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Federal Election 2016

Mar 23, 2014

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Red and blue numbers respectively indicate booths with two-party majorities for Labor and Liberal. Click for larger image. Map boundaries courtesy of Ben Raue at The Tally Room.

The electorate of Adelaide has existed without fundamental change since South Australia was first divided into electorates in 1903, currently stretching from the city centre to the Labor strongholds of Prospect, Enfield and Brompton to the north and an electorally mixed bag of areas to the east and south. There are sources of Liberal strength in Walkerville to the north-east of the city, Toorak Gardens to the east and Malvern to the south. Labor first won Adelaide in 1908, and it was usually held by them from then until 1988. It was lost in that year at a by-election caused by the resignation of Chris Hurford, falling to Liberal candidate Mike Pratt with an 8.4% swing. Labor recovered the seat at the 1990 election, but an unfavourable redistribution together with a swing fuelled by hostility to the state government delivered it to Liberal candidate Trish Worth in 1993. Worth’s margin never rose above 3.5% in her 11 years as member, and she survived by just 343 votes in 2001. Labor finally toppled her in 2004 when inner-city seats across the land bucked the national shift to the Coalition, a decisive 1.9% swing delivering Adelaide to Kate Ellis. In keeping with statewide trends, the seat moved solidly to Labor in 2007 (by 7.2%), recorded little change in 2010 (a 0.8% Liberal swing), and swung to the Liberals in 2013 (reducing the margin from 7.5% to 3.6%).

Kate Ellis is associated with the Shop Distributive and Allied Employees Association and its attendant “Catholic Right” faction, and is close to its powerful state figurehead, outgoing Senator Don Farrell. After serving her apprenticeship as an adviser to state Industry Minister Rory McEwen and Treasurer Kevin Foley, Ellis won preselection for Adelaide at the age of 27 in 2004, following the late withdrawal of Tim Stanley, an industrial lawyer and later Supreme Court justice. Her path was smoothed by a three-way factional deal that secured Hindmarsh for Steve Georganas of the “soft Left” and Makin for Dana Wortley of the “hard Left” (who nevertheless lost the preselection to Tony Zappia, but was compensated with a Senate seat).

Ellis was promoted to the outer ministry at the age of 30 following the 2007 election victory, beating Paul Keating’s record as Labor’s youngest ever minister. Following the 2010 election she was reassigned from her portfolios of youth and sport to employment participation, childcare and the status of women, exchanging the latter for early childhood and youth when Kevin Rudd resumed the leadership in June 2013. In common with the rest of her faction, Ellis was a strong supporter of Julia Gillard’s leadership, making headlines shortly before Rudd’s February 2012 challenge by claiming Rudd had asked her and other SDA figures how they could reconcile their “conservative brand of Catholicism” with “a childless, atheist ex-communist as Labor leader”. Following the 2013 election defeat she received a substantial promotion to shadow cabinet in the education portfolio.

William Bowe — Editor of The Poll Bludger

William Bowe

Editor of The Poll Bludger

William Bowe is a Perth-based election analyst and occasional teacher of political science. His blog, The Poll Bludger, is one of the most heavily trafficked forums for online discussion of Australian politics, and joined the Crikey stable in 2008.

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1361 comments

1,361 thoughts on “Seat of the week: Adelaide

  1. sohar

    You’ll probably find that Q&A will focus on the Howes stuff. Jones will try to steer clear of Sinodinos and the bigots.

  2. confessions

    [But the AHA have him by the balls of course.]

    Every other state seems to be moving towards more regulation over pub trading hours. Even in boganville Perth it was deemed inevitable after all the Northbridge nightclub and street violence.

  3. ruawake

    ‘fess

    Via ICAC we have discovered that the head of the AHA was soliciting prepaid $5,000 donations to Newman, AWH is one party that paid.

  4. confessions

    rua:

    Well well, that’s very interesting.

  5. psyclaw

    #1023 Diogenes

    That you call those here who fail to condemn Howes “dimwitted union thugs” reflects very poorly on you.

    You demonstrate a poverty of thought, vocabulary, insight and courtesy.

  6. frednk

    Well today is the 24th/03/2014

    And the poll result is definitely 54% to labor.

    http://www.roymorgan.com/morganpoll

  7. MTBW

    BK

    I saw a little of it from the commission. Pell looked to me like a broken man and deservedly so.

  8. zoidlord

    RE: Morgan,

    Will wait for the liberals on PB to dismiss.

  9. WeWantPaul

    [You demonstrate a poverty of thought, vocabulary, insight and courtesy.
    ]

    And here I thought it was a very sound conclusion based on all the evidence.

  10. Paddy O

    For what it’s worth

    WA figures 52 Alp 48 Coal from Roy Morgan
    Buswell backlash?

  11. ruawake

    [Analysis by States

    The ALP leads in Australia’s three largest States. NSW: ALP (54.5%) cf. L-NP (45.5%), Victoria: ALP (55%) cf. L-NP (45%) and Queensland: ALP (56.5%) cf. L-NP (43 .5%).

    In Western Australia the ALP (52%) leads the L-NP (48%) only two weeks before Western Australia votes in a special half-Senate election on April 5. The ALP also leads narrowly in South Australia and leads in Tasmania]

    Ooops

    If the WA poll is kosher, poor Tony.

  12. deblonay

    Geoffrey and Putin
    ____________
    It’s very difficult to conduct any sort of debate with you in view of your usual ignorance and refusal to consider key facts
    Some facts you are ignorant are…..

    I am not a Communist and no way do I see Putin as my hero(in fact in Russia the Communists are his major enemy)
    In case you missed it (as you do so many things)the USSR is gone

    Fact..Putin is an old Russian conservative Nationalist. He has restored order to the ruined economy after the Yeltzin years when inflation ruined millions,notably the elderly with small pensions…many WW2 widows

    Fact He introduced a most coservative tax regime…a 13% flat tax on all…Hockey and Abbott would love it…but it stabilised the economy
    I think such taxes are unjust btw…but conservatives love them

    Fact He has gained the support of the most conservative institution in Russia…the Orthodox Church…much persecuted under the Soviets…but now back in the box seat…I saw the Patriach and his men in all their splendid robes with Putin in the Kremlin last week during his major speech.on TV ..he has them all on board…rather like the Czars really

    In a way Putin has restored an older conservative Russia,and the US-backed coup in Kiev has also played into his hands with public opinion

    Fact…He is a clever operator

    All these are important facts to know about his regime and the way you dismiss such by describing me and people like Tom Paine as “commos”has a McCarthyite..1950ies flavour to it..

    Tom Paine is more pungent than me and described your comments I think, as “horeshit” and he’s was right..and I don’t intend to debate with you again.it’s not worth the waste of my time…..so don’t address any comments to me again

  13. CTar1

    zoid

    [Will wait for the liberals on PB to dismiss.]

    Of course it couldn’t be right – Tones is going just great …

    :devil:

  14. MTBW

    BK

    Did you see the you tube video of Sister Cristina singing on the Italian version of the Voice?

    That is what the church should look like she is just lovely with no ego.

  15. Boerwar

    The two effective techniques to handle Bishop have been:

    (1) repeated points of order
    (2) refer to page x of the Standing Orders
    (3) open, mocking laughter from all, most of, those on the left

    IMHO, (3) works the very best. There is no defence for arrogant incompetents against mocking laughter.

  16. ruawake

    ALP ahead of L-NP on primary vote according to Morgan. 🙂

  17. MTBW

    rua

    Are you insinuating that Tony Chrissy Hockey Julie Bronwyn and Scott are not liked by the public?

    Every dog has his day we just have to wait long enough.

  18. BK

    [RE: Morgan,

    Will wait for the liberals on PB to dismiss.]
    Pyne: It is an illegitimate poll.

  19. Boerwar

    The Libs just got 53/47 in SA and Morgan comes up with 48/52?

    Was the timing different?

  20. BK

    Boerwar
    Federal voting intention vs State

  21. BH

    MTBW

    Very pleased that Pell looked abashed. I just hope he doesn’t get off scott free – he deserves to be lashed for trying to sweep it all under the carpet. So many lives have been ruined because they’ve been made to feel guiltier than the perpetrators.

    BTW Absolutely loved the Nun singing and dancing. Thanks for the link.

  22. poroti

    Paddy O

    [Buswell backlash?]
    Probably not. The Emperor on the other hand has been on a Break-a-promiseathon since the last state election. Then there is THE Abbott.

  23. BK

    MTBW
    Yes I saw the nun.

  24. WeWantPaul

    [ I just hope he doesn’t get off scott free – he deserves to be lashed for trying to sweep it all under the carpet. ]

    Just the kind of calm objective progressive analysis and insight one would look for …

  25. CTar1

    BH

    [I just hope he doesn’t get off scott free ]

    He’ll be in Rome and untouchable by the time any recommendations are made.

