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Federal Election 2016

Jan 26, 2014

Seat of the week: Port Adelaide

Keeping things focused on South Australia as the state election looms into view, the latest instalment of Seat of the Week takes us to the state's safest Labor seat.

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Numbers indicate size of two-party preferred booth majority for Labor. Click for larger image. Map boundaries courtesy of Ben Raue at The Tally Room.

The electorate of Port Adelaide includes Port Adelaide itself and the adjacent Le Fevre Peninsula, including the suburbs around Sempahore and Largs Bay, along with Woodville and its surrounds to the north of the city and, some distance to the north-east, a stretch of suburbs from Parfield Gardens north to Salisbury North, which are separated from the rest of the electorate by the Dry Creek industrial area. A very safe seat for Labor, its margin after the 2013 election was 14.0%, pared back from a redistribution-adjusted 20.9% by a 6.9% swing to the Liberals.

Port Adelaide was created with the expansion of parliament in 1949 from an area that had previously made Hindmarsh a safe seat for Labor. Such was Labor’s strength that the Liberals did not field candidates in 1954 and 1955, when the only competition for Labor came from the Communist Party. Rod Sawford assumed the seat at a by-election in 1988 upon the resignation of the rather more high-profile Mick Young, who had been the member since 1974. With Sawford’s retirement at the 2007 election the seat passed on to Mark Butler, the state secretary of the Left faction Liquor Hospitality and Miscellaneous Workers Union and a descendant of two conservative state premiers: his great- and great-great-grandfathers, both of whom were called Sir Richard Butler.

Butler quietly established himself as a rising star over Labor’s two terms in government, winning promotion to parliamentary secretary in June 2009 and then to the junior ministry portfolios of mental health and ageing after the 2010 election. The latter promotion came despite his noted hesitancy in jumping aboard the Julia Gillard bandwagon during the June 2010 leadership coup. Butler was elevated to cabinet in December 2011 when social inclusion was added to his existing responsibilities, and he further gained housing and homeless in the February 2013 reshuffle which followed the departure of Nicola Roxon and Chris Evans. He remained solidly behind Gillard when Kevin Rudd challenged her for the leadership in February 2012, but emerged among the decisive defectors to the Rudd camp ahead of his successful leadership bid in June 2013. The subsequent reshuffle saw him promoted to environment and climate change, which he retained in the shadow ministry following the election defeat.

William Bowe — Editor of The Poll Bludger

William Bowe

Editor of The Poll Bludger

William Bowe is a Perth-based election analyst and occasional teacher of political science. His blog, The Poll Bludger, is one of the most heavily trafficked forums for online discussion of Australian politics, and joined the Crikey stable in 2008.

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581 comments

581 thoughts on “Seat of the week: Port Adelaide

  1. Boerwar

    Hi Fiona
    I trust all is well with your good self and your family?

  2. Diogenes

    P1

    When more of your life is behind you than ahead of you, it naturally seems more important to rewrite history than to change the future.

    Best just leave them to it – time is both a necessary and sufficient remedy for such nonsense.

    True. It’s also that the more time and effort people have spent on something, the more it is their identity. Anything that criticises that persons party/cult/faction etc is perceived as a personal assault and so there is endless repairs to and defence of the fantasy castle the person lives in..

  3. confessions

    When are we going to see some more polling? Obviously not this weekend, but maybe a Newspoll or Neilsen next weekend perhaps?

  4. Diogenes

    William

    I’ve got a friend who knows Butler. She said he was really gutted by having to choose between Gillard and Rudd at the end and agonised over it. She says he’s a really good guy.

  5. Kevin Bonham

    confessions: I will be surprised if we don’t get at least one of Newspoll or Nielsen next weekend. Newspoll especially will be latest on recent record if not out next weekend.

    From previous:

    zoomster@2425

    KB

    don’t know if you caught my post yesterday thanking you for that piece, which I’ve distributed widely.

    Pspehs are getting to be a dime a dozen (sorry, William)– good analysis of policy in plain language is a rare beast indeed.

    So thank you.

    Yes I did see that and thanks for doing so. It’s an issue which I really despair of the poor quality of public debate about and understanding of.

  6. Asha Leu

    @confessions

    A guy from Morgan came to my friend’s house yesterday, asking questions about a whole raft of things including fed voting intention, so I’m assuming they’ve got ne coming out after the long weekend.

  7. William Bowe

    There will be a poll in the coming days that’s not Essential or Morgan. That’s all I’m at liberty to say.

  8. Just Me

    [KB
    don’t know if you caught my post yesterday thanking you for that piece, which I’ve distributed widely.

    {snip} good analysis of policy in plain language is a rare beast indeed.

    So thank you.]

    +1

    Very informative and useful piece, Mr B. I have also passed it on to a few who can use it.

  9. deblonay

    RE Hillary Clinton and disasterous policies
    ____________________
    _Last night with surprising _honesty…Psephos told us that the peak zionist Lobby group…AIPAC,,,will lavishily fund Clinton for the next Presidential campaign….that’s a way of buying influence …they are good at that and have vast funding and wealth to do it
    That was Psephos not me…so hold off ESL… on charges of anti-semitism…

    http://www.lewrockwell.com/lrc-blog/hillary-clintons-responsibility-for-libyas-misery

    A US writer today looks at the disasters in the M East which have affected the whole world since Bush’s Iraq wsar…and the article loooks at the crisis and collapse effected Libya…a special Clinton project

    and we know those who want anokther major conflict which would effect us all..,.with Iran …a nation 4 times as populous as Iraq and five times as difficult to subdue
    Psephos said that”Iran must be dealt with”…I think he means a war like Iraq.
    Clinton however ,funded by the Lobby would be a danger to peace .. Perhaps with Blair and Bush she should be appearing before the Hague War Crimes Tribunal

  10. bemused

    William Bowe@7

    There will be a poll in the coming days that’s not Essential or Morgan. That’s all I’m at liberty to say.

    Do you have a more quantitative term than ‘coming days’?

  11. confessions

    [Prime Minister Tony Abbott is determined that recognising indigenous people in Australia’s constitution is a “national crusade” that should be important to everyone.]
    http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/national/a/21058411/abbott-on-indigenous-recognition-crusade/

    It’s great that Abbott is finally showing commitment to this issues, but a “national crusade” sounds like religious fervour.

  12. Kevin Bonham

    I’m at liberty to say that ReachTEL were reported in the field a couple of days ago:

    [ dion kennedy @dionkennedy1

    Just did Reachtel survey -rate PM Op leader,state of economy past present and future -does welfare need review]

    Presumably voting intention in the mix there too.

    As soon as any poll other than Essential is released my aggregate will be re-activated. It went to sleep because it was hungry a couple of weeks ago.

  13. fiona

    Hi Boerwar.

    Things are good. My mother is now based in Melbourne, and will be moving into a flat across the road from me in a couple of weeks.

    We are having fun playing in the garden and nagging my OH.

    I hope all is well with you and your family.

  14. poroti

    deblonay

    Back about the “noughties” when the drums of war against Iran were beating loud in Washington a snippet was leaked . No doubt from within the military. The Pentagon had war gamed a war with Iran and the US had come second 3 out of the five times.
    The decisive factors were the anti ship + air missiles they had along the Hormuz and the fact they were set up deep underground where nothing short of nuclear bombs would take them out. That and their “swarms” of anti ship missile armed small boats that would overwhelm defenses.

  15. halloween jack

    FWIW I was Morganned via SMS last Thursday.

