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Federal Politics 2013-

Mar 16, 2014

Nielsen: 51-49 to Coalition

The latest Nielsen poll strengthens the impression from last month's result that the series may be leaning to the Coalition relative to the other pollsters.

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GhostWhoVotes relates that the monthly Nielsen poll in tomorrow’s Fairfax has the Coalition leading 51-49. I’m not clear if this is based on respondent-allocated or previous election preferences, but the respective results in last month’s poll were 51-49 and 52-48. The Coalition primary vote is steady on 44%, Labor is up two to 35%, and the Greens are steady on 12%. Tony Abbott’s approval is steady on 45% and his disapproval is up two to 49%, while his lead as preferred prime minister is down from 49-39 to 48-43. More to follow …

UPDATE: James J in comments relates that the poll also shows 52% support a means test for Medicare bulk billing versus 46% opposed, and the following results on what the government should do about Qantas: 30% remove foreign ownership restrictions, 20% provide debt guarantee, 3% both, 41% neither.

UPDATE 2: Full tables here.

UPDATE 3 (Essential Research): After a week at 50-50, Essential Research has the Coalition back at 51-49 in front, their primary vote up a point to 43%, Labor’s down two to 36%, the Greens up one to 9% and the Palmer United Party steady at 4%. Other questions find respondents tending to oppose relaxing restrictions on the media, with 31% favouring more regulation, 15% favouring less and 36% thinking the present situation about right, while 43% are opposed to relaxing cross-media ownership laws with 29% supportive. Twenty-six per cent say they would prefer having the same party in government at both federal and state tiers against 24% who would prefer different parties and 36% who say it makes no difference. Respondents were asked if they would prefer the federal or state government to be responsible for various areas of policy, with the federal government favoured for everything except roads, regional investment and public transport.

William Bowe — Editor of The Poll Bludger

William Bowe

Editor of The Poll Bludger

William Bowe is a Perth-based election analyst and occasional teacher of political science. His blog, The Poll Bludger, is one of the most heavily trafficked forums for online discussion of Australian politics, and joined the Crikey stable in 2008.

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2109 comments

2,109 thoughts on “Nielsen: 51-49 to Coalition

  1. swamprat

    GG

    God, I du=id not know David Frost was 1972!!! I liked him a lot. 🙂

  2. AussieAchmed

    Greensborough Growler 2005

    Posted Wednesday, March 19, 2014 at 10:08 pm | Permalink

    Did Abbott or Hockey write that drivel for you?

  3. Greensborough Growler

    swamprat,

    You seem to need someone to give you a hug ( or a donation)

    All that angst and anger.

    People can pursue their interests in any way as long as they do it legally.

    Bold “theyorta’ assertions really are the refuge of a feeble mind.

  4. Rossmore

    In lay persons terms, on what basis did AWH charge Sydney Water for services (which they then funneled thru to the Lp). Exactly what services did AWH provide.Sydney Water presumably had checks and balances in their payments systems… Why didnt these pick up the payments to AWH?

    This is mind boggling. Admittedly, I am from Victoria, not NSW.

  5. Greensborough Growler

    AA,

    You like to embarrass yourself from time to time. This is one of those occaisions.

    Read the start of the post for the source.

  6. swamprat

    GG

    [swamprat,

    You seem to need someone to give you a hug ( or a donation)

    All that angst and anger.]

    That is possibly true: the hug not the donation. 🙂

  7. confessions

    AA:

    It comes down to poor judgement at the end of the day, coupled with a massive sense of entitlement, and that these people are invariably in positions of authority or power at the time.

    I’ve lost count of the number of times a so-called small government conservative rails publicly against taxpayer-funded waste only to be found later to be massively rorting the taxpayer for his/her own personal benefit.

    A bit like fundies who soil their panties at the idea of same sex relationships only to be caught with their trousers round their ankles nailing the butler in the broom closet.

  8. deblonay

    Re Sinandinous
    _________
    I first read of him when he left Howard’s office in Howard’s last term as PM…and one of the commentators ..perhaps O”Brien …saying later that Howard’s office wasn’t functioning as smoothly or as cunningly as when Mt Sin. was there…a masterly operator I think and one that Howard must have regretted lossing…and thus destined for a top job when the Libs came back to power…now for him..alas ???

    funny to think that Obeid and Tripodi and that multi-cultura thugish band of right-wing NSW ALP bandits caught him in their net too

    I thinkj Sin must have gone off to make some BIG and EASY money

  9. swamprat

    GG

    I find the “structural” corruption and the obvious conflict between being a Minister for Health responsible for preventative health (is that true?) and actions against health outcomes mind boggling.

