Facebook Google Menu Linkedin lock Pinterest Search Twitter

Advertisement

Federal Politics 2013-

Jan 23, 2014

BludgerTrack: 52.5.47.5 to Labor

With only one new poll to go on, the weekly BludgerTrack aggregate finds the trend to Labor that kicked in around November still hasn't abated.

User login status :

Share

It’s been a disappointing week for poll junkies, with the phone pollsters including Newspoll evidently waiting until after the Australia Day long weekend before ending their New Year hibernation. Since this is an off-week in Morgan’s fortnightly cycle, that just leaves Essential Research. All told, there have only been three poll results published so far this year – two from Essential and one from Morgan – so you’re more than welcome to take BludgerTrack with a bigger-than-usual grain of salt for the time being. For what it’s worth though, the one new data point has driven the Coalition to a new low of 39.3% on the primary vote, and pushed Labor’s two-party lead to a new high of 52.5-47.5.

That might seem counter-intuitive given that the one new poll had the Coalition leading 51-49, but there are three factors which have made it otherwise. First, in adjusting the pollsters for their house biases, a unique approach has been adopted for Essential Research to acknowledge that its bias is in favour of stability, rather than one party or the other. For example, Essential overshot on the Labor vote during the election campaign as momentum swung towards the Coalition, but it’s been doing the opposite since the Coalition started heading south in November. So rather than the usual method of determining bias with reference to past performance in late-campaign polls, I’m plotting a trend of Essential’s deviation from BludgerTrack so its bias adjustments change dynamically over time. With Essential stuck at 51-49 to the Coalition while other pollsters are being fairly unanimous in having Labor leading 52-48, you can pretty much work out for yourself what the Essential bias adjustment currently looks like.

The second point is to do with rounding. While Essential’s two-party result was unchanged this week, the primary vote had the Coalition down two points, Labor down one and the Greens up one. Most of the time that would mean a one-point shift to Labor on two-party preferred, but this is one of those occasions where the shift went missing after the remainders were pared away. However, BludgerTrack doesn’t actually use pollsters’ published two-party results, instead determining primary vote totals and deriving a two-party result from them using 2013 election preferences. So the Essential result looks like a slight shift to Labor compared with last week, so far as BludgerTrack is concerned. The third point is that Essential’s numbers are a two-week rolling average (though last week’s result, being the first from the year, was a sample for that week only), so any change that occurs in a given week is a bigger deal than the published numbers suggest.

So it is that BludgerTrack gives Labor a 0.5% gain on the two-party preferred projection and a boost of three on its seat tally. The state relativities haven’t changed much since last week, so the Labor seat gains are evenly spread, with one each provided by Victoria, South Australia and Tasmania. Full results as always on the sidebar.

William Bowe — Editor of The Poll Bludger

William Bowe

Editor of The Poll Bludger

William Bowe is a Perth-based election analyst and occasional teacher of political science. His blog, The Poll Bludger, is one of the most heavily trafficked forums for online discussion of Australian politics, and joined the Crikey stable in 2008.

Get a free trial to post comments
More from William Bowe

Advertisement

We recommend

From around the web

Powered by Taboola

2463 comments

2,463 thoughts on “BludgerTrack: 52.5.47.5 to Labor

  1. zoomster

    And – I promise, folks, for the last time – dtt, I used actual data to show there was a link between those leaks and Labor’s decline in the polls.

    You have provided nothing to disprove that.

  2. deewhytony

    Comments on the Pickering Post going apeshit about Adam Goodes being made Australian of the Year.

    Seem to be blaming Tony Abbott!

    All want war with Indonesia – no volunteers though!

  3. bemused

    himi@2146

    bemused@2085

    To my mind, although she was obviously far from perfect Gillard was an exceptional PM, under exceptionally difficult circumstances. I’m struggling to understand why so many people see things so differently.

    himi

    Apart from saying that people see things differently and have different backgrounds from which to form a judgement, I will confine myself to your last paragraph. (quoted)

    The difficult circumstances of minority government were created by the events of 24 June 2010 and all that flowed from them.

    I don’t see her as an ‘exceptional’ PM other than in a predominantly negative sense. And the public judged her harshly – not exactly indicative of a good PM as part of a politicians job is to maintain political support.

    But obviously, a significant number of people saw her differently. That is the case with all leaders.

    Far better to look at mistakes both Gillard and Rudd made and try to learn from them.

    One thing’s for sure, it will be one hell of a long time before another ALP PM is dumped by caucus.

    In terms of policy development and implementation, Gough Whitlam remains the best PM in my lifetime.

    Whitlam worked tirelessly, along with his colleagues, to develop a range of policies on which they fought and won the battle of ideas. He was elected to government and then set about implementing those policies.

    And that, himi, is how it should be done IMHO.

  4. confessions

    DTT:

    Who the hell cares about the 2010 election? It’s ancient history, underscored by the retirements of Gillard, Rudd, several other Labor MPs from those days, Labor’s new leadership election rules, and the present day reality of an Abbott Coalition govt.

  5. confessions

    [Of course, dtt’s accusations about climate change denial and lack of action on carbon pricing are particularly ironic, given her constant whinges leading up to the introduction of the carbon price.]

    Hell yeah. DTT’s entire MO is wrapped up in Rudd cultism.

  6. Puff, the Magic Dragon.

    DTT
    No, you are just kicking Gillard again, but dressing it up as concern.

    Who said every idea had to be brilliant anyway? Male PMs are not held to that standard. What about Rudd’s idea of appointing Coalition lackeys to plum jobs, or dropping Garret into the crap, or that dumb take-over of the state hospitals idea.

    Gillard has not got the copyright on mistakes, and the ALP tried different ways to prosecute their agenda, some worked some didn’t. So what? You have got do-nothing Abbott now, but at least you have the comfort of knowing it is not Gillard. That must be worth a raised glass or two.

  7. AussieAchmed

    Australia’s leading corporate chiefs on the four things leaders should never do

    (see LeadingCompany at bottome of page)

    And Abbott ticks the box on everyone of them…what an inept pathetic failure he is…

  8. bemused

    Psephos@2162

    Just for you, Deblonay
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jb6nR_kdk9w

    Clearly the product of sick minds.
    I have friends who come from Iran and they have family and friends there.

  9. bemused

    deewhytony@2165

    Comments on the Pickering Post going apeshit about Adam Goodes being made Australian of the Year.

    Seem to be blaming Tony Abbott!

    All want war with Indonesia – no volunteers though!

    Conscript the lot of them!

  10. frednk

    DTT is here to remind us just how appalling and damaging the Rudd spear carriers were; and doing an excellent job I add.

  11. AussieAchmed

    Certainly Labor has no mortgage on dumb ideas…need only look at Abbott and his front bench.

    One thing they have outdone Labor on…debt. It took Labor 6 years and a GFC to to get their debt level…it took Abbott around 3 months with a strong economy to double it.

  12. daretotread

    Zoomster

    I think you are being narky and not grasping in the least what I am saying. I have not made any comment about the wisdom of the Carbon Price. My comments related to the Citizen’s Assembly which was so obviously an attempt to ditch the ETS, that I am surprised there is debate on the issue. You only need the sort of discussion on the issue if you have doubts and if at least some people involved are not convinced of the issue ie are deniers.

    Now this has not one whit to do with what I believe on the issue. It is about POLITICS.

  13. AussieAchmed

    A good distraction can halt progress for years.

    Just like a good slogan can stop critical thinking for a generation.

  14. Psephos

    [I have friends who come from Iran and they have family and friends there.]

    So do I. That doesn’t alter the fact that the Tehran regime is one of the world centres of evil and will have to be dealt with eventually.

  15. daretotread

    Fred

    You and Zoomster and Confessions are here to remind us of how politically inept Gillard supporters were and doing and excellent job I add.

  16. deblonay

    Bemused
    It was actually John McCain…,who sang during a former election meeeting a song”Bomb Bomb Bomb Iran” …based on… I think..n old Beachboys song…

    McCain is listed as being a massive receipient of AIPAC funds..and if that’s what Netanyahu wants …that’s what McCain wants and it’s Netanyahu who pays the piper

  17. taylormade

    DTT – 2163

    Simply could not hold their nerve under pressure. Always worried about focus groups and what twitter had to say rather than sticking to and defending the original policy.

    Hence the many back flips and sense of chaos.

  18. bemused

    Psephos@2177


    I have friends who come from Iran and they have family and friends there.


    So do I. That doesn’t alter the fact that the Tehran regime is one of the world centres of evil and will have to be dealt with eventually.

    And bombing really discriminates between the good and the bad, doesn’t it?

  19. daretotread

    Puff

    The only relevant issue is how Labor can remove Abbott and the far worse mob around him. That requires good electoral politics. This means looking at mistakes of the past and trying to learn from them

    How bloody hard is it for people to grasp this.

  20. Psephos

    [McCain is listed as being a massive receipient of AIPAC funds.]

    AIPAC have very good judgement, I’ve always thought. McCain is one of the better Republicans. But I’m sure most of their efforts will be directed at electing Hillary Clinton in 2016. America always does best under a War Democrat.

  21. Tom the first and best

    2177

    Iran would probably be easier to deal with if China and Russia were responsible democracies, as their people (and all people) are entitled to have.

  22. daretotread

    Taylormade

    Spot on!!!

  23. confessions

    [DTT is here to remind us just how appalling and damaging the Rudd spear carriers were; and doing an excellent job I add.]

    DTT is here to keep the Rudd cultism alive. For what reason is anyone’s guess, but his/her delusion that we have a citizen’s assembly rather than carbon pricing, and that this means something in 2014 under an Abbott govt is somewhat disturbing.

  24. Tom the first and best

    2179

    The song dates from the Iran hostage crisis (i.e. 1980).

    It would have been good if the operation to free the hostages had worked. Iran may not now be run by the Ayatollahs and Carter may have been re-elected.

  25. imacca

    [Comments on the Pickering Post going apeshit about Adam Goodes being made Australian of the Year.]

    One of the site s to visit if you ever need confirmation that there are indeed some completely whack-jobby individuals out there. I wonder what you would have to post to get moderated off that site??

  26. bemused

    taylormade@2180

    DTT – 2163

    Simply could not hold their nerve under pressure. Always worried about focus groups and what twitter had to say rather than sticking to and defending the original policy.

    Hence the many back flips and sense of chaos.

    As opposed to the Whitlam approach which I mentioned @2166.

    A true political leader, like Whitlam was, takes the lead on issues and policies and wins the battle of ideas. That needs to be done before implementing a policy. It requires discipline, patience and determination.

  27. himi

    bemused@2166


    Apart from saying that people see things differently and have different backgrounds from which to form a judgement, I will confine myself to your last paragraph. (quoted)

    Obviously that’s hard to argue with . . .

    I apologise to everyone who’s been irritated by this line of discussion – I’ll try not to respond any more since it’s not going anywhere, but I figure I’ll at least respond to this.

    I don’t see her as an ‘exceptional’ PM other than in a predominantly negative sense. And the public judged her harshly – not exactly indicative of a good PM as part of a politicians job is to maintain political support.

    See, that was what I was trying to get an answer on – /why/ was she judged so harshly, not just by the public but by the media, by a whole lot of people even including hard core Labor supporters like yourself. Because the /only/ thing that I can see that Gillard did wrong (ignoring policies that I disagree with and so forth) was to fail to convince people to listen to her. But /why/ didn’t she manage that? It’s obviously a pointless question to be asking of you, since you can’t seem to get past . . . well, whatever it is that made you think she was worthless, but I just haven’t been able to find any kind of sensible explanation for what happened.

    In any case, this has turned into a big storm in a teacup that’s now totally irrelevant. Time to empty it out and put it in the dishwasher, I think.

    himi

  28. deblonay

    Re Iran……………

    “world centre of evil”…and will have “to be dealt with” ” …How ?

    That sounds like Netanyahu.at his worst .??? sounds like him…or even mad Bush at his worst…which has produced what ???…Iraq today

    actually” Iran being dealt with” is not on the US agenda now anyway If I read the US policies correctly”…the Saudis..yes..and Israel yes…always

    but even in the last weeks ,the Turks have moved to a link with Iran….and certainly the Russians and the Chinese will not allow any ” 2003 -Iraq-type” attack on Iran…if that’s what is meant by “dealt with “….surely a euphemism for a major war in the M East

  29. confessions

    [Simply could not hold their nerve under pressure. Always worried about focus groups and what twitter had to say rather than sticking to and defending the original policy.]

    It’s been reported that this was one of the main reasons Rudd was removed in the first place. Pandering to the media cycle rather than doing the actual work of governing.

  30. Diogenes

    [nonsense. Gillard repeatedly committed to pricing carbon during the 2010 campaign.]

    Yeah she was so committed to a carbon price she said she’d have a Citizen’s Assembly.

  31. bemused

    confessions@2186


    DTT is here to remind us just how appalling and damaging the Rudd spear carriers were; and doing an excellent job I add.


    DTT is here to keep the Rudd cultism alive. For what reason is anyone’s guess, but his/her delusion that we have a citizen’s assembly rather than carbon pricing, and that this means something in 2014 under an Abbott govt is somewhat disturbing.

    Oh, right, I get it, let’s go into the next election proposing a Citizen’s Assembly on a whole lot of things. That should do it! Victory is assured! 😆

    Oh, and since you mention ‘cultism’ you appear to be the high priestess of the cult of the Immaculate Gillard. People like DTT & I acknowledge errors and achievements by both Rudd and Gillard. Nothing cultish in that.

  32. zoidlord

    Yawn – retiring for the night, noise on PB is getting beyond the joke.

  33. deblonay

    Hillary Clinton…a war Democrat(as was her Husband if one thinks of the Balkan war)would be a major purchase for the zionist lobbys’ peak-body AIPAC…who spend massive sums in every election in the USA.buying politicans ..only the Guin Lobby outspend them and it is if possible… even more virulent

  34. deblonay

    I think it was Mark Twain who said …in the USA the honest politican is one who when he is bought…stays bought”

  35. confessions

    [People like DTT & I acknowledge errors and achievements by both Rudd and Gillard. ]

    *laughs. hard*

    You should become a comedian, bemused. You really are a crack up.

  36. bemused

    himi@2190

    bemused@2166


    See, that was what I was trying to get an answer on – /why/ was she judged so harshly, not just by the public but by the media, by a whole lot of people even including hard core Labor supporters like yourself. Because the /only/ thing that I can see that Gillard did wrong (ignoring policies that I disagree with and so forth) was to fail to convince people to listen to her. But /why/ didn’t she manage that? It’s obviously a pointless question to be asking of you, since you can’t seem to get past . . . well, whatever it is that made you think she was worthless, but I just haven’t been able to find any kind of sensible explanation for what happened.

