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Federal Politics 2013-

Feb 18, 2014

Essential Research: 51-49 to Labor

As the shine comes off Labor's recent polling surge in Newspoll and Nielsen, Essential Research has them finally moving into the lead.

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As other polls appear to be heading back in the other direction, the slow-moving Essential Research has Labor finally breaking into a lead of 51-49, compared with 50-50 over recent weeks. Labor has cracked 40%, up one point on last week, with the Coalition down two to 41%, the Greens steady on 8% and the Palmer United Party up a point to 4%. Other findings gauge concern about employment (55% express concern they or someone in their immediate family will lose their job in the next 12 months, up from 47% in August 2012), car industry assistance (46% think the government didn’t do enough to maintain car manufacturing in Australia, compared with 36% who think it did enough), the government’s approval of the coal port expansion at Abbot Point and related concerns about dredging and dumping at the Great Barrier Reef (66% disapprove of the decision, 41% strongly, with only 17% approving), and respondents’ level of interest in Schapelle Corby (71% professing little or no interest). Results courtesy of Bernard Keane at Crikey, with the full report to follow shortly.

UPDATE: Full report here.

William Bowe — Editor of The Poll Bludger

William Bowe

Editor of The Poll Bludger

William Bowe is a Perth-based election analyst and occasional teacher of political science. His blog, The Poll Bludger, is one of the most heavily trafficked forums for online discussion of Australian politics, and joined the Crikey stable in 2008.

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1627 comments

1,627 thoughts on “Essential Research: 51-49 to Labor

  1. davidwh

    I’m not sure a smartphone will help if you incorrectly plot X as the boundary in your equipment when in fact the boundary is located at Y Guytaur.

  2. frednk

    Navigation errors lead to sunk ships. Navy can’t navigate, ya sure!

  3. guytaur

    dwh

    Goofle maps has current location and name of destination. It will tell you which direction boundary is at.

  4. kezza2

    [davidwh
    Posted Wednesday, February 19, 2014 at 6:58 pm | PERMALINK
    Rex I know I am naive but I find it much easier to accept the navy erred than they deliberately entered another nations territory six times.]
    Are you serious?

    Shayus Kerrist. I certainly wouldn’t have accepted that had Labor come up with the same lame excuse. And nor would you. And nor would the msm.

    C’mon!

  5. guytaur

    dwh

    Again smart phone is minimum. What about Tablets and laptops?

    The excuse does not hold up.

  6. zoidlord

    @ruawake/1327

    In addition:

    http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/21543303/papua-new-guinea-police-fired-shots-twice-during-asylum-seeker-protest-on-manus-island-scott-morrison-says/

    “In all 77 people were injured, mostly suffering head injuries, in a violent clash that involved hundreds of asylum seekers, PNG police and G4S security contractors from the centre.”

    Thus confirmed G4S is hired by Australia.

  7. guytaur

    “@DrCraigEmerson: I’m sorry @spoon2011 but at some stage in your life you’ll have to stop blaming the Labor government for everything you don’t like.”

  8. DisplayName

    I find it hard to believe the navy made the same mistake 6 times.

  9. absolutetwaddle

    The tin-foil hat faction is out in force tonight.

    In my opinion the fact the incursions were inadvertent is more embarrassing for the Navy than if it had been busted entering Indonesia’s waters wilfully.

  10. Fulvio Sammut

    And even if Morrison grants refugee status to the traduced ten thousand, What of their countless relatives and associates who will be rounded up in the countries of origin and made to pay, possibly with their lives, on the refugees’ behalf?

    Morrison, you have their blood on your hands.

  11. ruawake

    We are being asked to believe that the Navy did not have maps of the Indonesian territorial waters, its just rubbish.

    It seems the individual Commanders were tasked with returning boats to Indonesia, they were told to do it safely, the only way to do it safely was to enter Indonesian territorial waters, so they did.

    Indonesia knows this, Abbott and Morrison and 3 balls General know this, it just us mushrooms they are trying to feed bullshit.

  12. DisplayName

    twaddle
    [The tin-foil hat faction is out in force tonight.]
    That’s your considered opinion, is it?

  13. kezza2

    [DisplayName
    Posted Wednesday, February 19, 2014 at 7:08 pm | PERMALINK
    I find it hard to believe the navy made the same mistake 6 times.]

    They didn’t. It was deliberate.

    It was to make sure they abided by the international law of the sea, rather than suborn themselves to a spiteful, vindictive, nasty, pathetic so-called Christian government of Australia.

    Abott has blood on his hands. Out damn spot, indeed!

  14. absolutetwaddle

    DisplayName

    “That’s your considered opinion, is it?”

    Yes it is, I’m very much hoping it catches on too.

  15. zoidlord

    @AW/1341

    If it catches on, then it will no longer be “your” opinion right?

  16. ruawake

    The Navy had two directives.

    1. Turn back the boats safely
    2. Do not enter Indonesian territory

    But it became, we cannot return the boats safely without entering Indonesian territory, so they were told to turn off the lights and compromised both directives.

    Someone gave this Order an in time we will know who.

  17. DisplayName

    Well it’s nice to know someone as informed as you who isn’t simply assigning whatever weight they feel like to their own opinions and guessing like the rest of us!

    I won’t ask your sources, no doubt they’re confidential.

  18. milenko

    Imacca @1306

    Might be worth someone looking at Kevin Andrews staff for undeclared interests , given recent ICCAC investigations the Libs corruption / jobs for mates will keep unfolding

  19. Rex Douglas

    ruawake
    Posted Wednesday, February 19, 2014 at 7:11 pm | PERMALINK
    We are being asked to believe that the Navy did not have maps of the Indonesian territorial waters, its just rubbish.

    It seems the individual Commanders were tasked with returning boats to Indonesia, they were told to do it safely, the only way to do it safely was to enter Indonesian territorial waters, so they did.

    Indonesia knows this, Abbott and Morrison and 3 balls General know this, it just us mushrooms they are trying to feed bullshit.

    So. I presume the life boat strategy is now kaput ?

  20. Fran Barlow

    Psephos

    [Of course the real blame for all these events rests with those who thought they could buy their way into Australia, knowing full well, as they did, that they were not entitled to come here. It also lies with those who encouraged them to do so, such as the ASRC and similar “refugee advocates.”]

    What nonsense. The IMAs didn’t compel Australia’s ALP and LNP regimes to respond this way. There were a number of other responses open to Australia — some just as bad, some worse and some far better from the POV of humanity. Once you kidnap someone, their responses can be seen as a response to coercion. So if the IMAs did riot they have a defence.

    They also had a right to seek protection from any jurisdiction that seemed apt, including Australia. If Australia was of the opinion that it simply didn’t want its responsibilities under the convention, it should have expressly repudiated them. But it should not have rendered them to some other jurisdiction. If you really don’t want them, then simply put them on the first plane to their place of origin. If you really don’t believe they are at risk and/or don’t care, that’s almost certainly less ethically fraught and less costly. The folks out Lindsay way would love it too.

    But PNG? Malaysia? That’s astonishing.

  21. guytaur

    @latingle: “@rustyrockets: THIS IS ASTONISHING. http://t.co/t1TDTA2TYW #auspol http://t.co/FJMmSSSgpU” GET READY” @NeilChenoweth goes global

  22. guytaur

    “@JNadanakumar: Speaking about ending racism and prejudice, @SenatorWong quotes Defence Chief: “The standard you walk past is the standard you accept.” #ANU”

  23. pom

    Can someone clarify things in regards to the legal position of the Manus Is. detention center. Who is responsible for the compound has the land been annexed from PNG. If PNG police attacked inmates within the compound does that fall within PNG or AU jurisdiction? It seems to me a real problem for Morriscum.

  24. guytaur

    Seems Morrison telling porkies again

    @KathViner: Asylum seeker data breach: Guardian Australia responds to Scott Morrison http://t.co/0xRSAgC5Yi

  25. kezza2

    [absolutetwaddle
    Posted Wednesday, February 19, 2014 at 7:10 pm | PERMALINK
    The tin-foil hat faction is out in force tonight.]

    That’d be the Coalition supporters wearing those tinfoil hats.

    They just can’t accept that the navy was ordered to incurse in Indonesian waters, to “turn back the boats”, to “stop the boats”, to “tow-back the boats”, to do anything other than let a boat anywhere near an Australian territory.

    After all, it’s not for the faint-hearted to accept the navy encourages sticking carrots or other phallic-shaped foodstuffs (or indeed milk bottles or light bulbs) up each others bums – to make sure they’re altogether now.

    If you admit this happened, then answer this . . .

    Did we inadvertently cross the Indonesian waters? Naaaaaaaaaaaah.

    See. Didn’t happen. How easy was that.

  26. milenko

    guytaur@1348

    Did Murdoch & Tony have an understanding that there would be no appeal by the Tax Office?

  27. ruawake

    Suck shit Morrison. When will your faith make you realise telling big fat porkies and blaming others has to stop.

    [Guardian Australia, which on Wednesday broke the story of the government’s massive data breach whereby the private information of almost 10,000 people in immigration detention in Australia was published on the Department of Immigration website, welcomes Scott Morrison’s admission that this is an “unacceptable incident” and “a serious breach of privacy by the Department of Immigration and Border Protection”. We welcome the review into how the breach occurred, and the privacy commissioner’s announced investigation.

    However there are a few points in the immigration minister’s statement which require a response.

    Morrison says the information was not “in an easily accessible format within the public domain”. Guardian Australia can confirm that the document was freely available for download from a public area of the department’s website, along with many other public files. The document and the data contained within it were straightforward to access.

    In his statement, Morrison reveals details about the document, including the date of its publication and the type of file. In a subsequent television interview, he named the document. Guardian Australia has not released the name or date of the document, to ensure no further breach of privacy.

    Morrison concludes his statement with this paragraph: “My department will also be requesting that the media organisation that published this data advise if they have disseminated the information to any other parties and to return all copies of the information to the department.”

    No such requests have yet been received by Guardian Australia from the department, but we can confirm that we have never published the data, including in our original story; that we have refused all requests for the data from other news organisations, to protect the privacy of those named; and that we have not disseminated the data in any way.

    Guardian Australia notified the department of the breach before publication, and did not publish until the document had been removed from the department’s website. We also notified the privacy commissioner of the breach.]

  28. pom

    With the radar set up on navy ships It would clearly indicate the distance of any land from the ship. How could they miss this?

  29. mari

    http://archiearchive.wordpress.com/2013/12/19/the-public-life-of-scott-morrison/

    Most interesting reading Was very impressed by Fran Bailey who saw through him and sacked him

  30. milenko

    guytaur

    Has there ever been a case involving $800+ million that wasn’t appealed?

