up a bit, so that part of it has lingered a little. But the party are declining again.

  232. theclaw

    @Boerwar 1893

    [They were more interested in whether Ms Milne thought Mr Feeny’s joke was sexist. Ms Milne thought so. It was definitely a personal jibe at Ms Milne but I found it difficult to find any sexism per se in it.]

    Especially since, based on the description of said joke (“a series of pictures that feature the same image of Senator Milne with the caption, ‘the different emotional states of Senator Christine Milne'”), it’s a venerable internet meme which has been repurposed to refer to various people, both male and female. If I recall correctly, the first occurrence was “The different emotional states of Steven Seagal”.

  233. deblonay

    Murdoch’s various campaigns__
    _______________________
    The Murdoch press in OZ is running endlessly with the story about Gillard and her previous legal activities with Slater and Gordon
    Do the old monster’s men see this as an as a new Front in their campaign against the Labor Govt

    Interesting too that in the USA …via his much loved Tweets in the last few days Murdoch had unleased a bitter attack on Obama and Biden

    Hyper about the Bengazi kilings ..and today an attack on Ob ama saying he is a threat to Israel which Murdoch says he has no sympathy for and saying he dislikes Natanyahu greatly

    Some of this may be true in many ways but why would Murdoch go for broke in utterances which make him an eneny of Obama in the years ahead…if he wins
    He is the most powerful man in the world after all

    It’s said that Murdoch loved getting into the White House and No 10 in London…all gone now I suspect

    Murdoch is know to be close to the Israels but his open attacks on Obama as strange at this stage of history

  234. poroti

    theclaw

    [If I recall correctly, the first occurrence was “The different emotional states of Steven Seagal”.]
    Well remembered. Here is the picture.
    [Steven Segal’s Emotions Chart]
    http://civilianmilitaryintelligencegroup.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/1114200983512AM_SeagalEC.jpg

  235. Jackol

    Homework helps no-one. Bright kids don’t need to rehash the day’s work at home and kids who are having problems get absolutely no benefit from it.

    I don’t entirely agree. I suspect it’s another of those things that varies enormously from student to student.

    I remember from my own schooling that there was quite a difference in some qualitative way to what I learned in class vs what I learned via homework. One wasn’t necessarily better than the other, but there was some reinforcement due to coming at knowledge in different ways.

    I was kind of a class “swot”, although in later years I tried to live that down a bit – you know not putting my hand up all the time etc etc. But things didn’t necessarily come easily, and sometimes it was having an arbitrary amount of time where I sat down to bash something out that got me where I needed to go, sometimes it was talking about it with family (who obviously weren’t particularly invested in whatever the subject was at the time, although my family was quite academic so they always had some input).

    The difference in concentration required for a significant project vs day to day lessons was also a factor. I could concentrate in a short-term way for normal lessons, but if I needed to spend any length of time working on something I couldn’t concentrate properly on it in the normal scheduled school hours – something about a period ending at a certain time removed that sense of “I just need to work at this until I get it done” and turned it into “I just need to faff around long enough until the period is over and deal with this later”.

    I’m sure homework doesn’t work for everyone, and isn’t appropriate in all circumstances, but … I don’t think it should be just abandoned as a concept. I suspect that doing so might advantage some students while disadvantaging others.

  236. Boerwar

    The speed of sound at sea level is 1,235 km/h. It is not absolute. It varies with both temperature and air density. Mr Baumgartner is said to have travelled at around 1,100 km/h.

    On those figures, Mr B does not appear to have broken the speed of sound. OTOH, the folks doing the support stuff clearly knew their stuff and I would not expect them to make either idle or ill-informed claims about Mr B going faster than the speed of sound.

    I would dearly love someone who knows sound physics to have a close look at what really happened. According to Mr Baumgartner he felt nothing when he is supposed to have gone through the sound barrier. OTOH, objects such as planes create a sonic boom when they pierce the sound barrier and the stresses involved are quite large. In early attempts at breaking the sound barrier, test planes sometimes disintegrated in the attempt.

    As a passing note, not all that far above where Mr Baumgartner started his descent, there is no sound; sound has no speed and there is no sound barrier.

    All the special effects you see in space movies involving earth-like sound effects during space flight are the result of earthlings getting it wRONg.

