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Federal Election 2016

May 7, 2014

Seat of the week: Franklin

With Saturday's election in the corresponding state upper house seat of Huon fresh in the mind, Seat of the Week takes a visit to the Tasmanian seat of Franklin.

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Red and blue numbers respectively indicate booths with two-party majorities for Labor and Liberal. Click for larger image. Map boundaries courtesy of Ben Raue at The Tally Room.

The only seat left standing for Labor in Tasmania after a 9.4% statewide swing at the last election, Franklin covers the Hobart suburbs on the eastern bank of the Derwent River together with Kingston on the city’s southern fringe, small towns further to the south, and the unpopulated southern part of the World Heritage area in Tasmania’s south-west. The remainder of Hobart, including the city centre and the suburbs on the river’s western bank, constitutes the electorate of Denison. As one of Tasmania’s constitutionally mandated five House of Representatives seats, Franklin has an enrolment of roughly three-quarters the national average and an uninterrupted history going back to the state’s division into single-member electorates in 1903.

Labor first won Franklin at a by-election held two months after the election of Jim Scullin’s government in 1929, then lost it again amid the party’s debacle of 1931. The seat subsequently changed hands in 1934, 1946, 1969 and 1975, before remaining in Liberal hands throughout the Fraser years and the first 10 years of the Hawke-Keating government. Labor finally won the seat when colourful Liberal member Bruce Goodluck retired at the 1993 election, which together a strong statewide result for Labor delivered a decisive 9.5% swing to Harry Quick. Quick maintained the seat with only mild swings either way at subsequent elections, although there were occasional suggestions he might be brought undone by internal party machinations. When his preselection appeared threatened ahead of the 2004 election, Quick was able to secure his position partly by indicating that he might run as an independent.

After choosing his own time of departure at the 2007 election, Quick sought to keep the seat out of factional hands by promoting his staffer Roger Joseph as his successor. This was thwarted when a deal assigned Franklin to Kevin Harkins, state secretary of the Left faction Electrical Trades Union, and Bass to the Right-backed Steve Reissig. Objecting that Harkins was a “right thuggish bastard” who would lose the seat, Quick declared that he planned to vote for the Greens. His attacks drew blood as newly anointed Labor leader Kevin Rudd sought to distance the party from unsavoury union associations, with Harkins carrying baggage from the 2003 Cole royal commission into the building and construction industry. Harkins’ position ultimately became untenable in July 2007 when the Australian Building and Construction Commission brought charges against him over an illegal strike. When he won preselection for the Senate ahead of the 2010 election, he was again rolled by the intervention of Kevin Rudd.

With Harkins out of the picture and the election looming, the preselection was referred to the party’s national executive, which maintained the factional balance by choosing the Left’s Julie Collins, the state party secretary and a strongly performing though unsuccessful candidate at the March 2006 state election. The loss of Quick’s personal vote combined with the manner of his departure resulted in Collins suffering a 3.1% swing, one of only four swings to the Coalition at that election. Coming off a suppressed base, she went on to enjoy a 6.8% swing at the 2010 election, the highest recorded by a Labor candidate anywhere in the country. She then emerged Labor’s only lower house survivor in the face of a swing that unseated sitting members in Bass, Braddon and Lyons, her margin reduced to 5.1% by a 5.7% swing to the Liberals that was 3.7% below the statewide result.

Collins was made a parliamentary secretary after the election, and progressed to the outer ministry as Community Services Minister in December 2011. After backing Kevin Rudd’s successful leadership bid in late June she was promoted to cabinet, adding housing and homelessness, the status of women and indigenous employment to her existing area of responsibility. Since the election defeat she has held the shadow portfolios of regional development, local government and employment services.

William Bowe — Editor of The Poll Bludger

William Bowe

Editor of The Poll Bludger

William Bowe is a Perth-based election analyst and occasional teacher of political science. His blog, The Poll Bludger, is one of the most heavily trafficked forums for online discussion of Australian politics, and joined the Crikey stable in 2008.

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904 comments

904 thoughts on “Seat of the week: Franklin

  1. confessions

    [A bunch of journalists asked him why he was using a ministerial press conference to launch a Liberal document.]

    So a mission fail in other words as I haven’t seen it reported anywhere other than twitter?

    It seems as though the press pack have turned against Abbott in much the same way they turned against Gillard. I wonder if Abbott has the ability to get them back on side again.

  2. confessions

    [Christine Milne today said “Tony Abbott is having his Juliar moment by braking an election promise”.]

    Seriously? Did Milne actually say that?

  3. ShowsOn

    [If I haven’t heard anyone from Labor set the record straight…no one else whose vote counts has either!]
    Well read some transcripts by Chris Bowen. At the moment he is doing a better job of it than Shorten.

    For example, watch this ABC fact check:
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-05-06/has-the-government-doubled-the-budget-deficit/5423392

  4. Edwina StJohn

    Your contributions have always been diverting and amusing in a juvenile way showson but lately they have become rather tiresome.

  5. BK

    Yes Atticus, a good article and a necessary call to arms.

  6. ShowsOn

    [Your contributions have always been diverting and amusing in a juvenile way showson but lately they have become rather tiresome.]
    You just don’t have the intellectual capacity to comprehend what I am writing.

  7. kezza2

    It’s getting more and more obvious to me that we can’t take a journo’s word for accurate reporting.

    Just as we see Andrew Bolt erroneous take Waleed Aly’s interview on The Project totally out of context, and misleadingly report to his readers that Aly was not prepared to admit his fellow Muslims were to blame for the kidnapping (and preparedness to sell) 270 Christian teenage women to the highest bidder, then we, we Pollbludgers, have to keep going to the primary sources.

    In these days that means video sources of complete interviews. And they usually pop up somewhere on line within a few days.

    So, Fairfax journos are out on strike re redundancies. And Kate McClyrmont tweets that she can no longer tweet regarding ICAC.

    Something for which she has been praised (her reporting so far, not her inability to do tomorrow).

    Is that really going to affect us?

    Not so much. She wasn’t the only one tweeting.
    And I did find much of her tweeting to be less than professional.

    It’s okay for us to call Arthur Sinodinis “Arfur”, but for a serious journo, should she really tweet the same?

    Should she call Alan Jones “The Parrott” in her tweets?

    And there’s many more nicknames, most derogatory.

    Am I wrong in wanting a bit more of straight reporting than this endless display of ‘cleverness’?

    Which brings me to Miranda Devine’s hilarious article about “f_cking gay c_nt”

    On the one hand she tells the story of the devolving of the word “gay”, and then calls “f_cking” and “c_nt” swearwords, and then says one of them, presumably c_nt, is sexist.

    And forgets to tell the story of the many meanings of those words, where f_ck in all its glory has transformed from a verb to be collogquially used as a emphatic adjective, and c_nt is used as definitive term of contempt while having nothing to do with female genitalia.

    Ah well, I did but try to bring this to your attention, over the past few years by my use of same.

  8. ShowsOn

    [Seriously? Did Milne actually say that?]
    I think she said that yesterday.

  9. ruawake

    From Chris Bowen, the apparently invisible on PB person, today.

    [MYEFO revealed that the Government has parked an additional $10 billion in the Contingency Reserve for 2015-16 and 2016-17. This is spending we don’t have all the details on and it’s spending that contributes to Joe Hockey’s doubling the deficits, adding $68bn to budget deficits.

    If you read MYEFO at face value it suggests that only $13.7 billion of the total $68 billion blowout was attributable to new policy decisions.

    However a deeper investigation shows that hidden in the budget figures is an additional $10 billion worth of new spending measures (this shows up in the ‘Contingency Reserve’ which includes figures relating to policy decisions already taken but not necessarily announced).

    This information suggests that explicit spending decisions taken by Joe Hockey at MYEFO contributed far more to the $68 billion budget blowout than the headline table suggests.]

  10. Helen Sykes

    Terrible news, Lindajcla. I notice that your first concern is for your clients and the effect that the change will have on them, but you must be experiencing real shock and fear yourself.
    Take care of yourself.

  11. Edwina StJohn

    Yes showson your very profound, your intellect blows away some of the giants on pollbludger like Mari or pysclops.

  12. zoidlord

    @608

    Your not making much effort yourself EDJ.

  13. ShowsOn

    [Just as we see Andrew Bolt erroneous take Waleed Aly’s interview on The Project totally out of context…]
    This really surprises you? Bolt has been taking things out of context, misrepresenting facts, and presenting misleading graphs on his blog for the best part of 10 years.

  14. WeWantPaul

    Thailand has lots of troubles but having courts with about as much credibility as Abbott must be close to the top.

  15. poroti

    Lordy I am shocked ! Richo asks what’s wrong with pollies taking money from developers.

  16. Centre

    connie @ 606

    Absolutely.

    Milne implied that Gillard broke an election promise by saying there would be no carbon tax and now Abbott was doing the same.

    Can you believe it?

    Leader Lunatic demands that Gillard implements her carbon tax then accuses her of braking a promise for doing so!

    Put them last and fix the lunatics once and for all!

  17. lyndajcla

    Thsnkyou Helen…didn’t think anyone noticed I was here given I’m off topic ( though really on topic) .Good people work for poor pay to support the disadvantaged because they care…BUPA or some other mob are likely to deliver less…so sad…

  18. ShowsOn

    [Yes showson your very profound, your intellect blows away some of the giants on pollbludger like Mari or pysclops.]
    So since you such an intellectual giant can you explain why the government gave a hand out to Cadbury but not Nestle, Lindt or Haighs?

  19. BH

    Dee The clip today looked as tho it was a standup to camera which doesn’t show Bill kn best light.

