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Federal Politics 2013-

Apr 22, 2014

Morgan: 52-48 to Labor

Morgan becomes a third pollster to show Greens support at its highest for at least the current term, but otherwise shows little change on a fortnight ago.

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Morgan has released its regular fortnightly face-to-face plus SMS poll covering 2955 respondents over the past two weekends. On the primary vote, Labor is down half a point to 34%, the Coalition steady on 38.5%, Palmer United steady on 5% and the Greens up a point to 13% – which, while well short of Nielsen, makes it a third pollster showing the Greens vote at its highest for at least this term, or in this case since July 2012. Labor leads 52-48 on both measures of two-party preferred, compared with 51.5-48.5 on respondent-allocated and 52-48 on previous-election preferences last time. Essential Research will be with us tomorrow.

UPDATE: Essential is with us sooner than I thought, the report having been published on their website. This shows the Coalition down a point to 41%, Labor steady on 37%, the Greens at their highest for the current term with a gain of one point to 11%, and Palmer United also up one to 5%. Labor has recovered the 51-49 lead on two-party preferred it had lost with last week’s shift to 50-50. Also featured are “most important election issues”, showing economic management and health policy have gained in salience since before the election while “political leadership” has declined; a finding that 61% oppose funding cuts to the ABC, with 21% supportive; 45% expecting the government’s motivation to reduce ABC funding would be overall spending reduction rather its dislike of ABC news coverage (45% to 28%); 71% disapproving of raising the pension age with 20% supportive; 58% favouring 65 as the pension age; 64% disapproving of including the value of the family home in asset testing for pension eligibility, with 26% supportive.

William Bowe — Editor of The Poll Bludger

William Bowe

Editor of The Poll Bludger

William Bowe is a Perth-based election analyst and occasional teacher of political science. His blog, The Poll Bludger, is one of the most heavily trafficked forums for online discussion of Australian politics, and joined the Crikey stable in 2008.

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1110 comments

1,110 thoughts on “Morgan: 52-48 to Labor

  1. Everything

    Interesting to see an ABC interviewer completely demolished by a climate change “denier” as you like to call them with your religious terminology.

  2. Astrobleme

    Everything… For realz?

    You truly think that?

  3. bemused

    victoria@1000

    bemused

    No. I have missed it

    Damn… it must have been gobbled up. I can’t find it now.

    What I said was that I had listened to it and noted:
    1. There was only 1 nasty letter out of many hundreds.
    2. There was also mention of a nasty Facebook page.
    3. Rosie Batty made no mention of her ex-husband.

    So where did you get your stuff from? Do you just hear what you want to hear or do you make stuff up?

  4. Astrobleme

    “religious terminology”

    It’s weird that you say that… Why religious?

  5. Everything

    Alberici had no idea how to counter his proposals!

    Not a clue….

  6. Everything

    “denier” is religious terminology, as was discussed beautifully on QandA by that Marxist chap.

  7. Astrobleme

    I should point this line out as it is especially hilarious

    “I just look at the evidence. There is no evidence. If people can show there is a correlation between increasing CO2 and global temperature, well then of course that’s something which we would pay attention to. But when you look at the last 17.5 years where we’ve had a multitude of climate models, and this was the basis on which this whole so-called science rests, it’s on models, computer models. And those models have been shown to be 98 per cent inaccurate.”

    There is almost no part of that statement that is true.

  8. zoidlord

    @Mod lib/1015

    I didn’t know liberals had proposals? What planet are we on?

  9. victoria

    bemused

    Que?

    Did you listen to this interview that i linked before the neil mitchell one?

    http://www.2gb.com/article/rosie-batty

  10. Astrobleme

    ““denier” is religious terminology, as was discussed beautifully on QandA by that Marxist chap.”

    Ok, so this was just baiting by you. And not something you actually believe in.

  11. Everything

    …denier is a religious term, which fits with the meme that if you question anything on this topic you are essentially an “infidel” or a “heathen”….its the exact same thing IMO.

  12. zoidlord

    Denier sounds like a term where liberals refuse to listen to science, not the other-way around.

  13. Astrobleme

    Reading the transcript I don’t get that sense Everything… Looks like he just spouted a load of rubbish that people who don’t know much about physics have read on various websites and ignored actual science…

  14. bemused

    Mad Lib@1015

    Alberici had no idea how to counter his proposals!

    Not a clue….

    It is very difficult to counter audacious bare-faced lies. You should know that. It’s the reason it’s in your Liberal play book.