  31. zoidlord

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-26158951

    “Parker, who is now a senior fellow at New America Foundation, a public policy institute, says: “One thing we’ve seen is that it’s not just authoritarian governments that are threatened by the internet.” ”

    Me looks at LNP/Coalition Goverment’s :S

  32. ruawake

    It just keeps on keeping on.

    [Victoria faces another blow to its economy after Royal Dutch Shell reportedly sold Geelong refinery, putting 500 jobs at risk.

    The oil major sold the asset and its Australian petrol stations to Dutch-owned oil trader Vitol and the Abu Dhabi Investment Council for about $2.4bn, Fairfax Media reports.

    The refinery, which struggles to compete with larger, more efficient facilities in Asia, faces an uncertain future.

    It is believed that Vitol, the world’s largest oil trader, has earmarked the 60-year-old refinery for closure once it takes control of the business.]

  33. guytaur

    milemko

    Not that I know

  34. ruawake

    [Has there ever been a case involving $800+ million that wasn’t appealed?]

    Nope, the ATO always exhaust all appeals. Only Hockey gives away almost a billion to his major backer.

  35. guytaur

    Centre will be happy

    @smh: Australia and New Zealand to host 2017 Rugby League World Cup. http://t.co/j0MTkglh59 #RLWC2017 via @SMHsport

  36. absolutetwaddle

    kezza2

    “After all, it’s not for the faint-hearted to accept the navy encourages sticking carrots or other phallic-shaped foodstuffs (or indeed milk bottles or light bulbs) up each others bums – to make sure they’re altogether now.”

    Your obsession with male assholes and what is or is not shoved up them can be rather surprising if one hasn’t encountered it for a while.

  37. guytaur

    “@beneltham: Rare Peter Dutton sighting on 730. Perhaps we should have asked him to hold up today’s newspaper”

  38. ruawake

    [“After all, it’s not for the faint-hearted to accept the navy encourages sticking carrots or other phallic-shaped foodstuffs (or indeed milk bottles or light bulbs) up each others bums – to make sure they’re altogether now.”]

    Maybe thats why they got lost, they had a carrot up thier GPS.

  39. guytaur

    @aussieguy48: Scott Morrison: Allow journalists access to the Manus Island detention centre http://t.co/wugsY7h9ea via @ChangeAUS

  40. kezza2

    [Morrison concludes his statement with this paragraph: “My department will also be requesting that the media organisation that published this data advise if they have disseminated the information to any other parties and to return all copies of the information to the department.”]

    Or, look out, another raid by the AFP – ordered by Brandis – to get hold of all msm data, whether relevant or not.

    The standard has been set. Vis a vis Channel 7, and associates, just yesterday.

    absolutetwaddle

    [Your obsession with male assholes and what is or is not shoved up them can be rather surprising if one hasn’t encountered it for a while.]

    Oh, yes, you’ve discovered my fetish. Funny how it reconciles with the military’s fetish of shoving things up male arseholes. Pity the women were subjected to same. Or doesn’t that fit your bias?

    Not to mention your stupidity.

  41. guytaur

    @TrendsAustralia: ‘inadvertently’ & ‘vessels’ are now trending in Australia http://t.co/giFpgT62Zv

    Looks like public not buying the BS either

  42. ruawake

    [Angus Campbell will arrive on Manus Island tomorrow says Immigration Minister Scott Morrison]

    To do what? Run away and try and find the Green zone?

  43. zoidlord

    @ruawake/1369

    Hope they use a navman this time, at least.

  44. guytaur

    @BernardKeane: Scott Morrison has significantly worsened Immigration’s asylum seeker data breach by revealing the key documents http://t.co/L9T6zEO7Sk

  45. absolutetwaddle

    kezza2

    I wouldn’t call it a fetish as I am quite sure you’re able to seek sexual satisfaction in other ways. But yeah, if one was inclined to search for +kezza2 +arse +”poll bludger” in Google, a rather hilarious history of your obsession would pop up.

  46. absolutetwaddle

    guytaur

    Twitter is not Australia.

  47. frednk

    Poor old angus.
    “manus mission general angus campbell sent” the file title in itself is a gem.

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/feb/19/manus-mission-general-angus-campbell-sent

  48. kezza2

    absolutetwaddle

    And I guess your hilarity would be about men getting a check-up for prostate cancer.

    Laugh your arse off, mate. I’m sure prostate cancer sufferers are in stitches, as we speak.

  49. guytaur

    twaddle

    Its the quickest feedback on public we have. Reaches as many people as broadcast television,

  50. dave

    pom@1350

    Can someone clarify things in regards to the legal position of the Manus Is. detention center. Who is responsible for the compound has the land been annexed from PNG. If PNG police attacked inmates within the compound does that fall within PNG or AU jurisdiction? It seems to me a real problem for Morriscum.

    Its PNG Land and PNG Law.

    Nothing is annexed.

    ‘Some’ AS picked a fight they couldn’t finish and got their collected arses handed back on a plate.

    Now they are crying about it. One poor bloke is dead as well.

    Many if not most AS currently on Manus would have been aware from both the Rudd and the Abbott governments that “they will NEVER be allowed to settle in Australia – nor will there be family reunions”.

    They made poor decisions to come and an even worse decision to abuse the Guards/ mobile squad etc – who of course have totally over reacted. Plus they have blown the money paid over in Indonesia.

  51. zoidlord

    @AW, If you select Australian Trends, that’s the topics come up.

    Just because twitter is not Australian, doesn’t mean it does not cover Australian media or topics.

  52. absolutetwaddle

    kezza2

    “And I guess your hilarity would be about men getting a check-up for prostate cancer.
    Laugh your arse off, mate. I’m sure prostate cancer sufferers are in stitches, as we speak.”

    Oh good, we’re back on familiar ground. I have no idea what you’re raving about.

  53. ruawake

    [“manus mission general angus campbell sent” the file title in itself is a gem.]

    The story shows Morrison should resign, he is Immigration Minister. He has no right to tell the Army to do anything.

    Tell him to feck off Angus.

  54. guytaur

    dave

    Its not Papua New Guinea picking them up on boats and locking them up in Manus. Its Australia that is the legal reality,

  55. frednk

    Anna Harrington ‏@Anna4H 22m

    @latingle Jon Kudelka @jonkudelka If we had more women in the navy they would be more inclined to stop and ask for directions.

  56. DisplayName

    In any case we don’t need to view it in black and white and absolutely decide whether we believe it’s a mistake or not.

    Even if we allow that they might be mistakes, it is this government’s policies that have made possible or increased the chance of such mistakes occurring – by pushing right to the boundaries of what is acceptable – and their own statements of the importance of Australia’s relationship with Indonesia that make such mistakes significant.

    Their policies fail by their own standard.

  57. frednk

    Stephen C. ‏@2FBS 31m

    So @Australian_Navy towed a boat to within sight of Indonesian land mass and claimed ignorance that they were in Indonesian waters?

  58. dave

    guytaur@1381

    dave

    Its not Papua New Guinea picking them up on boats and locking them up in Manus. Its Australia that is the legal reality,

    PNG jurisdiction without any doubt.

    Try and tell PNG otherwise.

  59. WeWantPaul

    [Angus Campbell will arrive on Manus Island tomorrow says Immigration Minister Scott Morrison]

    He was hoping to land in Tasmania for a holiday, but his team isn’t good with directions.

  60. guytaur

    dave

    How long have you been saying Australian Navy and Customs vessels are in PNG jurisdiction?

  61. guytaur

    dave

    Also to make it easy for you. There were reasons Morrison was highlighting the difference in his presser about the centre

  62. kezza2

    absolutetwaddle

    After losing half a dozen members of my family to different sorts of cancers, if my so-called “fetish” about male arseholes induced anyone on here to get a check-up for prostate cancer, then I’m happy to be called a festishist.

    I wouldn’t wish the end of so many of my closest relatives lives on anyone here.

    If I came across as crass, then I was speaking from raw pain.

    And I don’t give a shit about you or anyone else belittling me for it.

  63. Dee

    WoW!
    Great security! Was in the complex for two hours before being discovered.

    [An elderly nun who broke into one of the most carefully guarded nuclear facilities in the United States has been sentenced to nearly three years in prison.]

    [Sister Megan Rice, 84, cut through fences and several layers of security at the Y-12 National Security Complex in Tennessee, along with two other members of the pacifist group Transform Now Plowshares, in July 2012.]

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-02-19/nun-gets-three-years-in-us-prison-for-nuclear-break-in/5270736

  64. dave

    I’m talking about the centre itself.

  65. mikehilliard

    [@PatsKarvelas : Given Labor came up with the PNG solution I don’t get why people are so disappointed by their response. #auspol]

    This only confirms my opinion that Karvelas has no humane instincts whatsoever.

  66. zoidlord

    @Dee/1390

    Read that earlier, not really carefully guarded then?

    I suppose all they had to do was drop a grenade or put some sort of explosive…. and you have an big accident…

  67. poroti

    Just heard on the radio that the navy “miscalculated” where the Indonesian borders were. Did Indonesia keep shifting the islands every time the navy turned their backs ?

  68. zoidlord

    @MH/1392

    It was actually Howard that came up with PNG solution, but whatever floats your boat.

  69. WeWantPaul

    [In any case we don’t need to view it in black and white and absolutely decide whether we believe it’s a mistake or not.]

    I think maybe one mistake wouldn’t be that bad, given how often they are neglecting their duties and s@xually assaulting each other well two mistakes would be possible. Six is not something even the dumbest liberal bot would believe, the Indonesians certainly wont.

  70. mikehilliard

    zoid@1395

    So Karvelas can’t even get her facts right.

  71. Centre

    Yep, absolutely, the Navy inadvertently entered Indonesian waters 6 times.

    They misjudged the angle of the moon every time. Human error on all 6 occasions that is all.

    Hell, of course they knowingly entered Indonesian waters every time. The question is what prompted them to do so?

    The Bludger who said that they needed to ensure boats were returned safely is right on the money – spot on 😎

  72. mikehilliard

    [Lib staffers overheard tonight laughingly referring to Geelong as “Geetroit”.]

    😮

  73. poroti

    kezza2

    My father and grandfather died of bowel cancer. I have regular colonoscopy’s and have no problems at all about cracking jokes over the procedure.

  74. poroti

    Centre

    Don’t forget the ocean has wind and tides as pointed out by the suppository of all knowledge .

  75. WeWantPaul

    [Don’t forget the ocean has wind and tides as pointed out by the suppository of all knowledge .]

    Yes but the navy hasn’t worked that out. How is being a political tool in a political farce going for the navy?

  76. Dee

    DavidWH

    Got it David!