    Totally agree that we have to fight the ‘bad Labor’ mantra. Can’t bear the thought of a rerun of the Beazley years.

  20. kezza2

    Centre

    [Christine Milne today said “Tony Abbott is having his Juliar moment by braking an election promise”.]

    Okay, let’s have a link for that quote, or are you just making shit up in your endless quest to sink the Greens?

  21. Steve777

    Re Ruawake @613: this “Contingency Reserve” would be amounts set aside for election sweeteners for the next Federal election.

  22. Centre

    I have not heard Labor say a thing in response to the need for the Liberals to fix Labor’s mess.

    HELLO, everyone is going to think Labor left a mess in government and now we all have to pay.

    It’s going to happen, it always happens, it happened with the ETS and now it is happening again!

  23. poroti

    Centre

    [Milne implied that Gillard broke an election promise by saying there would be no carbon tax and now Abbott was doing the same.]
    What a scumbag Milne shows herself to be. Even the front page of the GG just before the election reported Gillard as saying that she did not rule out putting a price on “carbon” if she won the election.

  24. Centre

    I heard Milne say it today.

    When did she say it?

    Who cares, the LOON hypo(crite) said it!

  25. WeWantPaul

    [HELLO, everyone is going to think Labor left a mess in government and now we all have to pay.

    It’s going to happen, it always happens, it happened with the ETS and now it is happening again!
    ]

    You may be right but more than 50% of the problem will be uniformed clowns who ignore ALL the things labor actually says.

  26. p m z

    looks like the worlds most powerful fascist has decided to bestow another brainfart upon the russian public http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/putin-bans-the-f-word-from-movies-and-plays/499530.html

  27. Centre

    Kezza2

    Are you for real?

    Do you think I’d make that up? What a joke, I’ve got better things to do.

    Accept that I am always right about the Greens :kiss:

  28. Edwina StJohn

    Well showsom there won’t be any training grants for the cfmeu that’s for sure..

  29. kezza2

    [lyndajcla
    Posted Wednesday, May 7, 2014 at 8:14 pm | PERMALINK
    Thsnkyou Helen…didn’t think anyone noticed I was here given I’m off topic ( though really on topic) .Good people work for poor pay to support the disadvantaged because they care…BUPA or some other mob are likely to deliver less…so sad…]

    Sorry, I did miss your post. Will you reiterate before I take the wrong meaning from Helen Sykes’ post.

  30. poroti

    [Simon Cullen as @Simon_Cullen Greens Leader Christine Milne says the ‘deficit tax’ will be Tony Abbott’s “Juliar moment” ]

  31. ruawake

    Centre clean your ears out.

    [When Tony Abbott said ‘no new taxes’ there was no asterisk, no fine print.

    The Prime Minister can use all the weasel-words he likes, his new deficit tax is nothing but a deceit tax.

    The deceit tax is a price that working Australians will pay for the Prime Minister’s broken promises and twisted priorities.

    It is a tax grab that puts the politics of a manufactured ‘Budget emergency’ ahead of the welfare of millions of hardworking Australians.

    It is a tax hike to pay for an extravagant paid parental leave scheme for multi-millionaires who don’t need an extra $75,000 to have a baby.

    In the weeks ahead, I’m sure Tony Abbott and Joe Hockey will keep lecturing us about the need for heavy lifting.

    There will be more sanctimony about ‘sharing the pain’.

    Everyone knows that the Liberals desperately want this to be seen as a brave Budget.

    But there is nothing brave about slugging ordinary Australians with an increase in their income tax.

    There is nothing brave about forcing pensioners to wait longer for less.

    There is nothing courageous about taking money from Australian families who feel like they are losing the battle with cost of living. There is nothing brave about deception.

    Keeping promises takes courage, breaking them takes none.

    Standing up for vulnerable Australians takes courage, picking on them takes none.

    Governing for all Australians takes courage.

    Labor is determined to stop Tony Abbot’s deceit tax.

    We want nothing to do with a new tax on the income of ordinary Australians, and we will fight the Government every step of the way.

    Bill Shorten on April 30, 2014]

  32. Centre

    I actually saw Milne say it, I think it was on Sky News.

    Shades of LOON targets being non negotiable 😀

  33. Dee

    [From Chris Bowen, the apparently invisible on PB person, today.]

    I did read it! 🙂

  34. confessions

    Centre:

    Ch10’s Sandra Sully tweeted that from Milne, so she obviously said it.

    [Greens leader Christine Milne says the #debt tax is Tony Abbott’s “Juliar moment” #EyewitnessNews @_AdamTodd]

    F*ck. That is just appalling from Milne.

  35. Centre

    rua

    As I keep saying, if I have not heard Labor defend their management of the budget in their last term in government among accusations that they left a MESS – nor has anyone else whose vote counts at election time.

    FACT!

  36. kezza2

    [Centre
    Posted Wednesday, May 7, 2014 at 8:22 pm | PERMALINK
    Kezza2

    Are you for real?

    Do you think I’d make that up? What a joke, I’ve got better things to do.

    Accept that I am always right about the Greens :kiss:]

    Except for the fact you blew your own shit out your own face by saying to fess that was your take-out message from a Milne interview rather that a direct quote.

    Shoulda known better.

    And so should you, poroti.

  37. mari

    lyndajcla

    I have just logged back on and read your comment, what a terrible thing and to the vulnerable people as well, I was impressed by the fact that your first thoughts are with them not yourself. Perhaps it won’t happen ? Take care.

  38. poroti

    Hilarious. Barn Yabbie lauding Australia’s first export of fresh milk to China. No mention that it was done by the sort of people his Coalition hate . A Cooperative . Well done the 190 farmers from Northern NSW who said feck you to the Rodent era push to get rid of them all.

  39. Centre

    connie @ 638

    Of course she said it, why doesn’t anybody believe me 😥 😆

  40. Dee

    Mari

    How is Schnappi?

  41. zoidlord

    @638

    I don’t see that tweet on Milne’s twitter.

  42. victoria

    Katharine Murphy must be taking the piss

    [With a debt tax now clearly winging its way to Abbotland next week, let’s try just for a moment to look through the entirely reasonable fog of outrage about broken election promises and identify the challenge before the Coalition.

    Right now, the Coalition (well, the leadership at least) is backing itself in something I’d describe as a crude, pure politics transaction]
    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/07/tony-abbotts-chance-to-show-the-courage-of-his-convictions

  43. lyndajcla

    Kezza 2 thanks for asking…my service provides mental health support and today the Vic state gov gave it to a yet unknown provider…a great team of people who go above and beyond to help vulnerable people who will be devastated and grieving…it has been done in the context of the proposed fed NDIS changes which are likely now to be deferred until god knows when…a cruel change for nothing…have to manage worker and client grief when I’m grieving myself… hope that explains some of it…

  44. Centre

    kezza2

    I report it as I saw it 😛

    Referring to Abbott’s lies as Gillard’s Juliar moment (for implementing LOON policy which caused her to brake the election promise on their insistence)…disgraceful!

  45. BH

    Lynda @596

    That is awful news for your people and yourself. Govt farming out again and hurting the most vulnerable is disturbing.

    My thoughts are with you as you try to explain to your clients. ♡♡

  46. kezza2

    [confessions
    Posted Wednesday, May 7, 2014 at 8:27 pm | PERMALINK
    Centre:

    Ch10′s Sandra Sully tweeted that from Milne, so she obviously said it.

    Greens leader Christine Milne says the #debt tax is Tony Abbott’s “Juliar moment” #EyewitnessNews @_AdamTodd

    F*ck. That is just appalling from Milne.]

    And you seriously believe that hasn’t been taken out of context? As a beat up to advertise Ten News? So Murdochian isn’t it. Not Rupe, but Lachlan, learnt at his father’s knee.

    That’s what I mean about today’s journos. We have to go the primary source itself.

    And, if Christine Milne really said that, then I’ll go he. I seriously will.

  47. confessions

    Centre:

    I believe you. Two journos clearly heard her say the same thing and tweeted as such.

    I’m wondering why a woman leader of the Greens would invoke far right shockjock language to attack Abbott by derogatorily referring to the carbon pricing policies Australia’s first woman PM introduced in this country using the name used by Gillard’s opponents to denigrate her, often in highly sexist ways.

  48. kezza2

    [Centre
    Posted Wednesday, May 7, 2014 at 8:35 pm | PERMALINK
    kezza2

    I report it as I saw it 😛

    Referring to Abbott’s lies as Gillard’s Juliar moment (for implementing LOON policy which caused her to brake the election promise on their insistence)…disgraceful!]

    Christ you’re a one-eyed dick.

  49. mari

    Dee 644

    I reported it to the Victorian police today as has Crikey Whitey, nothing has been heard of him since March 21 only thing is the auto follower /unfollower list each day. The police lady was very understanding, you feel stupid no name , only a twitter address and email and he lives in Melbourne, he is ex army , 78 and lives alone, and there is a picture of him on his twitter account. I had to give my name etc and how long I had had contact with him, was not nice I can assure you. I really do have bad feelings about this, my only hope he is in hospital or something and can’t get to the internet. Thank you for asking.

    Problem is I am flying out next week for 3 months, don’t know what else I can do.

  50. Centre

    kezza

    It hasn’t been taken out of context because I saw Milne say it, she gas bagged it at will!

  51. cud chewer

    You know, had the Greens not insisted on a fixed priced period and we’d had an ETS, I believe the Liberals/Murdoch media would have insisted on a “Juliar” campaign anyhow. The moment she said “no carbon tax” on TV, the campaign was set in stone. And ETS would have been misrepresented as a tax.