    But it has passed with little interest from the ALP/Greens/Media.

    That makes me angry, futile as it is.

  10. davidwh

    AA 1998 not even a little.

  11. crikey whitey

    Rossmore. Exactly.

    What the hell and how and why is it that these ‘entities’ are able to position themselves and their self awarded amazing largesse.

    Scratched head on my part. WTF.

  12. swamprat

    Just curious as to why the Rightbots are not here tonight.

    Is there more to Artie’s behaviour than we hoi poloi are allowed to know?

  13. Darren Laver

    [A bit like fundies who soil their panties at the idea of same sex relationships only to be caught with their trousers round their ankles nailing the butler in the broom closet.]

    Graphic!

    But all too often apt.

  14. swamprat

    I saw Erica Betz, the Tas Senator on 7:30 tonight. ( I never watch 7:30, it was an accident. True)

    I thought whoever created such an Automaton showed awesome talent but the voice is a dead giveaway. It is not human at all.

  15. davidwh

    We have the annual meeting of the RightBots Club of PB being held at NewsCorp HQ tonight. I be left behind to hold the fort.

  16. Darren Laver

    [Ladies and Gentlemen.
    I feel the time has come for me to speak out.
    For I believe, as many of us believe, that we will, all of us as we have before, and we can, nay must, once again if we are to be and — make no mistake about it — we cannot afford not to be.
    For, and let us be perfectly clear about this, in the past few months we have proved without and beyond any doubt, that we do.
    And we will continue to do strongly, firmly,and gently, as we have in the past, but, and this is a big but, now at the same time — and this is a question only you can answer — shall we be looking FORWARD, as we do as we all do, indeed as it is our duty to do, at this time of decision, or not?
    That is the question you must ask yourselves today.
    But I hear you saying, ah, if only it were that clear,
    And I know, and here I must disagree for a moment, where would the country be, without this great land of ours.]

    You are on fire tonight GG.

    But while Fran might be as verbose as the above, I am not sure her comments are that vacuous.

  17. geoffrey

    Darren Laver
    Posted Wednesday, March 19, 2014 at 8:06 pm | PERMALINK
    Apparently Crimea has returned to the “motherland”… With Putin organising a photo op bash on the infamous Red Square.

    Where is Rudd when you need him? Wasn’t he going to solve this crisis?
    —————-everyone protested rudd again and he didn’t get to try otherwise this debacle would not have happened

  18. confessions

    First time watching 730 since Sales went on mat leave. This new host is like a little terrier with the ghastly Abetz. Is she normally like this?

  19. Greensborough Growler

    Darren,

    I fulsomely agree.

    She is far beyond vaccuous.

  20. lefty e

    I know Shorto hasnt got very good press contacts, but maybe he could write a letter to the editor about this:

    http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/callous-cut-to-income-support-bonus-for-children-of-war-veterans-including-orphans/story-fnii5yv6-1226857392080

  21. swamprat

    OK sorry davidwh.

    I was not informed that Rupert called you to a Love-in.

    I assume it was to discuss the awesome views of Lord Rupert on the lost Malaysian Plane or was it about the utter nonsense of scientific truth (or any truth) that undermines corporate profits?

  22. geoffrey

    it is clear why ukrainians just so worried esp about president staying on a yet – the plan as putin revealed half cocked was complete invasion with lay down president and run down troops – he only got to roll out plan in crimea – let him have his moment of pumped glory and the shit russians who follow him their day in the sun because all world including chinese knows what putin was on about – its downhill now.

  23. confessions

    [Graphic!]

    But realistic. Think all those UK Tory MPs caught in sex scandals having publicly shaken their fists and their heads at any behaviour they deemed to be immoral.

    I keep waiting for Sen. Bernardi to be tripped up by his OTT statements about same sex relationships and so-called ‘traditional’ families.