  16. Boerwar

    [deblonay

    Back about the “noughties” when the drums of war against Iran were beating loud in Washington a snippet was leaked . No doubt from within the military. The Pentagon had war gamed a war with Iran and the US had come second 3 out of the five times.
    The decisive factors were the anti ship + air missiles they had along the Hormuz and the fact they were set up deep underground where nothing short of nuclear bombs would take them out. That and their “swarms” of anti ship missile armed small boats that would overwhelm defenses.

    by poroti on Jan 26, 2014 at 3:37 pm]

    Well, not terribly surprising, IMHO. The US came second in Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan. They won practically every single battle but lost the wars.

  17. Boerwar

    fiona

    All well here. The family is going well.

  18. Diogenes

    Are the new telemarketing laws going to have any effect on ohone polling?

  19. rossmcg

    Boerwar

    And a few days ago there were people suggesting we should go to war with Indonesia and we would win because of cultural differences or some such.

  20. confessions

    Dio:

    What are the new telemarketing laws?

  21. Player One

    [ Prime Minister Tony Abbott is determined that recognising indigenous people in Australia’s constitution is a “national crusade” that should be important to everyone. ]

    Everything with Abbott has to be a “crusade” because he lacks the critical faculties to either understand or expound any rational arguments.

    Someone probably told him this will win him some votes – which to him probably just means he might hold onto his job a bit longer.

  22. zoomster

    No, Diog – charities, pollsters and political parties will always be exempt. That’s because the latter are responsible for the regulations.

  23. Diogenes

    Z

    [No, Diog – charities, pollsters and political parties will always be exempt. That’s because the latter are responsible for the regulations.]

    Why should pollsters and political parties be exempt?

  24. Diogenes

    Fess

    The default will be that telemarketers can’t ring you unless you opt in on a register as someone they can ring.

  25. poroti

    Diogenes

    [Why should pollsters and political parties be exempt?]
    Coz their minions write the laws ?

  26. Jackol

    Prime Minister Tony Abbott is determined that recognising indigenous people in Australia’s constitution is a “national crusade” that should be important to everyone.

    Ok, so where was Abbott on this issue over the last 3 years when an official process to do this was put in place?

    The committee formed to look at this decided that there wasn’t enough support to take anything to a referendum quickly – and a lack of bipartisanship on this issue would have been a major factor in that.

    Yes, Abbott and co never dissed the concept entirely, but they were always strangely absent from the debate and unenthusiastic about it.

    So, opportunistic and hypocritical are a given with Abbott I guess, so let’s move on.

    Making a big deal out of this (and it remains to be seen whether a ‘national crusade’ is something that Abbott actually makes a big deal of) is risky for Abbott.

    He can’t afford to talk too big about this because his party and his supporters won’t let him support any substantive change to the constitution. “Recognition” in Abbott’s hands is almost undoubtedly just something not too far removed from Howard’s “let’s fiddle with the preamble and job done”.

    If Abbott makes a big deal out of this and then delivers Howard-mark-2 I don’t think that will go down too well. The Mundines and Pearsons who have hitched themselves to his wagon are the ones who most fiercely talk about how pointless tokenism and symbolism are, but that’s all Abbott can offer here.

  27. Diogenes

    fess

    Here’s the proposal.

    One million calls a day!!

    And the telemarketers say it would cost 150,000 “jobs”.

    http://www.news.com.au/national/new-plan-could-reduce-nuisance-sales-calls/story-fncynjr2-1226807961666

  28. Diogenes

    Jackol

    In fairness to Abbott he has been in favor of that for quite a while.

    Bolt has called him a racist for supporting it.

  29. Boerwar

    [Boerwar

    And a few days ago there were people suggesting we should go to war with Indonesia and we would win because of cultural differences or some such.

    by rossmcg on Jan 26, 2014 at 3:49 pm]

    There are certainly some people who think that culture matters and that it would make the vital difference between victory and defeat in a war with Indonesia. I suppose relative ‘cultures’ might help to explain partially why we lost in Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan, so ‘culture’ might not be such an irrelevant consideration in a possible war with Indonesia. Memo to self: reread Patrick White’s oevre, the King James version of the Bible from cover to cover, watch the entire series of ‘Neighbours’, listen to Kylie Minogue for one whole day and listen to replays of all of Abbott’s speeches – all the while draped in the Australian flag.

  30. confessions

    [The default will be that telemarketers can’t ring you unless you opt in on a register as someone they can ring.]

    Sounds like a reverse do not call register.

    There are (or are plans for) do not knock laws here so salespeople can’t door knock your house, but I think religious people and pollsters are exempt from those too.

  31. zoomster

    Diog

    didn’t say they should be, just that they would be (people here are always confusing explaining with supporting — you can explain something without agreeing with it).

  32. Jackol

    Diog – I’m not sure what ‘it’ is that Abbott has been in favour of – there are a couple of different proposals on the table, as I understand it, ranging from the Howard-style adding words to the preamble to substantive stuff about removing race powers and the like.

    But that’s not what I’m saying about hypocrisy. Now that he’s in government it’s a “National Crusade”. When the process was under way under the previous government where was Abbott talking about it being a “Crusade” and going on about how the ALP government wasn’t moving quickly enough or prioritizing it etc?

    The LNP were as silent as they could be on the issue without actually opposing it. Until now.

  33. confessions

    [The committee formed to look at this decided that there wasn’t enough support to take anything to a referendum quickly – and a lack of bipartisanship on this issue would have been a major factor in that.

    Yes, Abbott and co never dissed the concept entirely, but they were always strangely absent from the debate and unenthusiastic about it.]

    Ken Wyatt was the Liberal representative on that committee, but towards the end of the parliamentary term he was pulled off it from memory, and the coalition started to really disengage from the issue.

    If Abbott can get the coalition back re-engaged with constitutional recognition, I will be happy. Even more so if he can put aside his thuggery and effect the bipartisanship in order to deliver it.

  34. MTBW

    zoomster

    You need to keep in mind that most of us here are adults.

    Do you address those in your class room like you speak to people on here.

    Enough already!

  35. Boerwar

    [a national crusade]

    So, the Mad Monk is launching a Christian-style Jihad. But against what or against whom?

    I thought we had already beaten the Indigenous people into some sort of submission?

    If Abbott follows Howard’s lead, his government will systematically target Indigenous organisations as the enemy of the government.

    In Opposition, Abbott appeared to think that a week’s FIFO posturing in a Cape York community by a stranger actually made a difference on the ground and provided some sort of experiential alternative to solid policy work on Indigenous programs and policies.

    How else could we explain that Abbott has already cut spending for Indigenous organisations including organisations dedicated to addressing one of the great injustices in Australia – the overpolicing of Indigenous people and their disproportionate incarceration rates. Abbott has formed a completely unrepresentative Indigenous Advisory Council. Mundine’s public contribution has been to explain that Indigenous people have to suffer along with everyone else when budgetary conditions are tough. (He must have forgotten about the 15,000 wealthiest superannuants who gobbled up an additional $300 million at the same time as Abbott was cutting Indigenous programs.) Abbott’s hand-picked adviser on Indigenous education (a non-Indigenous person) is doing a review of education – and, with some prescience, announced the outcomes before he commenced the review. Two of Abbott’s mates, Estens and Tudge, are recommending ‘transitional’ jobs, aka jobs which will have lesser pay and fewer conditions for Indigenous persons. And here’s a prediction: if the Abbott Government can find a way of gaining direct control of the Indigenous Land Corporation funds and the Indigenous Business Australia funds, it will do so.

    So while the Mad Monk is preaching a holy jihad on behalf of Indigenous people, the Abbott Government’s real war on Indigenous people has already started.

    Meh. White man speaks with forked tongue.

  36. zoomster

    MTBW

    sorry, but Diog asked me to justify something when I was only answering his question. (and seriously, diog can look after himself – what business is it of yours how I talk to him? Talk about interfering old busy bodies…)

  37. William Bowe

    [zoomster

    You need to keep in mind that most of us here are adults.

    Do you address those in your class room like you speak to people on here.