  52. lyndajcla

    Thanks BH…no one really cares about the mentally unwell…they want to hurt them with changes to the DSP, visits to GPs etc…the emergency departments of hospitals will be impacted by these changes…false economics…the libs pretend we are all well, wasting the doctors time etc…we will all pay a price as a society and yet mental illness affects one in four…I am angry and sad all at the same time…

  53. confessions

    [And you seriously believe that hasn’t been taken out of context?]

    Anything is possible of course. But here we have two journos tweeting the same thing independently of each other, and someone reporting seeing actual footage of Milne making the remarks.

  54. confessions

    mari:

    I thought I saw fleetingly the other day that you reported you’d been in contact with Schnappi.

    Obviously I misread your comment. This does sound serious, unless he’s taken a holiday at short notice and didn’t alert people to his absence.

  55. deblonay

    PMZ 630 re obsenity
    _______________
    I’ve no doubt that many Australian politicians of the past would have strongly approved of that action.re rude words….words never uttered publically in my youth here .. Menzies.Joh..and I suspect many voters would support such actions today if asked …in Qland ..certainly a majority

    a very clever way of getting the religious vote ..rather like the Repubs in the USA would do…the US media is far more conservative than ours ….very prime indeed…I know that from my experience there,,,never a damn ,,,and no way a F==K on US media..yopu’d be closed down for that ..and never a c++t either
    I suspect Putin is a very clever politician He is vastly popular amoing the religious folk ,as the Orthodox Church..once persecuted and banned in Soviet times … is having a great boom in attendence and it must be said like the Catholics they put on great entertainment shows music,costumes,incense,candles the whole lot…that’s why the “Pussy Galore ” girls were so stupid to do what they did in a cathedral…what would happen to such a group here if that occured in St Pat’s or St Paul’s on the main altar..
    ……..

    and the Orthodox Patriach is always there on big occasions in Moscow…it’s an old Russian nationalism returning from the pre-Soviet past…to as place it enjoyed under the Czars

    Try a see this as a clever bit of spin and also an appeal to conservative instincts …how Abbott would fulminate if something happened in a catholic cathedral here …what a chance he would have then

  56. sceptic

    AA @516
    Here is the related article on debt retirement

    http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/trade-ministry-refuses-to-comment-as-agency-report-reveals-indonesia-excused-75m-debt/story-fni0fiyv-1226905221179

    Despit the validity of the act, one could ask …..
    Q…Tony how much will it cost to stop the boats ..
    A…” Only a one off payment of $75 million “

  57. kezza2

    [lyndajcla
    Posted Wednesday, May 7, 2014 at 8:35 pm | PERMALINK
    Kezza 2 thanks for asking…my service provides mental health support and today the Vic state gov gave it to a yet unknown provider…a great team of people who go above and beyond to help vulnerable people who will be devastated and grieving…it has been done in the context of the proposed fed NDIS changes which are likely now to be deferred until god knows when…a cruel change for nothing…have to manage worker and client grief when I’m grieving myself… hope that explains some of it…]

    So sad for you. And where is the magnificent Kennett on this? Out barracking for privatisation of everything not nailed down.

    I cannot understand where the Libs went so wrong with their initial philosophy. They are such evil people now. They don’t care about anything but the bottom line. Slaves to corporates.

    My son told me today that the US Supreme Court has ruled that “money” is “speech” and that as such ‘money’ must have the same freedom in a democracy.

    If he’s right, and I don’t know that he is – because I haven’t seen this mentioned on PB (the fount of all knowledge) – then I despair for any good to help our fellow man that any of us can do.

  58. poroti

    cud chewer

    The thing is the fixed price period was part and parcel of the first scheme under Rudd. Not only but also business wanted it so as to give them time to bed down their systems.

  59. kezza2

    fess
    [But here we have two journos tweeting the same thing]

    What two journos? Where are they from? Sandra Sully tweeting about a fellow journo doing a beat-up?

    centre
    [It hasn’t been taken out of context because I saw Milne say it, she gas bagged it at will!]
    Yeah? Well, give the link buddy.

    Until then, I will reserve judgement, because apart from occasionally winning on the doggies, you’re not much use for anything else.

  60. Dee

    Mari

    Thanks Mari! 🙁

    Mmmm….doesn’t sound good, but he may have decided to have a break. I do hope that is the case.

  61. poroti

    BK

    Saw that the other day and thought it an excellent idea. Stood out because solidarity like that is so unfashionable these days.

  62. Centre

    connie

    Not only that, the carbon tax was Milne’s baby. Labor’s policy was for an ETS.

    Gillard introduces a carbon tax on the insistence of the Greens resulting in a broken promise and Milne now makes reference to her lying (Juliar).

    Kezza

    Get over it, your beloved Greens are even deeper in the gutter than any of them.

    Wear your pony tale from the back of your numbskull, it’s detracting from your vision.

  63. Diogenes

    Fess

    Funnily I have seen a few conservatives say the same thing as Milne.

  64. deblonay

    Roerwar re Katyn
    ___________________
    I don’t know if you realise that the Katyn massacre in Stalin’s times is now admitted by the Russian Govt…and some time ago the polish PM/Pres and many others attended a joint ceremony at the site with major Russian representatives there to

    try to get you mind out the the Cold War mode
    Stalin is dead and the Soviet Union is gone
    ignorance is not really bliss …

  65. confessions

    [What two journos? ]

    Tweets posted on the previous page.

    Go back and read.

  66. Centre

    cud chewer @ 655

    No. Gillard should have told the Greens to get nicked and kept away – far away!

  67. Sir Mad Cyril

    [
    Yeah? Well, give the link buddy.

    Until then, I will reserve judgement, because apart from occasionally winning on the doggies, you’re not much use for anything else.
    ]

    Here you go

    Christine Milne “it is his Juliar moment”

    http://tenplay.com.au/news/national/2014/5/7/taxing-times

  68. confessions

    Dio:

    Of course, it’s all about political point-scoring.

  69. Centre

    poroti

    Don’t make excuses for the Loons.

    The fixed price components of the CPRS and the carbon tax are chalk and cheese. Ask Combet?

    In fact ask Albo and Bowen as well as Combet, they know they’re loons.

  70. BH

    Lynda Mental illness was locked away for so long and kezza is right.

    Where is Kennett now? He should be screaming about the unnecessary vulnerability placed on all of you.

    Is he on Twitter? A few tweets might notgo astray.

  71. mari

    Confessions and Dee

    Mo I am very worried about him and feel so impotent. Also don’t know what has happened to Janice and OPT, seems a long time since either of them posted on PB.

  72. Centre

    Mad Cyril

    Milne said a lot more than that I saw her gas bag it at will on Sky News.

  73. poroti

    Centre

    They may or not be loons but I was at a “carbon conference” where “Vote 1 Combet” explained the scheme at the time and why a fixed price period was necessary.

  74. deblonay

    Re Milne

    I think we all know what Milne meant by”his Juliar” moment
    I find the tut-tutting here very silly

    Only those determined to find any weapon to attack the Greens(and there are some here who hate the Greens more than Abbott…wierd but true )… like Centre and others would quibble about the Juliar statement

    You would have to be dumb or spent some years under rock,not to see what Milne had in mind
    Abbott was the target not Gillard

    She could have prefaced her remarks with a long explanation,but that’s not possible with the media..short and sharp it has to be

  75. confessions

    mari:

    I think Janice comments at Bushfire’s, but it’s been ages since I’ve visited there so don’t know for sure.

    OPT on the other hand is another matter. I’ve been worried about her for months now. She just seemed to disappear, and at a relatively exciting time (election campaign) for a person who comments here.

  76. Yesiree Bob

    ShowsOn@622


    Yes showson your very profound, your intellect blows away some of the giants on pollbludger like Mari or pysclops.


    So since you such an intellectual giant can you explain why the government gave a hand out to Cadbury but not Nestle, Lindt or Haighs?

    That would be because Tiny loves his Crunchie Bars, wouldn’t it ?

  77. mari

    Confessions

    Thanks re Janice, I think the not knowing is the hard part

  78. Centre

    Diogs

    The carbon tax was NOT Coalition policy, it was Green policy.

    And now, Milne is calling Gillard a liar for implementing it!

    How opportunistic and in the gutter are the Greens? 😐

  79. lyndajcla

    BH…we were all gobsmscked when Kennett got the Beyond Blue gig years ago…those of us who witnessed the destruction of so much at his hands…the institutions were closed but the money failed to follow into the new community services..a man so entirely lacking in empathy advocating for the anxious and depressed…but he attracted a lot of money to that cause, perhaps at a loss to other services…

  80. roger bottomley

    Ruawake let me get this straight. The sitting Liberal member for Stafford personally commissions a Reachtel poll that shits all over Newman. Bizarre.

  81. Centre

    Yeah Deblonay you must be proud?

    Milne calling Gillard ‘Juliar’ for introducing her own policy.

    Get out the disinfectant 🙂

  82. Rex Douglas

    I would suggest the context of Ms Milne’s quote was purely directed at PM Abbott’s hypocrisy.

  83. kezza2

    [Sir Mad Cyril
    Posted Wednesday, May 7, 2014 at 8:54 pm | PERMALINK
    Yeah? Well, give the link buddy.

    Until then, I will reserve judgement, because apart from occasionally winning on the doggies, you’re not much use for anything else.

    Here you go

    Christine Milne “it is his Juliar moment”

    http://tenplay.com.au/news/national/2014/5/7/taxing-times%5D

    Thanks Sir Mad.

    Okay, at 2.05 Christine Milne is shown direct to camera.