  26. Diogenes

    WWP

    [ You demonstrate a poverty of thought, vocabulary, insight and courtesy.

    And here I thought it was a very sound conclusion based on all the evidence.]

    I notice he left out “embittered”. That sort of gave the game away.

  27. Steve777

    Re Morgan poll – sample size is 2900, so fairly large. Margin of error would be about 1.9%.

    WA sample would only be about 300 (MOE about 5.8%) so it’s probably too small to draw conclusions about the coming Senate ‘by election’

  28. Thomas. Paine.

    I defend to the last the right of Brandis to be a total fucking moron.

  29. CTar1

    T. P

    And Erica.

  30. Thomas. Paine.

    obviously the election was a rogue poll!

  31. sprocket_

    Artie ‘the Bagman’ draining all oxygen from Abbott’s stunt and lie-a-thon.

    Just watched. CH10 news and it was all Artie this and Artie that. With numerous shots of Abbott saying what an honourable man Artie is.

  32. ruawake

    I defend to the last the right of Brandis to be a total fucking bigoted moron.

    Shame many groups in our society will not. Great move George.

  33. MTBW

    BH

    Could not agree with you more!

    And what a gutsy man that main witness is he never gave up.

  34. Boerwar

    Pell should put on a hair shirt, live off water and unleavened bread, and go live in a cave, begging the omnipotent for forgiveness.

  35. frednk

    I think Mr Carlton has hit the nail on the head; for someone who spends so much time vilifying others Andrew Bolt really is a sensitive little petal.

    [
    Mike Carlton ‏@MikeCarlton01 32m

    We have hit a new low when the Attorney General of Australia can back the bigotry of the loutish, boorish, self-pitying Andrew Bolt.
    ]

  36. silentmajority

    54.5-45.5

    I’ll take it!

    52-48 in WA?

    About time we woke up over here…

  37. guytaur

    Busy news day

    “@EssendonFC : Essendon Football Club wishes to advise the matter relating to James Hird has been referred to a Board meeting on Wednesday 26 March.”

  38. Diogenes

    I’m not sure Brandis is right anyway.

    ”People do have a right to be bigots, you know,”

    Do people really have the right to be bigots? Don’t we have anti-discrimination laws against that?

    Is he the worst AG ever?

  39. MTBW

    http://www.youtube.com/embed/18F_sIaimGM?rel=0

    Have a look at this I hope you will love it!

    It is a man and two dogs on stage.

  40. frednk

    Pretty good line:
    [
    Tom Palmer ‏@tomppalmer 6m

    The Liberal government will fight for the rights of bigots but not for assistance for orphans of soldiers #auspol
    ]

  41. zoidlord

    This attitude of Brandis & Co giving OK to Bigotry is why we have Violence in the streets, idiots.

  42. zoidlord

    But it’s also another slogan fest for liberals to take the heat of ICAC and Abbott Goverment, including the upcoming May Budget.

  43. CTar1

    Bw

    [live in a cave]

    He’ll be living in the little palace he built for himself in Rome. It has a decent restaurant, I’m told.

  44. guytaur

    Gvary Hunphries on the Drum not looking happy

  45. zoidlord

    Adam Bandt ‏@AdamBandt 3m

    Just read that ‘bigotry’ is trending in Australia. Today’s contribution from the Abbott government to political debate & the twitterverse.

  46. Boerwar

    CTaR1
    Cave canem.

  47. CTar1

    Bw

    Lots of dog catchers around there (well across the river).

  48. Boerwar

    I hear that the ACT ambulances are getting a bit of a workout carting APS heart attack victims from the workplace to hospital.

    Somehow or other neither of the major parties could give a rat’s arse.

  49. Diogenes

    So Artie knew for 12 months that he was in a dodgy company.

    Bongo says the company corruption allegations are a nice counterbalance to the union corruption allegations.

  50. ruawake

    Fire reported on inbound QANTASLINK aircraft to Brisbane Airport Domestic Terminal

  51. poroti

    MTBW

    Good stuff. The “man” is actually a wee lassie. As the dog is a border collie it probably trained the owner how to dance 🙂 They’re my fave dog.

  52. MTBW

    poroti

    I was wrong on that when I saw she had make up on.

    My Mum passed away in August and since her first dance with Dad who passed in 1981 we chose Glenn Millers “In the Mood” for the end of the service.

    We had all that music in our house when we were kids. Gets your feet tapping!

  53. imacca

    [ Buswell Backlash?? ]

    Lol! I was thinking today that the Liberal most pleased to have Uncle Arties troubles front and center must be our Troy.

    🙂

    2909 for a sample size seems pretty large isn’t it??

    I find it difficult to believe the 52/48 result to the ALP in W.A. but what the fwark. 🙂 We suffer through the bad polls so we should revel in the good ones i reckon. 🙂

    And it does set a bit of a mood going into April 5th which is good for those of us on the booths anyway. Always good to give the sweet yung blonde thangs in the tight blue shirts something to worry about.

  54. confessions

    [Is he the worst AG ever?]

    I can’t think of any worse predecessor.

  55. jeffemu

    but he does have the biggest book shelves Confessions

  56. BK

    jeffemu
    You know what they say. Big bookcase – small . . .

  57. poroti

    MTBW

    In the Mood is way outside all my normal music tastes but for some reason I have always loved it. Certainly not on my parent’s play list. There is just something about it that, as you say , “gets your feet tapping”.

  58. confessions

    In fact there are so many worst evers with this govt:

    Worst ever Prime Minister
    Worst ever Defence Minister
    Worst ever Immigration Minister
    Worst ever Environment Minister
    Worst ever Speaker

    And the promise of much worse yet to come.

  59. confessions

    jeffemu:

    For a man supposedly so widely-read, he is awfully lacking in perception.

  60. citizen

    Ch7 6pm news had george Pell blaming those above and below him for the response to paedophile priests.

    He blamed the Vatican because he said they treated all complaints as coming from enemies of the church.

    He blamed his advisers for giving him bad advice.

    Thus it’s the fault of everyone else!

  61. BK

    citizen
    Sounds just like the Libs and the SA election outcome.

  62. Steven Grant Haby

    Citizen @ 1126

    Except His Eminence of course.

    He is a disgrace.

  63. confessions

    [Thus it’s the fault of everyone else!]

    The typical coward’s response.

    He should be booted out of the church. What a disgrace he is.

  64. lizzie

    Old Cardinals never die, they turn from water to whine.

  65. MTBW

    poroti

    Me too! Brings back memories of jiving in the lounge room with my Mum and Dad:lol:

  66. MTBW

    Pell is a disgrace – no wonder the Catholic Churches are nearly empty.

    Off to Rome for Pell don’t let the door hit you in the ar*e on the way out!

  67. zoidlord

    GhostWhoVotes ‏@GhostWhoVotes 27m

    #Morgan Poll 2 Party Preferred: L/NP 45.5 (-1) ALP 54.5 (+1) #auspol

    GhostWhoVotes ‏@GhostWhoVotes 26m

    #Morgan Poll Primary Votes: L/NP 38 (-1.5) ALP 38.5 (+1.5) GRN 11 (-1) PUP 4.5 (+0.5) #auspol

    GhostWhoVotes ‏@GhostWhoVotes 11m

    #Morgan Poll WA Federal 2 Party Preferred: L/NP 48 (-6.5) ALP 52 (+6.5) #auspol

  68. imacca

    [ In the Mood is way outside all my normal music tastes ]

    Was the only thing my Dad could actually play on the piano. Strictly a muscle memory thing i reckon.

    I have always liked Boogie Woogie Bugle Boy. 🙂

  69. ruawake

    Seems Hartcher’s arse is on fire.

    [The inquiry has heard Mr Obeid predicted a corruption complaint would be made against her by Liberal MP Chris Hartcher.

    An anonymous complaint was made to ICAC, and the lawyer for Mr Hartcher’s former adviser Tim Koelma said on Friday that Mr Koelma was “the source” of the letter.]

    Or will he blame it all on his servant?

  70. MTBW

    zoid

    That last figure is very telling.

    So where has the “sea of blue” gone to?

  71. Just Me

    1130
    lizzie

    🙂

  72. zoidlord

    @MTBW/1136

    In the Sea, where it belongs.

  73. MTBW

    imacca

    [I have always liked Boogie Woogie Bugle Boy.]

    Me to!

  74. imacca

    Hey William! Surely this Morgan is far enough “out there” it deserves a post of its own?? 🙂

  75. WeWantPaul

    [The typical coward’s response.