    Enough already!]

    Huh?

  38. AussieAchmed

    Griffith by election betting:

    Labor $1.12; Liberal $5.50

  39. ruawake

    Abbott did not want a referendum into recognition to mess up his election strategy, it may have moved him off message.

    So he got Brandis to fluff about lack of consultation, when it was Abbott et al that killed it off. I reckon the same thing will happen next tine a referendum is put forward, it will never be quite the proper time for the Libs.

  40. Boerwar

    Zoomster

    Take heart, your situation was covered by Johne Donne, many centuries ago:

    [THE SUN RISING.
    by John Donne

    BUSY old fool, unruly Sun,
    Why dost thou thus,
    Through windows, and through curtains, call on us ?
    Must to thy motions lovers’ seasons run ?
    Saucy pedantic wretch, go chide
    Late school-boys and sour prentices,
    Go tell court-huntsmen that the king will ride,
    Call country ants to harvest offices ;
    Love, all alike, no season knows nor clime,
    Nor hours, days, months, which are the rags of time.

    …]

    http://www.luminarium.org/sevenlit/donne/sunrising.htm

  41. confessions

    Boerwar:

    As usual your unique way with words has cut this down to what it really is:

    [White man speaks with forked tongue.]

  42. Rex Douglas

    Just wondering whether the WA ALP are campaigning against the shark cull program ?

  43. zoomster

    Boer

    a poem I’ve always loved!

  44. Boerwar

    rua

    [Abbott did not want a referendum into recognition to mess up his election strategy, it may have moved him off message.

    So he got Brandis to fluff about lack of consultation, when it was Abbott et al that killed it off. I reckon the same thing will happen next tine a referendum is put forward, it will never be quite the proper time for the Libs.

    by ruawake on Jan 26, 2014 at 4:29 pm]

    The reactionaries were petrified that the changes would be to the body of the Constitution in which case, depending on the substance of the changes, Indigenous people might no longer be totally dependent on the Mad Monks of Australia for whatever they decide to piss down on them. Potentially, in such circumstances, Indigenous people could take issues themselves off to the High Court instead.

    My guess is that Abbott, with Mundine in tow, will come up with some mealy-mouthed set of words in the Preamble. They will sell this to the reactionaries and the shock jocks as not making any real differences while at the same time taking all the pressure off genuine Constitutional change. Further, they will be able to put it up and put Labor into a position of seeming to oppose Indigenous ‘progress’. In such a scenario, the only real interest is whether Pearson, who would be fully aware of the implications of the difference between Preamble and Body of the Constitution, finally parts public company with Abbott.

  45. poroti

    Rex Douglas

    Not a lot of info so far but there is a real push back from the plebs. Perhaps Labor is sitting back so as not to make it a political he said she said, just letting people soak up another Emperor Omnishambles ? Oh and on this Straya Day

    [Drum lines catch first shark]
    http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/wa/a/21036468/first-drum-lines-set-off-wa-coast/

  46. leon

    So Diog., Butler is a good guy albeit one with very poor judgement.

  47. Boerwar

    Barnett has jumped the shark?

  48. Boerwar

    Cf Butler.

    IMHO, it is a special quality of rotten apples that they tend to leave the people around them only with bad choices.

    The Liberals are finding this with whatever they might do, for example, with the PPL.

    One down. One to go.

  49. leon

    A white pointer I hope BW.

  50. confessions

    [Just wondering whether the WA ALP are campaigning against the shark cull program ?]

    Not really. More how its implementation has been handled.

  51. Rex Douglas

    Would really like to know Fed/State ALP’s position on the shark cull program.

    I’m appalled at the policy and would be shocked if the ALP weren’t.

  52. leon

    Sadly Victoria the Australian flag is now identical to the Boganian flag.

  53. poroti

    Boerwar

    😆 But he very may well have.

  54. Boerwar

    v
    Nice link. It is good to be reminded of the many, many good things about Australia.

  55. victoria

    leone

    I concur. It has become a pet hate of mine

  56. leon

    I can’t recall the WA opposition leader making a statement on the moral or ethical position re the shark cull.

  57. victoria

    Boerwar

    Indeed. My frustration lies with the rotten apple and his fellow travellers, and to the damage they are inflicting on this place.

  58. confessions

    leon:

    I can’t recall one from him either.

  59. Carey Moore

    Just curious: What’s the opinion of the general WA public on shark culling?

    Not that it should define the ALP’s principles and something that’s wrong is wrong but it could shed some light on the volume of the ALP’s voice on this issue.

  60. Centre

    Great to see Adam Goodes get the Australian of the year award.

    So when is Abbott going to honour his election promise and spend time with Indigenous Australians?

    In the election campaign he pleaded and begged them to let him visit them straight after the election.

    A truly pathetic individual (Abbott)

  61. ruawake

    In Qld:
    [2,000 strong protest against Qld bikie laws]

    [With their cries and cheers echoing down to police headquarters, thousands of people filled a Brisbane park to protest the Newman government’s anti-association laws.
    They were standing, sitting and leaning against each other in Emma Miller Place, a small park named for the pioneer unionist and suffragette in the city’s centre, just metres from where the city’s top cops work – more than 2000 people listening in solidarity, as relatives and friends told the stories of loved one arrested under the VLAD laws.]

    Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/2000-strong-protest-against-qld-bikie-laws-20140126-31gkv.html#ixzz2rTusRbbN

    Newman’s grip on working class Brisbane has evaporated.

  62. Diogenes

    Jackol

    Abbott’s policy has been to recognise the indigenous as the first inhabitants in the preamble to the constitution. I don’t think it’s more or less than that.

    I gather Nova Peris and Ken Wyatt are chairing the committee to come up with the wording.

  63. Steve777

    I cannot recall Tony Abbott or any other prominent Liberal even mention the issue of constitutional recognition for Indigenous Australians during the previous parliament. They may have done so but it was way down their list of priorities.

    Admittedly Labor wasn’t pushing too strongly either. Had Julia Gillard proposed a referendum question that proposed anything more than the blandest statement that the indigenous people were here first (or even if she proposed that), the Right would have seen this as a dogwhistling opportunity too good to pass up – special treatment for one race, native title claims on your back yard, that sort of thing.

  64. poroti

    Carey Moore

    [What’s the opinion of the general WA public on shark culling?]

    Hard to tell but my guess is that it mirrors the “locals” reaction in the NT when the regular as clockwork calls for culling crocs pop up. Real click bait stuff up there. The locals are very much against it. Common arguments against are that it’s their environment , they were here first, we are trespassing on their territory, it’s part of life in the NT so accept it .

  65. leon

    A bit like an inverted pyramid Victoria. One rotten apple, a cluster of fellow travellers and a gaggle of turncoats with true believers above. No wonder it all came crashing down.

  66. ruawake

    Diog

    What Abbott wants will no be enough, this is what Recognise want.

    [Remove Section 25 – which says the States can ban people from voting based on their race;
    Remove section 51(xxvi) – which can be used to pass laws that discriminate against people based on their race;
    Insert a new section 51A – to recognise Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples and to preserve the Australian Government’s ability to pass laws for the benefit of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples;
    Insert a new section 116A, banning racial discrimination by government; and
    Insert a new section 127A, recognising Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander languages were this country’s first tongues, while confirming that English is Australia’s national language.]

  67. Centre

    For those interested in the tennis:

    Wawrinka $6.00

    Nadal $ 1.20

    On Betfair and you WILL get on!

    Have a look at the holdings waiting to be matched?

  68. confessions

    Carey:

    I couldn’t say with any certainty. There have been protests, the largest being around 4000 people against the laws.

    Interestingly I remember reading the other day that Greg Hunt opposed the original plans for having the great white taken off the protected species register, and for a more widespread and ambitious shark cull originally proposed by Barnett.