  237. Andrew

    Aguirre the only reason the Margie intervention helped was the blanket, fawning coverage News Ltd and the ABC gave it. The Herald Sun had a free colour front page advertisement. How could it not help?

  238. C@tmomma

    Andrew@1848,
    How is Abbott’s approval up 5? Hard to believe

    My guess is that Abbott cornered the vote of those who swallowed the media line that:

    1. ‘They’re all the same’ after the CFMEU joke fiasco.

    2. He was the only one of the 2 leaders ‘principled’ enough to try and get Slipper out of the Speaker’s chair after the text messages were ‘discovered’ and covered endlessly in the media for the last week or so.

    As opposed to the PM who ‘supported’ Slipper.

    It’s all spin and wild contextual conjecture by the media, of course, but some people keep taking the bait and get hooked. I think especially if Laurie Oakes, Mark Riley, Kochie & Mel, and Karl & Lisa follow the same script.

  239. imacca

    So according to essential TPP is steady. The PM’s approval is up and her PPM rating up.

    Will be interesting to see if approvals filter through to the TPP over the next few weeks.

  240. Gorilla

    I wonder what “par” is for a five year old government a year out from an election – ie to have a 50% chance of winning. 48-52?

  241. Socrates

    Snap, Leone!

    Back to work for me; I agree the Essential Research result was good for Gillard. She should call Abbott on misogyny more often. The shoe fits.

  242. Boerwar

    Home work did me good, IMHO. It created an on-going learning connection with parents. It fostered self-discipline. It fostered revision.

    I am sure that it is useful or useless equally for everyone equally.

  243. poroti

    deblonay

    [The Murdoch press in OZ is running endlessly with the story about Gillard and her previous legal activities with Slater and Gordon]
    They are walking down the same road to obsession that Pies has with his never ending claims about the (drum roll) Heiner Affair.

  244. zoidlord

    It seems the same slow creeping of polls heading of Labor’s favor.

  245. grantplant

    Apologies if this has already been posted. A prize example of what a horrible, nasty, old swine Mordor has well and truly become;

    [Rupert Murdoch has labelled victims of phone hacking “scumbag celebrities” after they met David Cameron during the Conservative party conference.

    On Saturday night Murdoch took to Twitter to criticise the talks in Birmingham between the prime minister and members of the Hacked Off campaign, singer Charlotte Church, former Crimewatch presenter Jacqui Hames and actor Hugh Grant.

    Murdoch tweeted: “Told UK’s Cameron receiving scumbag celebrities pushing for even more privacy laws. Trust the toffs! Transparency under attack. Bad.”

    The comments sparked a storm of disapproval, with Murdoch repeatedly asked to apologise for the remarks and remove the tweets. Hames hit back at the head of News Corp, tweeting: “Never let the facts get in the way of a good story eh Rupert. Happy to discuss our concerns with you sometime?”. She added: “I’ve been called worse, but admittedly not by CEO of large multinational corp.”]

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2012/oct/14/rupert-murdoch-phone-hacking-scumbags

  246. guytaur

    Oh Oh. Remember “The Macarena”? This will be worse in saturation.

    @psy_oppa: I’m coming Sydney~!!! Are Ya READY~!?? #PSYatSYDNEY1016 http://t.co/PQj6pC1B

  247. Socrates

    Jackol
    [I’m sure homework doesn’t work for everyone, and isn’t appropriate in all circumstances, but … I don’t think it should be just abandoned as a concept. I suspect that doing so might advantage some students while disadvantaging others.]
    True but the evidence is taht it doesn’t work for the majority. We should make policy for the majority. It can be optional for those who want it. But your beign a swot and doing well with homework proves Leone right – the good students still do well anyway. The bad ones would be better off going for a run around the block and relaxing.

  248. rishane

    [Aguirre the only reason the Margie intervention helped was the blanket, fawning coverage News Ltd and the ABC gave it. The Herald Sun had a free colour front page advertisement. How could it not help?]

    Ordinarily you’d think they’d save something like that for closer to the election. Its an approach with diminishing returns, really.

  249. poroti

    From the Grauniad’s article about Murdoch’s “scumbag” tweet..

    [Murdoch replied, somewhat incomprehensibly: “They don’t get arrested for indecency on major LA highways! Or abandon love child’s”…….

    The incident was not entirely without humour, however, with one wag tweeting: “The real scandal here is that the head of a news empire can’t pluralise the world ‘child'”.]