    He should be booted out of the church. What a disgrace he is.
    ]

    I’m assuming we have given up on trying to understand institutional responses with a view to ensuring more appropriate responses in the future and just on a witch hunt. Hopefully the RC isn’t going down this kind of path because it will not help future victims.

  76. zoidlord

    @imacca/1140

    I think we are due for a Newspoll… As per Williams comments last night.

  77. BK

    Yes, there will be wall to wall coverage of the Morgan poll in tomorrow’s media.

  78. BK

    Yes, there will be wall to wall coverage of the Morgan poll in tomorrow’s media.

  79. Just Me

    [Morgan Poll WA Federal 2 Party Preferred: L/NP 48 (-6.5) ALP 52 (+6.5)

    That last figure is very telling.]

    No margin-of-error escape clause there for the Tories.

  80. milenko

    The dear Cardinal gets another chance to redeem himself on Wednesday with another Guest appearance.

    Gail Furness ( Council assisting ) & Justice Peter McClellan Commissioner were slow,measured, polite & relentless ALL day.

    In particular get the transcript where McClellan questions Pell on ” morality ” & the law, it was game set & match!

  81. poroti

    imacca

    Would have sounded pretty good on the piano.The bugle boy has that same “energy”.
    A recent reminder of music from back then.

    [Vera Lynn, 97, who kept morale high during World War II releases new album ]
    http://www.news.com.au/entertainment/music/vera-lynn-97-who-kept-morale-high-during-world-war-ii-releases-new-album/story-e6frfn09-1226860716114

  82. mari

    GENERAL AND FINAL NOTICE

    THe Midnorth Coast PBers get together is on this Friday at Port Macquarie at about midday. Any one visiting in area very welcome as anyone who we havn’t contacted Please ask for my email address. Beds can be provided I am told

  83. MTBW

    milenko

    [Gail Furness ( Council assisting ) & Justice Peter McClellan Commissioner were slow,measured, polite & relentless ALL day.]

    And Pell will be getting more uncomfortable every day!

    You have to admire the diligence of John Ellis he was shoved around and around but he followed through.

    Taking on the RC Church would be made very very difficult for him.

    My family are part of the congregation who don’t go to Mass anymore.

  84. milenko

    wewantpaul@1141

    The RC is above all concerned about victims past , present & future.
    Justice Peter McClellan has been incredibly sympathetic to the victims & time and again he questioned Pell on the impact of abuse & the “power structure ” that perpetuated & enabled it.
    He questioned Pell on what should happen to support ” future victims ”

    Pell’s fall back was always ” it’s not just the Church other institutions at fault also”…. the man is bereft of any human feelings… perfect choice for Cardinal .. the “Church ” come FIRST & SECOND … the victims / parishioner LAST

  85. confessions

    [Hopefully the RC isn’t going down this kind of path because it will not help future victims.]

    That you are confident there will be future victims after all this shit says it all about why Pell needs to go.

  86. zoidlord

    Possum Comitatus ‏@Pollytics 6m

    Yeah, that DoctorContractFacts seems to be going well. Spinborg thinks the public is as silly as his backbench pic.twitter.com/PpWmpIXmdt

  87. Leroy Lynch

    I checked the TPP as per 2013 preferences, still a good one for the ALP at 53.5 – 46.5

    You can find that chart on page 4 of the PDF version.

    http://www.roymorgan.com/~/media/Files/Findings%20PDF/2014/March/5504-Fed-Vote-Mar-24-2014.pdf

    I rechecked how Kevin regards & weights the polls

    He goes by last election prefs, and for Roy Morgan multi-mode polls adds +1 to the Coaltion as a House Effect Correction, as it seems to lean ALP vs other polls.

    So by that, versus a regular phone poll it works out to TPP 52.5 ALP – 47.5 L/NP

    Still pretty good. As I recall William’s weighting on Roy Morgan is similar.

    http://kevinbonham.blogspot.com.au/2013/08/a-field-guide-to-australian-opinion.html

    http://kevinbonham.blogspot.com.au/2013/12/federal-2pp-aggregate-methods-44th.html

  88. BK

    milenko
    It has been great to watch McLellan work. So measured and effective. A most impressive man who obviously has benn considerably moved by yhe many victim interviews they have conducted.

  89. Greensborough Growler

    BW,

    The SA election was a State election. This poll is a Federal poll.

    Shows the voters distinguish between Federal and State.

    The Morgan is either a rogue or a harbinger of things to come polling wise.

    Fastend your seat belts Libs. You could be in for a bumpy ride.

  90. imacca

    [ I think we are due for a Newspoll… As per Williams comments last night. ]

    Thanks zoid.

    Will be hilarious if Newspoll moves in the same direction, even if be not quite as much.

  91. confessions

    [Pell’s fall back was always ” it’s not just the Church other institutions at fault also”…. the man is bereft of any human feelings… perfect choice for Cardinal .. the “Church ” come FIRST & SECOND … the victims / parishioner LAST]

    This is exactly what I was saying, only expressed way more articulately.

  92. Socrates

    I can only agree with others on their view of the highly unethical George Pell.

    Curious also that the vatican would appoint a man with such an allegedly faulty memory to run its finances. Now where did i put those hidden billions? I’m sure George’s memory will recover when he starts his new role. It will be miraculous. Perhaps they will beatify his defense counsel?

  93. milenko

    MTBW @1150

    Today is the first time I have watched the RC, feel deeply for Ellis, the Church attempted to destroy him, I think this was exposed in Pell’s homophobic evidence today.

    During the RC it was stated that the “abuse” of Ellis continued after the age of consent ,the implication from Pell being it was consensual … the low life.

    Pell failed to understand the impact 10 YEARS of abuse could have on anyone, the impact on Ellis must have been horrendous, one hopes he survives.

  94. imacca

    [ Shows the voters distinguish between Federal and State. ]

    I think thats right, but it wont surprise me if there is a “state effect” comes into play on April 5th here. Small though, and probably not enough to give the fibs anything less than 3 Senators.

    Bliss would be the W.A. count being finished and the result being 4 left / 2 right in W.A. Be like winning Lotto 🙂 and probably about as much chance. 🙁

  95. psyclaw

    It’s quite strange that the writer of #1089 also wrote #1073.

    The rule proclaimed in the latter certainly was not operative in the former….. PMSL.

  96. WeWantPaul

    [That you are confident there will be future victims after all this shit says it all about why Pell needs to go.
    ]

    I would be very surprised if we could stop entirely this type of crime. I will wait for the RC’s findings before demanding he be whipped or sacked. Then I want look and sound like a crazy when I do it.

  97. ruawake

    The look over there – wreckage, stunt of last week was aimed at Newspoll, doubt it will have worked.

    Will this be the month the Liberal – National Party coalition realise they are the Government? Probably not. 🙁

  98. crikey whitey

    daretotread
    Posted Monday, March 24, 2014 at 2:46 pm | Permalink

    ‘Look I KNOW this seems superficial, but I made an immediate judgement when I saw SA opposition leader Murray that he could not win. He has Snake eyes. Weatherill has an open honest face. Unfair but it still IS’

    I wondered many times prior to the election how anyone could vote against Weatherill. Pretty straight up and honest face. Even has policies.

    A recent newcomer to Australia asked me last week who won the election. The fair one or the one with the sneaky face?

    DTT, it doesn’t say much for Marshall that you also got his name wrong. Laughs.

  99. Greensborough Growler

    milenko,

    So it is your contention that the Church turned him in to a homosexual?

    That doesn’t sit comfortably with all the nature versus society arguments that are usually trotted out.

  100. Greensborough Growler

    ru,

    Hockey will have his Budget in May to restore the Government’s fortunes.

  101. Socrates

    Another point on Pell’s defense of the catholic church’s actions (under his orders). His explanation of the aggressive legal defense was that it was assumed that complainants were usually “enemies” of the church. So what?? If a person is opposed to the catholic church, but clearly abused by it, are they entitled to no assistance or compensation? The issue should be decided on the truth of the allegations, not whether the claimant is a friend or enemy of the offender. By this logic anyone not a “friend” of the church is entitled to nothing. So much for loving thy enemies.

    There was a time when churches called for a higher standard of moral behavior than the required minima in a society. As George Pell demonstrates, those days are long gone. I wonder how long before he drops the forgetful old man routine?

  102. milenko

    Greensborough

    Sorry no, not suggesting Ellis is homosexual at all, I think in instances like this notions of choice or leanings or anything else are irrelevant.

    Ellis is to be credited with surviving the abuse metered out by the Church.. individuals & institution ( represented by Pell ).
    His humanity has survived through it all.