  69. bemused

    victoria@50

    Put away the flags and enjoy your country on Australia Day

    http://www.theage.com.au/comment/put-away-the-flags-and-enjoy-your-country-on-australia-day-20140125-31fm4.html

    victoria, that is a great article and you have not done it justice in promoting it.

    Thank you for linking it and I recommend everyone read it.

  70. Centre

    Diog

    It won’t happen under Abbott’s watch. Abbott is a fake and a phony. He is against any recognition of indigenous Australians.

    I would bet that he does nothing!

  71. rossmcg

    Boerwar

    Very good
    The mystery of the shark cull, officially the shark mitigation strategy or something, is finding somebody apart from the redneck shoot it chop it down dig it up mob who actually believes it will work. even our resident Tory booster Paul Murray gave Barnett a serve in The west Australian yesterday, pointing to scientific evidence that the whole thing is a farce.
    the shark caught today was a Tiger shark. My son, who takes an interest in these things tells me that the last fatal attack involving a tiger shark in WA was 70 years ago or something.

  72. Carey Moore

    Thanks poroti and confessions

  73. victoria

    leon

    [A bit like an inverted pyramid Victoria. One rotten apple, a cluster of fellow travellers and a gaggle of turncoats with true believers above. No wonder it all came crashing down.]

    Indeed

  74. AussieAchmed

    WA Labor have spoken out strongly against the cull

  75. mari

    Kevin Bonham
    Posted Sunday, January 26, 2014 at 3:02 pm | PERMALINK

    I have tweeted each of your great blogs and a good response, eg today I think 6 plus retweets already

  76. leon

    Carey, maybe it’s the restricted circle I move in, but I’ve yet to hear anyone of my acquaintance express any support for a shark cull. Hunter S Thompson in The Great Shark Hunt expressed the view that if you caught a shark you should have to kill the shark – and then eat it. I’d like to see Colin do that.

  77. deblonay

    Poroti/Boerwar
    _______________

    You’r both right re a Gulf War
    I read too that the Chinese have a new surface-sea based missile that they say can travel a good way and can be launched from a smallcraft …with devestating results even on big ships…as they are launched in swarms

    As Boerwar said…the US has a poor record in wars since 1945…at immense cost… they generally lose

    Yet Psephos says Iran must be
    ‘dealt with”…So who pays and who does the dying in the next Gulf War” …I suspect not his Israeli friends who always expect others top do that

  78. victoria

    bemused

    Cheers

  79. Centre

    Goal

    FC 1 Victory ZIP

    I hope another 5 find the back of the net 😛

  80. rossmcg

    the other thing about the WA shark cull is the contracted fisherman has been all over TV with his face hidden, there is talk of him getting police protection, the usual crap about how greenies are dangerous etc.
    They just showed some film on the news break in the cricket in which there was some pixelation of a face on the boat which was pulling in the shark but you could read the boat’s number!
    I think this is something that was dreamed up in the premiers Dept to give the emperor some clothes has real potential to make him look like an even bigger dill than he is.

  81. himi

    I may regret sticking my oar into this stuff (again), but I really feel I need to comment on some of the things people said in the last thread about Gillard’s wardrobe choices and general presentation.

    I think I can sum up my gut response to almost all of the discussion in two words (and one compound expletive, which really is necessary): Who the fsck /cares/? With the corollary: What the fsck makes anyone think they have a right to comment on these matters?

    Gillard, Bligh, Plibersek, Wong, Bishop the Elder, Bishop the Younger, in fact /any/ of the women who received commentary on their presentation, all have the absolute right to dress, bejewel, make up and smell any way they choose. The only comment that anyone else has a right to make is an expression of their /own personal opinion/ about that choice. Nothing else, nothing more, and most /certainly/ nothing along the lines of “getting it wrong” or “getting it right”.

    As for anything like a Women’s Weekly photo spread . . . again, who /cares/? Hell, if she did a photo shoot for Playboy it would be up to her.

    Why are these people being judged on such things? They deserve to be judged on their actions, not on stupid petty crap like their choice of clothing, whether they show a bit of cleavage, whether they wear pearls or not.

    I’ll readily admit that most of the world doesn’t live up to the standard I’m demanding here, and that many of the choices that people make have impacts on their careers and the like, but that will never change if what are fundamentally sexist judgements aren’t called out.

    himi

  82. Rex Douglas

    Unfortunately the MSM have in the past given voice on Australia Day to the minority who are intolerant and consumed with fear/hatred.

    I’ve no doubt the vast majority of Australians treat Australia Day the way it should be treated, with a recognition of how lucky we are to live in relative peace and good fortune.

  83. confessions

    rossmcg:

    I wasn’t aware they’d confirmed the species of shark yet?

  84. leon

    Aussie A, Thought Labor’s opposition to the shark cull was on the lines of ” You’ve stuffed the process and it won’t work anyway”.

  85. Rex Douglas

    Thanks to WA PBers for shark cull feedback.

    AussieAchmed #76, would you have a link to a relevant statement or article ?

  86. Diogenes

    ru

    [Insert a new section 127A, recognising Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander languages were this country’s first tongues, while confirming that English is Australia’s national language.]

    Given that we don’t even have a national language, that seems pretty pointless.

  87. himi

    poroti@66

    Carey Moore


    What’s the opinion of the general WA public on shark culling?


    Hard to tell but my guess is that it mirrors the “locals” reaction in the NT when the regular as clockwork calls for culling crocs pop up. Real click bait stuff up there. The locals are very much against it. Common arguments against are that it’s their environment , they were here first, we are trespassing on their territory, it’s part of life in the NT so accept it .

    Huh – I don’t recall any calls to cull crocs in the Territory while I was living there, but that’s not the response I’d have expected. It’s rather nice to hear that they’re against the idea, in general.

    himi

  88. MTBW

    vic

    Thanks from me as well! What a beautiful description of our Country and beautifully written.

  89. confessions

    Rex D:

    Labor’s fisheries spokesperson has been running a Facebook campaign against the shark cull. Reader survey (FWIW):
    https://www.facebook.com/DaveKellyMLA/posts/583189745095702

  90. lizzie

    Diog

    So what’s the Macquarie Dictionary about?

  91. deblonay

    Re Referendum on the indigenous place in Oz Constitution
    ____________________________
    I have a sinking feeling that such a poll will provide a chance for all the racist bigots…Jones/Bolte/the maddies on Cattalaxy/the wide ranging Right… to oppose it…and giving the dubious history of Referendums… I think it will fail…and then the whole situation will be worse than ever…and far Right will claim victory
    Sorry to voice that view but I think that will happen….one hears this view on talk-backs…this week in Melb after the Cook’s Cottage vandalism…much anti-black sentiment…some quite poisonous..Bolt/Jones stuff really

    just as there is always the anti-Islamist stuff bubbling along

  92. Rex Douglas

    Thanks confessions. Only 24% in favour says a lot.

  93. bemused

    himi@83

    I may regret sticking my oar into this stuff (again), but I really feel I need to comment on some of the things people said in the last thread about Gillard’s wardrobe choices and general presentation.

    himi

    You seem to be entirely missing the point that a Prime Minister, be they female or male, has to look and act the part.

    And being a willing participant in dumb things like the WW photo spread did not assist her. Nor would it have assisted a male PM.

  94. leon

    Thanks for reminding me about the cricket Ross. After reuniting my fostered magpie chicks with their biological parents this morning I’ve been at a bit of a loss. Australia Day was threatening death through boredom, in the vein of Good Friday and New Year Day.

  95. poroti

    himi

    Numbers have built up a lot in the NT , crocs and peoples, in recent years.I was up there for a few years from the mid 2000’s . Any attack/death inevitably resulted in such calls. It was a big surprise to me that the local radio callers , NT News comments sections and the people I worked with were heavily on the croc’s side.