    In any case, this has turned into a big storm in a teacup that’s now totally irrelevant. Time to empty it out and put it in the dishwasher, I think.

    himi

    himi, it is a pleasure to engage in dialogue with you because you are genuine and interested in opinions other than those agreeing with you.

    She was not worthless and I have never said that. She just did not cut it as PM.

    I imagine there are some good PhD theses or even books to be written on this and I am not going to do it.

    To me, she just seemed to make bad judgements such as the aforementioned Cash for Clunkers and CA.

    She also seemed to lack a certain quality that successful leaders have. It inspires others to follow.

    A good example was the role Anna Bligh adopted during the floods in Qld. She stood out as being in charge and providing a lead others were prepared to follow.

    When Gillard appeared with her, she really added almost nothing. She could have asserted leadership of the Federal response and articulated what the Federal Govt would do. No doubt she did it in some way, but it was so low key I have forgotten, if I was ever aware.

  37. Diogenes

    In the end it was Labor who screwed it up, leaving us with the Lizard King as PM.

    [The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ,
    Moves on: nor all your Piety nor Wit
    Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line,
    Nor all your Tears wash out a Word of it.]

  38. bemused

    Tom the first and best@2187

    2179

    The song dates from the Iran hostage crisis (i.e. 1980).

    It would have been good if the operation to free the hostages had worked. Iran may not now be run by the Ayatollahs and Carter may have been re-elected.

    Or maybe they should have never engineered the overthrow of the Mossadeq Govt. in 1953.

    But of course I am sure Psephos will assure us that Mossadeq was a Communist, an agent of Satan or some other bogey man.

  39. confessions

    Dio:

    Correct. Responsibility for the Abbott govt can be fairly sheeted home to Labor.

  40. bemused

    confessions@2198


    People like DTT & I acknowledge errors and achievements by both Rudd and Gillard.


    *laughs. hard*

    You should become a comedian, bemused. You really are a crack up.

    Glad I have brought out your previously well hidden sense of humour.
    Try going back over posts tonight and you will see what I mean.

  41. Tom the first and best

    2201

    Of course Mossadeq should have stayed as long as the Iranian people wanted him. Getting rid of him was of course Winston Churchill`s policy, carried out by the Americans as reward for British help in Korea, because the UK owned Iran`s oil industry that Mossadeq tried to buy.

  42. bemused

    Tom the first and best@2204

    2201

    Of course Mossadeq should have stayed as long as the Iranian people wanted him. Getting rid of him was of course Winston Churchill`s policy, carried out by the Americans as reward for British help in Korea, because the UK owned Iran`s oil industry that Mossadeq tried to buy.

    Tom, I heard a great documentary on ABC radio on that subject. Worth chasing up and having a listen.

  43. himi

    My final comment on all this (at least for tonight):

    Parliament Deathmatch!

    Diogenes@2200

    In the end it was Labor who screwed it up, leaving us with the Lizard King as PM.


    The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ,
    Moves on: nor all your Piety nor Wit
    Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line,
    Nor all your Tears wash out a Word of it.

    Give me Raptor Jesus any day . . .

    Ask Raptor Jesus

    himi

  44. Diogenes

    Fess

    The annoying thing is I was hoping he might not be as bad as I thought he’d be but he’s even worse than I expected. He doesn’t even have that veneer of competence that Howie had.

  45. briefly

    [2143
    daretotread…..

    to learn from mistakes and try to avoid making new ones. The problem is that if people do not even see it as a mistake we seem doomed to repeat it.]

    Reading your endlessly repetitious scribblings is one such error that I have no trouble avoiding.

  46. absolutetwaddle

    If you spend any of 2014 on the Internet talking about R*dd and G*llard may I suggest masturbating to hardcore pornography instead? Because there’s a surplus of that on the Internet too but in the end something vaguely worthwhile is produced from the latter activity.

    I hear, anyway.

  47. WeWantPaul

    [In the end it was Labor who screwed it up, leaving us with the Lizard King as PM.
    ]

    As many mistakes as Labor made voters made their choice and get what they deserve.

  48. Tom the first and best

    2207

    The veneer of reasonable government is what won Howard the 1998 election. Without it he would have lost. Abbott is thus in serious danger at the next election.

  49. taylormade

    Confessions – 2192

    Yes but did not stop with Rudd though.

    Barry Cassidy said it best on an edition of Insiders a couple of years ago. Labor always had to meet the critics of its policies half way. For example:

    ETS – Throw in bucket loads of compensation to counter the opposition scare campaign = ETS policy loses its effectiveness.

    Mining tax – Water down the original policy in the face of mining industry and opposition scare campaign = Mining Tax raises less than expected.

    I sometimes wonder about Labor’s position, standing and also the state of the budget if these 2 policies were implemented in their original form. End result could not have been much worse, actually may have been better ??

  50. confessions

    Dio:

    I was hoping his government would turn out to be do-nothing, but it appears they’re on course to be do-anything instead.

    I agree it’s frustrating. The strides our country took to the future over the last few years will inevitably count for nothing if Abbott has his way. I’m even pinning hopes on PUP to be some kind of voice of reason. How deluded is that?!

  51. deblonay

    Bemused …re Mossadeg(so he was an Agent of Satan was he ???)
    __________________

    Yes that was great documentary(BBC I think ) on Mossadeq
    His fall
    placed the Shah in power until the Islamic Revolution…when left in power Mossadeq may have created a kind of social democratic regime in Iran
    All remembered there I’m sure …and despite Israeli wishes for a US war on Iran it is not going to happen
    .
    BTW there is a great book on the fall of the Shah
    …by Shawcross(son of Labour lawyer in the UK after WW2)…and a current UK journo..and he looks too at the way the Shah and his relatives plundered the country as they left ,as the revolution engulfed them
    Even looted the major Art Gallery in Tehran…and as he fled the US wanted nothing more of him,..and he went to Egypt then Mexico…and I think died in Panama….
    when Uncle Sam is finished with you…that is it

  52. Jackol

    Confessions – I wouldn’t describe PUP as a potential voice of reason, but I think they will be a thorn in Abbott’s side, and if Palmer sees an opportunity to get some mileage out of taking a principled stand (that doesn’t impact his interests) then he and PUP may well do so.

  53. confessions

    [Barry Cassidy said it best on an edition of Insiders a couple of years ago. Labor always had to meet the critics of its policies half way.]

    And Cassidy made those observations as a member of the press pack which mercilessly hoed into Labor regardless of what it did. Bushfire Bill explained all this very well earlier today.

    At the end of the day however, the Gillard govt managed to legislate much of the ALP’s policy agenda. That she achieved this despite the circumstances of a hung parliament is further kudos to her and her government and the relationship she cultivated with the cross benchers.

  54. confessions

    Jackol:

    I don’t trust Palmer, but I’m hoping that his self interest will butt up against the agenda of the govt often enough for his Senators and that motoring mob to be some kind of check to the coalition.

    In my saner moments I don’t for a second believe that will eventuate.

  55. Tom the first and best

    2217

    Hopefully the Senate will cause Abbott to snap a DD upon us and then he can be Cooked.

  56. rossmcg

    Deblonay

    The shah died in Egypt after being locked out of panama.

  57. rossmcg

    Err … kicked out of panama because the locals didn’t want to be seen as a stooges of the US. The new government in Iran were also keen to extradite him from there

  58. deblonay

    No Politics here….. just some travel info
    _____________
    For anyone planning in the future to travel in the USA this video shows the service of AMTRAK on the long-distance trains(about 20 in all across the USA)
    Most are 2 or 3 day journeys
    This is a two person roomette on a Florida-NY train with all meals inc free for the 2 day journey. there are”day” coaches” for those who want to travel cheaply with arm chairs

    Food in the Heritage Dining car is of a good standard(and being the USA is in vast serves…just eat the”entree”..US-apeak for Main course ??)

    Each car has an attendant to give help if needed ,and assist
    There is also a cafe-car -buffet with light foods all day…also free

    http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/non_aviation/read.main/2517754/

  59. briefly

    [2213
    confessions

    I was hoping his government would turn out to be do-nothing, but it appears they’re on course to be do-anything instead.]

    They are a seriously reactionary government, both in terms of their goals and the means they are prepared to use to achieve them.

    But they are also an incompetent government and have no credible economic strategy. They will almost certainly come to grief before long.

  60. Thomas. Paine.

    [If you genuinely care about abating AGW, and thing a market pricing mechanism is the most effective way of dealing with it, then for god’s sake, stop fighting the divisive Rudd wars of the past and turn your attention to what the actual federal govt is doing today.]

    If you ever genuinely cared about AGW then you would have been totally disgustd with Gillard’s CA. But I recall here that her new supporters had to ignore it altogether or polish it as a good idea…when in fact it was a total cop out and homage to the factional wankers who just installed her.

    Remember it was Swan and Gillard that threatened trouble for Rudd if he didn’t shelve the CPRS, then promptly leaked it when the got him to do it. She was on the road to serving her masters then AGW action was out the door….. until of course with the Greens with BOP.. they had zero choice but to have a policy. Too funny.

    And it is you the one that wants to fight the wars….every time you find it necessary to slag Rudd, because of Gillard’s failure, and the only way you seem to be able to legitimise her.

    Labor wont learn, just listen to a few of their hacks here, and wannabe MPs…. the same as the morons who started the Labaor destruction by thinking democracy and the public were irrelvent scum, and backstabbed a PM they just chose, and who just saved tens of thousands of jobs…. well done.

    Labor has learned nothing, the factional wankers are still more interested in their personal power, and their hacks dance to that tune only.

  61. briefly

    2223….seriously over-cooked spite: dessicated, encrusted hate.

  62. deblonay

    Re AMTRAK in the USA
    ___________
    Oddly it’s …like much else.in the US .connected with ideology and is political

    The real Repunants and the Tea Party hate AMTRAK…as it’s a state run corporation and therefore…”socialism”

    Only in America could a train service be so called….In Japan or Germany or India or Canada that would be seen as lunatic( but in Victoria Kennnet hated railways as did Thatcher)
    and in the USA the private companies…who still own the tracks…abandonded passsenger rail in the 70ies and AMTRAK was created …thanks to Pres Carter out of the ruins of the old services…and slowly modernised….today they carry more than 32 millions passengers a year with only a small amount of Federal funding,,,less than$2million p.a..they give more to the Egyptian army

    One Repub maddie recently wanted to save by closing down much of the catering for food…on long journeys ????
    bring a sandwich for a three day trip ???

    The attendents are all union men and privately have interesting comments to make…the best Americans are great people

    I once went to an anti-war demo in San Fransisco…and a dear.. very elderly lady.. told me that they always sang an old Woody Guthrie song”This land is My Land” and”Solidarity Forever”at the demo
    …”we never sing that”God Bless America ” crap..she said

  63. briefly

    http://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/michael-spence-explains-why–secular-stagnation–is-not-a-problem-that-the-us-and-other-advanced-economies-should-try-to-solve

    Focused on the US, but very pertinent also to Australia, especially the note that..

    [Employment remains low and is lagging GDP growth, a pattern that began at least three recessions ago and that has become more pronounced with each recovery. In most advanced economies, the tradable sector has generated very limited job growth – a problem that, until 2008, domestic demand “solved” by employing lots of people in the non-tradable sector (government, health care, construction, and retail).

    Meanwhile, the adverse trends in income distribution both preceded the crisis and have survived it. In the US, the gap between the mean (per capita) income and the median income has grown to more than $20,000. The income gains from GDP growth have been mostly concentrated in the upper quartile of the distribution.]

    In this country there is a similar, widening gap between median and mean household incomes. The wealthy are doing better than ever, while the rest are going nowhere.

  64. deblonay

    Briefly re Hillary’s donors
    ___________
    As Phephos rather frankly said Hillary will do well from the Jewish Lobby which will deluge her with money as they did in her earlier run for the NY senate seat
    They pay up and get what they want

    Great wealth buys great power for the Lobby

    Not much hope for the poor Palestinins there

    http://forward.com/articles/9915/hillary-the-favorite-in-race-for-jewish-donations/

  65. Just Me

    [2141
    pedant

    William, would it be possible to set up, and keep permanently open, a thread where all Rudd/Gillard partisan brawling would have to be placed, so that the many others here who find it as boring as bat droppings could be saved from the RSI in our mouse fingers to which it gives rise?]

    Seconded.

  66. briefly

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/01/24/us-usa-prisons-sexabuse-

    [Half of U.S. prison sex crimes involve staff toward inmates: fed study]

    certainly something to think about…the link between sexual violence and the exercise of power in prisons.

  67. briefly

    [2229….Just Me]

    Yup. Labor’s power struggle is over. The question now is how much destruction the LNP will cause before they are thrown out of office.

  68. deblonay

    Briefly 2228…
    ________________
    You are quite right re poverty and joblessness in the USA
    We travel there a lot and travel widely by train a great way to see the country…but I feel that the increase in dire poverty…unlike anything here…is markled and seen in little towns in many places..and the Deep South is almost 3rd world in places

    We took a 2 day trip from NY to New Orleans by AMTRAK and in much of the deep south the poverty is palpable

    One of my sons who was with us… drove us into the “bayous ” the huge swamplands on the delta of the Mississippi…the little all-black towns were desperately poor..and in some “poor whites” live in a different part of town to the blacks
    Health and educ standards are very low

    We stopped for the night at a small motel which seemed safe…and when asked about our accents the lady on the desk asked us if we we drove from Australia ?????????

    we were speechless(not common in my family)
    We also spent a night nearby at a great old”Gone with the Wind ” style mansion…ate great deep southern food and slept in a great curtained bed(but no slaves to attended to us !)

  69. deblonay

    Briefly addendum

    __________
    Re Southern food some very good..much spicy cajun food and lovely seafoods…great catsfish roe like Trama..and much good baking..and fruit pies…and seafood pies too ..
    and a wonderful spicy soup called Chicken Gumbo..best eaten in Noo Orleeens
    I have a US grandson who can say that just so..and who is desparing of his Ozzie grandparents who”speak funny”despite all his efforts to teach us to say”Tomaaaaatoes”

  70. briefly

    deblonay, I’ve never had the chance to visit the US, but hope to one day. My family have all been more than once and their accounts tally with yours.

  71. Otiose

    05:12:00 26/01/2014 ——- Nett_NEWS++™ http://bit.ly/1aQcqOy

  72. silentmajority

    Reading up after I came home from work last night.