  103. Socrates

    Before I go there were some court room proceedings that were cause for clebration. A judge in WA has given up any hope of being made a High Court justice by the Abbott government in order to protect a basic foundation of informed democracy:
    [Western Australia’s Supreme Court has ordered Gina Rinehart’s company, Hancock Prospecting, to pay the costs incurred by a Fairfax journalist in a legal battle over sources.]
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-03-15/rinehart-ordered-to-pay-journalist27s-costs/5323084

    Rinehart’s attempt to force Fairfax journalists to reveal their sources was dismissed as an abuse of process. Have a pleasant evening.

  104. poroti

    Feck off BoF. Feck off Seppo style shite.

    [O’Farrell backs school fingerprinting

    NSW Premier Barry O’Farrell has backed the right of schools to use fingerprint scanners to track whether kids are skipping class.]

    http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/22098532/ofarrell-backs-school-fingerprinting/

  105. zoidlord

    @poroti/1171

    How will fingerprinting going to fix skipping classes?

    The Liberals want to control the kids as much as the Economy.

  106. Greensborough Growler

    milenko,

    So why the point of your colourful “homophobic” evidence jibe. I presume Pell gave evidence like anyone else in the witness box. He answered questions he was asked.

  107. ruawake

    [Hockey will have his Budget in May to restore the Government’s fortunes.]

    Well this is a bizarre comment, Hockey is like the schoolboy who knows his homework is due, but he is yet to sit down and actually do it.

    Hockey knows he has to hand down a mildly stimulating Budget, yet his rhetoric says he has to hand down a savage cuts budget.

    He is already being called a liar or a fool by the economics press, the voters will follow.

  108. zoidlord

    @GG/1167

    What budget? it’s going to be a disaster.

  109. Steve777

    Of course Brandis defends the right of people to be bigots. The Coalition needs the votes of the Alf Garnett’s of this country in addition to those of the wealthy, traditional conservatives and those who see their interests aligned with those of big business, in order to get across the line come election day.

    I might pay attention to his crap about free speech when he announces a project to wind back the defamation laws. I’m not expecting that any time soon. So Aborigines, people with a religion other than mainstream Christianity, gays and so forth need to toughen up, but the stupid and venal among the rich and powerful are delicate flowers who need protection.

  110. Greensborough Growler

    ru,

    Irony my dear fellow.

    If the Libs are relying on Hockey, then the ship has sunk.

  111. ruawake

    [Irony my dear fellow.]

    Whatever. 😛

  112. ruawake

    Is it OK if I call Brandis old, fat, white, bald and 4eyed?

  113. poroti

    confessions

    Oh please please please let it be, The last couple of times rain has bothered to fall it has stuck strictly to the bloody north of the river places.

  114. Greensborough Growler

    steve77,

    Plenty of people being religious bigots on PB today. Very few of them vote Liberal.

    I suppose the nearest comparison to old Alf is the John Pilgers.

  115. milenko

    Greensborough

    My memory is not totally clear ( & transcript not up yet ), first Pell virtually never gave an unqualified answer to questions yet was always 110% clear in his recollection when blaming “Others”

    The evidence of post age of consent was contained in the question, Pell’s answer conflated pre & post abuse in his answer I believe to imply some form of mitigating circumstance to justify actions leading up to court case .

  116. ruawake

    GG

    Lurve the AFR line

    [The pollsters have thrown up a wide range of two-party preferred results in the past few weeks but all point to the Coalition receiving the worst post-election polling of any new government for 40 years.]

  117. Greensborough Growler

    milenko,

    So, you agree your comments have taken Pell out of context and you have overlayed your own personal prejudices in interpreting same?

  118. confessions

    [Is it OK if I call Brandis old, fat, white, bald and 4eyed?]

    It really was an astonishing thing for an AG to say.

    [Prime Minister Tony Abbott told parliament it was the nature of free speech that sometimes people would not like what was written or said.

    The government was determined to ensure that Australia remained a free and fair and tolerant society where bigotry and racism had no place.

    But it also wanted it to be a nation where freedom of speech was enjoyed.

    “And sometimes free speech will be speech which upsets people, which offends people.”]

    It’s also curious that the so-called ‘champions’ of free speech are invariably the first to use the legal industry in order to shut down criticisms of them by their opponents.

  119. sohar

    It is not religious bigotry to condemn people (church officials or not) that carry out and/or cover up abuse against children.

  120. confessions

    poroti:

    I’m hanging out for rain here. No sign of it this week though.

  121. Greensborough Growler

    sohar,

    I see you have given yourself a pass.

  122. milenko

    Greensborough
    No

  123. deblonay

    What happens when a govt takes on Twitter and the social media
    __________________________
    In Turkey an increasingly unpopular govt blames Twitter(and amongst others,…The CIA) for his problems…and wishes too that he hadn’t got involved in the war in Syria)
    see …The War on…Twitter

    http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2014/03/erdogan-twitter-mission-impossible-media.html?utm_so

  124. Edwina StJohn

    GG, Cardinal Pell is indefensible Whatever way you choose to spin it. That’s got nothing to do with your Catholicism it’s just a fact.

    He fulfilled a task with an excellent financial outcome for Rome, ie he settled for as little as 20k claims which were probably worth up to a million dollars each. He s probably saved Rome about 500million dollars through his towards healing protocol.

    If he had any decency he’d agree to void the settlement deeds for the victims who were sodomised, etc etc by the Church priests etc. Of course won’t.

    Promotion to Rome for a job well done with some weasel words on the way out. An absolute appalling disgrace. You really should examine your conscience as a Catholic and ask yourself is this acceptable of Peter’s church?

  125. Diogenes

    Pell looked like he’d taken some tips from Rupert Murdoch on how to answer questions at an inquiry.

  126. deblonay

    Y think all religious groups/./..like political parties…which in some ways they are …should be open to any comments…as long as the comments don’t incite violence

  127. poroti

    confessions

    Looking at the map it looks like I can’t miss getting rain. But after so long I’ll believe it when I hear it 🙂

  128. Greensborough Growler

    ESJ,

    It’s only words.
    And words are all you have
    To take my love away………

  129. milenko

    Greensborough

    Pell & the RC

    If you have time I suggest you watch the RC, the 20 second TV grabs totally miss the import of what is happening.
    This is nothing to do with politics ( unless you choose to make it so ).

    I defy anyone to watch Pell for 30 minutes & still be able to support him.
    The side steps, lying , halve truths are relentless… but transparent.

    The exasperation of the Commission is evident ( though incredibly restrained )

  130. Edwina StJohn

    No actually GG it’s rape, sodomy and assorted abuse of innocent children with bishops aggressively suppressing claims by the damaged victims decades later.

  131. deblonay

    I read Pilger often in many journals and I can’t recall him having much to say on the churches.

    ..but then who needs too as they are condemned in many cases out of the mouths of their leaders ,of which Pell is surely the worst example
    He must be the most hated man in modern Australian history…even ahead of Abbott..which says something

    Happily once he is settled in Rome we may hear little of him …though one fears for the Pope’s millions if he still has such a bad memory !

  132. Diogenes

    Could the Essendon board really call Tania Hird to question her?

    Wouldn’t she just repeat her accusations and force them to take a position on something they presumably don’t want to know about?

  133. citizen

    [zoidlord
    Posted Monday, March 24, 2014 at 6:52 pm | PERMALINK
    Morgan Polling:

    http://m.afr.com/p/national/labor_storms_ahead_in_latest_poll_D7r8VHuWmSwOVyfzvyequL

    http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/22135237/roy-morgan-result-excludes-cannabis-party/
    ]

    The second link is actually to Morgan’s NZ polling where the cannabis party wants be listed separately instead of under “others”.

    Incidentally the latest Morgan NZ says National 45.5, Labour 31.5, Green 14, NZ First 3.5, Maori 2, Mana under 0.5, ACT NZ 0.5, United Future 0.5, Conservative 1.5, Internet under 0.5, Others 1.

    Does anyone know what this suggests for the election in September?

  134. confessions

    Well said, ESJ.

  135. confessions

    poroti:

    I’ve got clouds building here to the north and to the west, but the forecast doesn’t give much hope.

    I hope you get some rain tonight. I can’t believe how dry this summer has been.

  136. adam abdool

    7.30 report

    AS – what an indictment against this government. And they will get away with it. I hope that when Labor get into power we have a RC into this.

  137. briefly

    http://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2014/03/china-flash-pmi-chart-pack/

    [It’s becoming very clear that without renewed stimulus, the Chinese economy will slow much further than the desired 7%]

    The external economic environment is losing vitality.

  138. Greensborough Growler

    ESJ,

    I’m so pleased to see you so passionate and committed to a political cause. Perhaps another catharsis is sweeping over you. I hope to see you waving your tambourine at the next victims meeting.