  15. victoria

    Bemused

    Oh and btw i have no reason to make stuff up

  16. paaptsef

    [ de·ni·er 1
    (dĭ-nī′ər)
    n.
    One that denies: a denier of harsh realities.
    den·ier 2
    (dən-yā′)
    n.
    1. also (dĕn′yər) A unit of fineness for rayon, nylon, and silk fibers, based on a standard mass per length of 1 gram per 9,000 meters of yarn.
    2. also (də-nîr′)
    a. A small coin of varying composition and value current in western Europe from the eighth century until the French Revolution.
    b. Archaic A small, trifling sum.
    [Middle English denere, a coin, from Old French dener, from Latin dēnārius; see denarius.]

  17. bemused

    victoria@1025

    Bemused

    Oh and btw i have no reason to make stuff up

    OK, so it’s just spontaneous.

  18. Astrobleme

    “…denier is a religious term, which fits with the meme that if you question anything on this topic you are essentially an “infidel” or a “heathen”….its the exact same thing IMO.”

    Well, you should first define ‘religion’ and see if we have a common agreement – I think you’re going to define it differently to me.

    Now, if you were to actually come forward with some claims we could actually explore them together rather than banter about whether people can be labelled… Which is far more boring.

    So tell me, what did Maurice Newman say that was so convincing?

  19. fredex

    [Alberici had no idea how to counter his proposals!
    Not a clue….]

    Fully agree – its an indictment of the ABC that a star reporter cannot refute the stupid and ignorant claims of a well knowm climate denialist which have been refuted numerous times and such is readily available to any halfway competent journalist.
    Every claim he made was false and easily shown to be so. yet Alberici, and the ABC, dropped the ball.
    Disgraceful.

  20. guytaur

    “@Lateline: “I can’t think of a finance Min. in the Western World that wouldn’t give their left arm 2 be in the position of the Aus Govt.”- Andrew Neil”

  21. imacca

    [ Defense is an order of magnitude easier than offense ]

    Remarkably arguable.

    [ repel an invasion or tooling up to go invading elsewhere. ]

    Not in our context except for some aspects of the Army. Besides, people are happy enough to have all the “offensive” tools to put a force over a hostile and difficult beach (for example) when they are needed for disaster relief somewhere. We are in fact investing heavily in those (Canberra Class) at the moment.

  22. zoidlord

    Of course the Liberal Party does not have a Science Minister.

  23. victoria

    bemused

    What the heck are you on about

  24. Everything

    Yes having a Science Minister would have made a world of difference…

  25. imacca

    [ Interesting to see an ABC interviewer completely demolished by a climate change “denier” as you like to call them with your religious terminology. ]

    So you didn’t actually watch it then? 🙂 Newman came across as a slightly befuddled parrot.

  26. Everything

    [So tell me, what did Maurice Newman say that was so convincing?]

    He didn’t convince me of much, si I might be the wrong person to ask! :devil:

  27. zoidlord

    Better than a useless minister(s).

  28. Astrobleme

    Was it this statement:
    ” Emma, let’s not confuse the issues. Cleaning the atmosphere, which is what carbon pollution is about, not CO2, CO2 is not a pollutant. But cleaning the atmosphere, being more efficient, all of that makes sense. That’s got nothing to do with climate. That’s to do with economics and being efficient.

    But I would say to all of those people who are arguing that CO2 creates global warming and man is adding to the global warming to show the empirical evidence of where this is so. Because I’m saying to you that where this originates is from models. Computer models which are wrong. Now, if you can show me where there is some sort of correlation that proves beyond doubt that what we have is global warming as a consequence of CO2 and man’s contribution to CO2 in the atmosphere, well then we can have a different conversation.”

    because that is hilarious…

    ‘Cleaning the atmosphere, which is what carbon pollution is about, not CO2, CO2 is not a pollutant. But cleaning the atmosphere, being more efficient, all of that makes sense.”

    what does that even mean? Is he talking about getting soot out of the air?

  29. bemused

    victoria@1019

    bemused

    Que?

    Did you listen to this interview that i linked before the neil mitchell one?

    http://www.2gb.com/article/rosie-batty

    No, I listened to the Neil Mitchell interview.

    I feel like I need a shower after listening to 2GB but I will brace myself and listen now.

  30. guytaur

    Wow. Neil reckons that Murdoch wants an independent Scotland as revenge for phone hacking trial.