    I had heard of Catallaxy (sic, but who cares anyway) so I went for a looksee.
    They’re in absolute meltdown. The standard of behaviour is appalling. All encouraged. Gun nuts & the like hurling abuse at Adam Gilchrist for daring to select an Aboriginal man as Australian of the year. Describing Goodes as either a crybaby or a bully for pointing out a girl who called him an ape.
    Truly tea party shyte Australian style.
    The banner is a flag with est 1788 as you’d expect.
    A bunch of keyboard cowards who wouldn’t dare say this stuff to Gilchrist’s or Goodes’ faces. Goodes has put up with this crap all his life. He deserves this award for that alone.

    If that is LNP thinking then I know I’m on the right side, The Left.

    And, now is again the right time to thank our Perth based but otherwise reputable benevolent dictator for a SANE forum to discuss all things psephological. Sure, there are shytefights here but the truth is, this is the place to come to get distilled, quality information, quickly. Remember Utegate? The facts were in on the Friday night. Supplied by collective Bludgers who ran all the scenarios & came to the correct conclusion. At the same time our miserable MSM stumbled around accidentally( or on purpose) for three days trying to get milage out of it. The likes of catallaxy howled for Rudd’s & Swan’s heads and ended up with egg on faces.

  73. BK

    Good morning Dawn Patrollers.
    Through gritted teeth the Liberals would have made this announcement. The work would have beeb started ages ago. Will it continue under this regime?
    http://www.smh.com.au/national/australian-tax-office-nets-430m-from-the-rich-20140125-31fra.html
    Our own Senator Connie.
    http://www.smh.com.au/national/speaking-english-an-obligation-senator-fierravanti-wells-20140125-31ffw.html
    Bianca Hall has an interesting proposition regarding NSW “drunken punch” legislation.
    http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-opinion/new-laws-will-also-hit-domestic-violence-20140125-31f9i.html
    Sledging for sure! What will Morriscum say? It’s a waste of time asking the invisible, mute Johnston.
    http://www.smh.com.au/national/navy-examines-staff-links-to-racist-group-20140125-31fbr.html

  74. BK

    And from the Land of the Free –

    A win for ObamaCare in Missouri.
    http://thepoliticalcarnival.net/2014/01/24/obamacare-supporters-score-legal-victory-missouri-overall-enrollment-rises/
    A good example of how anti-abortion legislation can get it so wrong. At least one judge thinks so.
    http://crooksandliars.com/2014/01/us-judge-orders-pregnant-woman-taken-life
    Here we go again! Another senseless shooting in a public place.
    http://crooksandliars.com/2014/01/active-shooter-maryland-mall
    Is it any wonder?
    http://crooksandliars.com/2014/01/crazy-paul-broun-offers-free-ar-15
    And how’s this for Republican ratbaggery?
    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/01/23/1271931/-North-Carolina-senate-candidate-Greg-Brannon-led-crackpot-conspiracy-peddling-website
    Is this the next “stand your ground” case? The Yong Turks.
    http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017171608
    Hmm? ” Bill Maher is getting tired of conservatives touting their masculinity while dismissing liberals as p***ies and p***es, and in his show-ending New Rule Friday night, he said that Democrats need to stop letting Republicans claim that “they’ve got the big balls” because, as Maher put it, being a bully is not a real masculine value. ”
    http://www.mediaite.com/tv/bill-maher-rips-the-%E2%80%98bluster%E2%80%99-on-the-right-%E2%80%98bullying-isn%E2%80%99t-a-masculine-virtue%E2%80%99/

  75. pom

    Landed in this great land this day in 1969.
    Never regretted it for one moment.

  76. Henry

    Have a great Oz day all.
    Sam Kekovich has decreed we must eat lamb today so a lamb roast it will be.
    Spare a thought for our indigenous brothers and sisters, for many it won’t be a great day.

  77. Henry

    Our family landed in this great land pom in 1971 (from ireland).
    I thank the flying spaghetti monster daily that my parents had the foresight and courage to do so -it could have been the US or Canada as they had relations there too.
    We have a lot of challenges in this country (not the least having a fool for pm) but it’s still the best country in the world.

  78. poroti

    BK

    [Hmm? ” Bill Maher is getting tired of conservatives touting their masculinity ]

    One for our resident armchair generals.

  79. zoomster

    Fierravanti-Wells arguing that migrants should not just learn to speak English, they should speak it as their main language.

    If that’s not batsh*t crazy enough to start with, here is her reasoning —

    [The importance of this, she said, was underlined by the experience of ageing postwar migrants, many of whom were suffering dementia and forgetting conversational English.]

    Apparently F-W believes that if they’d been chatting away in English all day and every day this wouldn’t happen.

    But, of course, many of those who revert to their native tongue when senility sets it were speaking English as their major language, but their brain sees the first language they learnt as a sort of default setting.

    As the good Senator herself did not speak English at all until she went to kindergarten, it is quite likely that should she become a dementia sufferer (— no jokes, please) she’ll find herself in exactly the same situation.

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/national/speaking-english-an-obligation-senator-fierravanti-wells-20140125-31ffw.html#ixzz2rRrMPkaT

  80. zoomster

    Diog

    Er, there was no contradiction between having a Citizens Assembly and introducing a carbon price. Gillard made it clear on several occasions that she intended to both.

    Gillard had enough faith in the average Australian to believe that if the facts were put before them they would come to the correct decision – but she also made it clear that if they didn’t, she’d price carbon anyway.

  81. Fran Barlow

    Just Me

    [William, would it be possible to set up, and keep permanently open, a thread where all Rudd/Gillard partisan brawling would have to be placed]

    AIUI threads in this place are never closed, so the devotees of the R/G stoush could pick one where it went on until the thread was abandoned and post all their stuff there. I suspect their point is that they are keen on others seeing it.

    On the “carbon tax” and Gillard … I have been prominent defending her against what may be called the “juliar” slander. As people here rightly say, she never promised to abandon carbon pricing — which was the substantive part of the complaint rather than the specific form. Had she done so at the time, that would have been all over the news, five days before the election. Nor can the CEF package fairly be called “a carbon tax” even allowing for its fixed price permit component. I’ve argued this in detail any number of times and won’t recapitulate it here.

    Gillard’s error was explicitly allowing others to so name it rather than clarifying. This was similar to her mistake of 16/8/10 in mentioning “carbon tax” at all, because in both cases, as with the IMA issue, she was pandering to RW populist opinion. Her silliness over CA and Cash for Clunkers were in the same vein, as with the East Timor solution, and butchering the mining tax and swearing against deficit budgets and so forth.

    Her errors were almost all the consequence of clumsy ad hoc attempts to assuage RW populist opinion, in circumstances where this merely politically loaded up the said opinion, making her look weak and shifty.

    We really ought to abandon the silly R/G argy barge, but we should learn our lessons.

  82. Fran Barlow

    Oops … argy bargy #DYAC

    While I’m tidying up …

    Someone yesterday — Frednk I think — asked about my initialism, MBCM. I’ve coined this to stand for “Mass Broadcast Commercial Media”.

  83. poroti

    Fran Barlow

    I think Just Me is right. I propose we call it the Lt Hiroo Onada Memorial Blog.

  84. frednk

    [
    Psephos
    Posted Saturday, January 25, 2014 at 11:39 pm | Permalink

    I have friends who come from Iran and they have family and friends there.

    So do I. That doesn’t alter the fact that the Tehran regime is one of the world centres of evil and will have to be dealt with eventually.
    ]
    I suppose the question is; will there be enough enough to join you in your third crusade? The Europeans seem to have lost there apatite for such things.

  85. Fran Barlow

    Henry

    [Sam Kekovich has decreed we must eat lamb today so a lamb roast it will be.
    Spare a thought for our indigenous brothers and sisters, for many it won’t be a great day.]

    I know it’s meant to be parody, along the lines of Roy & HG, but I find it tiresome and offensive. Indeed, I’m not sure it isn’t counterproductive for them. I reacted viscerally when I saw him “dealing” lamb to small children wearing T-shirts with “vegans and proud” on it.

    One day, official Australianism will say something more nuanced than being an oafish reactionary macho man. One can dream.

  86. himi

    poroti@2248

    Fran Barlow

    I think Just Me is right. I propose we call it the Lt Hiroo Onada Memorial Blog.

    Maybe it could be initiated on the day of the Griffith by-election – a fitting end point for the whole saga.

    himi

  87. zoomster

    himi

    don’t want to reignite things, but a quick (and obviously not wholistic) answer to your repeated question is the one given by Andrew Elder — Gillard didn’t pander to the media. She didn’t leak to them. She didn’t confide her plans to them. She didn’t ‘owe’ her position to them.

    Combine that with an attack of the guilts on the media’s part at their role in deposing Rudd (“Gee, we were only playing. We didn’t expect anyone would get hurt.”) and the threat that the NBN and reduced government advertising put to their jobs, and the reason for the media’s stance from 2010 on is clear.

  88. Boerwar

    BK

    Noting:

    (1) the thousands of accusations of violence by ADF members against other ADF members
    (2) the latest revelations about serving defence force members being members also of the ADL which is associated with calls for violence against muslims
    (3)the decades-long demonisation/dehumanisation of asylum seekers by the Liberals (they are illegals, they throw children into the water)
    (4)that the Government has granted immunity to Operation Sovereign Borders staff, potentially giving criminals a free pass out of jail…

    …I wonder whether Griggs, Morrison and Abbott will now publicly admit that it is at least possible that Navy personnel assaulted asylum seekers and that an investigation should be launched into how ten asylum seekers received burns and bruises?

  89. Kirky

    For the love of god, can we please stop the KR/JG crap. It is nauseating and a waste of space.

    All energies must be to rid this country of the fool we have currently as PM.

    Went onto that right wing website Catallaxy. What is wrong with these people, why are the right so vitriol towards others – is it there DNA?

    Now can someone please provide three social reforms over the past 40 years the Coalition has introduced.

  90. Bar Bar

    One aspect of the Julia disaster rarely mentioned:

    The night she was sworn in Christine Wallace who had been in her office for weeks researching her autobiography was interviewed on Sky and later ABC, backed up by Cheryl Kernot and giggled and gurgled that Tony Abbott would never be an effective Opposition Leader against her ….

    because he was IN LOVE with her.

    Given this was obviously the meme in Julia’s office and probably Julia’s own opinion, it was then I knew Labor was done for.

    btw Within 6 months or so Wallace had abandoned the autobiography and Julia’s COS had left the office.

  91. Boerwar

    Rudd/G?

    Meh. We got rid of one rotten apple. One to go. IMHO it is better to focus on the one on hand.

    But I do acknowledge that one of the things that rotten apples excel at is causing shit on the liver.

    Our current bad apple is causing wholesale shit on the liver all the way from Jakarta through Beijing to Geneva.

  92. Bar Bar

    Sorry – that should be biography of course.

  93. frednk

    [Kirky
    Posted Sunday, January 26, 2014 at 9:08 am | Permalink


    Now can someone please provide three social reforms over the past 40 years the Coalition has introduced.
    ]
    I was once of the view, Labor did social reform, the Liberals economic reform.

    A more interesting challenge is to provide three worthwhile economic reforms introduced by the Liberals over the last 40 years. If you can’t come up with a list then the Liberals are nothin gmore than space holders while Labor regroup (get over the Rudd/Gillard thing for example).

  94. Boerwar

    Iran?

    Yeah. Let’s invade it.

    But I am getting sooooooooooo weary of us hanging grimly on the coat tails of Uncle Sam, invading evil empires, wrecking the joint, displacing millions of people, spending a trillion dollars – most of which goes into the pockets of corrupt cronies and defence companies – then retreating before any sort of stability can be assured, thereby leaving the natives to destroy each other some more, the state in ruins, and then bagging the lefties for the whole damn mess.

  95. Boerwar

    The nice thing is that it does not matter what Australians think and that a recent PEW poll found that 52% of Americans are sick of it as well.

  96. BK

    Boerwar @ 2253
    Yes, just wondering . . .

  97. guytaur

    On the Rudd Gilllard thing.

    Both did great things. The very first thing to learn from te mistakes of that period is disunity truly is death.

    Labor under both PM’s made mistakes. I have no doubt under previous administrations to use an American term those mistakes would not have been fatal. This time however Murdoch was out for blood. The only period close to what we experienced is the coverage Whitlam received.

    This started the day Howard was defeated. So do yourselves a favour. Learn the lessons of mistakes but do not forget to learn the lessons of success.

  98. himi

    zoomster@2252

    himi

    don’t want to reignite things, but a quick (and obviously not wholistic) answer to your repeated question is the one given by Andrew Elder — Gillard didn’t pander to the media. She didn’t leak to them. She didn’t confide her plans to them. She didn’t ‘owe’ her position to them.

    Combine that with an attack of the guilts on the media’s part at their role in deposing Rudd (“Gee, we were only playing. We didn’t expect anyone would get hurt.”) and the threat that the NBN and reduced government advertising put to their jobs, and the reason for the media’s stance from 2010 on is clear.

    Thank you. That does go a long way towards explaining the media’s rejection of her. And of course in the chamber of mirrors that is the current media environment it wouldn’t take long for an initial period of something along the lines of “well, if you’re going to treat us like that, we’ll make /your/ life difficult” to become a self-sustaining cycle.

    I’m still a bit lost about the reaction of some Labor people, but that’s probably something for the (possibly) upcoming Memorial Thread.

    himi

  99. Jolyon Wagg

    Pom

    [Landed in this great land this day in 1969.
    Never regretted it for one moment.]

    103 days ahead of me. The only time I regretted it was when I was caned at primary school. Before that the most extreme punishment I had received was a light open handed slap on the backside.

  100. Steve777

    Someone yesterday — Frednk I think — asked about my initialism, MBCM. I’ve coined this to stand for “Mass Broadcast Commercial Media”.

    Thank you. It was me.

  101. Boerwar

    Those stories about Japanese ‘fighting on’ because they did not know the war had finished are simply not credible.

    But it suits them as individuals and it suits the militarists in Japan Japanese Government to pretend that they were continuing to hold out against the might of the US.

    Here’s why it just does not add up:

    (1) The Philippines jungles are not people-friendly at all. They could not possibly exist for decades without getting regular food, shelter, medicines and new clothes from other people.
    (2) The hold-outs either had regular contact with, or lived with other people.
    (3) Those other people had regular access to the outside world. Even the most remote Philippines mountain village has/had regular trade connections with lowlanders.
    (4) Those people would have known perfectly well that the Pacific War had ended.
    (5) Not one of Japanese hold outs took their weapons out and shot them off at the enemy.