    It makes a change from the dreary cynic you usually have on display.

  139. Fran Barlow

    An interesting analysis of the “Indignados” movement and the growing marginalisation of the governing parties in Spain, over at Left-Flank …

    http://left-flank.org/2014/03/24/whatever-happened-indignados-2-regime-crisis-uprisings/

  140. ruawake

    [Does anyone know what this suggests for the election in September?]

    There was an article somewhere today stating the Hemp party could sneak in in WA. Their chances were improved by pointing out the Greens did not follow through on an agreement for preferences.

    Norty Greens.

  141. deblonay

    1208 I think his catharis is sweeping over him/her as he tries to see if he is male or female…remember that story..even for him…it’s not lot hard to work out !

  142. Edwina StJohn

    GG, am i cynical – yes,guilty as charged, but I can still see injustice and abuse of the weak for what it is.

    If you want to trivialise it by your tart references to tambourines go right ahead.

  143. deblonay

    Domus Hotel in Rome
    ___________________

    http://www.domusaustralia.org/

    Pell’s crowning achievement,,,,it looks great too,,in a splendid old building and not too costly

    but then Pell’s father was a publican in Ballarat
    (I think I like Rome better..and it’s warmer than Ballarat too )

  144. Greensborough Growler

    Diogs,

    Maybe the Hirds want out and want their pay out too. This Essendon Susso is as good as it gets.

  145. milenko

    ESJ

    From the little I have read on Francis… I doubt Pell is being rewarded for services rendered in relation to Towards Healing.
    More likely they will have Pell look after the photo copier in Rome.

  146. Greensborough Growler

    ESJ,

    Mate, if maraccas are more your style, fill your boots.

  147. zoidlord

    @Briefly/1207

    Also Japans tax increase is due soon, there’s fears of slump in Consumer spending & In-addition export trade deficits.

    http://ajw.asahi.com/article/economy/business/AJ201403240065

  148. Edwina StJohn

    Milenko – its not the Pope , its the culture and values of the organisation that supports the perps and banishes the victims.

  149. Steven Grant Haby

    Speaking with friends who are active in the Catholic Church it is widely known that Pell is disliked and mistrusted and considered to be the antithesis of arrogance and the worst of the worst in terms of excesses within the Church. The sooner he gets shunted to Rome and out of harms way the better. Pope Francis will keep a very close eye on him and his ‘ways’ … a liability in every way

  150. Steven Grant Haby

    As in his ‘ways’ = deny, delay, delay and deny etc and so forth. I hate to see what might be eventually be revealed under his watch.

  151. zoidlord

    Labor was right in banning Huawei:

    http://www.cso.com.au/article/541176/huawei_nbn_happened_three_years_after_it_hacked_by_nsa/

    “The networking giant was hacked by the NSA as part of “Shotgiant”, an operation that by 2009 had given the agency more information on the company than it knew what to do with, according to a report by Der Spiegel that’s based on documents from former NSA contractor Edward Snowden.”

    “The attack on Huawei was part of Shotgiant’s larger ambition to target China’s top brass in politics, finance and technology industries. “

  152. ruawake

    If you had to rely on News Ltd you would never have heard this.

    [An industry expert has told the royal commission into the Rudd government’s home insulation scheme the program should not have been terminated.

    Technical consultant James Fricker advised the federal Environment Department on home insulation for the national roll-out of the scheme five years ago.

    An inquiry in Brisbane is examining whether the Labor government and its staff failed to heed safety warnings before four workers died on the job in 2009 and 2010.

    In a written statement tendered at today’s hearing, Mr Fricker said the early termination of the program was unwarranted as “teething problems, training, insulation sourcing, and safety issues, were largely overcome”.

    “The stimulus was achieving most of its goals with positive results, and most insulation companies were now geared up for rapid installations over the remainder of the two-year period,” he said.

    Mr Fricker also advised departmental staff involved in the scheme’s design on the effectiveness of various insulation materials.

    He said he supported the use of foil, but he knew the use of metal staples with foil could be deadly.]

  153. confessions

    [Speaking with friends who are active in the Catholic Church it is widely known that Pell is disliked and mistrusted and considered to be the antithesis of arrogance ]

    They think Pell is humble?! 😮

    Fark, things are worse in the church than I thought! Pell is the absolute embodiment of arrogance, it’s written all over everything he says and does.

  154. milenko

    ESJ

    I don’t support any religion, just there may be hope that Francis is a decent human being genuinely trying to clean up the institution that is the Church.

    Maybe the Pope believes in keeping his ( the Churches) “enemies ” close to him .. very close.
    I have read that Pell supported elevation of Francis.

  155. don

    Steven Grant Haby@1219

    Speaking with friends who are active in the Catholic Church it is widely known that Pell is disliked and mistrusted and considered to be the antithesis of arrogance and the worst of the worst in terms of excesses within the Church. The sooner he gets shunted to Rome and out of harms way the better. Pope Francis will keep a very close eye on him and his ‘ways’ … a liability in every way

    Antithesis = direct opposite.

    Is that what you meant?

  156. psyclaw

    Confessions :#1233

    I suspect he means the epitome of arrogance. The context suggests so.

  157. Bushfire Bill

    [Curious also that the vatican would appoint a man with such an allegedly faulty memory to run its finances.]

    Pell has clearly been ordered to cave on the Abuse question.

    He seems to have faltered just a little today, but will be aware that the Pope is watching.

    The new job is his penance, strange as that may seem. He’s in charge of Vatican finances. And most likely Vatican finances will be paying the bills for the poor bastards who trusted their church.

  158. citizen

    [deblonay
    Posted Monday, March 24, 2014 at 8:09 pm | PERMALINK
    Domus Hotel in Rome
    ___________________

    http://www.domusaustralia.org/

    Pell’s crowning achievement,,,,it looks great too,,in a splendid old building and not too costly]

    Actually it looks like quite a good place to stay. Non-RCs accepted, a central location and a “hearty Aussie breakfast” included in the tariff. A real little kangaroo valley.

    I wonder if Pell’s counterparts in other countries have set up similar accommodation for expats visiting Rome?

  159. poroti

    don

    Perhaps “apotheosis” is a better word ?

  160. cud chewer

    Does Pell get replaced here?

  161. confessions

    psyclaw:

    Maybe. It’s hard to tell with catholics here pitching a fit about criticism of Pell.

  162. poroti

    Bushfire Bill

    I had a similar thought. The pope appointing a guy who did so much to say “No” appointed to a position where he will have to sign so many cheques that say “Yes” .

  163. ruawake

    [Does Pell get replaced here?]

    Yep the Church will need a new Primate.

  164. don

    poroti@1229

    don

    Perhaps “apotheosis” is a better word ?

    I prefer psyclaw’s word – epitome.

    But apotheosis would have worked much better than antithesis.

  165. WeWantPaul

    Essendon have got off really lightly and their current don’t rock the boat attitude shows they know it. Seems they picked the wrong man.

    But in great news how is west coasts wellingham or whatever he is called getting of with a wrist slap for his trip last evening – gold!

  166. frednk

    GG

    There are times when the best thing you can do to support the church is shut up. Unfortunatly Edwina StJohm has hit the nail on the head. Pell has to defend the idefensible; and the churches actions, you don’t.

  167. Puff, the Magic Dragon.

    rua,
    [Yep the Church will need a new Primate.]
    There is a Primate in Canberra who once wanted to be a priest, maybe he would like to switch?

  168. WeWantPaul

    [There are times when the best thing you can do to support the church is shut up. Unfortunatly Edwina StJohm has hit the nail on the head. Pell has to defend the idefensible; and the churches actions, you don’t.
    ]

    And the RC needs to consider in an intelligent and thoughtful way all the evidence of the complex interactions of legal, institutional and personal relationships without the benefit of the handy self righteous but largely ignorant ‘execute them now’ world view.

  169. mikehilliard

    I heard the term “environmental depression” used today. Apparently this results from reading or viewing any report of the Coalitions environmental agenda.

  170. poroti

    [Yep the Church will need a new Primate.]

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEep67akIn4

  171. frednk

    [
    WeWantPaul
    Posted Monday, March 24, 2014 at 8:40 pm | Permalink

    …..

    And the RC needs to consider in an intelligent and thoughtful way all the evidence of the complex interactions of legal, institutional and personal relationships without the benefit of the handy self righteous but largely ignorant ‘execute them now’ world view.
    ]
    Given what has happened and the lives destroyed I would have thought the anger was pretty easy to understand.

  172. ruawake

    The RC into institutional sexual abuse should mainly be about revealing the truth. We know it happened, we need to stop it ever happening again.

    The duty of care can no longer be ignored.