    Far better to allow Australians to believe our navy cannot use navigational equipment than inflame the diplomatic rift with Indonesia.

    Gulp!

    😆

  77. zoidlord

    @MH/1397

    Probably referenced to current reinstated solutions, rather than PAST.

  78. Diogenes

    Windhover

    [Your claim that Iran is guilty of crocodile tears is itself an illustration of your double standards. ]

    Umm, no. I’m pointing out that the guy fled Iran as his life was threatened there due to their human rights abuses which makes Iran’s pretend concern for his welfare pretty funny given they clearly didn’t have the same concerns when he was actually in their country.

  79. ruawake

    Oliver Laughland ‏@oliverlaughland Feb 18
    I spoke directly to 2 eyewitnesses on Manus last night, who both told me that PNG police and locals entered the camp

  80. BK

    Surely Morriscum has bad-mouthed the navy.

  81. WeWantPaul

    [Umm, no. I’m pointing out that the guy fled Iran as his life was threatened there due to their human rights abuses which makes Iran’s pretend concern for his welfare pretty funny given they clearly didn’t have the same concerns when he was actually in their country.]

    Yeah I agree Diog but it is a bit unpleasant for us to be the ones that actually killed him.

  82. kezza2

    [poroti
    Posted Wednesday, February 19, 2014 at 8:28 pm | PERMALINK
    kezza2

    My father and grandfather died of bowel cancer. I have regular colonoscopy’s and have no problems at all about cracking jokes over the procedure.]

    Nor me. My father, and two of my aunties have had bowel cancer, only one survived.

    I’m pretty sure my comment/s at the time was about the flack Tim Mathieson got because of his quip to the West Indies cricketers about having an Asian doctor do the examination.

    Of course, the msm went into overdrive about his comments.

    And I came back and talked about arses, bottoms, fingers and getting check-ups.

    But of course that meant I had a fetish about arseholes, to some arseholes here.

  83. WeWantPaul

    [Umm, no. I’m pointing out that the guy fled Iran as his life was threatened there due to their human rights abuses which makes Iran’s pretend concern for his welfare pretty funny given they clearly didn’t have the same concerns when he was actually in their country.]

    Perhaps a hearty ‘thank you we are impressed you’ve achieved what we tried and failed to achieve’ would ring more true from Iran.

  84. poroti

    BK

    [
    Surely Morriscum has bad-mouthed the navy.]
    Total slag off. Accusing them of being unable to do navy stuff 101 6 times in a short time.

  85. imacca

    [‘Some’ AS picked a fight they couldn’t finish and got their collected arses handed back on a plate.]

    Actually, some of the reports i have read include accusations that people who were NOT involved in any rioting were beaten as well. That will be something for the inquiry to clear up.

    Had to have a larf though when i saw the ABC report on the Navy navigational challenges. 🙂

    Morriscum seems t now be taking the position that the Navy knew where they were but didn’t know where the border was. Sorry, that just doesn’t cut it.

    But the REAL humor was this bit.

    [Recommendation 2
    It is recommended that the Chief of Navy consider each incursion by RAN vessels into Indonesian waters during Operation Sovereign Borders, with regard to any individual lapses in professional conduct.]

    So they are recommending the discipline Captains?? That will generate some whistle blowers and blow away their secrecy if nothing else does. 🙂

  86. Centre

    Poroti

    Yes, the winds, tides and currents all suck you in to Indonesian waters.

    It’s all like the Bermuda triangle didn’t you know, once it sucks you in the force is, like the song, simply irresistible 😐

  87. zoidlord

    http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/wages-growth-limp-as-more-workers-ditched-20140219-330od.html

    This author of the article blames Mining Tax and Carbon Tax, but then at the bottom:

    “”Hopefully all this good news overshadows the forthcoming loss of jobs in manufacturing,” Ms Beacher said.”

    Article stinks as the author of the article puts his own opinion in.

  88. ruawake

    From the ABC in cowering mode.

    [A witness to the violence at the Manus Island detention centre on Monday night says guards attacked asylum seekers with sticks and iron bars.]

    See the words, guards attacked – Morrison seems to be lying again. How very Hillsong.

  89. poroti

    kezza2

    I think the po faced people over Tim’s comment were/are those who have never had the procedure. Them and the Orcs from the Murdochracy. Those that have gone through it would mostly give a chuckle.

  90. victoria

    [The Abbott government’s plan to sign a free trade agreement with China by September has been dealt a blow after Beijing failed to mention it as a priority for the year ahead.
    Commerce Ministry spokesman Shen Danyang said on Tuesday the government was focused on signing a three-way trade agreement with Japan and South Korea, a standalone deal with South Korea and another regional pact.
    “This year we will give priority to free-trade negotiations with neighbouring countries,” Mr Shen said at the Ministry’s monthly press conference, making no mention of Australia
    ……………………………………………………………………………
    Mr Mei said obstacles included the Australian government being too close to the US and clumsy in its policy towards China. “They have created too many unexpected problems,” he said.
    Meanwhile a PwC report to be released on Wednesday forecasts that Australia’s share of China’s outbound foreign investment may be set to fall.
    “Despite our quality resource assets, geographic proximity and relative political stability, it is possible that China may be somewhat ‘overweight’ in Australia,” it says.]

    http://www.afr.com/p/world/china_cools_on_australia_free_trade_eDQxHJE97xwS55HEWKPCzH

  91. mikehilliard

    Just watching (sort of) that desiccated skull Tippy on 24. What a Lib cheer leader she is.

  92. Steven Grant Haby

    A friend of mine’s father did some contract electronics work for the RAN in the 1970s and he commented recently that he had never met such an incompetent and useless group of people in his life … this coming from a guy who was conscripted into the army for Vietnam war.

    The personnel he had to deal with in Melbourne could not navigate their way out of a paper bag and had no idea about the law of the sea etc and other protocols.

    He refused to have anything to do with Navy personnel after a frigate ‘became lost’ in Port Phillip Bay during shakedown exercises.

  93. Dee

    [He refused to have anything to do with Navy personnel after a frigate ‘became lost’ in Port Phillip Bay during shakedown exercises.]
    😆

  94. mari

    frednk
    Posted Wednesday, February 19, 2014 at 7:59 pm | PERMALINK
    Poor old angus.
    “manus mission general angus campbell sent” the file title in itself is a gem.

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/feb/19/manus-mission-general-angus-campbell-sent

    I just wonder if the tame general is being set up as the “fall” guy

  95. Diogenes

    dtt

    [Management of Manus Island is Morrison’s responsibility. If it had gone pear shape under Labor then it would have been just as bad.]

    There were plenty of riots and torching of facilities under Labor as well.

  96. kezza2

    [poroti
    Posted Wednesday, February 19, 2014 at 8:47 pm | PERMALINK
    kezza2

    I think the po faced people over Tim’s comment were/are those who have never had the procedure. Them and the Orcs from the Murdochracy. Those that have gone through it would mostly give a chuckle.]
    Yeah, and a lot of them thought accepting a finger up the bum meant an admission of latent homosexuality.

    If only men could bear children, then they’d never have a worry about probing an orifice meaning anything other than a medical check.

    Well, apart from the ears, of course.

  97. DisplayName

    WWP @ 1396
    I’m just saying that even if we allow them as mistakes, the government is still responsible for putting policies in place that increase the likelihood of such mistakes in contradiction to the requirement – of their own assertions of the importance of our relationship with Indonesia – that our policies minimise such errors.

    However you look at it, this government has bungled their policies. Not that I ever expect the media will report it as such, they’ve been letting Abbott get away with his contradictions for a long time now.

  98. Steven Grant Haby

    In fact commercial shipping such as ANL always had an edit thus if a ‘RAN ship is in port check your insurance’ based on their stupidity and incomptence

  99. ruawake

    [The Abbott government’s plan to sign a free trade agreement with China by September has been dealt a blow after Beijing failed to mention it as a priority for the year ahead.]

    The Chinese have a basic problem, they will not negotiate on anything that disadvantages them by $1.

    This is why the FTA talks have been occurring for decades.

  100. Centre

    So guards attacked asylum seekers with sticks and iron bars?

    Where’s Tisme, he’d be having multiples over that news!

  101. zoidlord

    Retweeted by Stephen Koukoulas
    Adam Collins ‏@collinsadam 30s

    Ladies and gents, the Liberal Party: RT @mooreryan3 Liberals handing these out at Griffith University orientation. pic.twitter.com/uaLS0l7epZ

    Sign reads “because not everyone can be on welfare”.

    Except them right?

  102. davidwh

    Dee1403 honestly that is a wrong and absurd interpretation of what I said. A deliberate incursion into Indonesian territory is a far worse diplomatic circumstance.

  103. Diogenes

    WWP

    [Yeah I agree Diog but it is a bit unpleasant for us to be the ones that actually killed him.]

    I thought it was a PNG policeman.

  104. dave

    Imacca – no doubt there were AS who were not involved in abusing guards who got bashed as well.

    PNG people will just not be abused by anyone in their own country. They would regard the AS as a ‘tribe’ of their own and made little deferensation between those who did the abusing and those who didn’t.

    Just saying that’s how its seen up there – I am not condoning it.

    The AS are on PNG soil and are going to have to mind their P’s and Q’s when dealing with the locals – also find a way to make peace with the guards. A BIG ask in our culture – but if they don’t this will spiral big time and make the last couple of nights look like a picnic.

    Just saying – for what its woth.

  105. kezza2

    Diogenes

    (and Oakeshott Count(r)y, for that matter)

    I’m astounded at the way you two, in particular, have such a grudge against Labor, although you didn’t display it so much when Labor was in power.

    Now, though, it’s as if the sluice-gate have been opened, and out pours the bilge of 6 years.

    Is that because you both are really Coalition supporters, and were just biding your time paying lip-service to the PB majority, or you’re just hypocrites anyway?

    Or, did I just completely mis-read anything and everything you had to say over the last half-decade or so?

  106. Diogenes

    kezza

    Actually it’s because we are both doctors so we try to live in the real world.

  107. kezza2

    Diogenes

    I’m still glad you avoided catastrophe when you hit a kangaroo, and I still thank-you gratefully for helping with maths stuff.

    But, I must confess, I’m bewildered by your vehement anti-Labor stance.

    As your 1432, yet again, exhibits. Or are you just contrary?

  108. Rossmore

    To whom could I possibly be refering?

    In press conferences he often smirks at his own cleverness.
    Many journos confuse his command of his brief with the fact that he rarely reveals any detail of his brief.
    His speciality is demonising asylum seekers with careful use of dog whistling terms.
    He is quick to point the finger at other people when things go wrong under his watch.

  109. DisplayName

    Dio has a vehement anti-politician stance :P.