  24. deblonay

    Another US foreign policy disaster
    __________________________”
    Mike Whitney a US academic and writer for Counterpunch” looks at the aftermath of the US inspired coup in Kiev and sees it as just another of the chain of disasters over which the US has presided ion recent times…Iraq/Libya and now Ukraine.

    ..with a neo-fascist regime ,and a ruined economy and it’s people soon to be lashed by the Banksters of the IMF..who will give them the Greek Treatment…while all the US efforts will be seen as ineffectual and counter=productive…and to add a touch of low comedy…he has the assistance of Julie Bishop !!!!

    http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/03/18/obama-backs-down-on-crimea/

  25. deblonay

    why doesn’t someone ask Arbetz about his uncle Otto !! and Otto’s old friends

  26. geoffrey

    o no deblonay our in house apologist for the putin bleitzeig against the neo con neo nazi american led insurrection seeking to impose business interests on the deluded ukrainain people – he is online, i overlooked

    anything but russian nostalgia mr deblonay it is so … ah, inappropriate

    of course mr putin had no ambitions over annexation and control over ukraine … a rare us foreign policy success one might say

  27. Tom the first and best

    2034

    Probably because his great uncle died the year he was born and he is unlikely to be an adherent of “national socialism”.

  28. Rossmore

    Darren Laver 2025

    May be wrong here but I think you’ll find GGs oratory you quote is a classic quote from Peter Sellers….

  29. Jackol

    Is she normally like this?

    Yeah, pretty much. Sarah Ferguson gets credit for tenacity.

  30. confessions

    [why doesn’t someone ask Arbetz about his uncle Otto !! and Otto’s old friends]

    Probably because most Australian voters are more interested in what he’s doing as federal IR minister TODAY than what his long-dead relative did decades ago.

  31. geoffrey

    deblonay — you forgot to mention the memorable day when stalin attended to end of ww2 celebration in red square and in the crush 500 died … or the towers in back street when people jumped or pushed during stalins earlier triumphant rule — ah the memories of downtown moscow

  32. deblonay

    Inside the Vic Libs
    ______________
    This AM on Faine’s program..ABC … Lord Mayor Doyle gave a real blast against the right to Life storm-troppers who harrass women patients attending an abortion clinic in East Melbourne
    He plans he said to see if he can to use the new legislation” to
    move” on the R to Lifers who make the life of woman patients there ,a misery
    Interesting in view of the bitter controversy inside the Libs over Abortion in Vic at present
    Doyle being one of the” small l” Liberals

  33. Darren Laver

    [ But realistic. Think all those UK Tory MPs caught in sex scandals having publicly shaken their fists and their heads at any behaviour they deemed to be immoral.]

    Oh yes, and I think it is quite common in the US too — a Republican Senator was caught trying to solicit some sort of sexual encounter in an airport restroom. He was previously a known “family values” politician and all round homophobe.

    Warren Entsch also noted that those who protest too much… But following that comment Bernadi was “consulting his lawyers”, not sure what came of that.

  34. Rossmore

    Greg Hunt … What a weak disingenuous politician … Trotting out the usual vacuous speaking points on Lateline … His plan for endangered species….

    A three point plan … Wow
    A war on feral pigs … Double wow
    A 15000, emphasise 15,000, Green Army of young Australians

    You couldn’t make this up….

  35. Darren Laver

    Debloney seems to be obsessed with glamourising the Putin regime and accusing all and sundry of being nazis.

    Not helpful.

  36. confessions

    Jackol:

    She certainly was tenacious, I’ll give her that.

  37. Acerbic Conehead

    AA,

    [Jeez, what is it with Liberals in govt?
    ==============================================

    It’s the fault of;

    Corrupt Unions

    The Carbon “tax” (sic)

    The MRRT

    ALP

    Indonesia

    Asylum seekers

    SPC Holden Ford Toyota]

    The tides and currents have got to be up there as well.

  38. swamprat

    this is what all Tory’s stand for:

    http://www.pinterest.com/pin/41728734021999460/

    It’s called Austerity….haha

  39. deblonay

    Geoffrey 2040\________
    ____________Your endless russophobia…from whatever source it comes from ..is not relevant to my comments on the ancient architecture of central Moscow..