    The acceptance of crocs as a fact of life had become a mark of being a Territorian. It was those bloody namby pamby Southerners who wanted to cull them.

  96. Carey Moore

    English is Australia’s de facto official language. Meaning it’s not legally so. And for good reason: because it’s unnecessarily rigid to legally mandate an official language. It’s English because all but a very small minority speak it and all signage and official documentation is written in it.

    If, in the future, Australian society has trended to speaking another language, then that would become the de facto official language, by virtue of consensus, not legislation (although, bilingualism would probably be the middle point in such a scenario.)

  97. Rex Douglas

    bemused #95

    What a load of crap.

  98. frednk

    [
    leon
    Posted Sunday, January 26, 2014 at 4:47 pm | Permalink

    Sadly Victoria the Australian flag is now identical to the Boganian flag.
    ]
    But, can Australia have it back one day of the year.

  99. poroti

    A reminder for non Sandgropers of earlier anti Emperor protests over his shark policy held in his heartland.

    [Thousands of Western Australians gathered at Cottesloe Beach on Saturday morning to protest the state government’s controversial shark mitigation program.

    The crowd, estimated to be more than 4000, braved the windy conditions to condemn the program, which will see baited drum lines placed one kilometre offshore at Ocean Reef and Mullaloo, Trigg and Scarborough, Floreat and City Beach, Cottesloe and North Cottesloe and Port and Leighton beaches.]

    http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/thousands-gather-at-cottesloe-beach-to-protest-shark-kill-policy-20140104-30amo.html

  100. confessions

    himi:

    I don’t get it either. Gillard always looked professional and presentable, which is all that can be asked of any public figure.

    What people were arguing this morning was really personal preferences, which are always going to be diverse, and quite frankly, irrelevant.

  101. Carey Moore

    I actually don’t think the WW photoshoot mattered. It was actually pretty innocuous and, under normal circumstances, nobody (except the usual suspects) would care if a leader posed for such a thing. It just happened to be that Gillard was in complete freefall, losing control of her leadership and losing supporters everywhere, that everything she did (including the photoshoot) was reacted to with disapproval and disgust.

  102. bemused

    frednk@99

    Is a person who flys an Australian flag on Australia day a bogan?

    http://www.theage.com.au/comment/put-away-the-flags-and-enjoy-your-country-on-australia-day-20140125-31fm4.html

    There is a high probability. 😛

  103. bemused

    Rex Douglas@100

    bemused #95

    What a load of crap.

    Thank you Rex, now I know I must have been correct. 👿

  104. badcat

    [ deblonay

    Posted Sunday, January 26, 2014 at 5:17 pm | Permalink

    Poroti/Boerwar
    _______________

    You’r both right re a Gulf War
    ]

    ——————————————————-

    Just watched an excellent documentary by war news watcher Danny Schechter exposing the media’s complicity with the US military in its reporting of the Gulf War

    It was enitled “WMD -Weapons of Mass Deception” as part of a 3DVD package “War On Iraq” ( other 2 parts – Truth,Lies and Intelligence ( lots on Andrew Wilkies ‘whistlelblowing’ – and Outfoxed – Rupert Murdochs use of his news empire as a propaganda machine for the Bush admin. )

    ….. I had to laugh when the original code-name for the attack was *Operation Iraqi Liberation* till someone realised that could be reduced to OIL …. so it was changed to *Operation Iraqi Freedom* ……

  105. rossmcg

    Leon

    Good to hear you have looking after the Maggies. I have a few loving around the park near my house, fascinating birds to watch with their antics.

    this is about the first time this summer I have had the cricket on for any length of time. I decided early in the Teat series that the Channel nine crew were too much and that lead into not taking much notice of the one dayers. I watched the end of the tour down under and left the TV on.
    Not really that interested beyond noticing that Michael Slater is as silly today as he was on day one of the first test back in November.

  106. poroti

    badcat

    [Rupert Murdochs use of his news empire as a propaganda machine for the Bush admin.]
    Ya mean 170 odd ,totally independent, Murdoch editors around the globe on the eve of the war declaring it was all good was not a coincidence ? 😆

  107. Boerwar

    I’ll never forget Colin Powell’s remote sensing ‘proof’ of WMDs. I was with a small group of remote sensing experts when it was broadcast.

    They called ‘bullshit’ straight away.

  108. confessions

    Jordan on a hat trick.

    Where has this English bowling been all summer?

  109. rossmcg

    Boerwar

    I too remember powell’s WMD presentation. I doubt he has that one on a DVD for when he is mulling over great moments in his career.

  110. Just Me

    [Hard to tell but my guess is that it mirrors the “locals” reaction in the NT when the regular as clockwork calls for culling crocs pop up. Real click bait stuff up there. The locals are very much against it.]

    Until the crocs start turning up on the local beaches. 😉

  111. himi

    poroti@97

    himi

    Numbers have built up a lot in the NT , crocs and peoples, in recent years.I was up there for a few years from the mid 2000′s . Any attack/death inevitably resulted in such calls. It was a big surprise to me that the local radio callers , NT News comments sections and the people I worked with were heavily on the croc’s side.

    I left to study down south in ’99 – it’s great to know that the numbers are up, and that there’s plenty of support for them to stay up. Not so great for the people taken (I imagine still mostly young Aboriginals from communities, sadly), but it’s definitely the same scenario as the sharks – it’s their territory, if someone makes the mistake of entering it they may have to wear the consequences.

    The acceptance of crocs as a fact of life had become a mark of being a Territorian. It was those bloody namby pamby Southerners who wanted to cull them.

    heh – as it should be 😉

    himi

  112. Boerwar

    Reminds me of the old Roper River Classic.

    A group of Aborigines are fishing from the bank of the Roper and a Down Souther comes along. He wants to go swimming so he asks the locals whether there are any salties about.

    ‘No mate, not salties around here.’

    So he goes for a swim. As he splashing around, one of the locals says,

    ‘Hey mate you want to be careful of the sharks.’

  113. feeney

    FWIW I was polled for Griffith voting intention on Friday evening.

  114. Centre

    The US acted very quickly to go to war with Iraq.

    Hans Blix was on the verge of declaring Iraq WMDs free. He requested just two more weeks to make it all official.

    Of course they didn’t give him the two weeks, the matter was far too urgent, urgent to go to war.

    I get the impression Blair probably regrets it but Howard would never lose any sleep over it.

  115. taylormade

    Good god, am hoping that shark attack at Jan Juc is a false alarm. Surfed there for 2 hrs this morning.

  116. poroti

    Boerwar

    It was when I lost faith in the 4th estate and started to believe in the 5th . Every “proof” offered up by Shrub, Blah and the Rodent, all faithfully reported in Mordor Media, for WMD’s was shot down within a day or even hours on the internet. Niger yellow cake, ,mobile biological weapon trucks , aluminium centrifuge tubes etc etc.

    It is why I believe, Bush , Howard , Murdoch and Blair should be tried as war criminals. Their claims that they relied on “intelligence reports” is shite to the max. FMD the Niger yellowcake bullshit claim was shown within hours to be plagiarised from an Italian student’s essay. But did it stop Howard , Bush and Blair repeating the bullshit ? Shit no they kept on repeating such bullshit and Murdoch’s minions kept reporting it uncritically.

  117. bemused

    Boerwar@116

    Reminds me of the old Roper River Classic.

    A group of Aborigines are fishing from the bank of the Roper and a Down Souther comes along. He wants to go swimming so he asks the locals whether there are any salties about.

    ‘No mate, not salties around here.’

    So he goes for a swim. As he splashing around, one of the locals says,

    ‘Hey mate you want to be careful of the sharks.’