  173. deblonay

    Citizen 1228 e Domus Autralia in Rome
    _____________

    No I rather gather from several comments I have read that it is unique,,and very well run??

    In fairness to Pell…and who wants that.???..I suspect that he is a fairly capable administrator,and may be the Papal choice for a clean out of the Vatican’s finances and the working of the notorious
    Vatican Bank..of.which it was said that Benedict,the last Pope was at loss to understand it workings despite his wish for reforms

    Pell …for all his sins…doesn’t strike me as corrupt and hemay be free of the villians in the Vatican who are the target of the current Pope and his hopes for honest reforms

  174. Steve777

    For what it’s worth, I think that Cardinal Pell is much better suited to the role of technocrat / bureaucrat than he is to pastoral duties.

  175. WeWantPaul

    [Given what has happened and the lives destroyed I would have thought the anger was pretty easy to understand.]

    Yeah I understand the anger from personal experience. Yeah the anger is easy to understand but it doesn’t make the things angry people say any less stupid. And fwiw my view is a lot of people are saying stupid things based on prejudice rather than hate borne in personal experience – but it doesn’t matter either way they are still stupid things to say.

  176. psyclaw

    Interesting to hear Pyne, Marshall, Xenephon and others whinging about Mr Brock’s decision to support JWeatherill.

    Whatever the specifics of the system, there will always be mathematical anomalies.

    The fact is though, that the SA electoral system is based on 47 electorates electing 47 MPs, the majority vote of whom will determine the government/premier.

    Party X could have 100% of voters in 23 electorates with the Party Y gaining 50.1% of the vote in 24 electorates.

    This would roughly mean that X gaining nearly 75% of the total vote yet not winning the majority of seats. Such would be a mathematical anomaly.

    As some pseph pointed out last week, there are 10 or so rural seats which always elect a conservo by a very large majority ….. and all those votes in excess of 51% are wasted as far as contributing to the number of conservo MPs elected.

    The only remedy would be to have more such rural electorates by cutting these ones in half and having only half the current number of electors in each electorate. This begs three comments:

    1) the electoral rules in SA require 23k voters in each electorate, plus or minus 10%. (approx figures)

    2) this would value those rural votes as 2x the value of voters in other electorates

    3) such a remedy would be replicating Joe’s “scheme” in Queensland for a couple of decades 30 years back, and that was widely seen as an unfair arrangement.

    IMHO the current SA system of tweaking the electorates every 4 years is by far the lesser of 2 evils

  177. poroti

    Did I mention that after beating Ingurland the K1Wi’s have the Saffas 32-2 after 5 overs in the T-20 ?

  178. davidwh

    The answer in SA may be that the Libs need to work harder to win metro seats.

  179. Greensborough Growler

    frednk,

    Let me put it in language you might understand.

    I have opinions and am not afraid to use them.

    Get used to it!

  180. poroti

    AB de Villiers……..Gorn 42-3 after 6.4

  181. confessions

    [For what it’s worth, I think that Cardinal Pell is much better suited to the role of technocrat / bureaucrat than he is to pastoral duties.]

    Definitely. He has appeared to approach this whole RC from a position of detached managerialist fixer, than someone more concerned with the welfare of those within the church’s care.

    I find the whole thing appalling given he has felt free to offer morals advice to Australians on any number of subjects in the past.

  182. Frodo Baggins

    Bill Shorten never pulls off sincerity effectively.

    He’s about as convincing as a can of snakes

  183. davidwh

    Bill Sssssssssshorten?

  184. confessions

    Plibersek releases this video of Brandis and his silly comments, and Abbott’s equally vacuous response in QT.
    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=676284122432383&set=vb.166020776792056&type=2&theater

  185. zoidlord

    @Frodo/1252

    The real snakes are the libs for misleading voters to gain Parliament.

  186. poroti

    Frodo Baggins

    [
    Bill Shorten never pulls off sincerity effectively.]
    I know, so utterly unlike the incandescent sincerity that Abbott has shown his whole life. Just ask his girlfriend.

  187. deblonay

    Re former Cardinal/Arch-Bishops of Sydney
    _________________________
    just after WW2,Arch-Bish Gilroy of Sydney was made the first Australian Cardinal..and all such since then have been Cardinals
    The Gilroy appointment was to have a major effect on the split in the ASLP in the mid-I950ies

    Whereas in Melbourne the ageing Arch-B Mannix..a most poltical prelate of Irish descent…became in his dotage the virtual prisoner of a rising Santamaria…in Sydney Gilroy would not have a bar of Santamaria ,or his his”Movement” and doors were closed to him
    The result was that when the ALP split in Victoria…and the Santamaria-soon to be DLP… people were expelled from the party…no such event occured in Sydney..where the right-wing of the ALP kept Santamaria at arms length..with the “blessing” of Gilroy

    In Melbourne Santamaria remained a force even after the split with the DLP and operated actually inside Mannix residence at “Raheen”…a splendid home bought for Mannix by the criminal John Wren(see “Power without Glory”)

    Indeed as Mannix lay dying…Arthur Calwell then LOTO went to see the old man…whom he had know for a lifetime,and there was a confrontation at the door with Santmaria..which Calwell won and entered the house and spoke with Mannix on his deathbed..what drama!!!

    Within days of Mannix death,the new Arch-Bishop Simmons…never a lover of Santamaria,had kicked him out along with a coterie of his supporters,some priests who were sent back to parish works,and the Movement was virtually closed down…having milked great sums of Church money for the DLP in it’s early stages

    Sadly some of their ilk are back in the ALP in many places

  188. frednk

    [
    Greensborough Growler
    Posted Monday, March 24, 2014 at 9:00 pm | Permalink

    frednk,

    Let me put it in language you might understand.

    I have opinions and am not afraid to use them.

    Get used to it!
    ]
    Brandis informed us today it’s ok to be a bigot; it’s my view it’s ok for you to open yourself to ridicule. Why be surprised that people take you up on the offer?

  189. deblonay

    error post 1257,… the line” the split in the ASLP ” should of course read…”the split in the ALP”

  190. frednk

    [
    Frodo Baggins
    Posted Monday, March 24, 2014 at 9:04 pm | Permalink

    Bill Shorten never pulls off sincerity effectively.

    He’s about as convincing as a can of snakes
    ]
    Given todays Morgan the quesitons to ask, is it because of Shorten’s ability or Abbott’s inability?

    Clearly you voting that Abbott is a total fool and a drovers dog could make him look thus.

  191. Acerbic Conehead

    Frodo Baggins,

    [Bill Shorten never pulls off sincerity effectively.

    He’s about as convincing as a can of snakes]

    Stop having a hissy fit.

  192. don

    frednk@1258


    Brandis informed us today it’s ok to be a bigot; it’s my view it’s ok for you to open yourself to ridicule. Why be surprised that people take you up on the offer?

    Perfect!

    👿

  193. Acerbic Conehead

    davidwh,

    [Bill Sssssssssshorten?]

    lol.

  194. Greensborough Growler

    frednk,

    Being ridiculed by self serving bigots as they serve up their daily measure of tripe is not something I need get overly concerned about.

  195. poroti

    Acerbic Conehead

    [Stop having a hissy fit.]

    After Pyne’s effort today it is more a “Prissy fit”

  196. Socrates

    Confessions
    [Definitely. He has appeared to approach this whole RC from a position of detached managerialist fixer, than someone more concerned with the welfare of those within the church’s care.

    I find the whole thing appalling given he has felt free to offer morals advice to Australians on any number of subjects in the past.]
    In my experience this pattern of thinking is typical of a high proportion of senior catholic clergy in managerial roles. They leave the nice ones running parishes. The internal politics of the catholic church is pretty ugly. Only the ruthless and hard get to the top. I saw some of it in two different dioceses for several years before that and a few other disillusioning experiences started me on the path to becoming an atheist. The monsignors and above are obsessed with keeping the show on the road and collection revenue rolling in. That end justifies almost any means, including destroying individual persons. They do it for “god”, and coincidentally get to enjoy a lot of prestige, power and live in usually a very nice bishop’s house, with housekeeping and meals thrown in.

    GG

    My objections to Pell are separate and additional to any concerns I have with the nature of the catholic church. Pell has to answer for his own personal conduct and decisions, not the policy some distant institution. As a responsible adult, he does not get a free pass from morality, or the law of the land.

    Catholics are free to believe whatever they imagine. But if a person breaks the law, they should be subject to the consequences whether they are religious or not. If they conspire to pervert the course of justice in the crimes of friends they should be tried for it and jailed, whether they are a cardinal or not. Clergy should not be exempt from obeying the criminal law, which has nothing to do with freedom to practice religeon.