  31. Astrobleme

    “Yes having a Science Minister would have made a world of difference…”

    Yes, probably would have. Because then when questions of science crop up they would be obligated to speak about it… And would quite probably getting ridiculed for never getting it right. Like a Sports Minister would get ridiculed for constantly talking Sports down.

  32. imacca

    [ …denier is a religious term, ]

    That it may have been, at some time and place, used in a religious context does not make it a religious term.

    That the Grumpy True Disbelievers have a decidedly religious, fingers in the ears, dismiss and disparage all not one of us devotion to their denial of the current state of the science is something very apparent though.

  33. Everything

    Didn’t seem to hurt Jason Clare….

  34. Astrobleme

    “He didn’t convince me of much, si I might be the wrong person to ask! :devil:”

    So you’re not disappointed that on such an important issue he would spout a load of garbage, to spread doubt and misinformation?

  35. Everything

    I am a big supporter of everyone getting their say, I listen, then I decide.

  36. Astrobleme

    “Didn’t seem to hurt Jason Clare….”

    What did he say that was ‘crazy’ or quite plainly wrong? Did he say that Cricket causes Lung Cancer? Or that kids shouldn’t pay sport because it causes pneumonia? Because that’s the level of lunacy the Maurice Newman went to.

  37. Astrobleme

    “I am a big supporter of everyone getting their say, I listen, then I decide.”

    So you just listen and listen and listen??? That’s strange.
    How long do you keep listening for?
    I mean this ‘debate’ has been going on since 1896, I think the evidence is pretty clear now.

  38. Everything

    The Catholics can beat you…..they talk about being the bastions of truth for two millennia.

  39. Astrobleme

    I mean this sort of stuff has been resolved ages ago:

    ” Well, if you look at the – if you go back in history, and you look at when the sun has been active and when the sun has been inactive, will you find the climate on earth responds accordingly. So we had the more to minimum, we go back to medieval warm period, you will find they correspond very closely to what happens with the sun. There’s very little correlation with CO2, in fact, if anything, which came out of Al Gore’s Inconvenient Truth, there’s a six to 800-year lag between CO2 and climate.”

    It’s as if he hasn’t actually read anything other than what Roy Spencer posts on his blog.

  40. absolutetwaddle

    Everything

    ‘“denier” is religious terminology…’

    Um, yeah. No it isn’t. Stop listening Marxists, Mod Lib.

  41. Astrobleme

    Everything

    You avoided the question.
    How long do you listen to this discussion before deciding?

  42. Astrobleme

    “where is the empirical evidence to show that increases in CO2 impact temperatures?”

    I mean wow… It’s as if Carbon dioxide lasers just don’t work

    and I guess all that geological evidence is just wrong too.

  43. absolutetwaddle

    Everything

    ‘The Catholics can beat you…..they talk about being the bastions of truth for two millennia.’

    What a breathtakingly stupid analogy.

  44. guytaur

    I think Morrison’s policy regime is starting to come undone. The actions of the courts will be interesting in light of legislation and the UNHCR report

    Goodnight

  45. Astrobleme

    amazingly enough half way through the interview Maurice Newman turns into Kerry Brewster and then back again?

    “KERRY BREWSTER: I agree, but then you’ve got scientists, climate scientists now in Norway, in Germany, in Russia, in America, saying we’re now going in for a period of 30 or 40 years of increasingly cool climate conditions”

  46. Astrobleme

    Night from me…

    I’m sad you can’t decide ‘Everything’.

    Maybe if you read some of the literature?

    Tell you what. You think of the evidence you need to show you that AGW is real, and I will get it to you.
    I bet if you think it through and work out what evidence you need, it will be there. There is simply so much available.

  47. caf

    imacca: The question is most applicable to the Navy, really – and you’re right, the LHDs _are_ a platform that is basically offensive in nature although, as you say, they are given a figleaf of a disaster-relief role.

  48. Everything

    [Astrobleme
    Posted Wednesday, April 23, 2014 at 11:10 pm | PERMALINK
    Everything

    You avoided the question.
    How long do you listen to this discussion before deciding?]

    Perhaps because the question makes no sense????

    “How long do you listen to this discussion before deciding?”

    Can I use that in one of my MCQ exams? I would like to see what responses I would get to that!

  49. Player One

    Astrobleme@1052

    “where is the empirical evidence to show that increases in CO2 impact temperatures?”

    Seriously? Who said that? And where have they been for the past 450,000 years?