  110. frednk

    Now Now Angus, I think your boss has upset them enough. At some point the Navy is going to tell you both to get stuffed.
    [
    Steven Grant Haby
    Posted Wednesday, February 19, 2014 at 8:53 pm | Permalink

    In fact commercial shipping such as ANL always had an edit thus if a ‘RAN ship is in port check your insurance’ based on their stupidity and incomptence
    ]

  111. kezza2

    [Diogenes
    Posted Wednesday, February 19, 2014 at 9:07 pm | PERMALINK
    kezza

    Actually it’s because we are both doctors so we try to live in the real world.]
    And other professions don’t live in the real world?

  112. dave

    RU – The chinese are demanding the right to bring their own workers into Australia to work on their own resources projects on chinese wages and conditions – have been for years and won’t budge an iota.

    No way will Australia either.

    The Chinese are saying the same to us as the Yanks did – our way or no deal and that was all before abbott stumbled onto the scene.

  113. ShowsOn

    [This one’s fairly low on the level of dirty tricks but the Labor candidate certainly got busted.]
    You mean her volunteers who didn’t follow their instructions.

  114. Diogenes

    kezza

    I criticise the Liberals a lot more than I criticise Labor.

    The problem is that some people are so biased that they cannot cope with any criticism of their beloved party and take that criticism as a personal affront. Hence they only remember the bad comments about Labor.

  115. pedant

    Meanwhile, we have to hear on the news, hour after hour, the revolting self-pity of yet another witness before the Royal Commission. If there is a hell, I would like to think that it has a particularly putrid corner reserved for these vile characters, and for the religious institutions which nurtured them.

  116. poroti

    DisplayName

    [
    Dio has a vehement anti-politician stance]
    With a “tree surgeon uber alle ” attitude 🙂

  117. poroti

    [The Chinese are saying the same to us as the Yanks did – our way or no deal and that was all before Abbott stumbled onto the scene.]

    As the saying goes “When elephants mate, many ants get crushed'”

  118. kezza2

    [Diogenes
    Posted Wednesday, February 19, 2014 at 9:13 pm | PERMALINK
    kezza

    I criticise the Liberals a lot more than I criticise Labor.]
    Phew, okay, I must have missed that recently. 😆

    Keep up the good work.

  119. DisplayName

    dave, rua
    Then that idiot Abbott should never have said he’d have the deal done within a year and it should be reported as yet another bungle, but Abbott is never held to his own always changing standard, so what the hey.

  120. Dee

    DavidWH

    Well you said you would rather believe the navy erred and did not deliberately enter Indonesian territory 6 times.

    And recollections that you thought it far worse for the government if so.

    If not, then I apologise!

    I would never have believed our navy could get it so wrong but if they can lose a frigate in Port Phillip Bay…..

  121. Edwina StJohn

    Diogenes, why do you think the Libs have given Rann Adelaide? Do you think he is qualified on the basis of wife no2 being of Italian extraction?

  122. kezza2

    https://twitter.com/mooreryan3/status/436071342459191296/photo/1

    Hmm. Proud to be Liberal because not everyone can be on welfare.

    At least they’re honest about the Multi-Billionaires sucking the life out of the welfare teat.

    Oh wait, they’re not talking about the billions of dollars given to the corporate sector. They’re actually talking about the people who prop up capitalism – the pool of unemployed – the reserve workforce.

    Dickheads.

  123. imacca

    [The AS are on PNG soil and are going to have to mind their P’s and Q’s when dealing with the locals –]

    No, they dont.

    They are in a detention center, separated from the “locals”. The Australian Govt has determined that they be detained there and its all paid for by the Australian Govt. The Australian Govt (in the person of the minister) has a responsibility to keep them safe, and protect them from harm while they are there. The only locals involved are paid staff who have absolutely no right to physically assault someone simply because they object to a comment they made. Being “provoked” is no excuse for ANY of the G4S staff involved or any Police involved.

    [also find a way to make peace with the guards.]

    If the detainees were attacked, then it is not up to them to make peace. Its up to the operator of the center to sack any guards involved, for the Australian Govt to make sure it resources the detention center (in terms of trained staff) such that this cant happen again, and for procedures to be put in place such that EVERYONE involved in that center knows that ANYTHING they do there can be scrutinized in detail. Oh, and that happenings there wont be hidden away. You know, a bit of the transparency Tony promised.

  124. pedant

    Dee @ 1448: Don’t forget the Voyager case, just over 50 years gone, where it took two Royal Commissions to winkle out the salient fact that the captain of the Voyager had a “drink problem”.

  125. Diogenes

    ESJ

    There was a lot of talk Labor would give Rann Rome in exchange for leaving quietly so he’s probably not too unhappy with the move.

    As you say his wife has Italian heritage and owns a home in southern Italy.

  126. Edwina StJohn

    Sorry I meant to say why they gave Rann Rome Diogenes? Why do you think and is the No2 Wife being of Italian extraction sufficient qualification?

    Isnt this something Labor should oppose?

  127. Bushfire Bill

    The story I heard about the incursions into Indonesian territory was that on 2 occasions official border maps given to the RAN by the Indonesians were at too coarse a scale to identify small islands and other landforms like peninsulas etc.

    The argument went that it was up to Indonesia to define its own borders and that the RAN was only following what they were told by official Indonesian sources.

    The other three occasions (now it seem there may have been one more, making a total of six) were due to the local officers on the spot using their initiative and taking asylum seeker boats closer to shore to minimize safety issues.

    Of course if they hadn’t been hijacking asylum seeker boats in the first place they wouldn’t have been within coo’ee of Indonesian territory.

    Ultimately it was a flawed policy that put Australian navy ships in a position where violations of Indonesia’s territorial sovereignty were an issue, even if they were done with the “best of intentions”.

    All it’s done is piss off Indonesia and now the chinese are giving us the silent treatment, too.

    The government ranks has too much testoterone in its system. They listen too much to the Ray Hadleys of this world to whom they give most of their interviews). The Michael Smith even thought he could complain directly to the government about his treatment from Google is a disgrace. But then again, it was his wedding that Brandis et al turned up to on the public tit.

    The 7 Network, too complained about being raided, and Turnbull, to his shame, rang them up and apologized. We won’t be seeing the AFP raiding too many more media offices in the near future… unless of course they’re ABC offices, which I fear will receive a visit any day.

    There’s a nasty, self-reinforcing web of blokiness being built up between the media and this government. The country’s being run by this club, with a few climate science denying bizoids thrown into the mix.

    The whole concept of the separation of powers and independent operations is being tossed out the door as Abbott and his minister dispense privilege and favours, and in return receive them.

    When media scum like News Ltd and the tabloid TV networks start setting themselves up as holier than thou, you know something’s beginning to pong, rather strongly.

  128. Edwina StJohn

    Do you think it is a posting for which he is qualified Diogenese ?

  129. Oakeshott Country

    I was a member of the ALP for 36 years and was once a federal candidate, which cost me a large amount of money and much personal and professional trouble.

    I left the party when Obeid’s corruption was exposed by ICAC. I determined to vote deliberately informal on the night Gillard was deposed.

    I have seen nothing in the performance of either the NSW or Federal opposition yet that has induced me to change my vote. Instead I feel liberated by the restraints of party and comment on PB as I see fit.

    When the ALP purges itself of the corrupting influence of union chancers I will return to the party. Hopefully this will occur while I am still alive

  130. Diogenes

    Does anyone know how Immigration managed to put the list on a public site?

    It’s almost so incompetent you wonder if there was a deliberate sabotage.

    If my office put a list of my patients on the website, I’d be taken to pieces by the Medical Board. Morrison really needs to be dealt with very severely by someone.

    Can the Privacy Commissioner do anything or will Morrison get off as they aren’t Australian citizens?

  131. ShowsOn

    [I criticise the Liberals a lot more than I criticise Labor.]
    Where’s your data for this assertion?

  132. Edwina StJohn

    Blessed are the kerb crawlers for they shall inherit a safe Labor seat eh Bushfire Bill ?

  133. pedant

    Edwina StJohn @ 1454: Presumably Mr Rann is employed either on a contract or under the Public Service Act. Either way, he would have rights arising from being moved on. The government might well have decided it would be better to have him gainfully employed in Rome than to have to explain to the public why it was worth paying several hundred thousand dollars just to give Mr Downer the lifestyle to which he had become accustomed.

  134. ShowsOn

    [Sorry I meant to say why they gave Rann Rome Diogenes? Why do you think and is the No2 Wife being of Italian extraction sufficient qualification?

    Isnt this something Labor should oppose?]
    Why?

  135. Tricot

    Interesting shift in the wind…..?

    Has anyone noticed the number of ABC news items which now begin…… “According to Fairfax media”…..???

    As far as the Voyager is concerned, the question was always “Drunken Duncan”.

    Sad but true as it seems to have turned out.

  136. absolutetwaddle

    If it’s any consolation, a lot of the Young Liberals of today become the SAlties of tomorrow.

    Also the more academically rigorous the campus, the less Young Liberals there are.

  137. ShowsOn

    [The government might well have decided it would be better to have him gainfully employed in Rome than to have to explain to the public why it was worth paying several hundred thousand dollars just to give Mr Downer the lifestyle to which he had become accustomed.]
    Apparently Downer wanted to go to the U.S.(i.e. take Beazley’s job), but that didn’t end up happening on the grounds that Downer is a pissant.

  138. Edwina StJohn

    No Pedant that is incorrect. I think you will find an ambassador is of equivalent rank to a Cabinet Minister and has the same tenure.

    Presumably the P.I.C.T and the lIberals think the second wifes ethnicity is qualification enough, Thank goodness.

  139. zoidlord

    @BB/1455

    100% agreed.

  140. poroti

    Edwina StJohn

    [
    Blessed are the kerb crawlers for they shall inherit a safe Labor seat ]
    I must bow to your hands on experience of that 😉

  141. zoidlord

    @ESJ/1466

    Since when looking at liberals thinking a good thing?

  142. Bushfire Bill

    [Blessed are the kerb crawlers for they shall inherit a safe Labor seat eh Bushfire Bill ?]

    A more than usually impenetrably obtuse comment from you Edwina.

  143. kezza2

    Edwin/a St John

    I suppose you were really upset when John Hewson’s Wife No 2 came on the scene. And that’s why you voted Labor in 1993.

    Were you happy when Amanda Vanstone took Mandarin lessons at taxpayers expense, when she thought she was going to get the Beijing post?

    Or were you just as happy to pay for her Italian lessons?

    Did you care when Jeff Kennett’s wife left him?

    Were you upset when you heard the Liberal LOTO in Victoria had a mistress and was awarded with a London post to get him away from public glare?