    Sadly, getting catholic bishops into court for their crimes has been difficult for a long time, and in more than one country, as this notorious case shows.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alois_Hudal

    All unfettered powers end up getting abused by fallible human beings, in churches, just like every other social institution.

  197. Frodo Baggins

    [Given todays Morgan the quesitons to ask, is it because of Shorten’s ability or Abbott’s inability? ]

    Looking at Bludgertrack on the side, Bill has peaked about 3 Years too early

  198. Acerbic Conehead

    poroti,

    [After Pyne’s effort today it is more a “Prissy fit”]

    I missed that. I presume he broke the idiotometer again.

  199. zoidlord

    @Frodo/1267

    Abbott isn’t doing much better.

    I think you are reading Bludgertracker, I don’t see Coalition Party having a great lead.

  200. zoidlord

    *not reading bludgertracker correctly.

  201. poroti

    Hello youse cricket fans. Most amazing never seen before dismissal. Saffa batsman Amla slogs the kiwi bowler straight back at him like a laser. Ball hits the non striker’s bat, bounces up in the air and the bowler takes the cutch.

  202. Acerbic Conehead

    Frodo Baggins,

    [Bill has peaked about 3 Years too early]

    It’s Tones who’s looking a bit peaky at the moment.

  203. frednk

    [
    Frodo Baggins
    Posted Monday, March 24, 2014 at 9:25 pm | Permalink

    Given todays Morgan the quesitons to ask, is it because of Shorten’s ability or Abbott’s inability?

    Looking at Bludgertrack on the side, Bill has peaked about 3 Years too early
    ]

    No doubt you are praying it is a peak; it very much looks to me as if the first 100 days is unravelling in the second 100; even without the unravelling all the Liberals could manage was even pegging.

    This is the first Liberal Government that went out to destroy the Labor Legacy, previous have attempted to claim it and offer competent management as the value add.

    The new strategy doesn’t seem to be working out; for decades the Liberals have offered very little new; now we can’t even trust them to manage Labor polices.

  204. zoidlord

    Frodo,

    How long has Abbott been Leader of the Liberal Party? Peak was Abbott in Opposition.

  205. confessions

    [They leave the nice ones running parishes. ]

    They may well do that now, but as the objective evidence suggests, they haven’t always done that in the past, or even the very recent past.

    The ones running the parishes were equally culpable IMO in abusing the vulnerable and weak, and then trying to cover up the evidence of their abuse.

    What really makes my blood boil is that religious institutions position themselves as being fighters for the vulnerable, the weak and the oppressed. The reality in terms of child abuse is far from this, yet their spokespeople continue to give morals lectures to the rest of us. Just look at that ghastly ex Labor MP you have in SA on child porn charges.

  206. Greensborough Growler

    Socrates,

    Another banal contribution.

    Seriously, much of the commentary today re Pell and the Church could and has been written before without Pell’s appearance before the RC. It is so dreary, repetitive and sanctimonious to be laughable. Most of the comments have been posted hundreds and thousands of times before.

    So, the fact that Pell appeared today has been nothing more than an excuse for the usual parties to say the usual things in the usual boring way.

  207. confessions

    According to ABC24 Abbott is still running a commentary on the missing plane.

  208. sustainable future

    why does abbott keep announcing this and being reported as though he has anything to do with it?

    http://www.theage.com.au/world/malaysia-airlines-mh370-abbott-says-new-objects-found-20140324-35e3d.html

    I’m sure rudd would have done the same. this is not a compliment.

  209. deblonay

    I heard recently of a story…of a child telling his parents that he had worked out what politics was about…He said”Labor gives you things and the Liberals come along and take them away ”
    not bad really

  210. Centre

    Kelly O’Dwyer just shut the fuck up!

  211. confessions

    Rachel Griffiths is playing Julia Gillard? WTF?

  212. confessions

    Centre:

    She hasn’t said anything yet!

  213. jeffemu

    Practice makes perfect Confessions.

    I agree Centre

  214. Centre

    She’s already hit the front spitting the most words 😐

  215. Greensborough Growler

    Centre,

    Little ol’ mysogynist you.

  216. Centre

    Are you guys on delay?

  217. cud chewer

    On Q+A just now the guy says that Gillard had to promulgate some things she didn’t believe in.

    What things?

  218. Socrates

    GG

    I will drop it when I see the catholic church voluntarily drop the uniquely privileged legal status it uses to evade legal accountability for the crimes of its officers. Until it does, the catholic church and it’s leaders are people who talk piously, but act as materialistically as any corporate CEO.

    I do not think the average person in the pews is a materialistic hypocrite, but I have experienced several senior clergy to be exactly that.

  219. Centre

    GG

    Wow, what a comeback?

  220. Greensborough Growler

    Centre,

    No………..
    Are……….
    You……….
    ?…………

  221. Greensborough Growler

    Cntre,

    If………
    The……..
    dress……
    fits…….
    you……..
    should…..
    wear…….
    it………

  222. confessions

    Is this an Arts and Cultural Qanda?

  223. confessions

    cud:

    SSM.

  224. deblonay

    Unforunately…and it applies to all parties…Australian PMs feel that they have to comment on anything that happens in the world and offern all goivts their advice
    ______________________

    Menzies couldn’t stay away from London
    Gough was olways on the move and loved China and the UN
    Hawke was quick to fix all problems,and he solved those of the Middle East didn’t he ????

    Fraser was actually pretty good re Sth Africaand Apartheid
    and achieved much there…
    Howard loved Washington and Bush and Thatcher and the Gueen

    Rudd was the epitome of all the above..spoke Mandarin too
    Julia Gillard seemed to go all girly when she ,met Obama..love at first sight ??

    I suspect the reason is that being PM in Canberra turn out to be a piss ant job..and the wider world and the State Visits are great fun…remember Keating said the best way to see Darwin was from the window of a plane on the way to Paris,,who would argue with that wisdom

  225. Centre

    Some dork is asking for respect for the office of PM?

    Take it to Alan Jones :mrgreen:

  226. Socrates

    Regarding the poll, Abbott and Shorten, I do not think it is flattering to either leader. Shorten has not done much; Abbott has not done much right.

    Abbott has not troughed yet. He has yet to face a difficult budget short on revenue and with lots of undeliverable promises. If it is not a tough budget the next ones will only get harder. If it is tough his promises will be exposed as lies. His jobs target was little more than what natural growth would achieve. Yet on current data he will not achieve that either. Good evening all.

  227. Mr Pajama Pudding

    Rupert Pell: “This is the most unwitting day of my life”

    To purloin someone’s joke from a week or so back, I’ve heard some people comparing Pell to Murdoch. I mean, yes, he’s an old scoundrel, but he’s not in the same league as Pell.

  228. Greensborough Growler

    Socrates,

    So you need to keep posting the same thing over and over to convince yourself then?

  229. Boerwar

    Pell is a true Christian.

  230. confessions

    Griffiths just tore O’Dwyer a fresh one on women’s participation in politics.

  231. confessions

    O’Dwyer sounding desperate on the ICAC stuff.

  232. Centre

    Sinodinos is innocent until proven guilty according to O’Dwyer – just like Slipper and Thomson.

  233. sustainable future

    [Abbott has not troughed yet.]

    but we have footage of the depth of the trough he is heading for
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83mT1oKC9ew

    no wonder he has a cabinet of bottom feeders

  234. deblonay

    Some very bad news from China
    _____________________
    A US Market watcher sees the Chinese market slowing down and even perhaps… a collapse
    WOW

    http://www.prudentbear.com/2014/03/aprilmayjune-dynamic.html#more

  235. confessions

    According to Fox the accusations against Sinodinos and the PM can be summed up as the tall poppy syndrome.

    WTF?

  236. Boerwar

    Q&A is ultra poor today.

  237. Greensborough Growler

    As Sinodinis is appearing as a witness only at thsi stage, is Ms O’Dwyer predicting bigger things for Arty in the near future?

  238. zoidlord

    China:
    http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/24/us-china-economy-pmi-idUSBREA2N03320140324

    “”I think the slowdown is not over yet and our expectation is that the deceleration will continue into Q2,” she added.”

    http://www.smh.com.au/business/china/china-economy-shows-more-signs-of-slowdown-20140324-35d3g.html

    “Today’s report gives some indication of how much a slowdown in the first two months of the year extended into March. Economists at companies including JPMorgan Chase & Co. and Goldman Sachs Group earlier this month cut their projections for China’s growth after fixed-asset investment rose at the slowest January-February pace since 2001, industrial production trailed estimates and exports fell by the most since 2009.”

  239. confessions

    Boerwar:

    Agreed. This is a pretty weak panel by Qanda standards.

  240. Centre

    Richard Marles 😆 how can the Libs win votes if you make it a bipartisan issue?