    She says: “It’s Tony’s Tax. He lied to the electorate before the election

    AND then it cuts to a film of Julia Gillard, while in the background, Christine Milne supposedly intones:

    “It is his Juliar moment . . .”

    We don’t actually get to see her say that, in this context.

    It’s cut and paste all over the place.

    And Christine Milne’s comment ends at 2.10.

    A whole 5 seconds worth.

    You tell me if it’s taken out of context, or been pasted in, or any further comment she had to make to make her point.

    Why do we have to keep relying on tabloid journalism for the truth in our political awareness?

    Shits me to tears.

  84. Steve777

    Christine Milne in my opinion made an error of judgement in using the Jul**r term in referring to Abbott’s lies.

    But the enemy of my enemy is my friend. Abbott is the main game – thuggish oaf, congenital liar, moral weathervane, economic imbecile and foreign policy incompetent – Australia’s least ever PM. May he soon be booted from the national stage in ignominy.

    [end rant]

  85. confessions

    mari:

    I’d love to be able to say it’ll all be okay in the end, but I can’t promise you that. You’ve done everything you can with Schnappi and you just have to leave it to others to follow through.

    None of this is your fault, and none of this is on you. You’ve done your best, and that’s all anyone can ask of you.

  86. deblonay

    Centre you have just completly proved my
    point in my post 679…WOW

  87. Diogenes

    Centre

    I think it’s more Milne saying it will be the same disaster for Abbott that the carbon tax was for Gillard.

  88. Centre

    kezza @ 664

    Give Sky News a call and tell them to post it on the net in its entirety.

    Also, I’m good at other things 😯 I’ll prove it if you insist 😈

  89. BH

    Http//www.ab .net.au/news/2014-05-07/french-law-allows-workers-to-donate-leave/54359682

    BK That’s an excellent idea. There’d be many generous coworkers willing to give up a few days.

    Kezza Just saw Milne’s comment on Sky. Disappointing when it was Milne herself who insisted on the 3year carbon price.

  90. Dee

    Mari

    Last I heard of OPT she was getting the NBN.

  91. deblonay

    Palmer and Milne …both doing well inn the attack
    ______________________
    Today both of the above have really hammered Abbott

    Why is Shorten so ineffective…I know he is hardworking but very dull stuff,,,pity he defeated Albenese who is so much better…but Palmer has been very good and will really damage the Libs..and the Polls show the Greens are still on the rise after W A

  92. Centre

    For heaven’s sake, Milne said that Gillard was Juliar!

    Pine O’Clean, big bottle needed!

  93. confessions

    Centre:

    Milne’s comments were truly awful.

    Why is a Greens leader invoking the language and imagery of misogynistic shockjocks FFS?

  94. mari

    Confessions 691

    Appreciate that tweet really do Crikey Whitey has also been great

  95. Yesiree Bob

    confessions@699

    Centre:

    Milne’s comments were truly awful.

    Why is a Greens leader invoking the language and imagery of misogynistic shockjocks FFS?

    As the third party that will in all likelyhood never see Government, I guess that they think they can get milage out of ultimately attacking the ALP

  96. mari

    Dee 696

    Perhaps getting too many downloads etc then to bother about PB? 😀 , What wouldn’t I do to get NBN, stayed with friends last week who have it Grrrrr

  97. mimhoff

    Put me in the “this is an own goal for Milne” camp.

    She could have used a line that didn’t accept the LNP framing of the carbon tax.

  98. Boerwar

    [deblonay
    Posted Wednesday, May 7, 2014 at 8:51 pm | Permalink

    Roerwar re Katyn
    ___________________
    I don’t know if you realise that the Katyn massacre in Stalin’s times is now admitted by the Russian Govt…and some time ago the polish PM/Pres and many others attended a joint ceremony at the site with major Russian representatives there to

    try to get you mind out the the Cold War mode
    Stalin is dead and the Soviet Union is gone
    ignorance is not really bliss …]

    Oh, I am well aware of what happened in Katyn and the subsequently history wars relating to Katyn and the final admission by the Russians that they were the perps. I have a lifelong interest in Katyn. It fascinates me that you can kill so very, very many people and then get most of the world for many decades to believe that someone else did it.

    My point in reasing Katyn was that pravda, more or less, will come out… even if it takes decades.

    The problem I have with what you write and what you link to is that it always comes out US bad and Russia good. Obama bad; Putin good. It is 100% predictable, regardless of the circumstances and regardless of the events. I invite you to think about your utter predictability.

    I recall being absolutely diddled by Chairman Mao’s Little Red Book – just as generations of lefties were completely and utterly diddled for decades by Stalin et al. I also recall reading about the Gulf of Tonkin incident and again being diddled. The latter was, of course, symptomatic of the way in which the US and Australian governments had pulled the wool overy my eyes. I take some credit for overcoming that, as I overcame the cult managers of the roman catholic church.

    That sort of stuff took me a lot of work.

    I took these lessons seriously. I don’t like being duped by spinmeisters, masters of disinformation, cherrypickers, unicorn herders, and the like. My bullshit antennae on both sides quiver constantly.

    But your bullshit antenna only quivers on the right side. On the left side your bullshit antenna is frozen solid.

    What Tsar Putin is trying to achieve in eurasia has absolutely nothing to do with the cold war as such.

    But it has everything to do with the (only slightly interrupted) historical mission of all Russian tzars: expand the Russian empire.

    If you don’t get that about Putin, you understand absolutely nothing about what just happened in the Crimea, what happened in Georgia before that, and what is about to happen in the Ukraine.

    Here is a little itchy powder for your Putin antenna: a lot of ordinary people who want nothing more than to get on with life will die, will go hungry, and will be displaced as a result of Putin’s historical mission.

    Other players will have blood on their hands as well. But that absolves neither them nor Putin for what is about to happen.

    Comrade, I call on you to come clean on Putin. It would clear the air and restore your credibility on Bludger.

  99. confessions

    mari:

    Go on your holiday knowing you’ve done everything you can to rouse Schnappi.

    Enjoy your time away. If Schnappi is roused and tweeting when you get back, you get first dibs at kicking his arse for being a douche and disappearing when we was all looking out for and worried about him. 🙂

  100. Centre

    [Milne’s comments were truly awful.]

    The Greens have no shame!

  101. mari

    Confessions 705

    Ta I will, looking forward to seeing Croatia as havn’t been before. re Schnappi, do hope I have to kick his arse.

  102. Boerwar

    [poroti
    Posted Wednesday, May 7, 2014 at 8:28 pm | Permalink

    Hilarious. Barn Yabbie lauding Australia’s first export of fresh milk to China. No mention that it was done by the sort of people his Coalition hate . A Cooperative . Well done the 190 farmers from Northern NSW who said feck you to the Rodent era push to get rid of them all.]

    Plus with the help of Austrade, also on the Commission of Audit’s death list.

  103. kezza2

    BH
    [Kezza Just saw Milne’s comment on Sky. Disappointing when it was Milne herself who insisted on the 3year carbon price.]
    Was she actually on camera when she said it, today, or even yesterday, because I recall an interview with Milne not so long ago about Abbott’s broken promises. And in that context she said wtte that if you want to call Julia Gillard’s carbon price a broken promise then that is his Juliar moment.

    So, did you actually see Milne say the words to camera, or as I just saw, when those words were spoken it had a file video of Gillard?

    I did work in newspapers, and I know how easy it is to create a situation where it looks as if something happened that did not. And in televisuals, and multi-media, so much easier to portray something false.

    Steve777
    Posted Wednesday, May 7, 2014 at 9:11 pm | PERMALINK
    Christine Milne in my opinion made an error of judgement in using the Jul**r term in referring to Abbott’s lies.

    But the enemy of my enemy is my friend. Abbott is the main game – thuggish oaf, congenital liar, moral weathervane, economic imbecile and foreign policy incompetent – Australia’s least ever PM. May he soon be booted from the national stage in ignominy.

    end rant]

    Yeah, and also take on board the ability of the msm to use footage and voice-overs to convey a completely different perception of what really happens.

  104. deblonay

    Solution in the Ukraine …make sure 2014 doesn’t become another 1914 …from a Norweagian academic writing in Counterpunch
    ________

    There is an immediate danger in Ukraine which has 15 badly maintained olf nucleur reactors

    They are in a pretty bad way and any crisis like Chernoblyl or Fukishima would be beyond the ability of the weak regime in Kiev to cope with and would bring disaster ,with catastrophic consequences for all of Europe..and the world
    http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/05/06/the-crisis-in-ukraine-2/

    http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/05/06/the-crisis-in-ukraine-2/

  105. Boerwar

    Never get between a Greens and a vote.

  106. absolutetwaddle

    Rex Douglas

    “I would suggest the context of Ms Milne’s quote was purely directed at PM Abbott’s hypocrisy.”

    Of course it was. This is obvious to anyone less insane than Centre.

  107. guytaur

    I see the usual suspects are saying that Senator Milne should not have used the Juliar term.

    Senator Milne correctly identifies the taking up of that as the big slide in Julia Gillards popularity.

    What she says is true. This happened because the likes of Alan Jones propagated this along with the LNP.

    Stating historical fact is not an attack on Labor

  108. Dee

    Mari

    Could be wrong but seem to remember a PBer trying to arrange a hook up with OPT for coffee.

    Not sure if it was Cuppa??, or the chap that played the pubs.
    Gee, they could be one and the same….grrrr….age & memory!

  109. guytaur

    Now that Cabinet has confirmed it the Deceit Tax is in the budget as reported by Mark Simkin on the ABC Labor can use that.