    All the great cities of Europe have terrible events in their past…..what about the grandeur of Vienna,or the great square of Munich,or the splendid vistas of Berlin and the Brandenburg Gate,and the Place de Concorde in Paris…all summon up a whole world of memories

  40. geoffrey

    Acerbic Conehead
    Posted Wednesday, March 19, 2014 at 11:02 pm | PERMALINK
    AA,

    Jeez, what is it with Liberals in govt?
    ==============================================

    It’s the fault of;

    Corrupt Unions

    The Carbon “tax” (sic)

    The MRRT

    ALP

    Indonesia

    Asylum seekers

    SPC Holden Ford Toyota

    The tides and currents have got to be up there as well.

    —–+ schoolteacher and school administrators + state ed departments
    red tape
    regulations
    more red tape
    the greens
    demonstrators
    lefties
    baddies in syria
    dodgy greedy no genuine asylum seekers
    pre school teaching assistant activists

  41. AussieAchmed

    Sinodinos gets $2,000 an hour working for AWH.

    Person working in hospitality gets around $15.50 an hour.

    And he, along with the rest of his Govt is after your working entitlements.

    Only a moron would not see the injustice in this

  42. swamprat

    deblonay, regardless of whether Hitler was a Nazi, there seems little doubt that the whole Crimea anschluse was a well planned and successful Putin military operation.

    After Bosnia, he knew the EU was more Chamberlain than Chamberlain and that the US will never fight in any war where the natives had a weapon more than spears.

    It was so easy and I am sure he will be embolden to take more.

  43. bemused

    One for deblonay (and others)…

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DuWE8GJnN5w

  44. confessions

    DL:

    Hell yeah, US Republicans frickin excel at impaling themselves on their own moral high standards.

  45. geoffrey

    Geoffrey 2040\________
    ____________Your endless russophobia…from whatever source it comes from ..is not relevant to my comments on the ancient architecture of central Moscow..

    ———you are very funny. i will not be bullied by you or your mate putin. as i said your boys own nostaglia for all things russia is INAPPROPRIATE and yes, call me russophobic if only tonight, but after looking at that standing overation in the great hall you so admire I have decided to cancel my routine scholarly excursion into st petersburg and moscow when I normally seek to convert the medieval hordes in post modern enlightenment. no apology and no prisoners mr deblonay – you are on your own here, a real disgrace, its just that no one else bothers to give your oxygen. go on now, instead of taking offence, make some, any, criticism of putin and we might all et you back into the international PB fold

  46. geoffrey

    swamprat
    Posted Wednesday, March 19, 2014 at 11:11 pm | PERMALINK
    deblonay, regardless of whether Hitler was a Nazi, there seems little doubt that the whole Crimea anschluse was a well planned and successful Putin military operation.

    After Bosnia, he knew the EU was more Chamberlain than Chamberlain and that the US will never fight in any war where the natives had a weapon more than spears.

    It was so easy and I am sure he will be embolden to take more.

    –no the operation was for all ukraine not little crimea.
    putin is basically furious. let him has his moment of glory in deblonay’s exonerated great hall of the bloody tsar of all people – we all know what he is and will not forget never forget him and those scarey russian supporters. let them all suffer slowly

  47. bemused

    geoffrey@2054

    Geoffrey 2040\________
    ____________Your endless russophobia…from whatever source it comes from ..is not relevant to my comments on the ancient architecture of central Moscow..

    ———you are very funny. i will not be bullied by you or your mate putin. as i said your boys own nostaglia for all things russia is INAPPROPRIATE and yes, call me russophobic if only tonight, but after looking at that standing overation in the great hall you so admire I have decided to cancel my routine scholarly excursion into st petersburg and moscow when I normally seek to convert the medieval hordes in post modern enlightenment. no apology and no prisoners mr deblonay – you are on your own here, a real disgrace, its just that no one else bothers to give your oxygen. go on now, instead of taking offence, make some, any, criticism of putin and we might all et you back into the international PB fold

    Gee you rave on with rubbish geoffrey.

  48. Edwina StJohn

    Oh dear has he been hitting the sherry again ? …..

  49. Douglas and Milko

    Deblonay@2034

    It was grand uncle otto who was the Nazi COMPTROLER of occupied France (I.e NOT Vichy France) according to William Shirer, author of Rise and Fall the 3rd Reich, and other knowledgeable sources. So, if you look at Eric Abetz’ Wikipedia entry, it is surprising to see that Abetz describes Grand Uncle OTTO’S role as being “German Ambassador to Vichy France”. I suspect this was one of Grand Uncle Otto’S appointments. But why deny the real role played in occupied France by Otto Abetz? We are not all comfortable with what our forbears did, they were products of the times they lived in. But why does Erik Abetz try and hide behind a very much watered down account of the role of his grand uncle in occupied France?