  250. Boerwar

    M Hollande had better spend some quality time focusing on the french economy rather than worrying about homework.

  251. Andrew

    rishane, it was very instructive that it happened now, and not at election time. It shows Abbott’s position within his party is parlous; maybe he is one bad newspoll (2PP-wise) from oblivion

  252. zoidlord

    @Jackol, @Socrates,

    I disagree, when I was at school, TAFE etc, they told us that learning is preparing for Work, so if that is the case, we should leave all our work at school/tafe/uni/etc.

  253. Jackol

    I don’t think “optional” works Socrates. I think compulsory homework is a valid additional teaching strategy. It can be overdone, and excess homework or reliance on assessment of homework is not good.

    My point was that I think I would have done significantly worse in school without compulsory homework, and I doubt I’m the only one.

    My further point was that scheduled school hours are a quite artificial structure to place around learning. Learning after leaving school can’t be placed in nice little boxes; you have to have the discipline, willpower, concentration to keep working at something without a deadline, and no other part of the schooling process trains you in those circumstances.

    I’m not up on teaching theory or what evidence you’re referring to, but I would be surprised that a clear statement that “it doesn’t work for the majority” can be made, given that homework has to be part of a broader picture. Perhaps in a marginal sense you’re right – more homework doesn’t improve student learning outcomes beyond a certain point etc.

  254. Aguirre

    My computer just chewed up my post. I’ll try to rephrase because I’m not going through all that again:

    Abbott’s approval is probably exterior to anything he’s said or done against the ALP. Both leaders’ approvals went up, so neither of them were at the expense of the other.

    The Margie saga probably reached more people than Gillard’s speech. Sounds awful to have to say it, but because one was filtered uncritically through the media and the other fought tooth and nail by journalists, the message was clearer with Margie.

    Margie effect can’t last though – it fights against the tide. We know what Abbott is like; he can’t sustain the fiction that he’s a sensitive new-age guy. Gillard’s speech was within character, so it can be built on.

  255. C@tmomma

    While I still remember…I noticed a new meme this morning that the Coalition are trying out in the media.

    Did you know that, ‘Our interest rates are among the highest in the world and that is causing the Australian $ to be too high and that is wrecking the economy at home and causing all sorts of problems for business’?

    It has a kind of plausible believability as an explanation for why consumer and business confidence is down and people aren’t spending. Plus it has the added benefit of making what is a stellar economic performance in this country seem like a liability.

    I mean, that is where the Coalition have still got it over the Labor Party. They seem to have people working tirelessly for them who come up with a new wrinkle, every time the last one gets ironed out by the government. So the government has to play catch-up constantly and deconstruct the new scaffold they have created and filter out into the electorate via their media megaphones and political brethren in the Cooalition States.

    John McTernan, George Wright and their staff, should be sharp enough to be going through every day’s media transcripts with a fine tooth comb and antennae tingling to pick up on these new kites that the Coalition constantly keep putting up. Then get someone out toot sweet to pull them apart and expose them for what they are. Misleading, misconstrued, misinformation.

  256. Jackol

    I disagree, when I was at school, TAFE etc, they told us that learning is preparing for Work, so if that is the case, we should leave all our work at school/tafe/uni/etc.

    Learning is not “preparing for work”. Business and government keep trying to focus on some measurable direct economic connection between schooling and work so as to reduce the equation to simple economics. There are many types of work, and for some work it may be an appropriate sentiment.

    Learning, and the important subset of learning how to learn, is about training people about how to function in life, and life is more than work, but sticking to the context of learning as applied to work:

    There are a significant proportion of jobs where learning is part of work – most of the professions – scientists, engineers, medical practitioners, etc. I know as an engineer that a significant part of my job was being able to learn new technologies, new standards, design new products and analyze them, etc. For that job the concept of learning in nice little hour long chunks just wouldn’t have worked for me, and I suspect without homework I never would have developed the discipline to sit down and solve a problem or understand a new technical standard – something that might take a week or two of diligent effort on my part.

    I’m actually somewhat shocked that people are suggesting what amounts to a one-size-fits-all solution (“no one should get homework”) when we know perfectly well that education doesn’t work the same way for everyone.