  50. zoidlord

    Mod lib channeling Catholics….

  51. Compact Crank

    Given the amount of Anti-JSF noise posted here (despite ALP support) it is clearly the right decision.

    Just a couple of salient points:

    1. Yes, the F-22 would be nice – but they aren’t for sale.
    2. We aren’t going to buy Russian or Chinese kit.
    3. The F-35 will operate in an Integrated Joint Air-Surface environment – not by itself.
    4. All the Invasion/Defence bollocks being spewed disregards the fact that we operate within the ANZUS alliance.

  52. zoidlord

    @CC/1061

    I thought we had a budget emergency…?

  53. briefly

    [1016
    Everything

    “denier” is religious terminology, as was discussed beautifully on QandA by that Marxist chap.]

    Yeah, a better term is charlatan. There are others. Snake oil merchants, con-artists, frauds, buffoons, dimwits, shysters, fakes, scoundrels, embezzlers, sophists, double-dealers, crooks, swindlers, cheats, liars, propagandists, thieves, cynics, …to list just some.

  54. bemused

    victoria,

    OK, I listened to that 2GB recording and there is no denial that Rosies ex was mentally ill. Just no mention of that aspect at all, so nothing to contradict previous reporting such as the detailed report by John Silvester.

    The way she describes him, his life was spiralling out of control and he was increasingly threatening and violent.

    She did make a comment to the effect we would never know what he was thinking as he was dead.

  55. Tom the first and best

    1061

    What about the French or European options?

  56. briefly

    The F-22 looks like the best of its kind and is a class above the F-35. Nonetheless the F-35 was described today by the idiot now serving as Defence Minister, as “peerless”.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Martin_F-22_Raptor

    [The aircraft was variously designated F-22 and F/A-22 prior to formally entering service in December 2005 as the F-22A. Despite a protracted development, the United States Air Force considers the F-22 a critical component of their tactical air power, and claims that the aircraft is unmatched by any known or projected fighter. Lockheed Martin claims that the Raptor’s combination of stealth, speed, agility, precision and situational awareness, combined with air-to-air and air-to-ground combat capabilities, makes it the best overall fighter in the world today. Air Chief Marshal Angus Houston, former Chief of the Australian Defence Force, said in 2004 that the “F-22 will be the most outstanding fighter plane ever built.”]

  57. leftwingpinko

    …denier is a religious term, which fits with the meme that if you question anything on this topic you are essentially an “infidel” or a “heathen”….its the exact same thing IMO.

    Denying some sort of religious edict and denying scientific research are actually the total bloody opposite.

  58. bemused

    briefly@1063


    1016
    Everything

    “denier” is religious terminology, as was discussed beautifully on QandA by that Marxist chap.


    Yeah, a better term is charlatan. There are others. Snake oil merchants, con-artists, frauds, buffoons, dimwits, shysters, fakes, scoundrels, embezzlers, sophists, double-dealers, crooks, swindlers, cheats, liars, propagandists, thieves, cynics, …to list just some.

    You omitted “Liberal”.

  59. victoria

    bemused

    Of course, she cant speak for the dead. But she spoke fo what he did and why he did it.
    His actions are fairly self explanatory. Dont you think.
    She said that his action to kill his son that day in front of her was a premeditated act.
    He could have left his partner and son well enough alone, but he chose to kill him insfead. Nothing excuses this behaviour.

  60. Player One

    bemused@1064


    OK, I listened to that 2GB recording and there is no denial that Rosies ex was mentally ill.

    Wow. you must have been listening to a different interview than Victoria and I. Rosie clearly stated that the attack came out of nowhere, could not have been predicted, was carefully timed, planned and obviously premeditated, and was primarily motivated by him losing control over her.

    I really don’t know what you’re trying to prove here any longer bemused, but it is clear that this poor boys death had nothing to do with mental illness.

    I suspect you simply don’t like having been demonstrated to be so completely wrong … again.

  61. victoria

    Player one

    [I suspect you simply don’t like having been demonstrated to be so completely wrong … again.]

    You got it in one!

    On that note, nignt all

  62. briefly

    [983
    Carey Moore

    The point of defence is to make it not worth attacking you.]

    CM, even if defence relied mostly on deterrence, surely there is a good deal more to deterrence than simply being able to repel an attack.

  63. Thomas. Paine.

    [2. We aren’t going to buy Russian or Chinese kit.]