    LNP MP’s have said its a broken promise and makes Abbott a liar.

  110. Yesiree Bob

    Given the way the media is notorious for taking statements and twisting them out of context, one would think that a seasoned political leader, such as Milne, would have thought twice before making that comparison.

  111. Boerwar

    deblonay

    I feel secure in the firm belief that comrade Putin has got it firmly in his mind that, inter alia, he is playing with nuclear fire.

  112. Boerwar

    deblonay
    Why do you think that Putin is objecting to elections in the Ukraine?

  113. Centre

    twaddle

    Did you see the footage on Sky News?

    No, of course not!

    Give them a call and get them to post it on the net in its entirety, then you can see yourself first hand at your delusional best!

  114. confessions

    mari:

    Croatia? Nice. I’m very envious of your travels. I can’t wait to be retired!

  115. DisplayName

    Am I a “usual” suspect? It’s an unfortunate comparison.

  116. guytaur

    “@DrCraigEmerson: “What you’ll get under us are tax cuts without new taxes.” “No excuses, no surprises.” A new levy isn’t a new tax? Very clever, very tricky.”

  117. BH

    Kezza

    It was direct to camera today. Presser was about the debit tax. Milne thinks
    Abbott will wear it like Julia did with carbon tax. His Juliar moment.

  118. absolutetwaddle

    Yesiree Bob

    People stupid or hyper-partisan enough to read an anti-Gillard as opposed to anti-Abbott intention behind Milne’s remark aren’t going to vote Green anyway.

  119. Centre

    Haha, Guytaur now coming into bat for the Mooners.

    Priceless!

  120. Yesiree Bob

    absolutetwaddle @724 Granted, but will they switch their vote from the LNP to Labor ?

  121. Centre

    YB @ 716

    No’p. I got the impression Milne was getting enjoyment out of referring to Gillard as Juliar.

    I’d say Milne does not like Julia at all 😉

  122. sprocket_

    Seems odd that the respected Justice Heydon would open up his Royal Commission with a self confessed fraudster and Asian sex tourist. The cross examination will be withering.

    [THE corrupt former AWU official who has confessed to fraudulently using a slush fund that was set up two decades ago based on advice from his friend and lawyer, Julia Gillard, is set to be the first witness in public hearings of the national Royal Commission into union graft and wrongdoing.

    Ralph Blewitt’s legal associate and adviser, Harry Nowicki, told The Australian today that Mr Blewitt has been asked to be in Sydney on Monday morning for at least a day of testimony at retired High Court justice Dyson Heydon’s Royal Commission.]

  123. guytaur

    Centre

    Tell me. Was I wong that it was Alan Jones that coined the term Juliar?
    Am I wrong in saying the LNP used that term with gusto to propagate their narrative?

    Do try and recognise fact.

  124. frednk

    [
    victoria
    Posted Wednesday, May 7, 2014 at 8:04 am | Permalink

    Morning bludgers

    Just heard report on radio that due to voter backlash and slide in the polls, The deficit levy will only be applied to those earning $150,000 and over. “Facepalm”
    ]
    It is a funny world, Liberals introduce a progressive tax, Labor opposes it.

  125. absolutetwaddle

    Centre

    I’m not denying Milne said it, I’m saying its obvious she referred to Abbott’s Juliar hysteria to underscore his own hypocrisy vis a bus the deficit tax.

    Again, if you think the purpose of Milne’s remark was to make a political attack on an EX Prime Minister that delivered one of the Green’s greatest policy wishes (a price on carbon), then you’re a fucking moron.

  126. absolutetwaddle

    *vis a vis

    Seriously, can we have an edit function already?

  127. DisplayName

    Let’s take the comparison the other way. If you think a “juliar moment” refers to an unwarranted labelling by a bunch of nutjobs, then what does that suggest about Abbott’s alleged lie?

  128. Thomas. Paine.

    [There is an immediate danger in Ukraine which has 15 badly maintained olf nucleur reactors]

    Given they have now found debris from the Fukushima core in Norway…which went via USA… some 10,000ks…I am sure Germany and others are real pleased at the US determination to plunge Ukraine into civil war….and risk..say some of the fighters Saudi Arabia have now sent over….doing some damage to a few of them. The Saudis didn’t mind financing 9/11 I am sure fuking around with a nuclear reactor in crude ways to create more havoc would be just up their ally.

    And I am sure Russia will be happy if one or more of them go up…as though it wont affect them….well some Morons here seem to overlook that fact…..Im sure Comrade Obama is happy the US is a long way away… and maybe are thinking now how they can leverage that to their advantage…

    The NSA must have some good stuff on Merkle for her to keep bending over a barel against Germany’s best interests to help the US in its many decades long policy on Russia..

  129. Yesiree Bob

    Can I just add that I have always thought the pejorative “Juliar” to be extremely offensive and unbecoming of anybody who uses it. No matter the context.

  130. Dee

    Ralph Blewit, I thought was facing allegations of raping his sister.

    [Penelope Lennon has bravely spoken out about the trauma because she was so disgusted, outraged and horrified about her evil brother being considered a font of truth by one side of politics and some in the media.

    Blewitt has returned to Malaysia rather than face these new and chilling claims.]

  131. shellbell

    I would like to see meguire bob come back. His polling predictions have come true albeit a little late.

  132. frednk

    The Green’s success seems to be inversely proportional to Centre’s prediction of their demise.

  133. Thomas. Paine.

    But Im betting Merkle wont be so popular if Germany ends up getting showered in nuclear reactor debris….not as though the can spend the weekend sweeping it up….

  134. absolutetwaddle

    DisplayName

    Interesting question but somewhat moot if you consider the label ‘Juliar’ to be hypocritical in light of recent events surrounding Abbott’s Great Big New (deficit) Tax. That’s obviously the spirit in which Milne intended her remarks be interpreted.

  135. Centre

    guytaur

    And Milne is implying that Abbott like Gillard has lied.

    Gillard has lied, for introducing a policy that the Greens had insisted, according to the Greens.

    So many Greens supporters must be feeling unbearably dirty right now 😐

  136. roger bottomley

    I did not read into Milne’s comment that it was disrespectful to Gillard. She is equating and throwing back in their face the disgraceful comments of the Tories.

  137. Centre

    twaddle

    Go watch the fair dinkum replay and see who the moron is – dropkick 😎

  138. guytaur

    Centre

    You don’t get politics do you. That battle is history the tale is accepted that she lied by the general public thanks to the MSM.

    Now Milne is using their weapon against their appointed one. Only fitting I think. Julia Gillard may have even been cheering

  139. Thomas. Paine.

    And as it turns out Fukushima was melt down on day one as Tepco knew but didn’t tell…and the explosion spread material all over Japan. AND now things much worse and perilous than ever….

  140. kezza2

    You guys are so naive about commercial media.

    If you don’t toe the line, in terms of what your advertiser wants, then you sink.

    And that’s from an owner’s point of view. That’s it, frit. You sink or swim on what you can sell for your advertiser.

    I think, on PB, there has been only two people who have been intimately involved in how print media works. That would be Scringler and me.

    The rest of you have a dewy-eyed view.

    It’s a lot worse in television.

    You know, advertisers sign up for contracts. And if you’re not delivering the goods, they won’t re-sign. And that’s it, frit. End of revenue.

    So, even when you start out to be good corporate citizen you’re soon sucked into the merry-go-round.

    And you start to tailor your business to their end. You lose your integrity and some of your staff walks, because they can’t or won’t compromise.

    And when an co-owner walks, then you know something’s wrong with the system.

    And there has been a lot wrong since the early 1980s.

    As I was a proprietor of a newspaper back then, and I was one of the ones who walked away, but still worked in the industry – all over the spectrum for another 15 years – I can’t say I acted solely with integrity (after all I had a child to raise as a sole parent), I did refuse to agree with some of the stuff that was printed.

    In the end I couldn’t stand the way peoples’ reputations were being besmirched on the flimsiest of allegations, nor could I ignore the corporate influence on the editorial stance.

    So many of the people I know in the industry went on to sell their souls as PR people. Good writers gone.

    And then we get to the ABC. I don’t think Jon Faine is worth $300,000 a year. He’s not.

    These paydays are getting out of hand.

    And I certainly don’t think any CEO of any corporation is worth more than half a million. A year.

  141. absolutetwaddle

    Yesiree Bob

    “Can I just add that I have always thought the pejorative “Juliar” to be extremely offensive and unbecoming of anybody who uses it. No matter the context.”

    No matter the context? Really? So even if I’m using the term ‘Juliar’ solely to point out another’s hypocrisy or stupidity for using the term in earnest that’s unbecoming and offensive?

    That’s ridiculous.

  142. absolutetwaddle

    Centre

    I could watch a replay of Milne’s comments non-stop for the next 10 years and wouldn’t see whatever deranged imputation your fevered brain does. Sorry.

  143. guytaur

    @NeilChenoweth: #ICAC: “Money buys votes.” If Libs $1m black money won votes is $9.6m from Electoral Funding Authority a fraud? http://t.co/LEaawiuADb

  144. Yesiree Bob

    absolutetwaddle@747

    No matter the context? Really? So even if I’m using the term ‘Juliar’ solely to point out another’s hypocrisy or stupidity for using the term in earnest that’s unbecoming and offensive?

    That’s ridiculous.

    Not really, there are ways of referencing that term without specifically mentioning it.

  145. Centre

    twaddle

    Watch it first then make your usual standard nonsense at 748.