  257. Andrew

    Aguirre, Abbott couldnt sustain the good guy image for two days. I’m suprised that for a man who is supposedly intelligent, he would not have seen the good strategy behind at least pretending to be nicer for a few weeks to enable any bounce from Margie to set in

  258. Andrew

    You make a good point though Aguirre, as I’ve said previously. I wonder how much uncritical OM support is worth in voting terms. Imagine if the PM’s speech was treated in the same uncritically positive way as the Margie story? I think she would have gotten a bounce out of it in PV and 2 PP terms

    But as I have said, I dont think the immediate electoral impact is not what matters; it is the long game. And the PM did something last week that may be looked back upon as the real turning point in her fortunes.

    Just what to do about OM; they will fight her tooth and nail to the ballot box

  259. Jackol

    I’m suprised that for a man who is supposedly intelligent, he would not have seen the good strategy behind at least pretending to be nicer for a few weeks to enable any bounce from Margie to set in

    Ah, but that’s the thing – he had a window of opportunity of only an hour or two to move his Slipper motion. He knew, as everyone in parliament knew, that Slipper was being counseled to resign as the motion was being moved. In another hour Slipper could well have announced his resignation (as he subsequently did), and the opportunity to pull his stunt and kick the government would have passed.

    That’s context for you. Tony Abbott knew he could have sat on his hands and let Slipper step down on his own terms and preserved Tony’s new “SNAG” image. Instead he couldn’t help himself but to pull his stunt at the only time available.

  260. spur212

    Maybe Gillard’s rise was because Obama kept defending Big Bird last week and Abbott’s rise was because Romney won the first Presidential debate …

    In short, most are reading too much into it

  261. Aguirre

    You know how they’ve been saying Abbott has a problem with women but Gillard has a problem with men? I’m not sure they should be counting on that too much. Checking the PPM figures at Essential, it turns out men are split 40-40 on their choice of PM, while women prefer Gillard by 47-33.

  262. Fran Barlow

    Jackol:

    [I’m sure homework doesn’t work for everyone, and isn’t appropriate in all circumstances, but … I don’t think it should be just abandoned as a concept. I suspect that doing so might advantage some students while disadvantaging others.]

    The problem here is that you can’t really prevent people from doing homework (or more typically) prevent parents from insisting upon it, so any attempt to “ban” homework really isn’t going to work in favour of equity or even produce meaningful data to assess the net impact of the measure.

    It’s my professional view that as much as is realistically possible of a student’s professionally guided learning should take place on school grounds during school hours. Of course, not all learning can always be performed effectively in a class setting. Students sometimes need extension work or fail to finish things they perhaps should heve in class — not always because they are lazy or less able or because the teacher has required too much. Some people actually work better in a quiet home setting and these days with IT, they can get access to course materials at home, bring the work to school on laptops and storage devices and so forth. They may be able to research the web more easily from home in some cases as DET doesn’t always classify sites consistently. Some practical activities — which could be surveying their families, doing human movement activities or working on practical tasks such as food tech exercises or in textiles, may require some home-based work. In one exercise, recently, students had to diarise the ads their siblings were watching in the afternoon for a health class. These data were then part of an IT-based task on data entry and design of spreadsheets/databases and also a maths task on quantification and graphing.

    In short, providing we aren’t simply handing out “busy work” to impress the parents with our insistence on academic application — but have an academic justification for the home-based task and therewith some means for assessing and reporting on the task itself — I have no problem with homework. On such occasions, I set it.

  263. C@tmomma

    What’s not to despise about Bibi Netanyahu? And Rupert Murdoch for that matter? Talk about ‘Birds of a feather’. I can fully understand why Prfesident Obama may not like either of them. 🙂

  264. Kevin Bonham

    My reading of the Essential result is that the impact of the gender wars on their sample was probably small, and not even clearly detectable. I base this on comparing their netsat changes over the period 10 Sep – 15 Oct with Newspoll’s netsats for the Newspolls of Sept and Oct. Average the two Sept Newspolls and compare them to the Oct 8 Newspoll and Gillard and Abbott were each up 7 in Newspoll over the same period as of Oct 8. So for Gillard to be up 9 and Abbott up 6 in Essential – it’s not a statistically meaningful difference and it may be that Gillard would have picked up anyway. People can read these big netsat changes as down to the gender war thing and be puzzled but not realise the gap between Essential readouts is large.

    It’s quite common for the commentariat to go nuts about parliamentary goings-on having a big voter impact only to find that the polls don’t agree, at least in the short term.