    Too bad, its far superior to the F-35

    [3. The F-35 will operate in an Integrated Joint Air-Surface environment – not by itself.
    4. All the Invasion/Defence bollocks being spewed disregards the fact that we operate within the ANZUS alliance.]

    Just a moment, could you please delay your incursions…we need to wait on the US defence capability to arrive so we can fly our F-35s which by themselves are big blow flies with parts that randomly fall off.

  64. Puff, the Magic Dragon.

    This would not surprise me, although there is no supporting evidence linked. I often wonder about the effects of injuries from domestic violence on women as they age. Getting punched around can lead to brain damage, maybe dementia, the broken limbs that get arthritic, damaged sight and hearing and theb there is PTSD.

    Men’s violence leading cause of death, illness & disability for Australian women aged 15-44

    We have to start raising boys to respect women— Kon Karapanagiotidis (@Kon__K) April 22, 2014

    But these men have an excuse, there is always and excuse. She asked for it, she deserved it, he is stressed, or has a mental illness (overlooks the many with mental illness who never hurt anyone)or it is the drinking or, whatever works as an excuse.

  65. imacca

    [ they are given a figleaf of a disaster-relief role. ]

    Damn, you have exposed the evil plan to use them to invade Lower Kalathumpia!!!!

  66. briefly

    [1068….bemused]

    lol

    There are insults that even climate deniers don’t deserve…

  67. bemused

    victoria@1069

    bemused

    Of course, she cant speak for the dead. But she spoke fo what he did and why he did it.
    His actions are fairly self explanatory. Dont you think.
    She said that his action to kill his son that day in front of her was a premeditated act.
    He could have left his partner and son well enough alone, but he chose to kill him insfead. Nothing excuses this behaviour.

    He was undoubtedly unstable, volatile and violent.

    She also mentioned that he knew that he was not going to see his son again after that day. That is the sort of thing that can cause a person to lose all hope for the future. A mentally ill person in that situation develops a kind of tunnel vision and will only see one solution. His was to join his son in death. Absolutely terrible, but such things happen as the warped thinking of an unsound mind.

    Oh, I should also mention, they happen with mothers killing their kids and themselves too, or mothers killing their child. Ever heard of post-natal depression?

  68. zoidlord

    New NBN Co stacked board thinks it’s bad for us to be regulated:
    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/04/22/nbn_co_to_government_unchain_us/

  69. bemused

    Player One@1070

    bemused@1064


    OK, I listened to that 2GB recording and there is no denial that Rosies ex was mentally ill.

    Wow. you must have been listening to a different interview than Victoria and I. Rosie clearly stated that the attack came out of nowhere, could not have been predicted, was carefully timed, planned and obviously premeditated, and was primarily motivated by him losing control over her.

    I really don’t know what you’re trying to prove here any longer bemused, but it is clear that this poor boys death had nothing to do with mental illness.

    I suspect you simply don’t like having been demonstrated to be so completely wrong … again.

    You clearly have no understanding of mental illness and assume a mentally ill person is incapable of making a plan and executing it. That is simply not so.

    It is just that the plan the make and carry out is the product of a disturbed mind.

    The most common such plan is suicide.

    Less commonly they will kill someone else and then may follow that with suicide.

  70. bemused

    briefly@1076


    1068….bemused


    lol

    There are insults that even climate deniers don’t deserve…

    Oh sorry. I overlooked the gentleness of your soul. 😉

  71. Thomas. Paine.

    [Seymour Hersch the US correspondent who broke the story about the US torture prison at Abu Ghraib in Iraq,now tells of his recent findings re the war in Syria

    …The Turkish Govt in league with the US set off a series of events which would give the excuse for an invasion of Syria…The Saudis hated Syrian’s secular regime…The Israelis hated it because it supported Hezzibollah and the US neo-cons wanted to dominate the whole Middle anyway
    East(though they failed in Iraq after all)

    Hersch looks at the Turkish PM Erdogan and his sinister role,even to the extent of planning an attack on Turkish forces in a false flag operation on the border with Syria
    A revealing story
    The story from the American Conservative is called”Cooking the Books in Syria”]

    Erdogan by his own words shown to be a total low life scum planning to have his own people killed so as to blame Syria for it (second false flag….. at least one chemical attack also I believe arrange by Turkey in Syria…killing civilians…)… all to provide a rational to start an a war and coup on the Syrian govt.

    The whole show so corrupt (including the CIA giving arms to Al Qaeda operatives to attack Syrian regeim (and also help murder Americans and allies elsewhere in the world…but what the heck…)).. it simply hard to know how much of the allegations against the Syrian govt are true if at all…so much BS being spread.