    Or are you always such an imbecile?

  144. davidwh

    Dee I think it’s more likely the navy had a lot of their electronic gear turned off to mask their presence and relied on less reliable methods and simply stuffed up. That seems a lot more likely than deliberate intent to invade another country’s territory. But if it was a government ordered act then I’m sure a Wilke somewhere will leak that information. Then all hell will break out.

  145. mari

    Just saw Oakeshott country comment I can attest to what he says as I lived in next seat to which he contested

  146. ShowsOn

    [Presumably the P.I.C.T and the lIberals think the second wifes ethnicity is qualification enough, Thank goodness.]
    Hang on a second, Mandy Vanstone’s qualification for going to Rome was that she liked wearing Versace shirts.

  147. Edwina StJohn

    So everybody does it so its OK kezza2?

    How profound.

  148. zoidlord

    @ESJ/1475

    I thought it was “The standard you walk past is the standard you accept”? Was ok for you guys.

  149. dave

    Imacca

    Simple then the centre needs to be put elsewhere, because I can guarantee in PNG, their rules will apply.

    As I said above – just saying how it is.

    Next time it will be far worse. Guaranteed.

  150. Diogenes

    ESJ

    [Sorry I meant to say why they gave Rann Rome Diogenes? Why do you think and is the No2 Wife being of Italian extraction sufficient qualification?

    Isnt this something Labor should oppose?]

    I am reliably informed that any idiot can be an ambassador and that Rann is a perfectly reasonable choice.

    They have permanent staff who make all the real decisions and it’s largely a ceremonial position.

  151. Edwina StJohn

    Well I think these sort of appointments are appalling – from either the P.I.C.T or the Liberals Diogenese?

    Why give any of these clowns these sinecures? Downer, Rann et al.

  152. rossmcg

    Shows on

    I also heard at that Vanstone like a good red wine too.

  153. Edwina StJohn

    Clearly Rann is being given Rome only to avoid tit for tat reprisals for a future P.I.C.T government.

    Bracks only got shafted because he kept going to fundraisers when he hd been announced and hadnt actually moved over there. Dum!

  154. Edwina StJohn

    kezza2 , guytaur has a steel prick for you!

  155. Dee

    Pedant

    I listened to hours of out pouring from my father inlaw.

    No-one knew what had happened to him in the Christian Brothers orphanage until around the last 15 years or so.

    His mother died when he was six and his father was in the armed forces so was placed with the Christian Brothers and spent twelve long miserable years in the orphanage.

    He and others tried to run away but the police would always bring them back.

    As he and some of the other boys got older they decided to make a complaint.

    Not only did they get a foot up the arse from the police they felt the wrath of more savage bashings from the brothers.

    Some kids, after bashings, just disappeared

    He also spoke of ‘outside’ visitors and select (favourites) boys making themselves scarce because…..

    Counselling had been given over the last few years but he wouldn’t join the class action group.

    He had a heart attack last year and there were an onset of other problems..

    When the doctor, as Kezza puts it, put the finger up the arse he broke down.

    I received a phone call that he was curled up in a ball crying.

    Not only should perps be dealt harsh punishment, so should those who are informed and fail to act.

  156. don

    davidwh@1472

    Dee I think it’s more likely the navy had a lot of their electronic gear turned off to mask their presence and relied on less reliable methods and simply stuffed up. That seems a lot more likely than deliberate intent to invade another country’s territory. But if it was a government ordered act then I’m sure a Wilke somewhere will leak that information. Then all hell will break out.

    That doesn’t seem likely. GPS is passive – it receives signals, and does not have to emit them, and even old civilian versions are accurate to 100 metres most times. Garmin, a commercial operator, advertises 15 metres on average for their latest model.

    Either is plenty accurate to make sure you don’t cross a border.

  157. bemused

    Oakeshott Country@1457


    When the ALP purges itself of the corrupting influence of union chancers I will return to the party. Hopefully this will occur while I am still alive

    Yes, we only allow the living to join.

    Although, come to think of it, we have a few members where I am not so sure.. 😛

  158. kezza2

    [Edwina StJohn
    Posted Wednesday, February 19, 2014 at 9:39 pm | PERMALINK
    So everybody does it so its OK kezza2?

    How profound.]
    Absolutely not.
    But considering you like to revel in the gutter then perhaps you should take care of your own shit first, before you throw muck at others.

    But then a fox smells his own stink first.

  159. Diogenes

    ESJ

    I argued exactly that a while back. I said there should be job applications and the best person appointed.

    I was told it doesn’t matter who gets the job as they are basically a bludge except for hosting drinks parties.

  160. Edwina StJohn

    Dee the fight will be to repeal the Trust Acts in which Church property is held and virtually untouchable.

    The RC and whether it recommends this AND THEN whether State and Federal governments repeal these Trust Acts is the whole ball game!

    I reckon even with the RC theres about a 20% chance of this actually (sadly) happening!

  161. zoomster

    I was pretty cheesed when Menzies was made Lord of the Cinque Ports (or whatever it was…)

  162. Edwina StJohn

    Try a little humour Kezza2 – it leavens the sanctimoniousness a little.

    I’m praying for you!

  163. kezza2

    [Edwina StJohn
    Posted Wednesday, February 19, 2014 at 9:47 pm | PERMALINK
    kezza2 , guytaur has a steel prick for you!]

    You’re a pretty repulsive person, ESJ.

    But I guess you already know that. I feel sorry for you.

  164. Diogenes

    don

    I bet the navy’s GPS has an warning that goes off when you change from international waters to a country’s waters.

    I don’t believe they didn’t know they had breached Indonesia’s territory.

  165. poroti

    Shock horror NOT . Australia’s biggest Murdoch suckhole shill like EVA aka Paul Murray says the armed police raid on Ch.7 should be accepted. Police wouldn’t do it with out reason…….apparently.

  166. Edwina StJohn

    http://www.milesago.com/people/bacon-wendy.htm

    Read the 3rd para and you will understand the reference. This is the person Guytaur quotes as an authority on Operation Sovereign Borders!

  167. pedant

    Edwina StJohn @ 1466: As it happens, I’ve known quite a few Australian Ambassadors in my time, and most of them would be astounded but delighted to know they were “of equivalent rank to a Cabinet Minister”. Of course, an Ambassador can be removed by the Government at any time, by the executive act of withdrawing his or her credentials. But that doesn’t of itself terminate their employment with DFAT. Most Ambassadors are simply DFAT SES officers. Mr Rann, if similarly employed would, in the absence of other provision, enjoy the same rights as his colleagues.

  168. pedant

    Diogenes @ 1478: If you think any idiot can be an Ambassador, and that it’s the underlings who do the work, you have been badly misinformed. That’s one aspect of the US system, but not how the Australian diplomatic network operates.

  169. poroti

    davidwh@1472

    [Dee I think it’s more likely the navy had a lot of their electronic gear turned off to mask their presence and relied on less reliable methods and simply stuffed up.]
    Utter crap. They can turn their location transponder all they like. It has ZERO effect on the GPS system. It receives it does not send !!!!

  170. poroti

    “Off all they like”

  171. Centre

    Poroti

    Paul Murray is right about one thing, the Police wouldn’t have done it without reason.

    Somebody does not want Corby to talk believe me 😯

  172. poroti

    Lordy. Just watching Britney on Sky. Scrote Morriscum has thrown the navy under the bus. Lack of training incompetence and heads will roll……..apparently. Ya reckon the navy chaps and chapesses will be furious or what ?

  173. kezza2

    Dee

    I’m glad you were there for your FIL.

    So many stories, so many heartbreaks, so much sexual assault, for so many kids of yesteryear.

    The mothers who couldn’t provide because of the death of their husbands, the fathers who couldn’t provide because of the death of the mothers, the single parents, the economy, the war, the everything.

    Today, it’s the sole parents who are blamed, for everything.

    But it doesn’t matter, does it, it’s the kids who suffer.

    All the kids.

    And it doesn’t matter if it comes out when they’re old or young, all people need love and understanding.

    I’m glad you were there for you father in law. And your husband.

  174. pedant

    Dee @ 1483: That’s incredibly tragic, and, obviously all too typical. We are seeing, at the Royal Commission, a light being shone on absolutely the lowest forms of life.

  175. guytaur

    A sober reminder why we should treasure our democracy and its conventions, not trash them.

    @bbcworldservice: Hospitals in #Kiev are full, we’re moving the injured outside the capital to stop them being arrested – doctor in #Ukraine’s capital

  176. poroti

    kezza2

    [Today, it’s the sole parents who are blamed, for everything.]
    Today ? The Rodent Howard was huge on blaming “single mothers’ for any and every social ill from day 1.

  177. guytaur

    “@LaraGiddings: Liberals said Labor was running a scare campaign before Federal election on NBN & Gonski. We were right. Abbott has cut both #brokenpromises”

  178. Centre

    Poroti @ 1501

    I think Abbott and his stooges might be getting the drift that maybe the Indonesians are getting pissed (off).

  179. Dee

    [Somebody does not want Corby to talk believe me]

    Could it be to save her from herself?

  180. zoidlord

    Interesting stats on FTTH rollouts…

    FTTH Council Europe ‏@FTTHCouncilEU 28m

    There are now 9.5 million FTTH subscribers in Europe & 10.6 million in Russia & CIS #ftth2014 pic.twitter.com/XBrrGFs5FU

    FTTH Council Europe ‏@FTTHCouncilEU 42s

    11 countries in Europe (EU28) had more than 1M homes passed at year end 2013. Latvia has reached 100% coverage joining Lithuania #ftth2014

  181. shellbell

    Maybe Abbott will want his own appointment as the ambassador to theVatican in lieu of Bob Carr’s buddy, John McCarthy QC for whom Jack Waterford has little time.

    http://m.canberratimes.com.au/federal-politics/carr-takes-the-tough-decisions-for-his-mates-20120428-1xrii.html

  182. poroti

    Centre

    If I was a navy chap I’d have steam coming out of my ears at the Scrote besmirching.

  183. pedant

    Edwina StJohn @ 1498: Always nice to be reminded of Kipling, so thanks for that. I haven’t a clue how it is supposed to relate to any previous postings of mine or yours, but what the hell?

    Here’s a quote from Kipling in honour of Messrs Abbott and Morrison.

    “Now it is not good for the Christian’s health to hustle the Aryan brown,

    For the Christian riles, and the Aryan smiles and he weareth the Christian down;

    And the end of the fight is a tombstone white with the name of the late deceased,

    And the epitaph drear: “A Fool lies here who tried to hustle the East.”

  184. Edwina StJohn

    The really bad bastards get made Papal Knights shellbell – its one of the selection criteria!