  102. Bar Bar

    Julia’s major problem, imo, was that she did not present herself from the outset as a woman of substance: aka Angela Merkel or Helen Clarke.

    That Womans Weekly makeover turning her into a 30 something air head when added to belief that Tony Abbott was in lover with her, did not help.

    By the time attempts were made to rectify the image problem, it was too late.

  103. confessions

    Morning all.

    A dedicated Rudd/Gillard rehash thread? What a frickin great idea!

    We could name it The Events of 2010 Revisited, and all those who feel like going through it all once wasn’t enough can continue to do it again and again and again.

    A fabulous idea.

  104. confessions

    Yesterday The West trumpeted Barnett’s shark cull plan as commencing this weekend. But in what is now the govt’s trademark vacillation with this plan, it appears there is confusion about just where the drums will be located. More ‘clarifying’ to come from the govt, I would imagine.
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-01-25/shark-drumlines/5218934?section=wa

    This is what happens when you offer ill-thought-out populist ‘solutions’ in a bid to quell media hysteria.

  105. Steve Clements

    Fran @ 2250 re the lamb ads by Sam Kekovich. He’s a very, very bright man, as you are probably aware. Much like Brent Croswell (of the same era), who is an incredibly eloquent man and prolific author.

    Like you, though, I feel a little uneasy when seeing “Keka” dumbing himself down and appealing to the redneck lowest common denominator.

    Clever ads, though.

  106. Steve777

    I don’t remember hearing that Tony Abbott was ‘in love’ with Julia Gillard. If that was ever the case his ardour had pretty much been extinguished by the time she became PM. I do remember that Julia Gillard and Tony Abbott used to appear on an early morning commercial TV ‘news’ programs (which I don’t watch so never saw) and some commented that they sometimes seemed to be flirting.

    I also remember that Kevin Rudd and Joe Hockey used to appear on morning commercial TV together, although no one said anything about flirting as far as I know.

  107. Henry

    “I know it’s meant to be parody, along the lines of Roy & HG, but I find it tiresome and offensive. Indeed, I’m not sure it isn’t counterproductive for them. I reacted viscerally when I saw him “dealing” lamb to small children wearing T-shirts with “vegans and proud” on it.

    One day, official Australianism will say something more nuanced than being an oafish reactionary macho man. One can dream.”

    Fran, sure it’s jingoistic cobblers but it’s good marketing.
    Besides, it’s not that macho is it? It is lamb we are talking about 😉

  108. Fran Barlow

    Kirkby

    [Went onto that right wing website Catallaxy. What is wrong with these people, why are the right so vitriolic towards others – is it in their DNA? {some corrections made for tidiness}]

    To be fair, I don’t agree that high dudgeon and bloviating angst is exclusive to the right. When people of the left and the centre get antsy about some wrong, real or imagined, a centre or lefty version of the tone will often ensue. I can recall my own engagement with others between November of 1975 and the defeat of Fraser in 1983, and you’d not have needed too much imagination to provoke me into a hectoring, point by point assault on the perfidy of the leading apologists for “the coup” of 1975. Even now, my stomach knots a little just recalling it. I conceded nothing to today’s crop of folk on the right obsessing about carbon taxes or amongst the ALP obsessing about R/G.

    It seems to me that there lurks in most of us humans an inclination to get very loud and very personal when one imagines one sees palpably offensive things apparently going unremedied.

    It’s not helpful of course, either to the advocate or the cause. There are far more constructive ways of working out one’s issues, even if it is a case of “accepting the things one cannot change” along with “the courage to change the things that I can” and “the wisdom to know the difference”.

    We humans live with a constant paradox. The idea of “progress” entails a vision of the ideal, of perfection. Unless one doesn’t mind sinking into torpor and apathy and becoming a sad sack who realises too late that his/her life has had no purpose, one must embrace the ideal. Of course, in practice, the more closely one approaches the ideal, the easier it is to see its flaws, because by definition, our process in approaching it has refined and developed our insight. Accordingly, we should accept that in practice, the ideal is unattainable, and would be, even allowing that all others shared our vision of it. We dare not give up the journey, but we dare not warrant the journey by the assertion that we will arrive and stop there. Rather, we warrant it by the confidence that all humanity is improved by the process of specifying and approaching the ideal.

    And accordingly, we ought to be slow to damn others about us who seem to be on the wrong path, or dawdling or distracted by unicorns. Rather than abuse, we really ought to explain patiently to them our vision of the ideal and the way forward, and if we cannot manage that, or see no purpose in it, then remain quiet and focus on our own progress along the way, lest we duplicate their errors.

  109. confessions

    Steve777:

    I remember watching once or twice Gillard and Abbott on that breakfast show. If anything I thought Abbott was more daunted by her rather than anything else.

  110. poroti

    Boerwar

    This from Onada after his “surrender” makes him very apt for the R/G biff blog.

    [“I felt like a fool,” he later wrote. “What had I been doing all these years?”]

    No wonder the revisionists loved him.

    [Onoda found common cause with ultra-conservatives who denied Japan was an aggressor and said it had no choice but to attack the rest of Asia. He bitterly blamed “left-wing propaganda” for promoting war guilt in Japanese schools.]
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/hiroo-onoda-the-last-japanese-soldier-to-give-himself-in-when-i-surrendered-the-past-seemed-like-a-dream-9068009.html

  111. Bar Bar

    Steve777 – ironically if Tony Abbott had been in love with her it would have been precisely because she was a woman of substance.
    That WW spread framing her image just before an election was a gift for him.

  112. poroti

    confessions

    [We could name it The Events of 2010 Revisited]
    Groundhog Day would be a good name.

  113. briefly

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-01-25/hollande-splits-from-partner-trierweiler-elysee-palace-confirms.html

    [….Celebrity magazine Closer ran a photo spread in its Jan. 10 edition purportedly showing Hollande, 59, as he arrived on a scooter at an apartment around the corner from his office for a liaison with actress Julie Gayet, 41.

    ….Le Parisien reported that Trierweiler had moved back into the Paris apartment the couple shared before Hollande won the presidency in 2012.

    The French president’s approval rating has gained since news of the affair broke, rising to 31 percent from 27 percent at the start of the month, according to a BVA poll for France Inter radio and L’Express magazine published this week. A Jan. 15 Ifop poll showed that 77 percent of respondents believed Hollande’s affair was a private matter.]

    Quite amusing really….Les President riding on a scooter to visit his amour…popularity improves, suggesting the French approve of romance of any flavour.

  114. guytaur

    Regarding media coverage. The first example that sticks in my mind was the attacks on Cate Blanchett and Michael Caton for daring to appear in a climate change advertisement.

  115. Henry

    I always thought Abbott was intimidated by JG’s strength and intellect.
    Blokes like that IMO respond to these JG type of women with bellicose aggression, as if they can reassure themselves of the “natural” order of things and prove their manliness by attempting to best the female in question.
    It’s insecurity really.

  116. Henry

    …or small dick syndrome…

  117. confessions

    briefly:

    I do feel sorry for Trierweiler. Dealing with a partner’s betrayal is bad enough without the added humiliation of the publicness of it all.

  118. victoria

    Morning

    Been catching up on yesterday’s contributions.

    Thanks to BB for his excellent posts re how the media behaved re JG
    And to Boerwar for his dissection of Sheridan et al re the Indonesian situation re asylum seekers and our borders. Nothing reported in our msm comes close to these incisive observations.

    Thanks guys!!

  119. briefly

    [2273…Fran Barlow]

    The path by which the red and the green become grey.

  120. AussieAchmed

    Westpac’s Head of Migrant Banking, Jennifer West, is keen to encourage immigrants to stay in Australia because of the financial and cultural benefit they provide to Australia.

    Research by Westpac on new Australians, released to coincide with Australia Day, reveals migrants contribute $200 billion to the Australian economy annually and almost one quarter are in jobs earning $70,000 or more.
    ========================================

    I’m sure some right wing racist red neck xenophobe will find something evil about this snippet of info.

  121. briefly

    [2282
    confessions

    briefly:

    I do feel sorry for Trierweiler. Dealing with a partner’s betrayal is bad enough without the added humiliation of the publicness of it all.]

    Me too, confessions. On the upside, she’s now liberated from one the most tedious of men.

  122. briefly

    [2285
    AussieAchmed

    Westpac’s Head of Migrant Banking, Jennifer West, is keen to encourage immigrants to stay in Australia because of the financial and cultural benefit they provide to Australia.

    Research by Westpac on new Australians, released to coincide with Australia Day, reveals migrants contribute $200 billion to the Australian economy annually and almost one quarter are in jobs earning $70,000 or more.]

    About one-eighth of the economy…nothing to sneeze at.

  123. confessions

    victoria:

    I have missed BB’s comments here.

  124. Steve777

    Re Guytaur @2279: Regarding media coverage. The first example that sticks in my mind was the attacks on Cate Blanchett and Michael Caton for daring to appear in a climate change advertisement.

    Mostly by the purported champions of free speech.

  125. poroti

    The Coalition’s Australia will suit this guy.

    [British banker living in Singapore who provoked fury by ridiculing poor people has ‘parted ways with his company and has gone to Australia’

    Mr Casey, who is married to a former Miss Singapore winner, erupted when he posted a picture on Facebook of his young son sitting on a train with the caption: ‘Daddy, where is your car and who are all these poor people?’

    A second photo showed his son sitting in his Porsche alongside the comment: ‘Ahhhhhhh reunited with my baby. Normal service can resume, once I have washed the stench of public transport off me.’

    He also branded a taxi driver a ‘retard’ for wearing mittens in hot weather and remarks: ‘After 11 years residency, I am still trying to understand these people]

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2545824/Anton-Casey-British-banker-living-Singapore-provoked-fury-ridiculing-poor-people-parted-ways-company-gone-Australia.html

  126. Fran Barlow

    Briefly

    [The path by which the red and the green become grey.]

    Or interwoven until they seem as if they should always part of a coherent pattern. As a child, I was a South Sydney supporter. I fancied at the time that I was merely doing this to annoy my great grandfather, who was keen on Balmain, but perhaps it was thematic. 🙂

  127. victoria

    confessions

    They were comments made sometime during yesterday. You have to go back several pages

  128. bemused

    pom@2239

    Landed in this great land this day in 1969.
    Never regretted it for one moment.

    I will put you to a severe test.

    Which cricket team do you support? 😆

    More seriously, thanks for your sentiments. Migration is making Australia a much more interesting and exciting place.

  129. confessions

    [Peter Brent ‏@mumbletwits 6m
    If you see a Libertarian today, walk over and say “hi”. Reach out, for they are our brothers and sisters.]

    Am assuming this is a little dig at Cattalaxy’s meltdown over AOTY.

  130. bemused

    zoomster@2252

    himi

    don’t want to reignite things, but a quick (and obviously not wholistic) answer to your repeated question is the one given by Andrew Elder…

    Is that the same Andrew Elder who repeatedly told us Tony Abbott would never be Prime Minister?

  131. lizzie

    bemused

    I remember when I was being “farewelled” before leaving England, the headmaster’s final message was “Just promise that you’ll never support Australia in the Ashes.” He was a keen cricket fan.

    I felt a little torn for a few years, but am firmly on the side of the Aussies now.

  132. WeWantPaul

    I am vegetarian and have never even tasted lamb but the ads are funny more parody than anything.

  133. guytaur

    How about a week of Rudd supporters saying positive things about Gillard and Gillard supporters about Rudd?

  134. bemused

    confessions@2268

    Morning all.

    A dedicated Rudd/Gillard rehash thread? What a frickin great idea!

    We could name it The Events of 2010 Revisited, and all those who feel like going through it all once wasn’t enough can continue to do it again and again and again.

    A fabulous idea.

    So you will be leaving us for that thread?
    I bid you farewell. 😆

  135. WeWantPaul

    [Is that the same Andrew Elder who repeatedly told us Tony Abbott would never be Prime Minister?
    ]

    Overestimating the Australian voter isn’t a major crime unless you are the campaigns ad person.

  136. confessions

    guytaur:

    Better to just ignore the baiting from Ruddists.

  137. bemused

    Steve Clements@2270

    Fran @ 2250 re the lamb ads by Sam Kekovich. He’s a very, very bright man, as you are probably aware. Much like Brent Croswell (of the same era), who is an incredibly eloquent man and prolific author.

    Like you, though, I feel a little uneasy when seeing “Keka” dumbing himself down and appealing to the redneck lowest common denominator.

    Clever ads, though.

    I think they were initially very funny and highly effective.

    But now they are just too much and I just switch off.

  138. Steve777

    The campaign against Cate Blanchett for her advocacy of effective action on Climate Change was a disgrace. It exhibited all of the worst aspects of the Murdoch media’s abuse of their power (and abuse of the craft of journalism for that matter).

    “CATE Blanchett has sparked outrage in the community with her decision to front an ad campaign promoting the federal government’s controversial carbon tax.” http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/carbon-cate-blanchett-tells-aussies-to-pay-up-over-carbon-charge/story-e6freuy9-1226064698983

    Typical Murdoch crap. Who was ‘outraged’ before the usual shills set out to orchestrate it. They were sending a clear message to high profile public figures – oppose us at your peril.

    Of course, Murdoch media normally approve of rich people.
    They had no problem with other rich people saying that Australia workers’ wages were too high or that the GST should be increased.

    P.S. shortly after Cate Blanchett’s contribution, Dame Elizabeth Murdoch (Ruper’s mother, now deceased) expressed support for action to mitigate climate chnage. There were no thundering condemnations from Piers Ackerman et al.

  139. briefly

    [2299…bemused]

    And this would qualify as the opening entry in the thread.

  140. confessions

    The Murdoch press also published photos of Blanchett’s home mocking the solar panels on her roof.

    Yes, it really was a disgraceful campaign against her.

  141. AussieAchmed

    As I prepare for the day ahead, my thoughts turned to the current government and disturbed my feelings of gladness of having the opportunity to live in this great country.

    Why the hell have we elected a government that puts profit (surplus) ahead of the care of its vulnerable citizens?

    Why the hell have we elected a government that cares more for corporate and individual wealthy than the most needy in not only our own community but also the world community?

    What the fcuk is wrong with these people?

    I see the next 3 years (minus just over 100 days) as a time when we will see the social divide widen, a period when we will see the wealth of the few increase while the remainder slip further in poverty.

    My thoughts have put a dampener on my celebrations.

  142. bemused

    lizzie@2296

    bemused

    I remember when I was being “farewelled” before leaving England, the headmaster’s final message was “Just promise that you’ll never support Australia in the Ashes.” He was a keen cricket fan.