    A reversal of the one I heard at Weipa where the Southerner inquires if there are any sharks in the water and gets a reply in the negative.

    After he enters the water it is followed by: Naaah mate, the crocs got them all.

  118. rossmcg

    Centre

    If Blair has any regrets if is probably only because of the odium he is copping still all these years after. Howard just flies under the radar.
    I remember thinking (hoping) at the time that Blair was too smart to get sucked in by the neocons and would act as some sort of brake on Bush’s ambitions. How wrong i was.

  119. Tricot

    The great WA public is split on the shark cull.

    The government hates the word ‘cull’ and have tried to avoid it by giving it some silly title like ‘shark amelioration program’ or some such like.

    It is generally admitted, with the West newspaper leading the way, that this is a political fix for a political problem. Something along the lines of “We should do something. This is the best we can come up with for the time being.”

    It seems generally accepted that the whole policy is rushed, poorly executed and with no guarantee of success.

    A picture of The Emperor with a big hook in his hand a week or two ago has been viewed with derision.

    Don’t think there was anything in this for Labor only adding to the perception, even such a short time after the election, with over three years to go, that Barnett, if not his government, is probably terminal.

  120. Tom the first and best

    68

    Section 25 does not actually authorise the states to racially discriminate with voting. It actually punishes them for doing so because it removes the people denied the vote from the states population count for determining how many seats the state gets.

    It is a watered down version of the second section of 14th Amendment of the United States Constitution which is designed to stop states in the USA (mainly in the South) from having representatives for (mainly African-American) voters they are blocking from voting.

    It has been obsolete since 1962 when the last race based election laws disappeared from the statue books in Australia.

    In 1967 the voters rejected the proposal that included removing section 25.

    The best way to get rid of the current section 25 is to switch from population to enrolment for dividing the seats among the states, probably with a right to vote grantee in there as well. This removes the racial wording of section 25 but keeps the protection and expends it to all other categories of person. States with more children and/or non-citizens will no longer get more representation, per voter, than those with fewer.

  121. Boerwar

    poroti
    Yep. Lies abound.

  122. Bar Bar

    Carey Moore #104: WW photoshoot was done almost immediately JG became prime minister, not when she was ïn “complete freefall” as you have it. To the contrary, it was done when she was at the height of favourable interest.

    But instead of presenting herself as a leader/woman/authority figure of substance of substance she chose to go the airhead, 30 something makeover look – never recovered from that impression. Kept up the pearls for the whole duration of her tenure as PM.

  123. himi

    Just Me@114


    Hard to tell but my guess is that it mirrors the “locals” reaction in the NT when the regular as clockwork calls for culling crocs pop up. Real click bait stuff up there. The locals are very much against it.


    Until the crocs start turning up on the local beaches.

    No one goes swimming in the ocean! It’s either too bloody cold (for values of cold that make me laugh nowadays, living around Canberra as I do now) or too full of box jellyfish. If you want to swim, you go to the pool, Howard Springs, Berry Springs, or possibly out to Litchfield if you want to bother with the longer drive. The beach is for having the odd barbecue, walking, flying kites, and setting off firecrackers on the 1st of July. Occasionally you might try fishing, but they tend to be so flat that beach fishing would be problematic.

    Most of the croc attacks happen in estuarine rivers well away from Darwin – without checking the last fifteen years worth of stats I can’t say with 100% certainty, but it always used to be the case that it was Aboriginals in remote communities, generally either kids or an occasional incautious/unlucky adult who are taken. Occasionally a dumb tourist would ignore the croc warning signs and swim somewhere they shouldn’t or set up camp too close to the river. Even more occasionally a fisherman would get pissed as a newt and do something dumb enough to attract the attention of a croc – evolution in action.

    Far more common are dogs and cattle being taken when they come down to the river for a drink.

    himi

  124. William Bowe

    [Good god, am hoping that shark attack at Jan Juc is a false alarm.]

    A “Facebook fantasy”, according to an ambulance spokesman with a nice line in alliteration.

    http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/shark-sighting-reported-at-torquay-beach-20140126-31gml.html

  125. Carey Moore

    I assumed we were referring to the knitting photo. I apologise if that wasn’t the case.

  126. rossmcg

    Boerwar/Poroti

    On Murdoch’s support for the Iraq war, I recall reading somewhere that when asked for his reasons for supporting the war he said “how about oil at 25 dollars a barrel?” That worked out well.

  127. Centre

    rossmsg

    I wonder if Blair was in a position where he could not jeopardise the UK/USA partnership.

    Still, he should have put Bush in his place and told him to pull his head in.

    poroti

    Yes of course, Bush, Blair and Howard should be tries for war crimes.

    They are mass murderers in my opinion.

  128. Jackol

    I get the impression Blair probably regrets it

    That’s not the impression I get. It’s been more than a decade and whenever he is asked on the subject, even though he is no longer in the rough and tumble of politics, all he does is defend his decision. No indication of regrets or mistakes made etc.

    I think he regrets the fact it wasn’t the triumphal, quick, success they pumped each other into believing it would be (the locals will throw flowers at our soldiers’ feet!), and Blair’s “legacy”, whatever that might be, is now overshadowed by the Iraq misadventure.

  129. Boerwar

    How can there be forgiveness? How can there be even a reasonable relationship between states? This guy essentially condoning mass rape:

    http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2014/01/25/national/new-nhk-chief-comfort-women-only-wrong-per-todays-morality-programming-must-push-japans-territorial-stances/

    This comes from a state that the Abbott Government has declared to be Australian’s ‘best friend’ in Asia.

  130. himi

    Damn HTML! Stop confusing me with your crazy angled brackets and forward slashes and stuff!

    (as a programmer, occasional web developer and systems administrator I have no excuse. Sorry everyone.)

    himi

  131. lizzie

    Tony Abbott’s world of women.
    pic.twitter.com/Ft1a2Coqsz

  132. Boerwar

    [Jackol
    Posted Sunday, January 26, 2014 at 6:21 pm | Permalink

    I get the impression Blair probably regrets it]

    Not half as much as he would regret it if the people of Fallujah could get hold of him.

  133. Boerwar

    [Far more common are dogs and cattle being taken when they come down to the river for a drink.

    himi]

    And, when I lived on Victoria River Downs, the horses.

  134. poroti

    rossmcg

    Just last week a mile and a half away from CTar1’s London pad Tony Blah whilst at an uber trendy eatery had an attempted citizens arrest laid on him. So very NOT sad that he is hounded so. Seems there is even a bounty on Blair.

    [Twiggy Garcia, who attempted citizen’s arrest on Tony Blair awarded over £2000 ]

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/twiggy-garcia-who-attempted-citizens-arrest-on-tony-blair-awarded-over-2000-9078074.html

  135. Boerwar

    There were certain well-known risk assessment procedures in the Territory.

    To check for crocs, throw in your neighbour’s dogs.
    To check for cigatuera poisoning, feed some of the fish to your neighbour’s cat.
    To check for poisonous snakes on a foot track after dark, ‘After you, sir.’

    And so on and so forth.

  136. absolutetwaddle

    I for one am very pleased Saddam Hussein is a goner and remain unimpressed by the anti-war ‘left’. If Tony Blair and George W. Bush (and John Howard for that matter) don’t regret throwing that evil megalomaniac out of power then good for them.

  137. briefly

    [73
    rossmcg

    The mystery of the shark cull….

    the shark caught today was a Tiger shark. My son, who takes an interest in these things tells me that the last fatal attack involving a tiger shark in WA was 70 years ago or something.]

    There’s no point trying to hunt tiger sharks. Though they occur all along the WA coast, they are most numerous in the warmer waters of northern WA, where they feed on Spanish mackerel, turtles and sea snakes. They are really not interested in humans at all. If they were, there would be plenty of opportunity for them among the divers working in the pearling and gas industries in waters from Onslow to Broome or along any swimming or surfing beach around the SW.