  50. geoffrey

    the Borsche page has been ripped out of the soup book
    now where is that robyn williams american talent show skit on the russian contestant?

    i love the russian underground the saints of freedom and pussy rioters

  51. deblonay

    F Zammit re Russian policy

    ________
    In my comments on Rusia and Putin I have always quoted from US sources like Counterpunc..and never fromRussian ones.
    Obviously you have not read widely on this topic…because if one disregards the Murdoch tabloids one would see that a large number of US writers ,like Escobar in Counterpunch are saying the same things,as in fact I have shown here by my postings

    No less a Putin-controlled journal; than the L.A Times has virtually the same views as I have on this topic….the US Neo-cons inviolvement in the coup/the pronounced neo-fascist elements in Kiev..which the LA Times examines at length….
    if many in that the new regime are being described as fascists… it may be that they are !
    Counterpunch(US !!) comments below

    http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/03/17/russia-1-regime-changers-0/

  52. geoffrey

    bemused

    humourless git

    i thought my rhetoric rather magnificent there … i love the vitriole here (not) but at least I try to overdo with some Bob Ellis flourish nothing like the master of course (no i am not him although have often been mistaken)

  53. swamprat

    Douglas et al

    [It was grand uncle otto who was the Nazi COMPTROLER of occupied France (I.e NOT Vichy France) according to William Shirer, author of Rise and Fall the 3rd Reich, and other knowledgeable sources. So, if you look at Eric Abetz’ Wikipedia entry, it is surprising to see that Abetz describes Grand Uncle OTTO’S role as being “German Ambassador to Vichy France”. I suspect this was one of Grand Uncle Otto’S appointments. But why deny the real role played in occupied France by Otto Abetz? We are not all comfortable with what our forbears did, they were products of the times they lived in. But why does Erik Abetz try and hide behind a very much watered down account of the role of his grand uncle in occupied France?]

    Does that mean that poor little nephew Eric had no choice but to join the Liberal Party?

    I mean isn’t “blood” uber all?

  54. geoffrey

    deblonay
    Posted Wednesday, March 19, 2014 at 11:24 pm | PERMALINK
    F Zammit re Russian policy

    ________
    In my comments on Rusia and Putin I have always quoted from US sources like Counterpunc..and never fromRussian ones.
    Obviously you have not read widely on this topic…because if one disregards the Murdoch tabloids one would see that a large number of US writers ,like Escobar in Counterpunch are saying the same things,as in fact I have shown here by my postings

    No less a Putin-controlled journal; than the L.A Times has virtually the same views as I have on this topic….the US Neo-cons inviolvement in the coup/the pronounced neo-fascist elements in Kiev..which the LA Times examines at length….
    if many in that the new regime are being described as fascists… it may be that they are !
    Counterpunch(US !!) comments below

    —- points of view welcome but they dont write your sepia nostalgia than disguises as pro putin rationalisation – i ask again, you have no problem with this world leader??

  55. Edwina StJohn

    The truly interesting question Douglas is why did Eric’s parents emigrate to Tasmania within weeks of uncle ottos tragic autobahn ” accident” ? Was it indeed an accident or a princess di style accident because uncle ottos past had caught up with him and the rest of the clan decided it was too hot to remain in Germany and decided to go to the end of the world where no one would be looking for them ?

  56. confessions

    ‘Grand Uncle Otto’ died how many decades ago now? Way the hell more than matter to AUstralians in 2014 wondering exactly what his nephew is cooking up in terms of IR reform.

    I get that some people like to rehash the irrelevant past, but FFS there’s a bigger picture here.

  57. geoffrey

    Edwina StJohn
    Posted Wednesday, March 19, 2014 at 11:21 pm | PERMALINK
    Oh dear has he been hitting the sherry again ? …..

    ——to declare my own interests at least I am a good teatotaler of late – now can i guess if that was a requirement here the place would be fairly quiet??? oui

    this place is a little far left on matters russian

    look, the best one could say is that putin is a national socialist. but he is worse than that.