  146. frednk

    [frednk
    Posted Wednesday, May 7, 2014 at 9:48 pm | Permalink

    The Green’s success seems to be inversely proportional to Centre’s prediction of their demise.
    ]
    Oops got that wrong, the more Centre predicts the Green’s demise the more successful the Greens seem to be; the Green’s success seem to be proportional to Center’s prediction of demise.

  147. alias

    I need to preface this by saying that I do not condone racial stereotyping in any way, shape or form, however..

    One of the LNP’s most serious emerging image problems (one of many) is that one of their main public faces when it comes to this hardline cost-cutting/ideologically extremist economic policy is Mathias Cormann – a man with a heavy German accent.

    I reckon if a PR/advertising firm was advising the LNP, they would call this a total disaster. There is something viscerally alarming about being told something akin to “za trains vill run on time!” by this chappie.

  148. confessions

    Using the ‘Juliar’ reference infers that Milne thinks Gillard lied about carbon pricing. Why else would she tag that to Abbott given she is saying he lied?

    But after everything she saw Gillard go through at the time why the hell would she choose to invoke reactionary shockjock language, most of it used in sexist references, to refer to one of the major outcomes from the Labor-Greens agreeement?

    It’s very disappointing from Milne.

  149. guytaur

    alias

    Its a cultural subtext ingrained through Hollywood movies.

  150. guytaur

    confessions

    Its an attack on Abbott in language his support base understands using the Jones invented term.

  151. DisplayName

    twaddle, fair enough. You’re saying there is an unspoken “for the sake of argument, let’s assume TA’s attacks on JG were warranted”. That’s a mouthful, so we are left with something short and effective, even if unfortunate.

  152. absolutetwaddle

    Yesiree Bob

    “Not really, there are ways of referencing that term without specifically mentioning it.”

    I’m not a fan of dancing around the English language – even rather unlettered neologism – simply for political reasons. The term ‘Juliar’ has entered the public discourse whether you like it or not, and carries with it a readily understandable meaning, context, imputation and history. It sums up a lot if things that otherwise aren’t worth the effort explaining in say, a press conference or doorstop.

    To that end it’s perfectly acceptable to use the term to succinctly highlight hypocrisy where it exists. This is something Milne understands and you apparently do not. Maybe you’re just easily offended.

    I doubt Julia is crying in her coffee about it though.

  153. Centre

    guytaur

    Do you really think Gillard would have been cheering at Milne’s comments? 😆

    I’d say something along these lines…”you calling me Juliar now? For listening to you? You fruit cake !@#$%^ so and so” 😉

  154. Fulvio Sammut

    Fox movies?

  155. guytaur

    centre

    You just don’t get it. Your loss it means some politics is beyond you.

  156. DisplayName

    Or an unspoken “for those who believe it”.

  157. Yesiree Bob

    Absolutetwaddle

    It’s not about dancing around the English language etc.

    If Ms Milne had have described Abbotts actions WTTE as his “Gillard moment” then her message would have been just as effective

  158. alias

    Guytaur – Absolutely true of course. If I were employed in the LNP image machine, I’d be getting MC voice coaching to strangle that accent out of him pronto.

    On “Juliar”: If Labor is going to capitalise fully on Abbott’s remarkable own goal, then folks here are going to have to get very used to raking back over political history to revisit this episode.

  159. kezza2

    [alias
    Posted Wednesday, May 7, 2014 at 9:58 pm | PERMALINK
    I need to preface this by saying that I do not condone racial stereotyping in any way, shape or form, however..]

    ‘However’ equals ‘but’.

    That’s exactly the same as saying I’m not a racist but . .

    And that brands you as something you are trying to avoid articulating.

    You can understand Cormann, can’t you? So what’s your problem?

    My problem with Cormann is that he’s a right-wing ideologue and espouses policy that I will not support.

    I have the greatest appreciation of those who learn English as a second language (or third or fourth or fifth or sixth) and I think he does a great job at expressing himself in our language but I will not suborn myself to fascist sympathies.

    And that’s why I dislike him and his policies. Not because of his accent. I see enough of his ilk in native speakers like Abbott and Hockey.

  160. confessions

    guytaur:

    Milne was trying to speak to rusted on Liberals with her terminology, and in a way that just might appeal to those voters?

    Seriously?

    Babe, you need to get your head out of your arse with that shit. Seriously.

  161. DisplayName

    However, twaddle and guytaur, if you’re correct then Milne is being a smartarse ;).

  162. alias

    I’m with you entirely Kezza2, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t a problem (another one) for the LNP. As Guytaur noted, this stereotype is hardwired into our brains, all the way from “Don’t mention the war” on Fawlty Towers, right down the popular culture line.

    I’m just saying that folks out there in voterland will find it even more jarring than it already is to hear this stuff delivered in a heavy German accent.

  163. absolutetwaddle

    Yesiree Bob

    “If Ms Milne had have described Abbotts actions WTTE as his “Gillard moment” then her message would have been just as effective”

    I strongly disagree. ‘Juliar’ was a MUCH more appropriate word to use in that context as it immediately brings to mind Abbott standing in front of signs to that effect bitching and moaning about broken promises.

    Milne’s whole point was about hypocrisy. If you dilute the language you dilute the message to the extent it’s meaningless.

  164. Kevin Bonham

    http://kevinbonham.blogspot.com.au/2014/05/budget-blowout-in-coalition-polling.html

    Budget Blowout … In Coalition Polling

    My latest federal polling roundup

  165. guytaur

    confessions

    Take your own advice. Milne is not fighting political battles already lost.

    Accept the reality of the election. Labor lost this one. Calling it Abbott’s Juliar moment is about political consequence not that she is calling Gillard a liar. Just accepting others did

  166. sohar

    No Bob Brown in charge now, sadly. Milne certainly not a worthy replacement. Maybe Ludlum needs to take over.

  167. DisplayName

    confessions, the point is she’s using terms they will understand. Whether or not (she thinks that) those are well constructed terms is another matter.

  168. Fulvio Sammut

    I actualLy think this was a Hissy Chrissy moment.

  169. alias

    On Christine Milne: Centrebet is running a market just now about which leader is most likely to be changed.

    Milne: short-priced favourite at $1.80
    Shorten: $3.50
    Abbott: $4

  170. kezza2

    absolutetwaddle
    [Milne’s whole point was about hypocrisy. If you dilute the language you dilute the message to the extent it’s meaningless.]
    The very essence of what I was trying so unsuccessfully to convey.

    As well as the indecent deceit of the media in blurring the message.

    Well done.

  171. Yesiree Bob

    Absolutetwaddle then on that point we will have to agree to disagree then.
    Referring to the deficit tax as Abbotts “Gillard Moment” conveys to the electorate just how much of a Hypocrite Abbott really is, succinctly and without the need to descend to crassness.

  172. DisplayName

    kezza, in this case I don’t think you can fault the media for blurring anything. For Milne’s comparison to have any sting, it has to be – and in that case is intended to be – taken at face value.

  173. Centre

    [Babe, you need to get your head out of your arse with that shit. Seriously.]

    Classic!

  174. guytaur

    YB

    Say “Gillards Moment” you see that interview intt your head replaying under a government I lead.

    Say Juliar moment you see Abbott in front of signs on Parliament House in your memory.

    At least I do

  175. kezza2

    alias
    [I’m just saying that folks out there in voterland will find it even more jarring than it already is to hear this stuff delivered in a heavy German accent.]
    I’d probably agree with you if not for the fact that, in least in my circle, we had not satirised to the point of saturation the stupidity of branding a nation because of its leaders.

    Just like I won’t want to be called a Abbottist in the future because a certain percentage of the population opted for stupidity rather than the adventure of making society better for all.

    And it has nothing to do with son recently marrying a modern German. 😆

  176. confessions

    [If Ms Milne had have described Abbotts actions WTTE as his “Gillard moment” then her message would have been just as effective]
    WTF? If Milne had’ve called it for what it was, ie Abbott doing that time honoured thing of major parties using their own interpretation of the budget to frame their post election policies, thereby walking away conveniently from their pre election rhetoric, it would’ve had much more salience and relevance than just shrieking Juliar and retreating.

    Milne failed. She needs to wear the consequences of her statements. She went for divisiveness, and it’s disappointing to see GReen shills defending her for her actions.

  177. Steve777

    I think that AT’s interpretation of the U

  178. Centre

    alias

    That is a gimmick market.

    I hope people don’t get sucked into it?

    The house has no leadership change in its favour.

    Still, Milne should definitely go. Ludlum would win easily in a challenge.

  179. confessions

    [Milne: short-priced favourite at $1.80]

    If it ain’t Ludlam who is next in line to be leader then it’s Bandt or the repulsive SHY.

    I choose Ludlam. He’s by far the least hysterical Green in the federal parliament from what I’ve seen.

  180. Tom the first and best

    775

    I would put Abbott as most likely. The Coalition is showing public signs of disunity and leadership dissatisfaction.

    Shorten is unlikely to go anywhere and if he does it will probably be for non-political reasons (illness, death, etc).

    Milne is fairly safe. She is well respected in the Greens. I think that the WA Senate vote has helped her leadership safety as it shows that the Green vote can go back up again under her leadership and most of the drop was minor party competition and association with the previous government.

  181. DisplayName

    confessions, let’s put it another way. She’s holding Abbott to *his* standard.

  182. absolutetwaddle

    confessions

    “Milne failed. She needs to wear the consequences of her statements. She went for divisiveness, and it’s disappointing to see GReen shills defending her for her actions.”

    I’m not a Green shill (or voter, for that matter) and don’t even particularly like Christine Milne. But it’s still obvious to me what she meant.

    Just because I vote Labor doesn’t mean I have to trawl through every Green utterance to find something to take feigned offence at, I’ll leave that to Centre.