    Note also that the trend so far this term has been that Gillard netsat, Labor 2PP and Abbott netsat all run together in the same direction.

    Will be interesting to see what other pollsters get.

  265. Jackol

    Fran Barlow –

    In short, providing we aren’t simply handing out “busy work” to impress the parents…

    Thanks for that response. I agree and it’s reassuring to hear this perspective from someone working as an educational professional.

  266. zoidlord

    @jackol/1931

    So you think that homework should be forced on all of us if you think homework is OK for you?

  267. The Finnigans

    Another lie from the Canberra Press Gallery smashed that PM has men problem – latest Essential shows men are split 40-40 for PPM

  268. The Finnigans

    When the great Zhou Eng-Lai was asked about the French Revolution. He said “It’s too early to tell”. Ditto with PM gillarding of Abbott

  269. Jackol

    Zoidlord –
    I think homework has its place.

    Part of our working lives and part of being in our society is about doing things that we are effectively forced to do. That extends from completion of tax returns to learning new technologies for work or our social life.

    Homework shouldn’t be overwhelming; it should have a point.

    It being “forced on all of us” is neither here nor there.

    If it were possible to work out which students would benefit from compulsory homework and which students would not beforehand, then I would say absolutely tailor the education for the child.

    I can’t help but suspect that all children benefit from the concept of homework to some extent – if only, as I have been arguing, in terms of breaking down the boundaries of where learning applies. You don’t only learn in school in neat one hour chunks. In day to day life, including work, learning doesn’t fit that pattern.

  270. womble

    Anyone know where can find a link to the David Feeney pictures of Christine Milne???

    I’d interested in people’s thoughts on them

  271. rishane

    [You know how they’ve been saying Abbott has a problem with women but Gillard has a problem with men? I’m not sure they should be counting on that too much. Checking the PPM figures at Essential, it turns out men are split 40-40 on their choice of PM, while women prefer Gillard by 47-33.]

    Shh, you’re gonna spoil the ‘they’re as bad/unpopular as each other’ narrative! 😉

  272. BH

    [I’d interested in people’s thoughts on them]

    Womble – stupid but a copy of what has been done before.

  273. Fran Barlow

    jackol:

    [If it were possible to work out which students would benefit from compulsory homework and which students would not beforehand, then I would say absolutely tailor the education for the child.]

    In principle that sounds good, but in practice, most students said to be likely to “benefit” from it would feel as if you you were singling them out, which would prejudice the calculus. In practice, (save in those cases where we are talking about work that needs to be completed and could have been in class but wasn’t) you have to give a specific piece of homework to everyone, and ensure you assess and report professionally on it in a timely way, or not give it out at all.

  274. citizen

    I should have probably posted this at the ACT election thread, but anyway:

    [Police have been called over an election campaign incident at the weekend with Chief Minister Katy Gallagher complaining about being ”harassed” by a group of young men working for the Canberra Liberals.
    The Chief Minister’s staff called ACT Policing after Ms Gallagher was allegedly pursued by two car loads of young male Liberals while she was campaigning in southern Canberra on Saturday.
    The Chief Minister, who was alone in her car but had staffers in nearby vehicles, said she was followed at one point during the pursuit into a deserted Kambah car park.
    But the Canberra Liberals yesterday accused the Chief Minister of ”overreacting” and said reporting the incident was ”an absolute waste of police resources”.]

    Read more: http://www.canberratimes.com.au/act-news/gallagher-complains-of-libs-pursuit-20121014-27la6.html#ixzz29KvBh9kh

  275. guytaur

    “@JamesPMorrison: Mississippi Tea Party says women are too emotional and diabolical to vote http://t.co/ceL0gNpa via @examinercom”

  276. Andrew

    Kevin I object to the use of the term gender wars. It is a MSM construct in order to paint the PM’s speech in a negative light

  277. victoria

    [NSW Liberal Premier Barry O’Farrell says voters have made up their minds about the next federal election and Tony Abbott will become prime minister.]

    http://www.afr.com/p/national/politics/farrell_predicts_abbott_election_vpEkp7ojZxfDYfy3PqAdnO

  278. C@tmomma

    Another thing which piqued my interest whilst I was out and about in the car, was a story on The World Today about Domestic Violence being the highest in the world in The Solomon Islands.

    Why?