  58. Edwina StJohn

    Uncle Otto passed after the tragic accident in 1956

  59. deblonay

    Geoffrey ..
    I agree with Bemused and suggest that your try to write coherent sentences..that have a beginning,a middle, and an end…and pehaps only before you hit the bottle(or take more water with it)

  60. Edwina StJohn

    No problem Geoffrey , deblonay is just an old comm, he still thinks Hungary 56 and Czech 68 was justified action by the soviets to stop counter revolutionaries.

  61. geoffrey

    deblonay

    a few hundred right wingers does not make a revolution in kiev.

    anyway, off to something creative, too many rusted on memories (and ideology) here

  62. Douglas and Milko

    @swamprat @2062

    Yes it seems young Grand Nephew Eric took it all to heart so much that he needed to join the local conservatives, and defend Grand Uncle Otto’S legacy. Unlike Uncle Arfur (Sinodos) who completely repudiated his Greek parents somewhat liberal views.

  63. confessions

    [Uncle Otto passed after the tragic accident in 1956]
    I rest my case.

  64. swamprat

    confessions

    [I get that some people like to rehash the irrelevant past, but FFS there’s a bigger picture here.]

    Of course, that is a truism.

    But Big Pictures have never prevented humans discussing millions of little pictures.

    Often little pictures are more relevant than Big Pictures over which none of us “little people” have any control.

    And some of us are still waiting for the ALP to present a convincing truthful Big Picture.

  65. geoffrey

    deblonay
    Posted Wednesday, March 19, 2014 at 11:33 pm | PERMALINK
    Geoffrey ..
    I agree with Bemused and suggest that your try to write coherent sentences..that have a beginning,a middle, and an end…and pehaps only before you hit the bottle(or take more water with it)

    —————hah hah hah you old vodka drinking sod
    i imbide only the fresh air of inspiration
    i will not take lessons from you sir in politics, history, ideology, revolution, neither the right or left, the lonely heart traveller in RUSSia, god and above all else – style. ephemeral replies to you are not worthy of coherence care or even sincerity – give your english lessons to uncle putin that unholder of civilization and opera by the black sea (how’s that – you couldn’t outwrite me you old commo)

  66. deblonay

    The LA Times this week looked in detail at the rise of the far right/fascists in the Ukraine…
    no Putin influence in LA I am sure
    ________________
    http://www.latimes.com/opinion/commentary/la-oe-english-ukraine-neofascists-20140313,3347970,5402504.story#axzz2wPZn4APg

  67. geoffrey

    Edwina StJohn
    Posted Wednesday, March 19, 2014 at 11:33 pm | PERMALINK
    No problem Geoffrey , deblonay is just an old comm, he still thinks Hungary 56 and Czech 68 was justified action by the soviets to stop counter revolutionaries.

    ——–o thanks. that’s a great relief. i will spare him then and go bad to some serious …. yes writing, never drink!! life is too short for latter … talk soon!!!

  68. Edwina StJohn

    I think deblonays sobbing now Geoffrey as he thumbs his tribune collection.

  69. deblonay

    Es/Edwine SJ…wrong again your usual slanders
    ________________
    I have never been a member of the Communist party…for many years I was in the ALP(which from your right wing viewpoint might be much the same)

    I find it wryly amusing that you from your zionist background you seemed unfazed by the rise anywhere of a Neo-Nazi party…as is happening not only in Kiev but in many parts of Europe…notably Greece buit also in Hungary
    and elsewhere too

  70. pedant

    For all that it’s coming out as a result of a corruption investigation, the killer blow for Sinner Senatordinos is probably the perception of sheer industrial grade greed. Getting yourself $200,000 (equivalent to winning the Opera House lottery, a meaningful metric for the older amongst us) for doing SFA by way of real work isn’t a good look for a government which is trying to put the kibosh on weekend and public holiday penalty rates. He’s a gift that will keep on giving for a while yet.

  71. Edwina StJohn

    Tell the truth deblonay 56 and 68 soviet invasions were things you supported weren’t they ?

  72. swamprat

    deblonay

    [he LA Times this week looked in detail at the rise of the far right/fascists in the Ukraine…
    no Putin influence in LA I am sure
    ________________
    http://www.latimes.com/opinion/commentary/la-oe-english-ukraine-neofascists-20140313,3347970,5402504.story#axzz2wPZn4APg%5D

    I have not read that LA times article but I do not think the makeup the tempoarary ruling groups in Kiev is relevant to a nasty contrived takeover in Crimea.