    If the Queensland experience is anything to go by, about 50 tiger sharks will be killed for every Great White that might also be taken. Significant numbers of other larger species will also be killed, even though they are very rarely associated with attacks on humans. While the Whites do attack humans, essentially they prey on the seals, sea lions and whales which are again becoming numerous along the WA coast. If they occur at all along our coast, it is because they are traveling to or from the Kangaroo Island nursery, and not because they are prowling our favourite beaches looking for a feed.

    As long as there is a breeding population of Great Whites at all, and an attractive in-shore food supply, transient adults will be found along the WA littoral. We don’t really know how many of these ocean-going, pelagic travelers traverse our waters each year. The number may be as low as a few dozen or possibly even less. Setting out to kill them when we know so little about them really puts brutality and fear of the unknown ahead of reason, inquiry and practicality.

    In the event, the WA Government will probably kill one White every month or so and up to 70 other non-threatening animals in what can only be described as the indiscriminate and pointless destruction of rare wildlife, all of which plays in an important part in the marine ecosystem.

  138. confessions

    [A picture of The Emperor with a big hook in his hand a week or two ago has been viewed with derision.]

    And widely used as well.

  139. poroti

    rossmcg

    [Just weeks before the invasion, he declared: “The greatest thing to come out of this for the world economy would be $20 a barrel for oil. That’s bigger than any tax-cut in any country.”]

  140. briefly

    [85
    confessions

    rossmcg:

    I wasn’t aware they’d confirmed the species of shark yet?]

    from the pic, it does look like a tiger…

    http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/western-australia/first-shark-killed-in-controversial-wa-catchandkill-policy/story-fnhocxo3-1226810652353

  141. badcat

    [ Boerwar

    I get the impression Blair probably regrets it

    Not half as much as he would regret it if the people of Fallujah could get hold of him
    ]

    ———————————————–

    Not sure of the ‘impariality’ of the source but in todays Pravda :

    Fallujah: US Marines – Further Allegations of War Crimes Surface
    26.01.2014

    http://english.pravda.ru/opinion/columnists/26-01-2014/126680-fallujah_marines-0/

    As usual do your ***OWN*** research to verify/disregard whats being reported here ….

  142. Centre

    Abbott could not look at that women wearing the burka around her head in the eye when he was handing out the Australia Day awards.

    We all know here that I do not like Abbott. Abbott was my most disliked pollie even before he was elected to lead his party by a nose ahead of Peter Reith with Howard third.

    But I believe Abbott truly detests women. I’d like to hear the opinions of body language experts on Abbott’s disposition around women.

  143. Centre

    C’mon another two goals 🙂

  144. confessions

    briefly:

    In my view the shark cull is just a knee jerk populist response to give the appearance of doing something. Anything.

  145. confessions

    [from the pic, it does look like a tiger…]

    I’m no expert, so will happily take others’ views on the appearance.

  146. poroti

    absolutetwaddle

    Didn’t pick you as a supporter of the Tehran theocrats and Al Qaeda. They being the winners of the Bush stupid.

  147. Centre

    absolutewaddle

    What a silly post.

    The only people who liked Saddam Hussein were the Americans, before he moved in on Kuwait of course.

    The cost of the war in Iraq, to human life, far outweighed the killing of Hussein.

    Look, get real. They could have poisoned him or found other ways seriously.

  148. rossmcg

    Briefly

    You know that about sharks, I know that too. Emperor Barnett has probably been told that too. But he is a dill, and probably a badly advised dill too. His top media adviser Dixie Marshall probably thought getting col to pose with the big hook was a good idea. After all she comes from commercial tv and knows the image is everything. Not this time.

  149. AussieAchmed

    Rex Douglas

    Posted Sunday, January 26, 2014 at 5:26 pm | Permalink

    Thanks to WA PBers for shark cull feedback.

    AussieAchmed #76, would you have a link to a relevant statement or article ?
    ===================================

    No, but I have read their opposition in on-line news and I have been speaking with a couple Labor MP’s

  150. deblonay

    Agreed re Iraq War Criminals
    ____________________

    \as said by Boerwar/Poroti/Centre/Badcat and others ???

    >>>>>>>>
    But I have no doubts a similar crew with their Israeli lackeys would have us…and some(?) Australian boys would die ….in the war they want to wage on Iran at Netanyahuj’s behest
    Can’t you see Abbott playing the war leader as Howard did …it’s in their DNA…they love it !

    but I suspect in the USA there is a real public tide against any more such wars in the M East…and Iran has the backing of Russia and China ,,,and Turkey is now moving in the same way …towards a deal with Iran which has gas and oil which the Turks lack

    but a Psephos said “.Iran must be dealt with.”….Hillary will have the Jewish Lobby behind her and she is a “War Democrat”…as was her husband…and many Democrats in the past like Woodrow Wilson in 1917…one of the worst of them !

  151. AussieAchmed

    Saw film on telly…it looked like a tiger shark

  152. mexicanbeemer

    Iran is an interesting one, if the Middle East is too be stable then the lessons of history need to be taken into account, historically the Middle East is dominated by strong countries from one of three regions.

    Egypt
    Turkey
    Iran/Iraq

    I suspect the day will come when the Middle East will return to habit and those three parts will need to again become the dominate player.

    This is why i would like to see Egypt, Turkey and Iran or maybe Iraq or both gain a greater international status.

    Maybe a few could become members of a more representative UN SC minus veto rights.

  153. Boerwar

    [absolutetwaddle
    Posted Sunday, January 26, 2014 at 6:30 pm | Permalink

    I for one am very pleased Saddam Hussein is a goner and remain unimpressed by the anti-war ‘left’. If Tony Blair and George W. Bush (and John Howard for that matter) don’t regret throwing that evil megalomaniac out of power then good for them.]

    Meh. Simple as that, eh? We lefties always complicate stuff, right? Just as well we are not trying to ‘impress’ you then, hey?

    Some 300,000-500,000 kids perished in the anti-Hussein blockade (in which Australia participated). Untold hundreds of thousands of men, women and kids were killed or injured, and those deaths and injuries continue to this very day. Several million people have been driven out of their homes internally. Several more million people have been driven out of their country. That’s right: the equivalent to about the entire population of Melbourne has been chased out of their homes.

    Education and health services are less than what they were under Hussein. In any case, kids missed out on years of their education and risk being blown to pieces in a random sort of way if they go to school now.

    Electricity and sewage services are fitful, at best and worse than under Hussein. Democracy is essentially dead, with the leader of the opposition on the lam in fear for his life. The northern third of the country has essentially seced from the southern two thirds of the country. In the western bits of the country there is a three-cornered war going on that has created hundreds of thousands of refugees – aka potential illegals into Australia. Not to speak of the usual destruction of what is left of the infrastructure, housing and economy.

    I am no fan of Hussein.

    But the neocon war mongers, including Howard in particular, Blair and Bush, have a lot to answer for. They destroyed a country on the basis of a lie.

    There were NO weapons of mass destruction. But that did not stop the West wreaking mass destruction on Iraq.

    There was NO Al Qaeda under Hussein for the simple reason that they were a threat to him, but by golly Iraq is thick with them now.

  154. bemused

    From watching SBS News, I get the distinct impression that events surrounding Australian Citizenship ceremonies are being rapidly ‘boganised’. I suppose in this way ‘boganism’ will be propagated into all our ethnic communities which have so far resisted.

    Sad really. 🙁

  155. poroti

    deblonay

    [she is a “War Democrat]

    I was not here back then but the PB battle between the Obama and Hilary supporters was from all reports was EPIC.

  156. Centre

    One of your best Boer @ 158.