    And in any case the actions of Israel, Turkey, USA and Saudi Arabia … a darn site more criminal and murderous than anything the Syrian govt could have done. I don’t know how people can say it is fine for USA and friends to stage murder of thousands of civilians in one place to bring on a coup…then protest Russia causing strife when somebody starts politica chaos on its very borders.

    I am sure the US would be pissied if Russia stoked anti USA revolution and coup in Mexico, Texas…etcc

  72. Player One

    bemused@1077

    victoria@1069

    He was undoubtedly unstable, volatile and violent.

    She also mentioned that he knew that he was not going to see his son again after that day. That is the sort of thing that can cause a person to lose all hope for the future. A mentally ill person in that situation develops a kind of tunnel vision and will only see one solution. His was to join his son in death. Absolutely terrible, but such things happen as the warped thinking of an unsound mind.

    It is you that is unhinged here, bemused. You have no evidence to support your claims that he was mentally ill at all.

    None.

    Rosie specifically said that he had never been violent, and that she never feared for either herself and her son.

    He did this as an act of premeditated revenge, because she defied him. Why do you have such difficulty understanding this?

  73. Puff, the Magic Dragon.

    Men kill their partner’s children to hurt and punish her. There was one case in Australia where a man killed his ex-partner’s children from her first marriage (his step-children) but left her children of whom he was the natural father, alive.

    If she leaves or attempts to leave the man will kill the kids and/or pets. Often it is the pets first who are tortured and killed and if that doesn’t work, the kids.

    It is just how they are, it is not mental illness, or stress. They are just bastards.

  74. Player One

    bemused@1079

    Player One@1070


    bemused@1064

    You clearly have no understanding of mental illness and assume a mentally ill person is incapable of making a plan and executing it. That is simply not so.

    It is just that the plan the make and carry out is the product of a disturbed mind.

    The most common such plan is suicide.

    Less commonly they will kill someone else and then may follow that with suicide.

    There you go again. If you first assume he was mentally ill, you can conclude anything you damn well please.

    But there is no evidence to support that assumption.

    None at all.

    And lots of direct eye-witness testimony to the contrary.

  75. imacca

    [ The F-22 looks like the best of its kind and is a class above the F-35. Nonetheless the F-35 was described today by the idiot now serving as Defence Minister, as “peerless”. ]

    There are issues with sustainment and availability in the US F22 fleet. I dont think we would be able to afford to keep them flying if we had them. And, they are out of production with no prospect of a re-start.

    They also have VERY limited air to ground capability and its looking like the USAF doesn’t have that much interest in giving them more since they have F35 on the way and is way too sexy for that kind of demeaning stuff anyway. 🙂

    In fact, the US has already started moving on FA-XX, which is likely to be the successor to both F22 and F35. Will be interesting if that is an option around the time we are looking at replacing the Super Hornets.

    [ 2. We aren’t going to buy Russian or Chinese kit.

    Too bad, its far superior to the F-35 ]

    Seriously?? I wouldn’t subscribe to the ” Big Bad Sukhoi Wolf will eat us all” kind of stuff found around the internet so much. T50 has a ways to go before its real as well. F35 with kit like the proposed CUDA missile in dozen lots will be no pushover.

  76. Player One

    Puff, the Magic Dragon.@1083

    Men kill their partner’s children to hurt and punish her. There was one case in Australia where a man killed his ex-partner’s children from her first marriage (his step-children) but left her children of whom he was the natural father, alive.

    If she leaves or attempts to leave the man will kill the kids and/or pets. Often it is the pets first who are tortured and killed and if that doesn’t work, the kids.

    It is just how they are, it is not mental illness, or stress. They are just bastards.

    Seems to be exactly the situation in this sad case.

  77. caf

    imacca: Only as part of a multinational joint operation to liberate Lower Kalathumpia from the despotic regime that is oppressing the noble Kalathumpians and threatening global peace and security.

    They *are* military ships, you know.

  78. bemused

    Player One@1082

    bemused@1077

    victoria@1069

    He was undoubtedly unstable, volatile and violent.

    She also mentioned that he knew that he was not going to see his son again after that day. That is the sort of thing that can cause a person to lose all hope for the future. A mentally ill person in that situation develops a kind of tunnel vision and will only see one solution. His was to join his son in death. Absolutely terrible, but such things happen as the warped thinking of an unsound mind.