    I am all for self determination. I support the Crimeans, Uigyuirs, Tibetans, Catalonians, Scots etc being independent.

    I just DO NOT believe the recent “vote”in Crimea was honest.

  73. confessions

    [Often little pictures are more relevant than Big Pictures over which none of us “little people” have any control.]

    Then instead of buying into deblonnay’s delusional obsession with the past, explain how the current Sen. Abetz is in any way emulating the deeds committed by his uncle. That was the implication in deblonnay’s comment.

    I’ve seen MTBW (among others) hang, draw and quarter a woman without knowing anything about her simply because she is Warren Mundine’s wife. At some point this empty-headed bullshit has to end.

    Either Abetz has done something in public office which draws reasonable analogies with his Nazi uncle, or he hasn’t. Hint: even deblonnay has dropped this subject now.

  74. Edwina StJohn

    See never a bad word about the soviets from Cecil deblonay ,

  75. Fulvio Sammut

    Deblonay @ 2063 “F Zammit re Russian Policy”.

    What? If it’s me you’re referring to, I haven’t posted for days, and never about Russian Policy”.

  76. imacca

    [Either Abetz has done something in public office which draws reasonable analogies with his Nazi uncle, or he hasn’t.]

    I dont think he actually has. But, he is a shining example of how to be a nasty and ignorant piece of tory shite regardless.

  77. swamprat

    confessions

    [Either Abetz has done something in public office which draws reasonable analogies with his Nazi uncle, or he hasn’t. Hint: even deblonnay has dropped this subject now.]

    I do not condemn Abetz for being a Nazi nor resposible for the actions of his Natzi forebears.

    I condemn “him”/”it” for being an extreme Right-wing Robot by some nefarious Nr No.

  78. confessions

    [ But, he is a shining example of how to be a nasty and ignorant piece of tory shite regardless.]

    Yeah, because he’s a nasty, ignorant piece of Tory shite, not because he is necessarily the nephew of a Nazi.

  79. Douglas and Milko

    EStJ@ 2064. From my point of view, why does Eric Abetz not either leave Otto Abetz off his Wikipedia page – It was 3 generations ago, time to let it go? But if he must include his relationship to Grand Uncle Otto, then do not pretend that Otto Abetz’s major role in France between 1940 and 1945 A((roughly) was as German Ambassador to Vichy France. Why would someone 3 generations removed want to obfuscate the historical record? After discovering this obfuscation recently on a routine Internet search, I now think that senator Abetz has little integrity. You DO NOT MISLEAD PEOPLE WHO ARE RESEARCHING THE HISTORICAL RECORD. Especially when it was three generations ago. Before I discovered the misleading historical record, I thought people were having a bit of a free shot at Abetz, because of
    unfortunate family ties. Now, after seeing the historically misleading stuff, I think he is trying to use the family tie to his advantage in sone way

  80. swamprat

    I mean “Robot created by some nefarious Nr No”….

  81. Fulvio Sammut

    Did Abetz write his own Wikipedia page, or did someone edit or write it about him?

  82. Fran Barlow

    George Brandis is really getting his teeth into the attack on red tape. Apparently, there’s a lot of undesirable punctuation, collocation and even the occasional spelling error

    http://trib.al/7cciPir

    That’s why he gets the big bucks. 😉

  83. davidwh

    Is this PB or did I stumble into a 1939 forum?

  84. Fulvio Sammut

    You did that when you voted for an Abbott Government, David.

  85. swamprat

    davidwh

    PB forums (or fora, as Fran prefers) are always wide ranging geographical and temporal.

    We were discussing the LIberal Party, so 1930’s seems relevant, does it not?

  86. geoffrey

    swamprat
    Posted Wednesday, March 19, 2014 at 11:48 pm | PERMALINK
    deblonay

    [he LA Times this week looked in detail at the rise of the far right/fascists in the Ukraine…
    no Putin influence in LA I am sure
    ________________
    http://www.latimes.com/opinion/commentary/la-oe-english-ukraine-neofascists-20140313,3347970,5402504.story#axzz2wPZn4APg

    I have not read that LA times article but I do not think the makeup the tempoarary ruling groups in Kiev is relevant to a nasty contrived takeover in Crimea.