  183. guytaur

    confessions

    In time people will see the truth about the lie.

    In the meantime using the lie against them is poetic justice

  184. alias

    Kezza2

    Yes you might be right about satirising that stereotype to saturation point – after all, the “don’t mention the war” scene I mention has been absolutely quoted to death. I would, in fact, be pleased if in fact no one takes exception to the heavy German accent, but I still suspect that at some level, it will be grating – perhaps in particular for older Australians.

    I have nothing but admiration for modern Germany. The way the nation has faced up to ww2 is an object lesson that some others in our neighbourhood would do well to pay heed to.

    I even like the sound of the German language, having learnt it at school.

  185. Steve777

    I think that AT’s interpretation of the the word Jul**r (758) is more on the money than Centre’s (759). I took it as a succinct way of upbraiding Abbott as a liar and highlighting his hypocrisy. But others have a different interpretation so Christine Milne probably should have chosen different words.

    Apologies for my earlier incomplete post. Fat clumsy fingers on this tiny iPhone keyboard.

  186. psyclaw

    I think Milne has been verballed here tonight. Her words should not be interpreted literally. They were spoken in the context of the last 10 days or so of speculations that Abbott was going to implement a lie on budget day.

    In using the words “Juliar moment” Milne was simply referring to the phenomenon of the last 3 years when the media and Abbott combined to expertly build a perception widely accepted by the public that Ms Gillard lied, regardless of whether or not she did lie.

    IMHO it is possible to refer to that phenomenon and to name it as “Juliar moment” without any reflection or consideration as to whether JG’s words were actually a lie, or as to whether later circumstances justified her actions (if indeed her earlier words were a lie).

    Milne was just saying that the high price JG eventually paid for those words, deservedly or not, is a precedent for what will happen to Abbott if the budget ends up as anticipated. The budget, she says will spawn a similar phenomenon …… a lump of 4×2 with which Abbott will be belted by the public for the rest of his career …. and which will in the end characterise his PMship.

  187. Tom the first and best

    785

    I think Ludlam would make a Good leader but I do not think he will run in the near future.

    I think that the next Green leader is most likely to be Bandt as he is the Deputy Leader (like Milne was), He demonstrated an ability to win his seat (Melbourne) in an election not otherwise all that favourable to the Greens and Bandt being leader would mean the Greens had a leader from the HoR like the other parliamentary parties (Liberal, ALP, National and probably soon to be Palmer).

  188. alias

    Agreed on Ludlam, Confessions.

    He comes across as articulate, smart, energetic. That speech he made to an empty chamber that went viral is sensational. Could very well come to define this bleak term of radical government.

  189. Centre

    For heaven’s sake, Milne is saying that Abbott lied just like Gillard.

    Abbott is having a “Juliar moment”.

    Too blatantly obvious for the sane!

  190. kezza2

    [DisplayName
    Posted Wednesday, May 7, 2014 at 10:19 pm | PERMALINK
    kezza, in this case I don’t think you can fault the media for blurring anything. For Milne’s comparison to have any sting, it has to be – and in that case is intended to be – taken at face value]

    Yes, I’d agree with you, except for the fact that the video I have seen does not show Milne saying those words. At all.

    Instead we have her voiceover while showing Gillard.

    I’m not at all convinced Milne said those words at that time. Because I don’t trust the media.

    I have replayed the video more than half a dozen times. It doesn’t seem as if it isn’t seamless. But then again, why would it, when it was so easy back in the day to meld Video 8?

    The only problem is that it cuts to a video of Gillard when Milne is supposedly saying those words.

    Being the cynic I am, I ask why, why would they do that if it was a contiguous interview? They didn’t need more visuals of Gillard.

    And the only reason I can come up with is because it didn’t happen that way.

    It’s a lie. It’s a deceit.

    To me, they’ve cut in something Milne said in another context to make it seem that way today.

    And I know how easy it is to fabricate nonsense about someone you want to fail.

  191. confessions

    [confessions, let’s put it another way. She’s holding Abbott to *his* standard.]

    Jeez, I can hold Abbott to his own standard, and I don’t need to use shockjock references in order to do it.

    Again: Milne failed.

  192. confessions

    alias:

    I’ve long been a fan of Ludlam. He’d be a much better leader than SHY, who seems to be pushing herself within the partyroom.

  193. Tom the first and best

    790

    Remembering of course that Cormann is not actually a German. He is an ex-Belgian (if he had not given up his citizenship he would not be eligible for the Commonwealth Parliament) from the German speaking region Belgium got after WWI as a sort of compensation for its invasion.

  194. guytaur

    “@greencate: It’s not higher taxes that the people are worried about, it’s @TonyAbbottMHR breaking his promise. #lateline”

  195. kezza2

    fess

    [I choose Ludlam. He’s by far the least hysterical Green in the federal parliament from what I’ve seen]

    You haven’t come across Richard Di Natale. Pretty level-headed bloke.

    Not as much of a spunk as Ludlam but a bit more savvy.

    Ludlam will have his day before Probyn.

  196. Yesiree Bob

    Tom the first and best@799

    790

    Remembering of course that Cormann is not actually a German. He is an ex-Belgian

    So is Hercule Poirot, maybe he should grow a twirly mustache ?

  197. guytaur

    “@greencate: Oct 28 2010 @TonyAbbottMHR said: “We stand for lower, simpler, fairer taxes, not great big new taxes” #lateline”

  198. Tom the first and best

    795

    It is generally accepted by the public that Gillard lied. That is unlikely to change as Gillard herself said the price could be called a tax.

    Milne used terminology I would not have advised her to, but it was not an attempt at vilification of Gillard but saying the voters now trust Abbott as little as the trusted Gillard after the carbon policy announcement. It helps create a meme in the media of “the voters do not trust Abbott” and that is good for the ALP (and the Greens as well).

  199. mimhoff

    I for one do not dispute the intention of Milne’s statement was to label Abbott as breaking a promise.

    I even don’t dispute that it could be the most effective way to attack Abbott.

    But, I still feel it is a mistake, with the carbon price repeal coming up, to adopt the LNP framing of said price. Even for a snappy attack at budget time.

  200. mimhoff

    I for one do not dispute the intention of Milne’s statement was to label Abbott as breaking a promise.

    I even don’t dispute that it could be the most effective way to attack Abbott.

    But, I still feel it is a mistake, with the carbon price repeal coming up, to adopt the LNP framing of said price. Even for a snappy attack at budget time.

  201. Tom the first and best

    Further on the Green leadership, SHY is unlikely to be leader.

  202. Fran Barlow

    Fess

    [Why is a Greens leader invoking the language and imagery of misogynistic shockjocks FFS?]

    Oh for pity’s sake. Milne’s comment was on the money. She’s hoisting Abbott on his own petard.

    The ‘juliar moment’ in this context meant a serious political blunder. Gillard’s blunder was to allow carbon pricing to be described as a tax. Abbott’s blunder was to introduce one when he avowed there would be none, and further, that there would be no surprises and no excuses.

    If you can’t see that, I’m astonished.

    While Gillard absolutely was the target of misogyny, the Juliar thing was just political trolling.

  203. guytaur

    “@trafalgar1830: Teresa Gambaro Federal Government LNP Member for Brisbane : ” We didn’t go to the election with … http://t.co/frGSQF1nSc via @RealNewsOne”

  204. Centre

    Tom

    LOL for heaven’s sake.

    She (Milne) was trying to paint BOTH major parties (Juliar) as liars.

    The Loons get into the gutter as good as any of them if the opportunity presents 😐

  205. Nick of Melbourne

    I think people should perhaps agree to disagree about Christine Milne’s comments. Some people don’t mind her using ‘Juliar’, some do. Some think she didn’t say it at all…not sure what further insight or understanding we can come to on this one.

    I think Milne is fantastic at a lot of things, and has done decades of hard work within the party and the movement, but leadership doesn’t suit her. She isn’t so great at connecting with the general populace and offering positive alternatives imo. She would be much better used holding Morrison to account in SHY’s immigration portfolio for example.

    Tom, I agree with you that Adam Bandt is most likely to be the next leader. Makes sense to have a leader in the HoR and Adam is talented and can articulate the positive vision stuff (as can Ludlam).

  206. confessions

    kezza:

    Haven’t had much exposure to Di Natale, but he strikes me as too ‘inner City Melbourne’ to hold appeal around the country.

  207. Nick of Melbourne

    Confessions, Richard Di Natale is from Western Victoria and his office is in Geelong.

  208. William Bowe

    [Remembering of course that Cormann is not actually a German.]

    A Pan-German would say otherwise, although that’s not as popular a creed as it used to be.

  209. victoria

    Sprocket referred to this earlier. This stinks to high heaven

    [Victoria Police, detectives who have been running an 18-month investigation with Mr Blewitt’s co-operation, intend to charge him with fraud-related offences, to which he will plead guilty. He is expected to give evidence against others. is understood that in return for his co-operation and guilty plea, police will make courtroom submissions that Mr Blewitt should not be sentenced to jail.

    Mr Blewitt’s travel expenses for his current visit to Australia are being met by a private citizen who has wanted to see the slush fund issues properly investigated by police and the Royal Commission]

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/corrupt-awu-official-ralph-blewitt-first-to-face-royal-commission-into-union-graft/story-fn59niix-1226908862189#

  210. Nick of Melbourne

    Apologies – grew up in Melbourne, now lives in the otways. I swear I’ve seen a video of him on a family farm somewhere though.

  211. William Bowe

    Mind you, I see they counted the Dutch as well.