  185. Centre

    Dee @ 1508

    Yep, get the Federal Police to storm into the offices of one of Australia’s largest media organisations to conduct searches as if they were a front for a multi national drug syndicate – just to save Corby from herself.

    Let’s use the brain!

  186. Centre

    Poroti

    Yes, but why has Morrison left them dry to hang?

    Me thinks the Indies are starting to get a little touchy?

  187. kezza2

    [poroti
    Posted Wednesday, February 19, 2014 at 9:59 pm | PERMALINK

    davidwh@1472

    Dee I think it’s more likely the navy had a lot of their electronic gear turned off to mask their presence and relied on less reliable methods and simply stuffed up.

    Utter crap. They can turn their location transponder (off) all they like. It has ZERO effect on the GPS system. It receives it does not send !!!!]

    Give davidwh a break. He WANTS to believe his party is good. Even though he know in his heart of hearts they’re heartless bastards.

    He knows the navy has state of the art GPS.

    He knows the navy has to obey the law of the sea.

    He doesn’t want to believe his party of government has ordered them to transgress everything they know to be ethical and right.

    Because that means, davidwh has voted for the wrong party. And it is him, davidwh, who is included in the Australia who is flouting international law, and flouting international standards – and he is NOT included with the rest of us who voted Labor.

    You may be a nice bloke, davidwh, but you have certainly backed the wrong horse here. No amount of trying to justify the shit is going to help you assuage your guilt for voting for them.

  188. geoffrey

    Rex Douglas
    Posted Wednesday, February 19, 2014 at 5:35 pm | PERMALINK
    ABC News ‏@abcnews 3m
    A major review has found Navy breached Indonesian waters six times under Operation Sovereign Borders http://ab.co/MbI5TZ #auspol

    Morrison should ‘inadvertently’ resign

    -how do they know in review they made a mistake if they never know in the first place?

  189. imacca

    [Lordy. Just watching Britney on Sky. Scrote Morriscum has thrown the navy under the bus. Lack of training incompetence and heads will roll……..apparently. Ya reckon the navy chaps and chapesses will be furious or what ?]

    Ooooooo. He will get a spanking for that. Barracking for the Home Team and all wot?? I’ll bet the Minister for Defense will tear strips off him……in about a month…..when he calms down, the brain-lock subsides, and can string a coherent sentence together …..if he remembers….

  190. DisplayName

    I thought it was unpatriotic and unAustralian to demean our military.

  191. poroti

    Centre
    [
    Poroti

    Yes, but why has Morrison left them dry to hang?]
    Coz like a good tory and happy clapper it is everyone else’s fault. Like Abbott he is Dog’s chosen one.

  192. kezza2

    [poroti
    Posted Wednesday, February 19, 2014 at 10:07 pm | PERMALINK
    kezza2

    Today, it’s the sole parents who are blamed, for everything.

    Today ? The Rodent Howard was huge on blaming “single mothers’ for any and every social ill from day 1.]

    Ehhhgh. I meant, contemporaneously! Rather than back in the early . . .

  193. poroti

    geoffrey

    [Morrison should ‘inadvertently’ resign]
    A triple 😆 for that comment

  194. Edwina StJohn

    I dont understand why crossing Indonesia’s maritime border is a big deal?

    What are they going to do send more fishing boats?

  195. zoidlord

    @EDJ/1523

    Ah liberals who think they above the law.

  196. Diogenes

    pedant

    [Diogenes @ 1478: If you think any idiot can be an Ambassador, and that it’s the underlings who do the work, you have been badly misinformed. That’s one aspect of the US system, but not how the Australian diplomatic network operates.]

    If that’s the case they shouldn’t give them out to people with no diplomatic qualifications.

  197. guytaur

    @MalcolmFraser12: Asylum seeker data bungle: Thousands could be granted refugee status.Yes but need Royal Commission into Dept http://t.co/MpAULOf283

    Mr Fraser knows all about Royal Commissions.

  198. DisplayName

    Edwina
    [I dont understand why crossing Indonesia’s maritime border is a big deal?]
    You should be asking the PM that question. He seems to think sovereignty is a big deal. Goes on and on about respecting it all the time, both ours and theirs.

  199. Centre

    What if Indonesia really got the sh!ts and declared war on Australia and got China to help them then we got the US to help us?

    Who would we go for 😈

  200. Diogenes

    Dan

    I thought our navy never did anything wrong so it never needed to be investigated.

  201. zoidlord

    TPP News:

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-tpp-power-to-the-corporations-at-the-expense-of-the-planet/5369188?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=the-tpp-power-to-the-corporations-at-the-expense-of-the-planet

    “The TPP trade deal would expand a system of corporate rights and private courts that threaten progress on some of our most urgent environmental issues”

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/curtis-ellis/conservatives-also-oppose_b_4800629.html

    “but the fact is conservative voters loathe it as well. Despite overwhelming opposition among GOP base voters, Speaker John Boehner and GOP leaders continue to support giving President Obama fast track power.”

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/wikileaks-and-the-secret-tpp-environment-report-%E3%82%A6%E3%82%A4%E3%82%AD%E3%83%AA%E3%83%BC%E3%82%AF%E3%82%B9%E6%B5%81%E5%87%BA%E3%81%AEtpp%E7%A7%98%E5%AF%86%E7%92%B0%E5%A2%83%E5%A0%B1%E5%91%8A/5369351

    “WikiLeaks has done it again – made available important documents that governments and corporate interests have tried to keep secret from the general public.”

    USA wants more than Japan wants more out of USA trade deal:
    http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/kyodo-news-international/140218/us-trade-chief-unhappy-japan-concessions-tpp-talks

    “”We’ve not yet achieved a level of market access or the resolution of auto issues that we need to achieve.””

    Once again, Good old USA is pushing the bully lines on TPP, and countries like Australia are falling for it.

  202. Edwina StJohn

    Display Name the strong do what they will, the weak do what they must.

  203. DisplayName

    Centre, the US would probably step in on the Indonesian’s side to prevent it getting to that stage. The last thing they want is for Indonesia to start getting cozy with China.

  204. Edwina StJohn

    I wonder what role ASIO and the SAS are playing in Operation Sovereign Borders.

    Presumably it will be years before we know the truth of this!

  205. Tom the first and best

    1513

    Arthur Calwell was made a papal knight. What do you have against him?

  206. Centre

    DN

    It’s like primary school. We used to pick countries then play war games at big lunch 😀

  207. DisplayName

    Edwina @ 1531
    So, like us, you think our PM is a liar. I guess you’ve spent too long on PB soaking up the juice.

  208. Tom the first and best

    1523

    They could send an anti-shipping missile. The Navy might find that educational.

  209. pedant

    Diogenes @ 1525: I agree 100%. Some politicians might well fit the description of “diplomatically qualified”, eg Kim Beazley, Mr Downer, and, in an earlier time, Sir Percy Spender. And Stanley Melbourne Bruce did well enough as a diplomat to be nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize. But Senators Vanstone and Gair certainly weren’t up to scratch. These days, a good Ambassador requires strong management skills as well as diplomatic ability, especially if he or she has oversight of Australian aid money.

  210. rossmcg

    Are single parents to Blame for the navy’s poor navigation?

  211. guytaur

    If the navy did not use GPS but used calculation instead it brings up an interesting point.

    Indonesia gains no tracking through GPS. So who does? GPS goes through US military. Could it be the US has privately expressed opposition to Operation Sovereign Borders?

  212. Edwina StJohn

    Actually rossmg Deblonay told me it was all a Chewish plot!

  213. Fran Barlow

    DN

    But which Indonesian’s side would they pick?

    😉

  214. victoria

    [Iranian-Australian freelance interpreter Azita Bokan was contracted to work on Manus Island for the Department of Immigration last week.

    She was on Manus Island during the violent clashes on both nights.

    Ms Bokan claims she was dismissed on Sunday after trying to intervene in a scuffle between detainees and G4S staff.

    On Monday night she stood on the roof of the staff housing facility several hundred metres away from the compound and watched the unrest.

    She has described seeing detainees with horrific injuries after a deadly clash involving large rocks and machetes.

    “I haven’t had sleep in three nights. I’m so all over the place, myself. I’ve seen too much and I keep having flashbacks,” she told the ABC.]

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-02-19/guards-attacked-asylum-seekers-with-sticks-and-iron-witness-says/5270640

  215. kezza2

    [DisplayName
    Posted Wednesday, February 19, 2014 at 10:25 pm | PERMALINK

    Edwina

    I dont understand why crossing Indonesia’s maritime border is a big deal?

    You should be asking the PM that question. He seems to think sovereignty is a big deal. Goes on and on about respecting it all the time, both ours and theirs.]

    😆

    Hey, DN, Eddie’s pretty thick.

    And, before you know it, s/he’ll move right on to the next silly question. Sort of like “short term memory” syndrome.

    I knew a junkie once, who everyday thought there was a particular theme de jour, couldn’t keep up with any conversation.

    Eddie’s like that. Can’t even keep up with a theme s/he’s introduced.

    Skip de di doo dah, skip de di day . . .

  216. Edwina StJohn

    No guytaur , it was the Chews who did it – Deblonay told me so!

  217. Fran Barlow

    ESJ

    [Actually rossmg Deblonay told me it was all a Chewish plot!]

    Chewbacca is innocent!

  218. Diogenes

    While I have no sympathy for a douchebag like Morrison, being Immigration Minister has to be the shittiest job in the country, followed by being the Industry Minister in an Abbott Government.

  219. Edwina StJohn

    kezza2 – go in peace and sin no more my friend!

  220. Edwina StJohn

    Seems the tassie incest is resulting in growing illiteracy rates! v.sad

  221. ShowsOn

    […followed by being the Industry Minister in an Abbott Government.]
    What about being science Minister in an Abbott government?

  222. Edwina StJohn

    No Diogenes – being a direct report of Paul Howes would be worse!

  223. Dee

    [Yep, get the Federal Police to storm into the offices of one of Australia’s largest media organisations to conduct searches as if they were a front for a multi national drug syndicate – just to save Corby from herself.

    Let’s use the brain!]

    Let’s!

    There’s nothing to see!

  224. guytaur

    Shows

    They don’t have one. Science is evil in Abbott’s government. All those facts.

  225. Centre

    Shows/Guytaur

    You don’t need science, we have the bible.

  226. guytaur

    “@TaraNipe: MT @MarkRDuckett: Morrison thinks it’s #asylumseekers’ fault for being persecuted, like its kids fault they are molested by priests #auspol”

  227. Fran Barlow

    Diogenes

    [While I have no sympathy for a douchebag like Morrison, being Immigration Minister has to be the shittiest job in the country]

    Very doubtful. I won’t bother composing a list.