    I am all for self determination. I support the Crimeans, Uigyuirs, Tibetans, Catalonians, Scots etc being independent.

    I just DO NOT believe the recent “vote”in Crimea was honest.
    ————— yes. getting serious, you are correct. i am not sure dismantling of national states what do you think? nor the inscribing of regions around old tribal or linguistic majorities, even if in the end such blocs do get better participation in any electoral system. but yes whatever the formula decentralisation of much decision making seems way to go. to be honest, from what one can tell what crimea was – an autonomous self governing region – seems to have been that in many ways.

  87. geoffrey

    davidwh
    Posted Thursday, March 20, 2014 at 12:05 am | PERMALINK
    Is this PB or did I stumble into a 1939 forum?

    —–well said. on the other hand some moments here might just reflect parts of the international mindset esp those into the kremlin sanctum of romantic nationalism. those mad ruskites. i mean when america transgresses as it often does it can be hoisted on the petard of its own constitutional ideals but russia and its poor folk as a western country have never had an epoch or foundation of such aspiration rights or freedoms.

  88. swamprat

    geoffrey

    Scotland has always been a national state, older than most others in Europe. It’s (unelected) parliament joined itself with the Westminster one, in 1707. It was a combination of two nations, not the extinguishment of one.

    If Scotland votes for independence in September it will just be withdrawing from a Union that no longer serves it’s interests.

  89. crikey whitey

    EricH is the actual spelling of Senator Abetz’s first name.

  90. Fulvio Sammut

    I support independence for Queensland, but the blighters refuse to leave.

  91. swamprat

    Fulvio

    I agree, both Qld and NSW should be placed under interdict (Papal control) until they reform themselves

  92. geoffrey

    Fulvio Sammut
    Posted Thursday, March 20, 2014 at 12:18 am | PERMALINK
    I support independence for Queensland, but the blighters refuse to leave.

    ——-silly. we cant all live in SA and call it the civilized free domain of australia (isn’t that what they always thought of themselves in fact were)

  93. Fulvio Sammut

    Does the Constitution allow for excommunication, swamprat?

  94. deblonay

    Actually
    I have not seen any suggestion the Crimean referendum was in any way rigged
    Give that about 2/3 of voters were ethnic Russians,and that ,many others abstained the final result was about what one would expect …
    and the Crimea was always Russian until Kruschev’s extraordinary decisions in the 1950ies to pl;ace it under Ukrainian rule..in the old Soviet Union that didn’t matter much,but today it does

  95. geoffrey

    o dear deblonay you and thom are an indefatigible two of a kind – if you’re not careful i might report you to my ex hungarian neighbour who once was handy in street fighting, so much so that he will still not disclose what he exactly did in the uprising. i will leave you with your red army collection and as someone else aptly said your collection of dusty tribunes. am thankful to have been spared either because of upbringing or age the temptation you must have had to all things east european, and am free to conceive other forms of contemporary communalism. if you send me your address will also send a half dress full bodied shot of your new found deliverer for you to also admire late at night – and no, I wont forward to to my elder political asylum neighbour.

  96. zoidlord

    Anyone who thought SOPA was dead in USA, think again:
    http://www.thenewamerican.com/economy/item/17861-sopa-dead-in-congress-alive-in-trans-pacific-partnership

    Liberals are playing with fire on TPP grounds.

  97. silentmajority

    Independence for Scotland!

    Down with the English!

    http://bellacaledonia.org.uk

  98. ausdavo

    Arrived in Thailand this evening. Now on line in our Bangkok hotel. No sign of any demonstrators so far.

    Will provide an overview as I travel around.

    Off to Khon Kaen on Saturday.

    A week later we will be attending a large Buddhist “village wedding” – 400 guests plus ‘lookers on”.

    Strangely this religious wedding has no recognition in Thai law. Only an “amphur wedding” (government office) is legally binding.

    Imagine the uproar in Australia if the Registry Office was the only legally binding wedding.

  99. Otiose

    → → 20/03/2014 03:43 —- Nett_NEWS++™ @ http://bit.ly/1aQcqOy Au Revoir Ar’fur http://bit.ly/1lOZXR6 by David Rowe ©