    It is you that is unhinged here, bemused. You have no evidence to support your claims that he was mentally ill at all.

    None.

    Rosie specifically said that he had never been violent, and that she never feared for either herself and her son.

    He did this as an act of premeditated revenge, because she defied him. Why do you have such difficulty understanding this?

    It was widely reported in the press at the time and never denied. I provided a link to a very thorough investigatory report earlier.

    Try googling ‘greg anderson mental illness’.

    What drives your persistent denial that he was mentally ill contrary to all the reporting at the time? What is your explanation of such behaviour? Possessed by demons perhaps? Just “bad” or “evil”? What?

  79. imacca

    [ They *are* military ships, you know. ]

    Only barely. For their size they are fitted with surprisingly few things that go bang.

  80. Puff, the Magic Dragon.

    This is an interesting research paper on Murder-Suicide in Australia.
    http://aic.gov.au/documents/8/F/8/%7B8F8A985A-04D3-4E14-88AF-DDE56BA745D8%7Dti82.pdf
    The rough and ready from the conclusions are:
    Perpetrators are more likely to be
    – Male
    – Caucasian
    – Be older in age than other types of homicide perpetrators.
    – Working

    Victims are more likely to be:
    – Female
    – Working
    – Caucasian

    The crime:
    – most common weapon is a firearm
    – occurs between people closely known to each other.
    – the longer a couple has been together the higher the risk
    – rate of murder-homicide increases as ‘ordinary’ homicide decreases.
    – children increase the risk.
    – has a low incidence of alcohol use by either perpetrator or victim when the crime occurs.

    Make of it what you will.

  81. zoidlord

    UK gov borrowing hit target limit:
    http://www.bbc.com/news/business-27125024

    While our gov borrowed to blame for political purposes…

    Even Austerity-like cuts in the UK only saved the gov a little bit.

  82. Player One

    [ It was widely reported in the press at the time and never denied. I provided a link to a very thorough investigatory report earlier.

    Try googling ‘greg anderson mental illness’. ]

    The infallible “Dr Google”, eh? He’s a psychiatrist as well now?

    Actually, I did read quite a few of articles on this subject. Lots of insinuations and allegations – all unsubstantiated. None of them provided any actual evidence.

    None.

    But there is lots of evidence to the contrary, including the testimony of Rosie Batty, which you seem to simply dismiss. Or perhaps not understand.

    I think we all know why you simply can’t accept this, bemused – and it says far more about your attitudes to women and domestic violence than it says about the death of poor Luke Batty.

    As kezza pointed out the other night, you still seem to be carrying some serious baggage around to do with women asserting authority. If I were you, I’d try and resolve your issues before its too late.

    But I feel I have done enough to try and help you tonight. We can take it up again tomorrow, if you like.

  83. bemused

    Goodnight all.

  84. Bugler

    [ Well, if you look at the – if you go back in history, and you look at when the sun has been active and when the sun has been inactive, will you find the climate on earth responds accordingly]

    Maybe we can ship him to a system with an “inactive” star

  85. Bugler

    I’m sure it would be more than enough “evidence”.

  86. briefly

    [1080….bemused]

    I’m trying to improve…:)

  87. briefly

    William, how is the next bludgertrack progressing?

  88. William Bowe

    Like a volcano waiting to erupt across the Australian body politic.

  89. Puff, the Magic Dragon.

    Anderson may or may not have committed that heinous crime because of is mental illness, but even if he did, he is just one man with one crime.

    The seeds of the idea that women and their children are the property of men and therefore live only on the goodwill of the man who owns them goes back thousands of years. In Ancient Rome, I understand the family Patriarch had total control over his wife and children and could kill them legally, any time he chose.

    This idea that feeds into the reality women live today, that they and their children may die at anytime by the hand of the man who lives with them, is the basis of the actions of mentally ill men who kill, in my opinion. The self is not an organism that lives outside its social setting. Our social setting enables family violence and family murder.

    In saying that, we must remember that the vast number of mentally ill men harm no-one and the vast number of family violence perpetrators have no mental illness. Occasionally the two states will intersect but this is not the basis for murder-suicide.

    I find the blaming of that boy’s horrific murder on the father’s mental illness to be a hasty and pathetic excuse. Just because Anderson may have had a mental illness does not mean that illness created the murder. There is an even chance he would have done the same if he had no mental illness, when faced with his wife’s separation.