    I’m not even sure it counts as an undesirable job. Certainly, it’s awesomely well paid. As is true in most cases, it would be easy to wear it like a crown of thorns, but really that’s up to you and the company you keep.

  228. guytaur

    Oh Dear Pyne on lateline.

    *turns off*

  229. zoidlord

    @edj/1551

    Don’t see how that would be any different to Business Council Adviser, Maurice Newman?

  230. Edwina StJohn

    On so many levels ZOidy..

  231. zoidlord

    http://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/news/mcardle-plain-wrong-energy-says-howard-adviser/2174677/

    “Mr McArdle yesterday issued a press release claiming the days of Queenslanders subsidising energy sources that “were not commercially viable” should be declared over by an Abbott Government panel that will review the Renewable Energy Target. ”

    Oh dear:
    http://www.farmonline.com.au/news/agriculture/general/opinion/fta-falls-short-of-g20-challenge/2688574.aspx

    “FOR the Business Council, the measure of the success of the new free trade agreement with Korea is the access it will achieve for Australian exporters”.

    The Solution? Cut Import tariff’s.

  232. kezza2

    On the Education Debate

    It does not matter what the class size is, teachers’ qualifications, or wage, or what the mother thinks (unless she has no contact with the father), or her input, what matters is the father.

    If the father doesn’t think education is good for his children, then his children don’t think so, either.

    Men need to step up to the mark. And quickly.

  233. victoria

    [PNG locals employed by security guards at the Manus Island detention centre attacked asylum seekers with machetes, knives and rocks, an interpreter employed by the Immigration Department has claimed.]

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/armed-png-locals-behind-vicious-attack-on-manus-island-20140219-3314d.html#ixzz2tlkKOIMh

  234. kezza2

    vic @ 1563

    from your link

    [■ Senior navy officers and customs officials face possible disciplinary action over six incursions into Indonesian waters while turning back asylum-seeker boats.]

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/armed-png-locals-behind-vicious-attack-on-manus-island-20140219-3314d.html#ixzz2tllkvtrU

    So the navy has to shoulder the blame for obeying orders.

    As for the interpreter, Azita Bokan, I’m glad she’s a woman of integrity. Hope she gets a good lawyer.

  235. Acerbic Conehead

    Edwina StJohn,

    [I dont understand why crossing Indonesia’s maritime border is a big deal]

    Gad, Sir! You have the uncanny knack of calling a spade a slope, Sir!

    I couldn’t agree more! Let’s reclaim our manifest destiny one more time! Let’s set sail and show everyone that, compared to us, the Vikings were like a knot of nancy-boys!

    And by jingo, you’re right again, Sir! We’ve got some unfinished business to attend to up in Nam and Korea! Let’s show ‘em that, if they thought Rambo was tough, our very own Three-Star makes him look like Larry Limp-Wrist!

    And as for the Chinese, Sir – they better roll over and play dead, cos we’ve got our own wall-punching Oxford Blue to lead our Boxer Rebellion up there!

    Oh, and by the way, old chap, there’ll be a few aperitifs ready for you in the Officers’ Lounge before you sling your hook and set sail to give those dagos what for. Unfortunately, I can’t join you – old war wound, y’know – but they’ll send you happily on your way.

    Good luck, old bean and, be assured, the Chinese Navy is nothing more than a collection of old junks.

    See you in Maxim’s! Toodle-pip…

  236. victoria

    Kezza2

    If Morrison had any integrity, he would resign immediately

  237. Edwina StJohn

    Silly AC – sounds like you need a good session from a sjambok.

  238. swamprat

    victoria

    [If Morrison had any integrity, he would resign immediately]

    How quaint.

    you forget

    a) the LNP does not accept any Westminster conventions if they result in snouts out of troughs; and

    b) Morrison is a US “christian” who (weirdly) believe Geesuss only liked rich, white, militarily thugs .

  239. swamprat

    sorry “military”

  240. kezza2

    [victoria
    Posted Wednesday, February 19, 2014 at 11:26 pm | PERMALINK
    Kezza2

    If Morrison had any integrity, he would resign immediately]

    That will never happen: Integrity and Morrison do not compute.

    On the other hand, Eddie and Morrison are blood brothers.

  241. Acerbic Conehead

    Edwina,

    [Silly AC – sounds like you need a good session from a sjambok.]

    Please don’t air your fetishes in public like that- it’s totally unedifying.

  242. swamprat

    I wish someone, less indolent than me, would compile a list of Who Owns The Abbott Government.

    There seems a strong correlation between big funders and policy decisions in favour of their owners against the public good.

    – We know that the assistant Minister for Health is owned by the obesity industry;

    – The Attorney General is owned by Hollywood (NewsCorps)

    – The assist treasurer is owned by the BigBanks

    – The whole Cabinet is owned by Big Coal

    who else?

  243. deblonay

    Edwina St John(or is it Ed??) and do you know ?|________
    ____________________________________
    I see from post 1541.. you are back to yout old slanderous zionist tricks about me again…when will you ever learn.?? or are you too stupid ……and it seems you have nothing to say about the IDF and the torture of Palestinian kids…some as young as 5 years old…others cruxified in the cross on the jail walls for hours….
    As you haven’t yet seen(???) the 4 Corners program…have a good look…then defend Israel if you can !

    Many others here have seen it …it does your cause no good at all … or can’t you face the awful truth ?

    so while you go on slandering me on this site ,I will post it hoping for a wider audience. each time ..all bad news for the zionist cause

    http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/stories/2014/02/10/3939266.htm

  244. Darn

    Totally off topic. Can any of our QLD colleagues please tell me if the Gold Coast light rail is up and running yet. I just read that the first stage was scheduled to be finished by January 2014.

  245. Edwina StJohn

    Again with the chews !

  246. davidwh

    Darn I believe it ran for the first time this week and had an accident on Day 1.

  247. deblonay

    swamprat…1573________who owns who in Canberra ??
    __________
    Junk foods and the Booze industry seem to own the Asst-Health Minister Nash

    and by her statements whilst in Israel , Julie Bishop must be owned by Netanyahu …or Mr Yahoo as I hear him called in some US blogs…where he is now most unpopular(especially in the White House)

  248. swamprat

    thanks zoidloid.

    Why doesn’t the ALP says lots about this?

  249. deblonay

    What’d the story in Perth re Abbott not now funding a public transport scheme that Gillard approved?

    Will it be a issue in the Senate by-election in WA ???
    and how important ??>
    can a WA poster tell me

  250. Darn

    [davidwh
    Posted Wednesday, February 19, 2014 at 11:46 pm | Permalink
    Darn I believe it ran for the first time this week and had an accident on Day 1.
    ]

    Thanks David. Nothing serious I hope.

  251. swamprat

    deblonay

    [swamprat…1573________who owns who in Canberra ??
    __________
    Junk foods and the Booze industry seem to own the Asst-Health Minister Nash

    and by her statements whilst in Israel , Julie Bishop must be owned by Netanyahu …or Mr Yahoo as I hear him called in some US blogs…where he is now most unpopular(especially in the White House)]

    I would think few in the LNP are owned by Yahoo. They are owned by the US.

    She probably thinks that showing her inability to have a independent thought will get her a pat on the head from fat men in Washngton.

    It’s what lots of Australian MPs think (both LNP/ALP).

    It’s the craving to be a part of an Empire, now that Britain has very few Big Guns and the USofA still does, though they’re increasingly rusty..

    Sad and Pathetic, I know, but thats Australia.

  252. davidwh

    Darn no and I just checked and it has been running trials since October. Apparently a vehicle bounced off the train causing minor damage to both.

  253. kezza2

    Call from Germany just about to come through on Skype.

    Night all.

    Night vic.

  254. Darn

    [davidwh
    Posted Wednesday, February 19, 2014 at 11:59 pm | Permalink
    Darn no and I just checked and it has been running trials since October. Apparently a vehicle bounced off the train causing minor damage to both.
    ]

    Thanks again David. I’ve been keeping my eye on its progress. Apparently the long term plan is to have 40km of it – all the way to Coolangatta.

  255. rossmcg

    Deblonay

    The State libs were returned a year ago with grand plans for Perth’s public transport. They just forgot to mention that none of it would happen unless the Feds kicked in big dollars. I don’t know that Gillard ever promised the money but Abbott’s win meant there was no money for public transport anywhere, let alone Perth.
    the Barnett government has now put all projects on ice, out to 2017 in some cases, which is beyond the next election. Probably will never happen.

  256. davidwh

    Darn yes that’s correct. I think they have stage 1 operating.

  257. Fulvio Sammut

    The shark vote might turn on Barnett and bite him on the bum.

  258. Fulvio Sammut

    What’s Abbott’s position on sharks?

  259. deblonay

    Rossmcg 1589
    Re transport….
    and is Abbott’s decision unpopular in Perth and elsewhere ?

  260. Roger Miller

    WA state libs public transport plan was like the Fed libs NBN plan. A policy that was never going to happen as a response to a labor policy, so they could say “look, we have a policy too”. Labor was going to connect all the universitys that are currently seviced by busses, with light rail.

  261. Yesiree Bob

    Edwina StJohn@1494

    http://www.milesago.com/people/bacon-wendy.htm

    Read the 3rd para and you will understand the reference. This is the person Guytaur quotes as an authority on Operation Sovereign Borders!

    So, this person is a libertarian who went through a trial over distributing “banned” material, and you have a problem with that, to the point where you think that disqualifies her on having a point of view ?
    You really are an odd sort of person ESJ (apart from fairly concerning fascist view points)

  262. rossmcg

    Deblonay

    Don’t know that people blame Abbott. Barnett and his transport minister buswell have coped heaps. It’s not as though Abbott turned over a decision. If labor had won in September Barnett would still have had to convince them to fund his plans. He might have had a chance but with roads prime minister Abbott he probably didn’t even ask.
    I think I have read that the greens are running the line that it is abbott’s fault but that’s like a causes b, b causes c then it’s a’s fault.

  263. boomy1

    FS @ 1592
    [What’s Abbott’s position on sharks?]

    He probably thinks they are ‘baddies’, but who knows?, he’s a policy flake.

  264. deblonay

    Post 1596 Re E St J

    Yes… Yessiree Bob …he may be what is called a “zio-fascist”

  265. Yesiree Bob

    Edwina StJohn@1531

    Display Name the strong do what they will, the weak do what they must.

    Err, I put it to you that the Indonesians have bigger, badder, and stronger mates than we do.

  266. rossmcg

    Boomy

    Can I have two pieces of Abbott flake and three bucks of chips, salt no vinegar?

  267. Yesiree Bob

    Edwina StJohn@1576

    Again with the chews !

    I actually think that you both are as offensive as each other.