    I felt a little torn for a few years, but am firmly on the side of the Aussies now.

    The important thing is not to get too intense about it.

    Of course I support Australia, but I just love the Barmy Army and all the colour and movement they add to the cricket.

    I always enjoy a bit of good hearted banter with a Pom about the cricket or a Kiwi about the Rugby.

  143. bemused

    guytaur@2298

    How about a week of Rudd supporters saying positive things about Gillard and Gillard supporters about Rudd?

    you want a week of silence from Rudd supporters and lies from Gillard supporters?

    No thanks. 👿

  144. bemused

    WeWantPaul@2300


    Is that the same Andrew Elder who repeatedly told us Tony Abbott would never be Prime Minister?


    Overestimating the Australian voter isn’t a major crime unless you are the campaigns ad person.

    It does tend to dent ones credibility.

  145. Bushfire Bill

    [On the “carbon tax” and Gillard … I have been prominent defending her against what may be called the “juliar” slander. As people here rightly say, she never promised to abandon carbon pricing — which was the substantive part of the complaint rather than the specific form. Had she done so at the time, that would have been all over the news, five days before the election.]

    Of course it’s perfectly arguable that her saying “There will be no Carbon Tax… etc.” LOST her votes, as much as (it is said) it mollified carbon-nervous right-wingers.

    This would entail accepting the proposition that all, or most Australians actually even SAW the interview at the time and then made voting decisions based on it.

    Truth was, hardly anyone saw it at the time it was first aired, and it was so close to the election that hardly anyone would have taken notice of it had they seen it.

    From the hysterical post hoc coverage, you’d think her statement generated some kind of “JFK” moment… where everyone in Australia could remember exactly where they were and what they doing as Gillard uttered the fateful words.

    “I cut my finger peeling the spuds,” said Dulcie Green, housewife, of Chipping Norton. “I was so surprised, then relieved there would be no Carbon Tax under a government she led.”

    Nicholas Westaway, account manager of Hawthorn Victoria, noted, “I was in a cafe, just, y’know, idly watching the TV set in the corner as I sipped my latte. I couldn’t believe I’d heard her say that. And to think I’d been thinking of voting Liberal! I went straight out and filled in a postal vote. No Carbon Tax, and a Labor government? At the time I thought it was an unbeatable combination. Imagine how horrified I was when Gillard said, ‘You can call it a tax if you like…’ on 7.30 (which I also watch every single night).”

    It’s really stupid stuff to think that Gillard “stole” the election by a single interview on a single TV network. But that became the common wisdom as a result of the national hysteria over her every utterance and movement that developed over the ensuing couple of years.

    She was a lightning rod for every grievance and quibble that anyone experienced, or so we were given permission to believe.

    In truth, her mistakes were fairly minor in and of themselves, but in the atmosphere of a hung parliament everything was blown completely out of proportion.

    Remember the countdown to Abbott’s “Plebiscite” motion on the first Rudd anniversary? As Albo pointed out, he never even put it on the notice paper, and never even moved to suspend standing orders (one of his otherwise favourite tricks) to do so. It was all bluff and bullshit, yet the media treated it as if Abbott was the executioner, sharpening his axe for the ritual beheading.

    The media knew there was no way he could move such a motion, but they pandered to their audiences in pretending that he could have.

    It was the same with the prospect of a Double Dissolution in the current parliament. Only a few weeks ago Mark Kenny was still writing absolute garbage about timelines and deadlines as the utterly fanciful Double Dissolution option crept ever closer.

    This, the “Plebiscite” furphy, and a hundred other non-events became grist to the media mill, as they employed Reality TV techniques – hype, fake drama, confected “crises”, approaching doom, phoney suspense and so on – to make-believe molehills were really towering mountains.

    It all added to the continuing sense of impending obliteration of the Labor government, on literally a weekly basis. If it wasn’t Rudd’s footsteps echoing down the corridors of Parliament House, it was one or both of the Independents about to desert the alliance with Labor, or it was a People’s March on Canberra (remember the “Convoy”, and all those hamburger buns – loaves for the multitude – that had to be binned in the little towns along the way?).

    I saw an article yesterday where the statement, “Australians love their Reality TV,” was made. It was part of a critique of how The Biggest Loser had morphed from a fairly simple one-proposition, one-dimensional Reality TV show into one where whole towns “took the challenge”, with – literally – a thousand or so fat townsfolk marching down the street of “Australia’s fattest town” with the hosts, a Body Builder and an Aerobics Queen, at their head, determined to wipe out obesity in Ararat, Victoria.

    Utter and complete crap. Total rubbish. A “People’s Movement” put on for the cameras and for ratings… which was exactly what Australian politics became between mid-2010 and mid-2013.

    Things were said and done simply to get the “contestant” to the next episode. Much of what was promised was completely impossible or impractical (if not downright lies), but each was taken seriously, discussed as if the promises made really meant something, and as if the whole nation had seen them and was discussing the pros and cons as they stacked their dishwashers, or grilled their snags at barbecues Australia-wide.

    “Unity Ticket” was a good example. Turns out we only though Abbott promised the continuation of Gonski. Sadly, it’s not what he thought.

    “Cash For Clunkers” was another.

    There were any number of them – the Customs Free Zone in Northern Australia, the East Timor solution, Plebiscite and No Confidence threats, Gillard about to be arrested for something that did or didn’t happen 20 years ago, Slipper’s perfect ordinary (if somewhat blokeish) tweets leading to a national crisis, also come to mind.

    I lost count of the number of times we were assured “This is the Gillard government’s greatest crisis yet.” Crisis built upon crisis, drama upon drama. The media piled it on… all over things which – other than in a hung parliament, the same hung parliament Tony Abbott vowed he would do “anything” to be in charge of – would otherwise have been dismissed to the page 17 “Today In Politics” column.

    Australians DO like their Reality TV, but one would hope that a line could be drawn somewhere, short of where real “reality” meets fake “Reality”.

    As I predicted a long time ago, the day after the election, the day after the frenzy of voting had been completed, most of the puff went out of the Aussie Politics Reality TV show. It’s always the same with these things: you vote and then you forget about the whole thing after just a day or so. No more hysteria, no more intra-family feuds about who should win and who should get voted off the show. No more fake dramas as a contestant forgets the lyrics of a song, or another loses a heel.

    The trick was to get the Australian public to really believe it was all important. If you can make that one work, you can whip up national madness at call, and sustain it.

    Which is why the pre-conditioning, the bread-and-circuses celebrity obsessions, the phoney scandals about the private lives of C-list models and the “hottest” bachelors they pursue, the faux suspense as the last two remaining contestants hear their sudden-death fate, the tabloid dramas, became so important in inventing enough frenzy to get a complete turkey like Abbott, and his gobbling mates installed as Prime Minister and entourage of official hangers on.

    We were gamed, or perhaps we were game showed.

    The hard heads knew what was happening, but that didn’t make them immune from joining in the fun. Thus, we now find journalists lamenting that Abbott has broken this or that promise, completely ignoring his own description of himself as someone who would say anything to win a point, or an election.

    They worry about his aggression, completely putting from their minds that his entire career has been as resident bovver boy, a hatchet man who does the distasteful things, under protection from those higher up, that others refuse to do.

    Such was the hatred of Gillard that none of this mattered, as long as it got rid of her… as long as it got rid of her as punishment for mostly imaginary slights or mistakes, and if not imaginary, so trivial that under normal conditions they wouldn’t be considered as career threatening.

    Irony of ironies, one of the chief accusations of Gillard was that she refused to play this game. That somehow she was the one at fault for not recognizing the new rules of media coverage. Do we want a Prime Minister who can’t lie, cheat and steal, or say anything to get the reporters off her back? No way! She doesn’t get “The Politics”. Useless as a leader!

    Thus, as always, Abbott stands on top on the heap of corpses and devastated dreams of those who voted for him. He has only made himself look “good” (if that is the word) by doing what he always does: making others look bad.

    It’s a rotten way to run a country, and I fear it’s going to be a rotten country to live in until we get rid of him altogether.

  146. confessions

    Campaign news from Griffith.
    http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/labor-leaves-nothing-to-chance-in-griffith-byelection-20140125-31frq.html

    Reports that no federal Greens MPs have yet campaigned with their candidate.

  147. bemused

    briefly@2304


    2299…bemused


    And this would qualify as the opening entry in the thread.

    If you like, but I will not be following it. I would prefer to leave it to let confessions and others have their raves. 👿

  148. confessions

    Bushfire:

    Well said. As has often been remarked upon, Abbott got the easiest ride from our media of any LOTO I’ve seen.

    Not only do we need to get rid of Abbott, but there needs to be serious re-engineering of our news media. At present it just pushes agendas rather than report on the public interest.

  149. guytaur

    “@mattmoran10news: Congratulations @PaulBongiorno for being awarded an AM! A legend of journalism, a gentleman and wonderful teacher #AustraliaDay”

  150. Acerbic Conehead

    William,

    Tony Abbott is, as he himself admits, no tech-head.

    So, he is totally frustrated that he cannot do a thing about his “Track Record of Success” not being available for all to read on the website you alerted us to yesterday. (Warning: do not dwell too long waiting for the following web-page to load. If you do so, you might become so beguiled, you may even start to imagine there is actual content thereon)

    https://www.liberal.org.au/tony-abbott-track-record-success

    So sing along with Tones as he laments his inability to showcase the multitude of successes he has ramped up, including his Davos Drag and his liberating Epistle to the Free-traders at Ephesus. Cue: “Tracks of my Tears” by Smokey Robinson.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNS6D4hSQdA

    People say it’s the life of the Party
    The internet and blue tooth
    Although I should be laughing loud and hearty
    Deep inside I’m blue
    :- (
    So take a good look for my face
    If only the tech-heads upped the pace
    Ev’n if you look closer, still can’t see my Track
    Record of Success
    :- (
    I need it, need it!
    :- (
    Since the election, my charm’s belly flopped in the pits
    Seeming like I’m such a clown
    Although it may be cute
    A web-page’s no substitute
    Because the lame thing’s always down
    :- (
    So take a good look for my face
    If only the tech-heads upped the pace
    Ev’n if you look closer, still can’t see my Track
    Record of Success
    :- (
    I need it, need it!
    :- (
    Always I’m masquerading
    Hopin’ my image ain’t fadin’
    Just a clown oh yeah
    Since the page went down
    Porkies I can’t make up
    And if I can’t fake up, I’m blue!
    :- (
    So take a good look for my face
    If only the tech-heads upped the pace
    Ev’n if you look closer, still can’t see my Track
    Record of Success

  151. zoomster

    bemused

    how about dealing with Elder’s actual argument, rather than saying that because he got something wrong, he lacks credibility?

    After all, you have admitted being wrong about things on this site – does that mean we should dismiss everything you say?

    Have a go at dealing with the actual points raised, rather than attacking the person making them.

  152. bemused

    guytaur@2315

    “@mattmoran10news: Congratulations @PaulBongiorno for being awarded an AM! A legend of journalism, a gentleman and wonderful teacher #AustraliaDay”

    I remember Paul Bongiorno when he first started out on TV and I didn’t rate him very highly. He seemed a bit too earnest and artificial, as if trying too hard, as I recall. Oh well, that was my impression.

    But he has continually developed throughout his career and I now look forward to his appearances on TV and radio. He has become one of the best and truly deserves his award.

  153. confessions

    guytaur:

    Yes, a deserved award for Bongo.

  154. himi

    bemused@2309

    guytaur@2298

    How about a week of Rudd supporters saying positive things about Gillard and Gillard supporters about Rudd?

    you want a week of silence from Rudd supporters and lies from Gillard supporters?

    No thanks.

    Okay, that’s just plain offensive. As a Gillard supporter I’ve already said positive things about Rudd in this discussion, and the only negative things I’ve said about him were supported by you. So you’ve already been proved not only wrong, but offensively and stupidly wrong.

    You want people to get over this stuff? Maybe you could try getting over it yourself.

    himi

  155. bemused

    zoomster@2317

    bemused

    how about dealing with Elder’s actual argument, rather than saying that because he got something wrong, he lacks credibility?

    After all, you have admitted being wrong about things on this site – does that mean we should dismiss everything you say?

    Have a go at dealing with the actual points raised, rather than attacking the person making them.

    It was his persistent theme.

    Yes, I have on occasions got something wrong and admitted it. Have you ever had that experience?

    Life is too short to read and present my analysis of Elder’s columns.

  156. confessions

    [“We celebrate the nation and the people we have become,” he said in his address to the Australia Day flag raising and citizenship ceremony in Canberra.

    “Today, across our country, we celebrate one of the greatest gifts imaginable – to be an Australian.

    “To the men and women taking the citizenship pledge here today – and to the almost 18,000 taking the pledge around Australia, I say `welcome to the team’.”

    Mr Abbott said 23 million Australians had found unity in diversity, respect in differences and have built a modern nation on the idea that anyone can get ahead provided they are prepared to have a go.]

    All of this of course is undermined by Sen. Fierrvanti-Wells’ comments as reported this morning. I suppose it’s not surprising they’ve played it this way.

  157. bemused

    himi@2320

    bemused@2309

    guytaur@2298


    How about a week of Rudd supporters saying positive things about Gillard and Gillard supporters about Rudd?


    you want a week of silence from Rudd supporters and lies from Gillard supporters?

    No thanks.


    Okay, that’s just plain offensive. As a Gillard supporter I’ve already said positive things about Rudd in this discussion, and the only negative things I’ve said about him were supported by you. So you’ve already been proved not only wrong, but offensively and stupidly wrong.

    You want people to get over this stuff? Maybe you could try getting over it yourself.

    himi

    Sorry himi, I should have added a 😉 as it was not meant to be taken seriously.

  158. zoomster

    bemused

    [Yes, I have on occasions got something wrong and admitted it. Have you ever had that experience?]

    Yes, quite frequently. I apologised to mexicanbeemer for misreading a post yesterday. I believe I do that far more often than you ever do.

    [Life is too short to read and present my analysis of Elder’s columns.]

    Not what you were asked to do.

  159. Just Me

    Fran Barlow @ 2246 and poroti @ 2248

    Ta, but I was just seconding pedant @ 2141.

    [ “@mattmoran10news: Congratulations @PaulBongiorno for being awarded an AM! A legend of journalism, a gentleman and wonderful teacher #AustraliaDay” ]

    Totally deserved. Always respected his work. If only there were more like him.