    I would think, although I may be wrong, that people who take their children’s lives ‘so they could be together’ or ‘to make sure the children were not left behind alone’ i.e. to spare the kids the harm of life, would do so less violent ways than the one used by Luke Batty. I also think, without evidence to back up the opinion as I am no expert, that the act chosen would not leave the child disfigured.

    I suspect that Anderson decided to punish his ex-partner by killing their child painfully and horrifically in front of her, and like a coward, force another person to wear the trauma of killing him.

    A mentally ill person could plan and carry this out, but the crime says what Anderson was; a violent murderer, a failure as a father and a human being; it does not say it was the product of his possible illness.

    In my humble opinion.

  90. Puff, the Magic Dragon.

    Thanks, William.

  91. Puff, the Magic Dragon.

    <a href="William Bowe@1102

    Like a volcano waiting to erupt across the Australian body politic.

    <a href="<a href=" http:="" blogs.crikey.com.au="" pollbludger="" 2014="" 04="" 22="" morgan-52-48-to-labor-2="" ?comment_page="23/#comment-1961355"" >william="" bowe@1102

    Like a volcano waiting to erupt across the Australian body politic.<a href="http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2014/04/22/morgan-52-48-to-labor-2/?comment_page=23/#comment-1961355&quot; >william="" bowe@1102
    Like a volcano waiting to erupt across the Australian body politic.

    http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2014/04/22/morgan-52-48-to-labor-2/?comment_page=23/#comment-1961355“>William Bowe@1102

    Like a volcano waiting to erupt across the Australian body po litic.

    http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2014/04/22/morgan-52-48-to-labor-2/?comment_page=23/#comment-1961355“>William Bowe@1102

    Like a volcano waiting to erupt across the Australian body politic.

    Please give me warning so I can grab my fireproof umbrella.

  92. Puff, the Magic Dragon.

    cripes. what a mess!

  93. Puff, the Magic Dragon.

    oops

  94. crikey whitey

    Cripes, Puff!

    Delete 1102 as well.

  95. imacca

    ok, probably boring for most but here is some late night reading i was doing on JSF and some of the worst “criticisms” made of it lately.

    http://elementsofpower.blogspot.ca/2013/04/the-f-35-and-infamous-sustained-g-spec.html

    Not quite the aerodynamic disaster dog its made out to be.

    I reckon that probably the biggest risk left with JSF is, as mentioned up-thread, software integration. It will be late i’m sure, but i suspect in time for the Australian intro to service dates.

  96. Otiose

    Nett_NEWS++™ @ http://bit.ly/1aQcqOy #JSF, #abbott Macho Maverick lays Waste by @rowe_david © http://bit.ly/1f6fME9

  97. briefly

    [1099
    William Bowe

    Like a volcano waiting to erupt across the Australian body politic.]

    Much as usual, then, William. For some reason I’m thinking of Bob Carr. Perhaps it’s because he is proud to think of himself as the body politic incarnate. He is so gratified by this thought that he considered dating himself and adding an extra chapter to his current modest book, the self-published, “Bob – The Romantic Diary of a Great Stud.”

  98. bemused

    Player One@1093


    It was widely reported in the press at the time and never denied. I provided a link to a very thorough investigatory report earlier.

    Try googling ‘greg anderson mental illness’.


    The infallible “Dr Google”, eh? He’s a psychiatrist as well now?

    Actually, I did read quite a few of articles on this subject. Lots of insinuations and allegations – all unsubstantiated. None of them provided any actual evidence.

    None.

    But there is lots of evidence to the contrary, including the testimony of Rosie Batty, which you seem to simply dismiss. Or perhaps not understand.

    I think we all know why you simply can’t accept this, bemused – and it says far more about your attitudes to women and domestic violence than it says about the death of poor Luke Batty.

    As kezza pointed out the other night, you still seem to be carrying some serious baggage around to do with women asserting authority. If I were you, I’d try and resolve your issues before its too late.

    But I feel I have done enough to try and help you tonight. We can take it up again tomorrow, if you like.

    You are not merely a grub, but a disgraceful grub!

    You know damn well that I abhor violence toward women and children in any form.

    For the record, Rosie Batty indicated that her ex was aggressive, abusive and violent toward her, but never her son until that dreadful event and she had believed he would never harm their son.

    I have no problem with competent women being in authority and some of the best bosses I have ever had were women.

    I have also supported and campaigned for women candidates.

    Yes, someone here has a problem, and that is you! And your problem is dealing with the truth.