  268. Yesiree Bob

    rossmcg@1589

    Deblonay

    The State libs were returned a year ago with grand plans for Perth’s public transport. They just forgot to mention that none of it would happen unless the Feds kicked in big dollars. I don’t know that Gillard ever promised the money but Abbott’s win meant there was no money for public transport anywhere, let alone Perth.
    t

    One thing that I can not understand is just what is Abbotts aversion to Public Transport.
    Surely, in our major cities, it makes so much sense for Governments to invest in comprehensive Public Transport networks ?
    It takes excess traffic of our roads, freeing up freight etc.
    It lowers pollution.
    It makes our cities more ameniable

  269. Thomas. Paine.

    [I dont understand why crossing Indonesia’s maritime border is a big deal]

    Well then it should be no big deal if boats cross Austrlia’s maritime borders……and so how close do we let the boats get…and Indonesian warship 1 mile of Sydney, AS boats 500 meters of Darwin? Oh..or do you draw a line where it isn’t acceptable…like a maritime border.

    It will be a big deal, espcially since Abbott is losing Australian jobs left right and center…and Indonesia adds to that by cancelling any trade between the two, sends Australians home….fires a few shots over our bow…

    No these can never happen, history shows us the unthinkable never happens over trivial events.

    I reckon Abbott and the Scum managed to piss Indonesia off well before the election and have doubled down on their imperialist stupidity since.

    And of course other nations are looking at the Australian governments behavior and see the Howard govt’s white racists in power once more. Abbott sees himself as Obama’s mashall maybe..

    But you can bet Washington are looking at Abbott in total horror.

  270. rossmcg

    Yesiree Bob

    Yeah we know it makes sense but Abbott is a typical Tory when it comes to public transport. The WA libs were closing rail lines in the 70s and their most recent election policy had the look of something that had been cobbled together at short notice in response to labor plans.

  271. Tom the first and best

    1603

    Public transport is too communal for many on the right. They think cars equal freedom and personal responsibility and are thus inherently good. They are car users themselves and look down on those who are not. It is something that will hurt the right over time with the growth in PT use and relative decline in car travel and then they will be less opposed to PT.

  272. boomy1

    [Can I have two pieces of Abbott flake and three bucks of chips, salt no vinegar?]

    You don’t want lemon because we already sold you one…

  273. Thomas. Paine.

    [A sober reminder why we should treasure our democracy and its conventions, not trash them.

    @bbcworldservice: Hospitals in #Kiev are full, we’re moving the injured outside the capital to stop them being arrested – doctor in #Ukraine’s capital]

    Europe-CIA/USA -v- Russia-Gazprom.

    Europe and USA stoking civil violence in the Ukraine to bring them over to Europe and disrupt Russia’s Gazprom’s dominance.

    Likewise the Syria conflict was ALL about a gas pipeline being permitted .. that would degrade Russia’s energy dominance in Europe. Nothing to do with democracy or any nasty governments deeds… You have the CIA arming Al Qaeda in Syria to maintain civil strife. but fighting them in Afghanistan? Bizarre. Everywhere the US goes there is death and destruction and civil unrest.

  274. Yesiree Bob

    Rossmcg and Tom the first and best,
    What these people seem to forget is that most people who use Public Transport, also use cars.
    Taking the train to work makes far more sense than driving.
    It’s cheaper (you don’t have the fuel cost, nor the exorbitant parking fees).
    Not only that but PT frees up the roads for freight and other commercial traffic.
    It makes so much sense to have a comprehensive PT system.
    At what stage do you think our Torie government join the 21st century ?

  275. Thomas. Paine.

    [Once again, Good old USA is pushing the bully lines on TPP, and countries like Australia are falling for it.]

    Corporations have well and truly taken control of the USA. Makes no difference who they vote for, they all tow the same line and funded by the same corporations.

    Having shredded the US constitution (who better than an expert on the Constitution to help out there) the corporate world wants to increase their powers everywhere.

  276. zoidlord

    Well that was bit of excitement tonight, and it does make me pissed off that political will sell of assets.

    Power went out, rang energex about 11:30, came around about 10 minutes, fixed in about 15, power on bout midnight.

    Better service than private companies.

  277. rossmcg

    Tom

    I also think that one of the reasons for Tory dislike of PT was that they usually had a unionised workforce and breaking up the bus service and privatising it got rid another union and therefore, in their minds, hurt labor.
    Also years ago I spoke to a WA Nat who told me his constituents hated public transport because it was heavily subsidised but they never got to use it.

  278. zoidlord

    @Swamprat/1580

    Some companies/lobbies/groups donate to both parties and thus ALP won’t ban them?

    e.g.

    http://www.zdnet.com/au/lobby-pushing-for-australian-piracy-crackdown-donates-millions-7000026421/

    “An analysis by ZDNet of the annual donor returns listed on the Australian Electoral Commission (AEC) of reported donations to the political parties shows that since 1998, Village Roadshow has donated close to AU$4 million in total to the Labor and Liberal parties both federally and in the state branches.”

    But till ALP show me that they don’t do that anymore, they are no better than LNP.

  279. fredex

    Has this been posted?

    http://www.smh.com.au/national/dick-warburton-investigated-over-foreign-bribery-scandal-20140219-3313y.html

    [The senior businessman appointed by Prime Minister Tony Abbott to review Australia’s renewable energy target has been the subject of a secret internal investigation into his role as a former director of a firm involved in Australia’s worst foreign bribery scandal.

    The investigation findings were sent earlier this month to the Reserve Bank board and deal with Dick Warburton and his fellow former Note Printing Australia directors’ knowledge and handling of Note Printing Australia’s sanctions busting trip to Iraq in 1998. The investigation findings were sent earlier this month to the Reserve Bank board and deal with Dick Warburton and his fellow former Note Printing Australia directors’ knowledge and handling of Note Printing Australia’s sanctions busting trip to Iraq in 1998…..

    Mr Warburton’s appointment to lead the review of the RET, announced earlier this week, has drawn severe criticism from environmental groups who have questioned whether the self-described climate change sceptic is an appropriate choice.]

  280. swamprat

    zoidloid

    [@Swamprat/1580

    Some companies/lobbies/groups donate to both parties and thus ALP won’t ban them?

    e.g.

    http://www.zdnet.com/au/lobby-pushing-for-australian-piracy-crackdown-donates-millions-7000026421/

    “An analysis by ZDNet of the annual donor returns listed on the Australian Electoral Commission (AEC) of reported donations to the political parties shows that since 1998, Village Roadshow has donated close to AU$4 million in total to the Labor and Liberal parties both federally and in the state branches.”

    But till ALP show me that they don’t do that anymore, they are no better than LNP.]

    It is the most blatant corruption.

    I believe no one should be able to bribe/pay for to those who would seek public office. It is so obviously aimed at corruption as the LNP gives testimony.

    Only the most cynical (or stupid) would pretend that the (same) money that has bought the US Government is now buying the Australian Government.

  281. deblonay

    Ton Paine and the Ukraine
    ______________
    You are right on the mark with the US-EU bid to destabilise Russia
    This was seen in the snide US media and poltical before the Sochi Games…they hoped the Games would nne a disaster…and they haven’t been..far from it

    \The US wants to damage the Russian oil and gas industry…but Putin will have none of that..and I suspect we will see some sort of Russian counter-attack in the coming months…perhaps high prices for EU buyers of gas?

  282. Tom the first and best

    1609

    That was me explaining the opinion of the right, not my (opposite) opinion.

    On this issue we may have to wait for some tories to be running the party who had some formative years in this millennium.

  283. Yesiree Bob

    Tom the first and best@1617

    1609

    That was me explaining the opinion of the right, not my (opposite) opinion.

    On this issue we may have to wait for some tories to be running the party who had some formative years in this millennium.

    I know, and agree.

  284. Yesiree Bob

    Actually, considering that the first thing people do before boarding a train in the morning, is to purchase a tabloid to read on the commute into town, you would think that Murdoch would have a quiet word in Tonies ear regarding increased PT funding.

  285. deblonay

    Re PT/rail and tory govts
    _______________
    Both Thatcher and Kennett hated railways and cut them back …for the reason some have given here

    Oddly in both the UK and Vic.. public anger over same led to the defeats of conservative govts

    Bracks outsmarted Kennett who closed a number of major railway lines..and would have abandonerd the whole system…but Bracks put big money into a railway revival and today the rural services in Vic are the best in Oz.with new tracks and a fleet of new Velocity trains to major regional centres like…. Geelong.Ballarat.Bendigo.Ararat.Echuca,and the La Trobe Valley towns.and with good longer services to places like Swan Hill/ Sale/Bairnsdale and Warnambool and Albury with buffets…great stuff and very much used and popular

    but Kennett would have wiped them out

  286. zoidlord

    Sinkholes in UK are more prominent now then a few years ago:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-26251220

    Another factor in “climate change deniers” will have to face, with extreme weather changes.

  287. Yesiree Bob

    Oh lordy, is that the time ?
    I’ve still got a chapter to finish on an excellent book documenting how Murdoch operates, night all

  288. swamprat

    What a Ministry of Trough Feeders but still never ever responsible for anything uncomfortable that occurs…

    Fiona Nash, Minister for Obesity,

    Greg Hunt, Minister for War on the Environment,

    Scott Morrison, Hillsong Minister for Brutality and Lies

    Tony Abbott, PM for Suppression of Science, Nodding a Lot and “Jobs Come and Go”

    A. Sidonis, Minister for Stripping Super Accounts

    E. Abetz Minister for Restoration of the Unter-Mensch

    Bishop (jar), Minister for Being Blonde and Glaring

    Christopher Pyne, Minister for Squeals and Propaganda

    Constable P Dutton, Minister to Maximise Private Profit from Sickness and Suffering

    Hockey, Treasurer for the Carbon Tax excuse

    and on it goes…

  289. zoidlord

    http://www.roymorgan.com.au/findings/5432-most-important-problem-facing-australia-world-february-2014-201402190534

    “The largest problems facing Australia are The Economy/ Economic problems/ Interest rates 12% (down 2%), Unemployment 11% (up 2%), Politics and Leadership 11% (up 3%) and Refugees and Asylum seeker problems 9% (unchanged).”

    Better get too it Tony, Jobs are important, ignore this other rubbish about cracking down on Piracy, TPP agreements etc.

  290. mexicanbeemer

    kezza2

    Too a point i agree but i have known of kids in single parent homes minus father that have been highly successful.

    The gender of the parent means little, attitude is genderless

  291. Otiose

    UPDATE: 06:24:00 20/02/2014 —- Nett_NEWS++™ http://bit.ly/1aQcqOy #auspol http://bit.ly/1fgvQko