  160. mari

    Good God or whoever came back on and see the arguments continue re Gillard v Rudd. Fortunately I can see other PBers are also sick of it as well, Please understand they have both left Parliament now and we have a huge threat to Australia with LNP and Abbott in control. Please unite and get rid of him. Off again for a while hope things have altered by the time I come back on

  161. Steve777

    How about a week of Rudd supporters saying positive things about Gillard and Gillard supporters about Rudd?

    Or maybe compromise – everyone say negative things about Tony Abbott instead.

  162. Bushfire Bill

    [Please understand they have both left Parliament now and we have a huge threat to Australia with LNP and Abbott in control. ]

    I don’t think there’s any doubt about who the real enemy is, from either side of the Rudd-Gillard chasm.

  163. bemused

    mari@2326

    Good God or whoever came back on and see the arguments continue re Gillard v Rudd. Fortunately I can see other PBers are also sick of it as well, Please understand they have both left Parliament now and we have a huge threat to Australia with LNP and Abbott in control. Please unite and get rid of him. Off again for a while hope things have altered by the time I come back on

    Why do you raise this again?

  164. Puff, the Magic Dragon.

    Don’t expect me to let misogynists and Rudd sycophants get away with doing to Gillard’s legacy that which they did to her PMship. These are the people who would prefer Abbott as Prime Minister than a female ALP PM. I exempt people from Qld because they are too parochial to know wrong from right.

  165. Diogenes

    [Gillard had enough faith in the average Australian to believe that if the facts were put before them they would come to the correct decision – but she also made it clear that if they didn’t, she’d price carbon anyway.]

    Absolute garbage. She never said she would definitely put a price on carbon.

  166. bemused

    Puff, the Magic Dragon.@2330

    Don’t expect me to let misogynists and Rudd sycophants get away with doing to Gillard’s legacy that which they did to her PMship. These are the people who would prefer Abbott as Prime Minister than a female ALP PM. I exempt people from Qld because they are too parochial to know wrong from right.

    Why is a PM (or any politicians) gender important?
    I judge on ability. I don’t care about gender, it is, or should be, irrelevant.
    Some of the politicians I hold in high regard happen to be female (e.g. Tanya Plibersek, Penny Wong) others happen to be male (e.g. Albo, Andrew Leigh). So what?

    Tony Abbott is, in my opinion, probably the worst human being to become PM since Billy Hughes.

  167. bemused

    Diogenes@2331


    Gillard had enough faith in the average Australian to believe that if the facts were put before them they would come to the correct decision – but she also made it clear that if they didn’t, she’d price carbon anyway.


    Absolute garbage. She never said she would definitely put a price on carbon.

    Who said that Dio?

  168. Greensborough Growler

    Re Rudd/Gillard Leadershit.

    A man and his wife have an argument on their wedding night about how something has been cut or broken. She maintains that it was done with scissors, but he does not believe her. Their argument only intensifies over the years and the bickering is intense. Finally, one day he pushes her into a pond. The woman, even while drowning, has the last word; she reaches two fingers above the water and makes the sign of a pair of scissors.

  169. Diogenes

    Both the Ruddists and Gillardists are intent on rewriting history and will never tire of spouting their propaganda.

    It’s a futile request to ask them to stop.

  170. Puff, the Magic Dragon.

    Julia Gillard has more guts, talent, intelligence, leadership qualities, compassion, drive, work ethic, personal strength and courage in her little finger-nail than both both Rudd and Abbott’s whole bodies put together.

    Neither of them are worthy to pick up the shoe she lost on that lawn, let alone be PM instead of her.

  171. sustainable future

    why it is pointless to ‘debate’ sean or crank

    http://www.alternet.org/education/human-stupidity-destroying-world

    the libs have been masterful in winning the SWUM (stupid white uneducated male) vote. they will fight to destroy public education and remove from the syllabis science, ethics and any form of dialectic analysis, deconstruction or any other method that promotes critical thought

  172. sustainable future

    ‘syllabus’ in fact (typo, not mis-spelling – new keyboard with everything shifted slightly to the left)

  173. poroti

    [Why Julia Gillard didn’t lie about her carbon tax plans before election

    .. in a pre-election interview with The Australian’s Paul Kelly, our Prime Minister said: “I don’t rule out the possibility of legislating a Carbon Pollution Reduction Scheme, a market-based mechanism. I rule out a carbon tax.”]

    http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/why-julia-gillard-didnt-lie-about-her-carbon-tax-plans-before-election/story-e6frerdf-1226421929786

  174. Diogenes

    For anyone listening to the Hottest 100, this is prediction using social media which was very accurate last year.

    http://warmest100.com.au/2013/

  175. Diogenes

    Another thing about cultists, be they Rudd or Gillard, is that there is no level of evidence which can get them to change their minds and it is pointless to try.

  176. Centre

    Puufy

    She listened to the Greens.

    Gone, finished, kaput.

    She was told right here!

  177. confessions

    [Griffith Qld ‏@GriffithElects 2h
    QLD Police has issued advice about the Freedom Day Rally to be held in Brisbane today http://mypolice.qld.gov.au/brisbanecentral/2014/01/20/freedom-day-rally-brisbane/ … ]

    Newman will ban public rallies soon, what’s the bet.

  178. Player One

    Diogenes@2335

    Both the Ruddists and Gillardists are intent on rewriting history and will never tire of spouting their propaganda.

    It’s a futile request to ask them to stop.

    When more of your life is behind you than ahead of you, it naturally seems more important to rewrite history than to change the future.

    Best just leave them to it – time is both a necessary and sufficient remedy for such nonsense.

    Meanwhile, I’m with Boerwar – Australia has recently suffered several tumors on its body politic. Only one remains, but it was always the most malignant, and needs to be removed before it does any more damage.

  179. Centre

    ooohh what a thought, Rudd and Abbott’s bodies put together.

    Poor Ruddy 🙂

  180. confessions

    Dio:

    That is why we need a separate thread for them to thrash away at each other to their hearts’ content.

  181. Puff, the Magic Dragon.

    Centre
    They deserve each other.

  182. guytaur

    “@ASRC1: #Australian of the Year an Indigenous Australian. New Australian of the Year a former #asylum seeker. Says it all. #SurvivalDay #auspol”

  183. Steve777

    Rudd vs Gillard will stop in due course. No one now argues about Costello vs Howard, Keating vs Hawke, Hawke vs Hayden, Howard vs Peackock, Mark Antony vs Gaius Octavius. It can’t go on forever.

  184. Puff, the Magic Dragon.

    Centre
    A strange creature indeed, it would have 2x anus, and zero spine. Maybe a worm with an arske at each end?

  185. zoomster

    Diog

    never much point trying to convince you with evidence, either — you either get abusive or run away.
    ]

  186. Centre

    Puffy

    Do they share the worm?

  187. frednk

    [
    Bar Bar
    Posted Sunday, January 26, 2014 at 10:02 am | Permalink
    .
    have been precisely because she was a woman of substance.
    That WW spread framing her image just before an election was a gift for him.
    ]
    The WW article was an act of stupidity.

  188. Douglas and Milko

    confessions@2322

    “All of this of course is undermined by Sen. Fierrvanti-Wells’ comments as reported this morning. I suppose it’s not surprising they’ve played it this way.”

    The unfortunate thing is that the well-meaning parents who speak poor English at home rather their own language are depriving children of learning a properly constructed grammatical language. Hence, it actually takes the children longer to learn English. Ironically, some of this research was done in the 1960s, looking at how to help the children of migrants do well in Wollongong.

  189. bemused

    confessions@2347

    Dio:

    That is why we need a separate thread for them to thrash away at each other to their hearts’ content.

    Lead the way!

    Hopefully the rest of your cult will follow. 👿

  190. Carey Moore

    [Mark Antony vs Gaius Octavius.]

    Yeah, nobody remembers that one. It’s not like it’s been subject of many a dramatic recreation (including a Shakespearean play) over the last 2000 years. 😛

  191. guytaur

    bemused

    Just as you see confessions as a “cultist” so many see you just from other side.

  192. bemused

    frednk@2355


    Bar Bar
    Posted Sunday, January 26, 2014 at 10:02 am | Permalink
    .
    have been precisely because she was a woman of substance.
    That WW spread framing her image just before an election was a gift for him.


    The WW article was an act of stupidity.

    Was Kevin Rudd responsible for it? 😐

  193. Centre

    Yes, I agree, a separate thread for The Rudd/Gillard wars. Every word gets deleted at exactly each midnight.

  194. Bugler

    Dio,

    Not particularly accurate ATM. If Daft Punk doesn’t get a song in the top 10 I’d be extremely surprised. If Vance Joy get no. 1 for Rip Tide I quit. (Not that I think they’ll pull off a “Thrift Shop” (an alright song played to death by commercial stations))

  195. bemused

    Douglas and Milko@2356

    confessions@2322

    “All of this of course is undermined by Sen. Fierrvanti-Wells’ comments as reported this morning. I suppose it’s not surprising they’ve played it this way.”

    The unfortunate thing is that the well-meaning parents who speak poor English at home rather their own language are depriving children of learning a properly constructed grammatical language. Hence, it actually takes the children longer to learn English. Ironically, some of this research was done in the 1960s, looking at how to help the children of migrants do well in Wollongong.

    That is a truly interesting piece of research you cite there.

    But it poses a dilemma for the parents who are therefore inhibited from practising their English at home.

    So what is the solution?

  196. bemused

    guytaur@2359

    bemused

    Just as you see confessions as a “cultist” so many see you just from other side.

    I am not responsible for the mistakes of others. 😉

  197. Bugler

    Yeah, it’s pretty easy to pick who’s going to be in the top 10, it’s just the order and maybe the actual song. I know none of mine are going to be no. 1. Oh well.

  198. Bar Bar

    I also remember reading at the time that Deputy Prime Minister Gillard’s office used to have “Dress Like a Tory Woman Days” where they all used to turn up, including Julia, wearing pearls.

    Putting that together with doing a WW airhead makeover, and boasting Tony Abbott would be ineffective because he was “ïn love with her” indicated to me an alarming lack of gravitas.

    Irony was that I noticed later Julia used to wear pearls all the time in the hung parliament. Didn’t work then, either.

    The moral of this story is – the best performed political leaders are those who present themselves as who they are, not who spinmeisters imagine “people” might wish them to be – eg Merkel, Clarke. They should have been the role models for Australia’s first female PM.

  199. guytaur

    bemused

    Well you are responsible for your actions. You can start by not referring to people as cultists and arguing a case on its merits.

    In this way you may start a process Adam Goodes refers to as breaking down the silos between people.

  200. lizzie

    Bar Bar

    [Putting that together with doing a WW airhead makeover, and boasting Tony Abbott would be ineffective because he was “ïn love with her” indicated to me an alarming lack of gravitas.]

    I don’t believe that Julia was in control of the “makeover” or the foolishness about Abbott’s flirting. You seem to have been gathering information from a very gossipy source by pretending she was “boasting”.

  201. guytaur

    BBC World has a special on now about Davos.

    Us Representative on panel is Senator John McCain.

    Its called BBC World Debate

  202. Carey Moore

    JESUS FUCKING CHRIST PEOPLE, IT’S 2014. BOTH RUDD AND GILLARD ARE NO LONGER IN PARLIAMENT. MOVE ON.

  203. confessions

    [The unfortunate thing is that the well-meaning parents who speak poor English at home rather their own language are depriving children of learning a properly constructed grammatical language. ]

    The AEDI has given us some interesting results about children from non-English speaking backgrounds and their readiness for school. Essentially it’s not as cut-and-dried as you infer.

  204. confessions

    Carey:

    Yes, it is getting beyond obsessive now.

  205. frednk

    Skip if not interested in a rant over attempts to destoy Gillard’s legacy.
    [
    Puff, the Magic Dragon.
    Posted Sunday, January 26, 2014 at 11:59 am | Permalink

    Don’t expect me to let misogynists and Rudd sycophants get away with doing to Gillard’s legacy that which they did to her PMship.
    ]

    And that is the key issue. The Rudd whiteanters and Abbott still on the same side. Wishing to destoy Gillard’s legacy.

    Well Labor has made their decission, they are not going to waste the next two decades trying to walk away from the legacy as Beazley did with Keating’s.

    The attempt to destoy Gillards Legacy will destroy Abbott; he definitly should be worried about the future, not fighting old battles. The pink bat royal commission, who is going to care (and that is Rudd’s mistake anyway, walking away from defending his minister).

    In the end, if history remembers Rudd at all it will be as the whitanter that destroyed Gillard and I suppose those that are defending his actions are trying to avoid this; much more likely however that he will become a footnote.

    Gillard will be remembered no matter how hard the pathetic white men try. At the very least the first female PM.

    The PM before the lost years, the lost years started with Rudd’s second try, the chance to prove he wasn’t full of it, and the result, it was proved he was, and of cause continue under Abbott.

  206. bemused

    confessions@2373

    Carey:

    Yes, it is getting beyond obsessive now.

    Then stop doing it. 😐

  207. frednk

    [
    bemused
    Posted Sunday, January 26, 2014 at 12:53 pm | Permalink
    ..

    Was Kevin Rudd responsible for it? 😐
    ]
    No, and while I am on about acts of image stupidity.

    You don’t see men in high places walking around in clothing showing off their chest hair, women with any sense don’t show off the cleavage.

  208. bemused

    sustainable future@2337

    why it is pointless to ‘debate’ sean or crank

    http://www.alternet.org/education/human-stupidity-destroying-world

    the libs have been masterful in winning the SWUM (stupid white uneducated male) vote. they will fight to destroy public education and remove from the syllabis science, ethics and any form of dialectic analysis, deconstruction or any other method that promotes critical thought

    Just finished reading that article you linked to and it is seriously good.

    I highly recommend it to everyone who has not yet read it.

    Australia is not as bad as the US … yet. But there are certainly forces wanting to push us in that direction.

  209. bemused

    frednk@2376


    bemused
    Posted Sunday, January 26, 2014 at 12:53 pm | Permalink
    ..

    Was Kevin Rudd responsible for it?


    No, and while I am on about acts of image stupidity.

    You don’t see men in high places walking around in clothing showing off their chest hair, women with any sense don’t show off the cleavage.

    I agree up to a point.

    It is hard for a woman to dress fashionably and not show a modest amount of cleavage. And I think that is OK.

  210. liyana

    This is a particularly sad Australia Day – there is nothing to be proud of…..

    But then I watched Adam Goodes’ speech and a small ray of hope blossomed- I hope the ALP has reached out to Adam- I’d like to see him and others like him take a more influential role in public life

  211. Bar Bar

    Her acolytes were boasting, Lizzie.