  157. ruawake

    Hawaii tried culling Tiger Sharks, did nothing.

    [Between 1959 and 1976, 4,668 tiger sharks were culled in an effort to protect the tourism industry. Despite these efforts, attacks did not decrease.]

  158. mexicanbeemer

    I love the Beach but surely everyone who goes into the surf knows that there is a risk of sharks.

  159. briefly

    [134….Boerwar]

    Yes, offering to excuse slavery, rape and every other depravity….

  160. absolutetwaddle

    Assassinating Saddam Hussein wouldn’t have given the Iraqi people the ability to vote and still would have led to thousands of ‘leftists’ on our streets mourning his passing.

    Now if you will excuse me I have to find this Salman Rushdie fellow, apparently because I’m glad to see Saddam Hussein dead and his party evaporated this means I’m a fan of Iran and the ayatollahs or something.

  161. rossmcg

    Boerwar

    Thanks for reminding me that Australian was participating in the anti saddam blockade… Well most of Australia was. except for the cowboys in charge at AWB.

  162. AussieAchmed

    Howard helped create the refugee problem and the Liberals turned their backs on the problem.

    Even today, the Liberals (Morrison) is not being decisive abotu assisting those who have assisted our troops and are under the threat of being murdered for helping.

  163. ruawake

    I go to the beach almost every day of the year, never been bothered by a shark. Except once a dead one washed up and the council had to dig a hole and bury it.

    Seems Barnett has run out of tough on crime stunts, now its tough on fish stunts.

  164. lizzie

    This was in 2010. More classy than Julia? Hmmm.

    [Tony Abbott spoke candidly about his sex life in an interview with Launceston’s The Examiner newspaper, saying he eschewed a “hair shirt” view of the good things in life.
    Although he bemoaned the fact it was difficult for him to have sex sometimes.
    “Let’s face it, it’s almost impossible to have when you are on the campaign trail,” Mr Abbott said.
    “And it is one of life’s great pleasures.”He said the inquiry about his sex life, linked to giving things up for Lent, was a very good question.]

  165. mexicanbeemer

    Assassinating Saddam might have sounded like a good idea but his two sons made Saddam look like a nice guy.

  166. Tricot

    Confessions – re the cull, I read it the same way.

    Reactionary Alston in the West has taken the tack of which is more important – human or shark lives?

    Mind you, he is so pro LNP in his cartoons these days he has ceased to be funny for some time now.

    At the height of the debate of whether to cull or not, the Queensland experience was trotted out in WA on many occasion, pointing out that there had not be a shark attack in 40 years or some such like.

    I would be interested to know what our Banana Benders think about this?

    I think most here take the view that the cull will not make much difference at all, but they are also cute enough to recognise that the government is doing something rather than nothing – even if it is of no value.

    On the other hand, Abbott is doing everything of no value. Much the same kind of story I suppose. Either do something which does not work, or do lots of things which equally don’t work. Take your pick.

  167. William Bowe

    [He said the inquiry about his sex life, linked to giving things up for Lent, was a very good question.]

    “I don’t care to talk about that” would have been a much better answer though, as it would have been when he was asked about his daughters’ maidenhood. The latter by the way was in the context of a Women’s Weekly puff piece, lest anyone think a weakness for such things is peculiar to Julia Gillard.

  168. briefly

    [164
    mexicanbeemer

    I love the Beach but surely everyone who goes into the surf knows that there is a risk of sharks.]

    Me too. I swam this morning in the Indian Ocean with dozens of others, including, in the knee-deep shallows, a marvelous clamour of youngsters and not a few toddlers. This was not far from the area where a 4m pointer was sighted yesterday. I’ve swum around the SW too where large pointers and hammerheads have been seen and at beaches where swimmers and surfers have been lost to sharks in the past.

    But we have helicopters and beach patrols and can make a judgment about the risks and our safety. We do not have to be bound by fear alone. We have the ability to think and act beyond fantasy-horror. Surely the Premier, of all people, should be able to lead us away from our fears.

  169. Bar Bar

    William Bowe: There is a difference between a woman establishing her image as the first female Prime Minister of this country, and an Opposition Leader looking for coverage.

    JG got 17-19 pages as I recall? As Marty would say, the airhead representation was the start of a slippery slope.

  170. briefly

    [163
    ruawake

    Hawaii tried culling Tiger Sharks, did nothing.

    Between 1959 and 1976, 4,668 tiger sharks were culled in an effort to protect the tourism industry. Despite these efforts, attacks did not decrease.]

    Killing sharks is just utterly pointless…

    http://gohawaii.about.com/od/mauiocean/a/shark_attacks.htm

    [Question: What is the historical data on shark attacks in Hawaii?
    Answer: From 1828 to December 2013 there have been 128 total unprovoked shark attacks in Hawaii. Ten of these were fatal attacks. (source – International Shark Attack File, Florida Museum of Natural History, University of Florida)

    Question: Are shark attacks the greatest risk in the waters of Hawaii?
    Answer: Definitely not. Far more people die each year of drowning than are injured as a result of a shark attack. The waters of Hawaii are very unpredictable. Currents and wave heights vary from day to day. An average of 60 people die each year by drowning in the waters of Hawaii.
    (source-State of Hawaii Department of Health Injury Prevention and Control Program)

    Question: Why do sharks attack humans?
    Answer: There are several possible explanations. First, there are forty species of sharks found in the waters of Hawaii. This is their natural environment. Of these eight are commonly seen near shore, including the Sandbar, Reef Whitetip. Scalloped Hammerhead and Tiger Shark. The waters of Hawaii are home to many of the prey of various shark species, such as monk seals, sea turtles and baby humpback whales. Humans are not a natural prey of sharks. It is likely that when an attack occurs, the human is mistaken for another prey. Sharks are also attracted to waters frequented by fishing boats, which often trail fish remains and blood.
    (source – Hawaiian Lifeguard Association)

    Question: What can one do to reduce the risk of being attacked by a shark?
    Answer: By learning more about sharks, and using a little common sense, the risk of injury can be greatly reduced. The State of Hawaii Shark Task Force recommends the following measures to reduce the risk of being bitten by a shark:

    Don’t swim alone.
    Swim in guarded areas.
    Avoid swimming at dusk.
    Don’t swim with bleeding wounds.
    Avoid murky water.
    Don’t wear bright jewelry or high contrasting colors.
    Refrain from excessive splashing.
    Don’t swim if sharks are known to be present.
    Be alert if turtles and fish are fleeing the area.
    Remove speared fish from the water.]

  171. imacca

    [Surely the Premier, of all people, should be able to lead us away from our fears.]

    No briefly. Remember, Barney is a Liberal. Liberals want you scared of something so they can play politics with it.

    For Barnett its the evil child snacking sharks.

    For Howard it was evil Unionists and Asylum Seekers.

    For Abbott its Asylum Seekers, but i’m sure he will get onto Unionists in due course but not in the context of WorkChoices as that is dead buried and cremated, and by the way AGW is total crap…….

    Fear, embedded deeply in the Liberal DNA, and brought to you by the shallow and slightly rancid end of the gene pool. 🙂

  172. briefly

    178
    imacca

    Thanks imacca, I’d forgotten your edict. Sadly, you’re right. Fear is a staple part of the menu for the LNP.

  173. confessions

    [“Let’s face it, it’s almost impossible to have when you are on the campaign trail,” Mr Abbott said.]

    File that one under TMI.

  174. poroti

    briefly

    [ Don’t wear bright jewelry or high contrasting colors.]

    In W.A. that is probably not the way to go. The Great Whites pig out on the seals that come up to breed. Wearing black wetsuits and paddling on surfboards would give a damn fine impersonation of a fat seal. Bright colours in the sea generally means feck off I’m poisonous or dangerous or both.