    The Libs need boats to win votes – let’s get real!

  241. sohar

    QandA has no standards to start with, so difficult to measure.

  242. Centre

    She doesn’t get the call but she opens her mouth.

    There you go ABC @ 10.09pm.

  243. deblonay

    and some good new from China
    ________________________________
    The Chinee… who have no relations with the Vatican are exploring …though Obamasonn to visit Rome..a Papal visit to Beijing..as a means of an opening between the Vatican and the Chinese People’s Repubic
    http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/CHIN-01-240314.html

  244. Lynchpin

    I read on this site tonight a comment to ESJ – something to do with victims of sexual abuse – children – sitting around with tambourines. What a disgraceful comment.

    I am trying to work out whether the maker of the comment is also a repressed victim.

  245. Centre

    She went for 3 minutes flat non stop 😐

  246. confessions

    Fox thinks the Liberals have Australia’s interests at heart.

    Sorry, where’s the evidence for this?

  247. Centre

    LOL The Libs want boats to win votes. They’ve been at it since 2001. Rudd tried a humane approach and the MSM with Abbott belted them.

    Get REAL, this is stupid, call it as it truly is!

  248. Centre

    One 4 Eddie 😀

  249. confessions

    Marles is awful. All I can think is thank f*ck Qanda isn’t watched by swinging voters.

  250. Steve777

    Abbott has the interests of his backers at heart – the IPA and its member organisations and people, Murdoch, assorted spivs and shonks – not the people of Australia.

  251. confessions

    [One 4 Eddie 😀 ]

    O’Dwyer will have a view. You know it.

  252. psyclaw

    Big Mouth O’Dwyer says there is no need for the ASs making the handburning allegations to be interviewed. It is enough that senior government and ADF have denied the allegations.

    Only Sinodinos should be afforded due process.

    Conservo airhead, yet she’s touted as leadership material. What a pathetic talent pool the conservos have.

  253. Jimmyhaz

    zoid @1310

    ‘The State Council, or cabinet, said this month that China will speed up construction projects and other measures to support the world’s second-largest economy’

    So the government will increase spending in order to stimulate demand? Why is it that this supposed third-world country understands how the economy works, but ours is still stuck in slash-and-burn mode.

  254. confessions

    Eddie is spot on about the buy in from women when it comes to the AFL code.

  255. confessions

    Wow, no opinion expressed (so far) by O’Dwyer. This must be a first on this show.

  256. Centre

    Eddie “women keep the AFL going”.

    Well you couldn’t play the game without them 😀

  257. sustainable future

    Marles is in the wrong party, as are many of the right faction of the ALP. Fortunately, shorten so far has impressed as a leader who seems to genuinely ‘get’ progressive issues despite his factional background and support base. i think he’s a consensus politician who listens across the party and realises the talent (plibersek, albo, wong, butler, leigh, etc) are not in his faction.

  258. NathanA

    Poroti

    There’s a video doing the rounds on facebook a few months ago from a domestic T20. The batsmen completely middled an on-drive that hit the non-striker and the bowler took the simple rebound. The batsmen looked at the non-striker, who was motionless after the blow, took a step down the wicket to see if his mate was ok, then thought stuff him, he cost me 4 runs and then walked off.

  259. confessions

    O’Dwyer still silent. This must be a record.

  260. Centre

    connie

    She still spoke the most. I’d love to get the count 😉

  261. confessions

    Centre:

    No last word for K’OD. Now that is a record. 🙂

  262. Rossmore

    Newspoll where are you?

  263. sustainable future

    [The Roy Morgan poll also has Labor ahead in Western Australia with 52 per cent on a the two-party preferred basis, just two weeks before the re-run of the West Australian Senate election.]

    Allowing for the morgan bias, what will this translate to in votes – will there be a state breakdown of primary votes?

  264. Centre

    WOW

    Lateline: I can’t believe what Brandis has said 😯

    Brandis has flipped!

  265. Fulvio Sammut

    No Newspoll yet.

    You can bet it’s a stinker for the Libs then.

    Shanahan is still under sedation.

  266. guytaur

    One point Richard Marles did make well.

    The LNP set the standard on being “clean”. Now they have to live by that standard.

    This is the major reason for the slide in the polls. Nothing much new has happened in politics federally besides this. It flows from the secrecy regarding the boats all the way to ICAC. Reminding people of wedding expenses as shown by the clapping of pigs in trough remark by Rachel Griffith.

  267. zoidlord

    TheOz:

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/abbott-support-still-strong-in-latest-newspoll/story-fn59niix-1226863729870

    The Opposition Leader’s satisfaction rating has lifted, from 33 per cent to 36 per cent, the first rise since a steady fall from 44 per cent last December to his lowest of 33 per cent, two weeks ago.

    According to the latest Newspoll survey, conducted exclusively for The Australian on the weekend, primary vote support for the Coalition was 40 per cent, marginally down from 41 per cent two weeks easlier, while ALP support was 36 per cent, compared with 35 per cent in the previous poll.

    As a result of higher Greens support and a lower independents’ vote, Labor’s two-party preferred lead over the Coalition went from 51 to 49 per cent two weeks ago to 52 to 48 per cent last weekend.

  268. guytaur

    “@GhostWhoVotes: #Newspoll 2 Party Preferred: L/NP 48 (-1) ALP 52 (+1) #auspol”

  269. zoidlord

    GhostWhoVotes ‏@GhostWhoVotes 18s

    #Newspoll 2 Party Preferred: L/NP 48 (-1) ALP 52 (+1) #auspol

  270. victoria

    #Newspoll 2 Party Preferred: L/NP 48 (-1) ALP 52 (+1) #auspol

  271. victoria

    Double snap!!

  272. zoidlord

    GhostWhoVotes ‏@GhostWhoVotes now

    #Newspoll Primary Votes: L/NP 40 (-1) ALP 36 (+1) #auspol

  273. Rossmore

    Sus Future 1332 Agree. Shorten is a slow burner. Showed his mettle at Beaconsfield, his political nous with the NDIS, and his oratory, altho a work in progress, has a touch of R F Kennedy about it.

    Give him time, he has potential to be a great leader. And his progress to date, in the circumstances, has been solid and pleasing. He’s in a three year race. He’s jogging along nicely in front and his main opponent looks flustered at the moment.

  274. Everything

    Do we know the leader approval ratings?

  275. sohar

    Before the last election Morgan had the Tories ahead by a similar margin (or more) to what Labor is in the latest poll, so not so sure about a bias.

  276. guytaur

    victoria

    The body language in parliament tomorrow is going to be interesting.

    I expect the big distraction now will be the finding of the plane

  277. zoidlord

    @Mod Lib/1350

    Posted at 1343.

  278. confessions

    victoria:

    Did you watch Qanda?

  279. Lynchpin

    Great summation Rossmore.

  280. Kevin Bonham

    sohar@1351: Those Morgans right before the last election were using a different combination of methods to these ones. These ones are skewing to Labor by over a point on last-election prefs and probably more on respondent prefs.

  281. sustainable future

    I love the way the Oz reports bad newspolls – ‘abbott support still strong’ and *cough* theLNPwouldloseanelectionheldnow48:52.

    under howard I recall a banner headline ‘HOWARD UP BY 3%’ – the result was similar to this – his net dissatisfaction was down by 3% but according to the poll he was facing a 45:55 wipeout.

    I wonder if they chuckle as they do it, or are so fanatical they don’t notice they are doing it.

  282. Rossmore

    Latest Newspoll. Has any new incoming government had a worse start in the polls? No honeymoon, no new legislation, one of its star performers in the poo before ICAC, the AG defending the rights of bigots and todays news on a backflip on trailing commissions for the financial advisors.

    Has Abbott fallen out with Brandis, with the latter defending the rights of bigots in Parliament and the former saying there’s no place in Oz for bigotry in QT. Go figure.

  283. Rossmore

    Love it when the smart lawyer tries to verbal a witness and gets the perfect riposte ….

    “Today, after Senator Sinodinos’s barrister Tony Bannon SC suggested that the “crooks” comment was a “rambunctious, idiomatic, throw-away line”, Dr Schott paused before firmly replying that Nathan Rees is an “English major, and quite eloquent”.
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-03-25/icac-arthur-sinodinos-sydney-water-awh/5343636

  284. archie

    You commentor “Kevjonno” accused me of being “an over-reaching blogger” in his comment #418 (page 7)on this post Apart from finding some amusement in his being on a blog and making this accusation.

    I have taken the time to reply with some facts and an explanation. It is a long post but the evidence needed to be laid out and analysed.

    http://archiearchive.wordpress.com/2014/03/25/malaysian-airlines-mh370-and-amsa/