    The explanation was given that the population are highly religious and that the men there misconstrue a particular passage of the Bible by Paul to justify their violent treatment of their wives. Something to do with ‘women must submit to men’.

    Also, it was pointed out by Reverend Tim Costello, that the devoutly religious, the sort that let religion rule their lives and thoughts, will always believe that God created Man and that Woman was created from Man’s Rib, thus Women will never, and should never, be the equal of Men in their eyes.

    Explains a lot about Tony Abbott’s attitudes to women who are in positions of superiority to him if you ask me.

  279. Andrew

    Thanks Mr O’Farrell for reminding voters that the odius Mr Abbott could actually be PM. That should help Labor’s improvement along

  280. guytaur

    “@chrismurphys: YouTube worldwide:2 main videos: 5.5m viewed Obama&Romney Presidential debate. An extraordinary 1.7m viewed GillardPM on sexism #auspol”

  281. C@tmomma

    victoria@1952,
    NSW Liberal Premier Barry O’Farrell says voters have made up their minds about the next federal election and Tony Abbott will become prime minister.

    Just as the vote for the Coalition is going South.

    Yeah, right, Barry! 😀

    Anyway, I thought ‘a day was a long time in politics’, so what’s he doing predicting the election result this far out?

    Answer: Trying to shore up his man against justified attack.

  282. rishane

    [“@chrismurphys: YouTube worldwide:2 main videos: 5.5m viewed Obama&Romney Presidential debate. An extraordinary 1.7m viewed GillardPM on sexism #auspol”]

    Given the difference in population/influence between America and Australia (not to mention the debate being available for longer), that’s a pretty stunning statistic.

  283. mari

    guytaur
    Thanks for retweet re Latika B tweet have now found you and followed

  284. guytaur

    mari

    Your welcome 🙂

  285. mari

    victoria
    Posted Monday, October 15, 2012 at 2:59 pm | PERMALINK
    NSW Liberal Premier Barry O’Farrell says voters have made up their minds about the next federal election and Tony Abbott will become prime minister.
    Which of course Lartika dutifully tweeted

  286. mari

    guytaur
    Posted Monday, October 15, 2012 at 3:10 pm | PERMALINK
    mari

    Your welcome I am @randlight

  287. mari

    guytaur
    So far 8 retweets , 2 favorited and 2 new followers out of that tweet, better watch out Lartika might block me like she did one of my followers this morning

  288. joe2

    [Anyone know where can find a link to the David Feeney pictures of Christine Milne???]

    Look for three tweet/pics 2 on 1 Oct and one on Oct 2.

    https://twitter.com/SenatorFeeney

    Peeps thought he had been hacked. But he hadn’t. Stupid, immature stuff imo.

  289. BSA Bob

    C@tmomma 1930
    I reckon the whole interest rate thing’s one of the best examples of how the coalition are allowed to get away with anything in the artificial construction of the Perpetual Present. Lower now than at any time under Howard?. Doesn’t count. Were they high in relation to the rest of the world then? Doesn’t count. Cutting into the income of self funded retirees & the like, a supposedly stalwart group of coalition voters? Collateral damage. Don’t talk about them, they’re sufficiently rusted on & anyway they’ll buy our general “Labor doom & gloom” product. What would the liberals do about it? Don’t ever, ever ask that.
    But I agree entirely with your general theme, the coalition’s just so good at it & gets so much media help that the government can only play catchup. And who listens to that? There’s no time, did you hear what Mr Abbott said today?…

  290. Seasprite

    I think it’s worth taking a hit in the polls to expose Tony Abbott’s character, the focus has been on the PM since last election.

    The spotlight is on Tony and his opinions, Labor may get some blowback from the older conservative voter and people will feel some sympathy towards him.

    This will fade and voters will know and remember the darker side of Tony Abbott’s personality come the next election.

    The focus should now turn to policy, a good start tonight on QANDA, should any questions come up a blunt refusal to talk about anything other than policy and the economy.

  291. PoK

    From the SMH this morning. It suggests that Murdoch still has the numbers but appears that the storm clouds are gathering.
    http://www.smh.com.au/business/us-pension-funds-want-murdoch-out-20121014-27kwd.html
    Didn’t seem to last long on the front page of their financial section either but I could be wrong there.

  292. frednk

    Well the press doubled up, full front page advertisements for the lovely wife, the full bottle. And still the polls move to Labor. Unhinging progressing nicely.