    At the end of the day, if you are the leader, if you are the prime minister, YOU decide how your image will be presented, whether you will have Dress Like a Tory Woman days in your office and etc …

  212. daretotread

    BW and Player One

    You really do not seem to understand politics if you describe Abbott as a tumour or rotten apple with the implicit assumption that if he was gone there would be sweetness and ligt. Abbott is actually an old style DLP type and follower of Santa maria and I really see very little difference between him and the far Catholic right of Labor – Farrel, Feeney etc. He seems a bit of a thug etc but so do many of ou

  213. daretotread

    BW and Player One

    You really do not seem to understand politics if you describe Abbott as a tumour or rotten apple with the implicit assumption that if he was gone there would be sweetness and ligt. Abbott is actually an old style DLP type and follower of Santa maria and I really see very little difference between him and the far Catholic right of Labor – Farrel, Feeney etc. He seems a bit of a thug etc but so do many of our ALP heavies. Now while on social issue

  214. daretotread

    BW and Player One

    You really do not seem to understand politics if you describe Abbott as a tumour or rotten apple with the implicit assumption that if he was gone there would be sweetness and ligt. Abbott is actually an old style DLP type and follower of Santa maria and I really see very little difference between him and the far Catholic right of Labor – Farrel, Feeney etc. He seems a bit of a thug etc but so do many of our ALP heavies. Now while on social issues Abbott is far right, on economic and even IR issues he is to the left in the LNP.

    If Abbott were turfed out the alternative could be much, much worse. This idea that he is the rotten apple is truly juvenile.

    Why not look at the forces that drive the LNP for the real tu

  215. daretotread

    BW and Player One

    You really do not seem to understand politics if you describe Abbott as a tumour or rotten apple with the implicit assumption that if he was gone there would be sweetness and ligt. Abbott is actually an old style DLP type and follower of Santa maria and I really see very little difference between him and the far Catholic right of Labor – Farrel, Feeney etc. He seems a bit of a thug etc but so do many of our ALP heavies. Now while on social issues Abbott is far right, on economic and even IR issues he is to the left in the LNP.

    If Abbott were turfed out the alternative could be much, much worse. This idea that he is the rotten apple is truly juvenile.

    Why not look at the forces that drive the LNP for the real tumour

  216. zoomster

    bar bar

    I googled and found precisely one reference to ‘Dress Like A Tory’ days in Gillard’s office.

    Wow, talk about controversial….

  217. Boerwar

    BW and Player One

    [You really do not seem to understand politics if you describe Abbott as a tumour or rotten apple with the implicit assumption that if he was gone there would be sweetness and ligt. Abbott is actually an old style DLP type and follower of Santa maria and I really see very little difference between him and the far Catholic right of Labor – Farrel, Feeney etc. He seems a bit of a thug etc but so do many of our ALP heavies. Now while on social issue

    by daretotread on Jan 26, 2014 at 1:35 pm]

    With Rudd and Abbott there is really no need to complicate stuff. They were/are the two rotten apples of Australian politics. Their rot spread/s. We have got rid of one rotten apple. It is time to get rid of the other rotten apple.

    That will leave lots of stuff to be done to improve governance. But without getting rid of the rotten apples we cannot even get started on the other stuff.

  218. Boerwar

    p
    Interesting stuff about/from Onada.

  219. bemused

    daretotread@2384

    BW and Player One

    You really do not seem to understand politics if you describe Abbott as a tumour or rotten apple with the implicit assumption that if he was gone there would be sweetness and ligt. Abbott is actually an old style DLP type and follower of Santa maria and I really see very little difference between him and the far Catholic right of Labor – Farrel, Feeney etc. He seems a bit of a thug etc but so do many of our ALP heavies. Now while on social issues Abbott is far right, on economic and even IR issues he is to the left in the LNP.

    If Abbott were turfed out the alternative could be much, much worse. This idea that he is the rotten apple is truly juvenile.

    Why not look at the forces that drive the LNP for the real tumour

    I found your successive drafts intriguing. 😛

  220. Bugler

    [on economic and even IR issues he is to the left in the LNP.]

    His recent speech suggests otherwise. While there are some members of the ALP Caucus I have a problem with, I think you exaggerate the conservativeness of many of them. E.G. Feeney is hardly a closet Tory.

  221. zoomster

    dtt

    [on economic and even IR issues he is to the left in the LNP.]

    Examples?

  222. bemused

    Just got around to reading Craig Emerson’s latest column and it could almost have been written as a follow on to the one Sustainable Future linked to earlier: http://www.alternet.org/education/human-stupidity-destroying-world

    Read it first and then read Emerson:

    http://craigemersoneconomics.com/blog/2014/1/25/column-in-the-australian-ideology-not-logic-is-driving-todays-debates

  223. Player One

    daretotread@2382

    BW and Player One

    You really do not seem to understand politics if you describe Abbott as a tumour or rotten apple.

    There is no question that Abbott is a blight on Australian politics. And there is no question that the only reason he ever made it to the position of PM is because we had the unfortunate bad luck to also have a blight on the other side of politics as well (now gone).

    Left to himself, Abbott would have remained a slightly imbecilic but largely innocuous fruit loop, snickered at by both sides of politics.

    He was catapulted into the top job by a series of events that should never have happened, and hopefully will never happen again.

    But as long as he remains there he will continue to do serious and long-term damage.

    He needs to be removed as fast as possible. Many in the ALP side are still too busy fighting old battles to accomplish much, but fortunately a few in the LNP are beginning to see this. Let’s hope a few more wake up soon.

  224. confessions

    [and even IR issues he is to the left in the LNP.]

    There is no evidence for this at all.

  225. Bar Bar

    All one has to do is read this story from the 2010 election to understand why Julia went south.

    http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-opinion/a-string-of-pearls-and-a-soft-spot-for-howard-20100802-113fp.html

  226. daretotread

    Sorry for posting 4 times. This laptop has a mind of its own.

    In fact can anyone help. When I type the cursor jumps about and I find I am typing several lines above. It is very irritating. Seems to hit the post key often too

  227. davidwh

    I wouldn’t mind showing some chest hair if I had some 🙁

  228. DisplayName

    dtt, does your laptop have one of those little touchpad things? Or some other sensitive input device?

  229. confessions

    [Many in the ALP side are still too busy fighting old battles to accomplish much,]

    Is this true? The picture I get of the current caucus is one of relief that those battles are now finally behind them with Rudd’s retirement. They look more united than at any stage in the last 5 years.

  230. AussieAchmed

    Diogenes

    Posted Sunday, January 26, 2014 at 12:28 pm | Permalink

    Another thing about cultists, be they Rudd or Gillard, is that there is no level of evidence which can get them to change their minds and it is pointless to try.
    ====================================================

    So they are in the same “class” as Bolt, Ackerman, Abbott, Hockey, Pyne, Morrison, Wilson, Murdoch, Monkton etc

  231. frednk

    [bemused
    Posted Sunday, January 26, 2014 at 1:32 pm | Permalink

    I agree up to a point.

    It is hard for a woman to dress fashionably and not show a modest amount of cleavage. And I think that is OK.
    ]

    Being a PM isn’t a fashion show. In my view (worth nothing) there where three points where Gillard’s image as a PM was destoyed.

    1)She was a PM not a fashion model. There were several other occasion where the dress left one shaking one’s head. Suits have a function. Took her a while to work that out.

    2)Being dragged over the lawn like a stack of potatoes by her security team, the whole dam lot should have been sacked.

    3)The WW article.

  232. confessions

    davidwh:

    Chest hair on men is seriously over-rated. Trust me.

  233. bemused

    daretotread@2395

    Sorry for posting 4 times. This laptop has a mind of its own.

    In fact can anyone help. When I type the cursor jumps about and I find I am typing several lines above. It is very irritating. Seems to hit the post key often too

    What is your browser and do you use cccp?

  234. Player One

    confessions@2398


    Many in the ALP side are still too busy fighting old battles to accomplish much,


    Is this true? The picture I get of the current caucus is one of relief that those battles are now finally behind them with Rudd’s retirement. They look more united than at any stage in the last 5 years.

    Actually, I wasn’t talking about Caucus – I was talking about the kind of ossified party members we routinely get posting here on PB … the ones too busy re-fighting old battles to contribute anything new or useful.

    Present company excepted, of course! 🙂

  235. AussieAchmed

    Chest hair Abbott – the guy is still evolving from monkey to human..

  236. bemused

    frednk@2400


    bemused
    Posted Sunday, January 26, 2014 at 1:32 pm | Permalink

    I agree up to a point.

    It is hard for a woman to dress fashionably and not show a modest amount of cleavage. And I think that is OK.


    Being a PM isn’t a fashion show. In my view (worth nothing) there where three points where Gillard’s image as a PM was destoyed.

    1)She was a PM not a fashion model. There were several other occasion where the dress left one shaking one’s head. Suits have a function. Took her a while to work that out.

    2)Being dragged over the lawn like a stack of potatoes by her security team, the whole dam lot should have been sacked.

    3)The WW article.

    I agree entirely except that smart business attire can still show a small amount of cleavage and does not detract.

    Re 2) she actually had a chance to shine on that occasion.
    All she needed to do was have a staffer go out and speak to the crowd and tell them if they calmed down the PM would come out and talk to them. Then go out and charm them.

    Recall Albo confronting the convoy of no consequence outside his electoral office?

  237. frednk

    [confessions
    Posted Sunday, January 26, 2014 at 1:52 pm | Permalink

    davidwh:

    Chest hair on men is seriously over-rated. Trust me.
    ]
    And so is cleavage. If you want to see a womens tits you marry her.

  238. daretotread

    Confessions

    Yes there is. He is KNOWN to have been amongst those who opposed work choices. His PPS is also quite progressive in LNP terms.

    For crying out bloody loud, Abbott is the LNP PM. if he fell off his bike tomorrow another, probably worse would take his place. Abbott is an incompetent lazy right wing ideologue, with a lizard brain. Problem: is is Prissy Pyne, Erica Betz, Mesma, Shrek, Andrews, Barnyard, any better.

    I fear the extreme RW ideologues far MORE than Abbott. Even Sh

  239. Bugler

    Davidwh,

    You can have some of mine. I have little need for it.

  240. Just Me

    DTT

    Do your drafting in a separate text file using your favourite word processing program, not in the forum comments box.

    Then just copy and paste the finished comment into the forum box and hit enter.

    Also protects you against losing a draft because of any forum software gremlins.

  241. Boerwar

    This morning, quite by chance, I talked to a total stranger, a woman today who had been a child in the Japanese civilian internment camps in Java in WW2. Her uncle survived the Burma railroad. Her father died of starvation in Japan.

    We talked about whether we could bear to see the movie called ‘The Rail Man’. Amongst other things, the movie is a real story about a POW who forgives a camp guard. I won’t be seeing it. She wants to see it but she cannot figure out how to get herself ready to see it.

    We talked about the notion of forgiveness. Was it possible to forgive if the Japanese do not acknowledge their history, if they celebrate C5631, and if the prime minister of Japan visits the Yasukuni Shrine which, inter alia, venerates the memory of convicted Japanese war criminals? Is it possible to forgive criminals if they continue to deny their crimes, and to honour each other? Not really, we thought.

    As we shared our stories about the direct and indirect impacts of that war through generations of our families, she told of how at the age of five she learned to smile in order, as she thought at the time, to prevent the camp guards from killing her. It was at about that point in our conversation that she began to weep.

    We have agreed to meet again.

    When war mongers nominate a date at which a war ends, ‘1945’ for World War Two, just keep in mind that they are making stuff up. All that 1945 means is that the shooting stopped. But that War is still causing suffering. It is still shortening lives. That War is alive in many, many people today. As are all the other wars since then.

  242. Bugler

    Without a 😛 emoticon, the last comment seems quite creepy.

  243. bemused

    frednk@2406


    confessions
    Posted Sunday, January 26, 2014 at 1:52 pm | Permalink

    davidwh:

    Chest hair on men is seriously over-rated. Trust me.


    And so is cleavage. If you want to see a womens tits you marry her.

    Rather an old fashioned point of view.
    Haven’t been to a beach in the last 5 decades or so?

  244. confessions

    PO:

    Okay, that’s what I thought you meant, but wasn’t sure. 🙂

  245. bemused

    Just Me@2409

    DTT

    Do your drafting in a separate text file using your favourite word processing program, not in the forum comments box.

    Then just copy and paste the finished comment into the forum box and hit enter.

    Also protects you against losing a draft because of any forum software gremlins.

    Good idea.

    I have toyed with doing it on occasions when PB was playing up, but it always came good before I got around to it.

  246. Just Me

    [When war mongers nominate a date at which a war ends, ’1945′ for World War Two, just keep in mind that they are making stuff up. All that 1945 means is that the shooting stopped. But that War is still causing suffering. It is still shortening lives. That War is alive in many, many people today. As are all the other wars since then.]

    The consequences of WW2 still echo loudly and painfully through the living in my family.

  247. confessions

    [Yes there is. He is KNOWN to have been amongst those who opposed work choices.]

    His opposition to workchoices only became ‘known’ once he was leader and needed to downplay his connection to the Howard years. This ‘fact’ was presented to us by a Murdoch journalist.

    If there are any public statements by Abbott at the time of Workchoices stating his opposition to WC, I imagine we’d have learned about it all long before we did.

  248. fiona

    Boerwar @ 2410,

    Thank you for your story. Much food for thought there.

  249. daretotread

    Fred

    I appreciate your comments because they are a rational look at some things that went wrong for Julia Gillard and which were not the fault of the devil from Qld.

    It seems to me that there was something missing in the media room in her office. Something or someone just hit the notes slightly off key. It was not by much but it still mattered. The two WW articles were the most clear evidence of this, along with “Moving Forward” etc

    Now I really DO think it is time to move on so the ONLY relevant question is:

    Are any of the same people now in Shorten’s Office and if so what can be done to make sure that similar wrong keys are not struck.

  250. Kevin Bonham

    Final intended spam post for:

    http://kevinbonham.blogspot.com.au/2014/01/andrews-phantom-welfare-spending-crisis.html

    Andrews’ Phantom Welfare Spending Crisis

    This article examines Kevin Andrews’ claims of an unsustainable level of welfare spending as an argument for crackdowns on Disability Support Pension and dole payments and finds them generally wanting.

  251. frednk

    [
    bemused
    Posted Sunday, January 26, 2014 at 2:03 pm | Permalink

    frednk@2406

    confessions
    Posted Sunday, January 26, 2014 at 1:52 pm | Permalink

    davidwh:

    Chest hair on men is seriously over-rated. Trust me.

    And so is cleavage. If you want to see a womens tits you marry her.

    Rather an old fashioned point of view.
    Haven’t been to a beach in the last 5 decades or so?
    ]
    Fare enough, but I don’t expect, and to date havn’t seen swim gear in the office.

  252. daretotread

    Just me

    I will try your idea but I rather suspect it is a laptop issue, as it happens when I am using word. – Actually have not been using word recently, just heaps of excel so will test it out.

  253. Diogenes

    Bugler

    [Not particularly accurate ATM. If Daft Punk doesn’t get a song in the top 10 I’d be extremely surprised. If Vance Joy get no. 1 for Rip Tide I quit. (Not that I think they’ll pull off a “Thrift Shop” (an alright song played to death by commercial stations))]

    They got Thrift Shop as the number 1 last year.

  254. zoomster

    Right, as I thought – dtt can’t provide a single example (except the usual stuff about hearing it somewhere) to support her contention.

  255. confessions

    They now do a welcome to country ahead of the national anthems for the cricket. Entirely appropriate in my view, and nice to see.

  256. zoomster

    KB

    don’t know if you caught my post yesterday thanking you for that piece, which I’ve distributed widely.

    Pspehs are getting to be a dime a dozen (sorry, William)– good analysis of policy in plain language is a rare beast indeed.

    So thank you.

  257. bemused

    frednk@2420


    bemused
    Posted Sunday, January 26, 2014 at 2:03 pm | Permalink

    frednk@2406

    confessions
    Posted Sunday, January 26, 2014 at 1:52 pm | Permalink

    davidwh:

    Chest hair on men is seriously over-rated. Trust me.

    And so is cleavage. If you want to see a womens tits you marry her.

    Rather an old fashioned point of view.
    Haven’t been to a beach in the last 5 decades or so?


    Fare enough, but I don’t expect, and to date havn’t seen swim gear in the office.

    But I am prepared to bet you have seen cleavage in the office. 😀

  258. AussieAchmed

    frednk

    Posted Sunday, January 26, 2014 at 1:59 pm | Permalink

    confessions
    Posted Sunday, January 26, 2014 at 1:52 pm | Permalink

    davidwh:

    Chest hair on men is seriously over-rated. Trust me.

    And so is cleavage. If you want to see a womens tits you marry her.
    =============================================
    But isn’t Tone already married?

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bc30OCTCAAAcw7D.jpg

  259. confessions

    From twitter:

    [If only Senator FierravantiWells’ desired policy had been in place 50 years ago, we might never have heard of/from her.]

  260. bemused

    daretotread@2421

    Just me

    I will try your idea but I rather suspect it is a laptop issue, as it happens when I am using word. – Actually have not been using word recently, just heaps of excel so will test it out.

    You mean a hardware issue?

    Or do you mean software problems?

    Adobe Flash used to cause me a lot of grief with my browser. Until I got rid of it.

  261. AussieAchmed

    This article examines Kevin Andrews’ claims of an unsustainable level of welfare spending as an argument for crackdowns on Disability Support Pension and dole payments and finds them generally wanting.
    ==================================================

    But $4 billion a year to mainly foreign owned mining companies is?

  262. bemused

    zoomster@2423

    Right, as I thought – dtt can’t provide a single example (except the usual stuff about hearing it somewhere) to support her contention.

    Or maybe, like others, she can’t be bothered playing your silly games. 😐

  263. Bugler

    Diogenes,

    I read the preamble/description and because you can’t share your votes this time it’s harder for them to get the votes to collate them, so have a smaller sample size. Rip Tide may get it, I’m just not mad keen on the song as it’s been played so much on the commercial station which I often have to listen to at work.

  264. castle

    [If only Senator FierravantiWells’ desired policy had been in place 50 years ago, we might never have heard of/from her.]

    She has a point, look how distressed Howard was from the number of asian faces he saw in the streets of Oz.

    The LNP could probably go that one extra step for Howie and offer subsidised rebates under medicare for whitening of the skin and de-asianisation of the eyes.

  265. Puff, the Magic Dragon.

    So we are down to critising our first female PM because she showed too much/not enough tit?

    Wow. Classy.

  266. zoomster

    bemused

    yes, I know – it’s silly to ask dtt to back up anything she says with actual proof.

  267. frednk

    [
    daretotread
    Posted Sunday, January 26, 2014 at 2:09 pm | Permalink

    Are any of the same people now in Shorten’s Office and if so what can be done to make sure that similar wrong keys are not struck.
    ]

    It’s as if the Gillard men went and joined Abbott’s office. It’s Abbott that is running around in togs. But at least he does it at the beach.

    The problem was that Gillard was the first female prime minister. Like it or not, men dress for their different roles. Suits have a purpose. People, male and female are used to the different roles, used to the suit.

    I think the issue I am talking about is a staff that didn’t realise she was taking on a man’s role and like it or not she had to adopt the conventions men do when taking on that sort of role. Sexless dressing.

    Laughing at Tory women wearing polar neck jumpers and pearls is the same as laughing at suits. They serve a purpose.

    Take a look an Penny Wong, always immaculately dressed and dressed for the role.

  268. mexicanbeemer

    frednk

    That is a valid point about dressing for the role, although Gillard did for the most part dress professionally.

  269. bemused

    zoomster@2435

    bemused

    yes, I know – it’s silly to ask dtt to back up anything she says with actual proof.

    You would probably just reject any proof offered and it would resolve into an endless quest to satisfy you.

    Most people have better things to do.

  270. frednk

    [
    AussieAchmed
    Posted Sunday, January 26, 2014 at 2:18 pm | Permalink

    But isn’t Tone already married?

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bc30OCTCAAAcw7D.jpg
    ]
    Be honest, don’t you feel a little bit sorry for the guy; it’s so dam hard not to look when the opportunity presents itself.

    That is why I absolutely hold the view, if you want to be taken seriously don’t present yourself with you lungs hanging out. If you want to dress like that, go to the beach, not the office.

  271. daretotread

    The issue of clothing is one area where women are at a serious disadvantage compared with men.

    Now for a guy if he has had a late night, been sick, had a row with the wife,had a sleep over with a “friend”, or is stressed about a matter of state, he gets out of bed, showers, drags a suit from the cupboard and one of his 15 blue or white shirt and a tie any tie, will do. Finds his black shoes, runs a combe through his hair and hey presto, no one will notice he is not 100%. He will look professional, serious and in control.

    Women get a much rougher deal. It is an iron law that you never, ever, ever wear the same clothes you wore the day before, so you must find a fresh suit or skirt jacket set. You must find the right shirt which is not just one of 14 collared blue/white shirts, No you meed to think of the exact colour to match or not clash with the suit/jacket, you need to think about neckline (the shape of the jacket determines the neckline), Too colourful or neckline too low says fast, too glamourous says bimbo, not glamourous enough says dork.

    You need to find appropriate jewellery and select from shoes, thinking about the colour, the style and the day’s activities ie comfort versus fashion. Do you or do you not wear “f**k me” heels.

    Then there is the hair and makeup. If it is not up to scratch it screams tired sick or spent last night with a “friend.” A man has hair. A woman has a hairstyle. Does she go short “I am tough”, does she go “dress like a Tory”, does she go long and pretty and sexy. Do I look feminine or more like a man.

    So here I do feel for Gillard in her first weeks in office. It was bloody hard to get it right. However I get a sense of a bevvy of advisors pushing her in all sorts of directions and just not quite getting it right.

    Now Anna Bligh did get it right pretty much always. It took Gillard until January 2013 to get it right. It was a bit too late by then

  272. Bar Bar

    Abbott at the beach – is result of his long time volunteer work as a surf life saver. All the surf lifesavers I’ve ever seen wear speedos. ie Abbott is being authentic.

    Julia’s image problem was that it was entirely inauthentic – Julia Gillard admiring John Howard? Pulease.

    Julia’s staff was mainly women at the time, or so I understand, and had been with her right through government and some of them back in opposition.

    It would have been the culture. Unfortunately it went backwards after McTernan as brought out on that 457.

  273. bemused

    frednk@2436



    Take a look an Penny Wong, always immaculately dressed and dressed for the role.

    You are dead right about Penny.

    IIRC Tanya Plibersek is always pretty well dressed too. But I also recall her showing a little cleavage.

    Hey, it doesn’t really matter. I think you are making far too much of that issue although I do agree that excessive displays are inappropriate.

  274. mexicanbeemer

    If Merit Andrews is serious about reducing welfare spending he first needs an economic policy.

    There is nothing wrong with reviewing the welfare sector as long as it is fair-dinkum.

    Australia currently has a soft employment market which indicates the focus needs to be on the economic policy.

    If the economy was booming and full-employment had been achieved then you could look further into increasing workforce capacity.

    Clearly Merit Andrews has no recruitment or hiring experience.

  275. frednk

    [daretotread
    Posted Sunday, January 26, 2014 at 2:35 pm | Permalink

    ..

    Now Anna Bligh did get it right pretty much always. It took Gillard until January 2013 to get it right. It was a bit too late by then]

    That is why there is a lot to be said for polar neck jumpers and pearls.

    Your allowed to wear the same pearls. A collection of plain polar neck jumer serves the same purpose as a colleciton of ties.

  276. bemused

    frednk@2445


    daretotread
    Posted Sunday, January 26, 2014 at 2:35 pm | Permalink

    ..

    Now Anna Bligh did get it right pretty much always. It took Gillard until January 2013 to get it right. It was a bit too late by then


    That is why there is a lot to be said for polar neck jumpers and pearls.

    Your allowed to wear the same pearls. A collection of plain polar neck jumer serves the same purpose as a colleciton of ties.

    Perhaps plain pants suits with plain blouses (much like men’s suits and shirts) with a colourful scarf to add a bit of colour like men’s ties.

    My wife likes the colourful scarfs and I do think they look good.

  277. frednk

    bemused
    Posted Sunday, January 26, 2014 at 2:44 pm | Permalink

    frednk@2445

    daretotread
    Posted Sunday, January 26, 2014 at 2:35 pm | Permalink

    ..

    Now Anna Bligh did get it right pretty much always. It took Gillard until January 2013 to get it right. It was a bit too late by then

    That is why there is a lot to be said for polar neck jumpers and pearls.

    Your allowed to wear the same pearls. A collection of plain polar neck jumer serves the same purpose as a colleciton of ties.

    Perhaps plain pants suits with plain blouses (much like men’s suits and shirts) with a colourful scarf to add a bit of colour like men’s ties.

    My wife likes the colourful scarfs and I do think they look good.

  278. mexicanbeemer

    Both Anna Blight and Tanya P always dress very well, i suspect they wear what they are comfortable in, clothing needs to suit the person’s personality.

  279. Diogenes

    P1

    [When more of your life is behind you than ahead of you, it naturally seems more important to rewrite history than to change the future.

    Best just leave them to it – time is both a necessary and sufficient remedy for such nonsense.]

    True. It’s also that the more time and effort people have spent on something, the more it is their identity. Anything that criticises that persons party/cult/faction etc is perceived as a personal assault and so there is endless repairs to and defence of the fantasy castle the person lives in.

  280. frednk

    Ooops sorry for posting without editing.
    [
    bemused
    Posted Sunday, January 26, 2014 at 2:44 pm | Permalink

    ..

    My wife likes the colourful scarfs and I do think they look good.
    ]
    Talking about scarfs, I probable shouldn’t point this out, but boy some of the Muslim women look good in their scarves. It would be something if that was a fashion that caught on in the west. Really screw with a bogan’s mind.

  281. Just Me

    Just to be clear, I don’t want to in any way stop people from being able to discuss the Rudd-Gillard thing on PB, to death if they so wish.

    Just want them to stop cluttering up the main active discussion with what I see as an increasingly repetitive discussion about an increasingly irrelevant historical issue.

    I have my views on that issue, and have made them known in the past here. But by any practical standard deposing (or at least, neutering) Abbott and the hard right is without doubt the main political game now.

  282. briefly

    [2291….Fran Barlow]

    Yes, patterning makes for beauty, too. How lucky we are to notice and enjoy them.

  283. Catalyst

    If all we have to talk about are ‘style wars’ would someone like to comment on the professionalism or not, of our current foreign Ministers outfits?

  284. daretotread

    Julie Bishop’s clothes are highly professional, but very very expensive.

    They certainly do not offend BUT there is something a bit too stiff about them.

  285. Psephos

    Was there a five-hour outage?

  286. Puff, the Magic Dragon.

    ‘Outage’ is a clumsy Americanism. The correct term in Australia is ‘black-out’.
    How the hell do you get a noun from the word ‘out’ by putting ‘age on the end? Ludicrous!

  287. Puff, the Magic Dragon.

    Another Coalition brain-fart.
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-01-27/govt-forges-ahead-with-work-for-the-dole-plans/5220304
    Aged Care facilities are mostly profit-making enterprises (even the church ones, in their own way).
    Free gardening, maintenance and painting services being donated forcibly by Newstart recipients is not appropriate.
    If the facilities want these services, they should pay full commercial rates for them, like any other business.

    This is another scheme which will cause much more in administration plus red and green tape than the dubious benefits gained, other than buying a few middle class votes.

    Though I suppose the dole-bludgers can use the litter pickup days to case houses for later break-ins, or spot suitable preppy teens for future drug sales. (sarcasm)

  288. Puff, the Magic Dragon.

    [
    But we found the study participants tended to be more rational and ‘colder’ in their problem-solving when using their second language — in this case English.”

    The study backs up the findings of a 2012 University of Chicago study which also found that using a foreign language reduces decision-making bias.

    “We propose that these effects arise because a foreign language provides greater cognitive and emotional distance than a native tongue does,” said the authors of that study.
    ]
    http://www.thelocal.es/20140108/people-are-more-logical-in-a-second-language

  289. don

    Another brainfart from the LNP:

    http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/focus-on-young-jobless-in-abbott-governments-enhanced-work-for-the-dole-20140127-31hts.html

    [ The ACTU has lashed the federal government for planning an “enhanced” work-for-the-dole program, warning Holden workers facing the loss of their job could end up picking garbage.

    The peak union body’s president, Ged Kearney, said the plan to expand the work program for unemployed people would not necessarily provide pathway back into the workforce.

    The Coalition government is looking to start its ”enhanced” work-for-the-dole program in the next financial year, with a focus on young unemployed Australians.
    ]

  290. CTar1

    ESJ

    [Stand by for a bombshell announcement tonight !]

    That’s 4 days ago …