  212. Tom the first and best

    813

    He in fact lives on a farm in the foothills of the Otways.

    http://richard-di-natale.greensmps.org.au/about

  213. kezza2

    mimhoff

    [But, I still feel it is a mistake, with the carbon price repeal coming up, to adopt the LNP framing of said price. Even for a snappy attack at budget time.]

    Oh I’m so tired of this.

    Would we even know about it, would it have been worth reporting as a mistake, if the bleeding msm hadn’t fiddled with a videotape?

    And then when you get to the point of asking these questions, you realise just how much we are taken for bloody mugs.

    A minute or so grab of Waleed Aly is enough for Andrew Bolt to take him out of context. And to ridicule him as an Muslim-apologist. When that was not the case.

    A minute or so grab of Christine Milne is enough for a couple of News Ten folk to take her out of context. Enough for her to be portrayed as a Gillard-betrayer.

    What’s going on here?

    We’re being asked to raise our bullshit antenna on high.

    Some of us aren’t up to the task.

  214. confessions

    [Confessions, Richard Di Natale is from Western Victoria and his office is in Geelong.]

    So? None of this is detracting from his uniquely Melbourne appearance. Bandt sports the same look.

  215. Tom the first and best

    814

    We all know why that is.

  216. Darn

    [alias
    Posted Wednesday, May 7, 2014 at 9:58 pm | PERMALINK
    I need to preface this by saying that I do not condone racial stereotyping in any way, shape or form, however..

    One of the LNP’s most serious emerging image problems (one of many) is that one of their main public faces when it comes to this hardline cost-cutting/ideologically extremist economic policy is Mathias Cormann – a man with a heavy German accent.

    I reckon if a PR/advertising firm was advising the LNP, they would call this a total disaster. There is something viscerally alarming about being told something akin to “za trains vill run on time!” by this chappie.]

    I had the same thought myself today when I heard him on the news appealing to Australians to trust the Liberal Party. It was just laughable.

  217. daretotread

    OFFS centre et al

    Terms like, “Honest John”, “Core promises,” Pig Iron Bob, Juliar and I suspect soon Phony Tony have entered the Australian lexicon, like it or not. They are used as short hand to summarise a particular event or issue and people’s response to them.

    Now while I feel that she had little choice, the reality is that due to the effective campaign of Abbott and co Julia Gillard was tagged as having a broken promise over the carbon price. Yes of course it was unfair but that is politics.

    For whatever reason the ALP was never able to sell the CT to the public. Gillard copped the tag Juliar, which I suspect is a schoolyard term that everyone named Julia has copped since they were 6 years old. It was for Gillard a pivotal moment when the public seemed to switch off her

  218. guytaur

    @michellegrattan: Government reaches for the “trust” card again, but who will buy it? http://t.co/SYQzM1L5iL via @ConversationEDU

  219. confessions

    [She (Milne) was trying to paint BOTH major parties (Juliar) as liars.]

    No, I don’t think she was. She was using a shockjock reference to a former PM in order to paint a current PM as somehow equivalent. But we both know it doesn’t work because her own party supported the former yet seems to be opposing the latter. Milne’s choice of terminology is disappointing to say the least.

  220. lefty e

    Well, I do hope the VIC ALP’s going to ante up more on transport. Napthine’s surprised a few by getting on the front foot with promises (admittedly at the expense of Port of Melbourne).

  221. Yesiree Bob

    Just remember peoples that Osama was found in ABBOTTabad

    Make of that what you will.

  222. guytaur

    “@TenLateNews: #Abbott’s debt tax all but confirmed for next week’s budget. Details 11pm #EyewitnessNews”

  223. briefly

    The “Juliar” epithet remains one of the most egregiously offensive terms ever used to describe a PM.

    For a start, the “carbon price” was not a tax, whatever anyone might say of it. Even if it could be construed as a tax, JG did not “lie” about its introduction. The worst she can be accused of is breaking an undertaking. This is not the same as lying.

    Abbott has also broken his undertakings. There’s just no question there’s been a breach of faith with the voters.

    Milne has used Abbott’s breach of faith to revive the outrageous depiction of JG as a liar. It’s obvious that Milne has done so to harvest the anger now being felt about Abbott and to play on hostility to Labor at the same time, but this hardly excuses her. Milne is prepared to be Alan Jones’ echo and, in so doing, to emulate the scurrilous politics-by-defamation practiced by the LNP.

    Milne has proven she is no better than Tony Abbott.

  224. Yesiree Bob

    lefty e@827

    Well, I do hope the VIC ALP’s going to ante up more on transport. Napthine’s surprised a few by getting on the front foot with promises (admittedly at the expense of Port of Melbourne).

    All the ALP need do is match Naptime on transport, with perhaps a few more crossings (Kooyong, Bentliegh, Glenhuntly) to get rid of for good measure

  225. Nick of Melbourne

    Confessions @ 820 – Ok, but I disagree with you. he wears glasses and nice jumpers. So what? I think he speaks well and comes across as compassionate and down to earth. He also had a big hand in Denticare, which is one Greens achievement that almost everyone supports when you mention it.

  226. daretotread

    OFFS centre et al

    Terms like, “Honest John”, “Core promises,” Pig Iron Bob, Juliar and I suspect soon Phony Tony have entered the Australian lexicon, like it or not. They are used as short hand to summarise a particular event or issue and people’s response to them.

    Now while I feel that she had little choice, the reality is that due to the effective campaign of Abbott and co Julia Gillard was tagged as having a broken promise over the carbon price. Yes of course it was unfair but that is politics.

    For whatever reason the ALP was never able to sell the CT to the public. Gillard copped the tag Juliar, which I suspect is a schoolyard term that everyone named Julia has copped since they were 6 years old. It was for Gillard a pivotal moment when the public seemed to switch off her big time and from which she did not recover.

    Kevin Rudd had his pink batts moment, Gillard her CT Juliar moment, Howard had the Chaser boys at APEC moment, Hewson the birthday cake, Keating the recession we had to have, Downer fishnets and so it goes. Each of these “moments” seem to grab the public attention because they do encapsulate a feeling or emotion.

    Rather than dumping on Milne we should be finding Abbott’s moment, and that of Hockey and the rest. Once we have them then the next election is in the bag.

  227. WeWantPaul

    [Victoria Police, detectives who have been running an 18-month investigation with Mr Blewitt’s co-operation, intend to charge him with fraud-related offences, to which he will plead guilty. He is expected to give evidence against others.]

    I have no problem with this if his evidence against others is hard evidence that can be and has been independently verified. If it is just his words smearing other people it is an utter face and a disgrace and we should have an investigation into the police and the relevant ministers at state level where anyone can smear them with an indemnity.

  228. ShowsOn

    [Downer fishnets]
    And “The things that batter”.
    And attending a League of Rights meeting.
    And the weapons for wheat scandal.

  229. WeWantPaul

    [Rather than dumping on Milne]

    She is fair game after the last 8 years … alls fair.

  230. Centre

    connie

    I felt as if Milne was not shy in making reference to “Juliar” for political capital.

    I’d like to see the Sky replay again but I think Milne and Gillard have had their differences.

    *night

  231. Nick of Melbourne

    Poor old fairfax photographers are striking to try to save their jobs whilst Miranda Devine is presumably being paid real money to write…this

    http://blogs.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/mirandadevine/index.php/dailytelegraph/comments/nrl_bosses_are_totally_gay/#.U2oj7tyd2B5.twitter

  232. confessions

    briefly:

    Totally agree with you. Milne stuffed up big time.

  233. confessions

    Centre:

    The Greens are playing populism.

  234. taylormade

    Received the following email from – vic.alp.org.au

    “Will you join our Community Action night on Friday and make 30 calls to tell people what the Liberals won’t?”

    How would the vic alp have my name and email address ??

    If I signed a petition banning gill net fishing in Corio Bay by ex MP Darren Cheeseman, would this be the cause I wonder ?

    Do not like this at all.

  235. Nick of Melbourne

    Lefty e – I hope the Vic ALP pull their finger out on transport too. I can’t believe they’re not promising the Doncaster train line. Firstly, it would provide such a clear point of difference to the Libs EWLink. Secondly, it would win them the election in a heartbeat. Nuff said

  236. kezza2

    [briefly
    Posted Wednesday, May 7, 2014 at 11:02 pm | PERMALINK
    The “Juliar” epithet remains one of the most egregiously offensive terms ever used to describe a PM.]

    Women will remember it, long after the fucking blokes who think they’ve had the last laugh, will.

    As I keep saying, if Milne actually said that today, then they would have shown it. But they didn’t. They cut it from somewhere else, some other answer she gave to an entirely different question. And then had the nerve to play a clip of JG with a voiceover.

    Ask yourself why they did that. It wasn’t to get rid of JG, they’d already done that. It was to get rid of Milne as a leader of the Greens. To make Labor hate her.

    And it works very well with a few people on here. Just imagine how it plays Australia-wide.

    That’s propaganda.

  237. Nick of Melbourne

    taylormade – respond to the email, ask them where they got it, and ask them not to recruit you again.

  238. briefly

    kezza, I did hear Milne on ABC Radio news at 7.00 pm tonight using the term. I could hardly believe it.

  239. WeWantPaul

    [ To make Labor hate her.]

    She doesn’t need the media to help to make labor supporters hate the greens, the greens did that for themselves.

  240. Bugler

    leftye,

    [Well, I do hope the VIC ALP’s going to ante up more on transport. Napthine’s surprised a few by getting on the front foot with promises (admittedly at the expense of Port of Melbourne).]

    I just came back from the first campaign meeting for the new ALP candidate for my electorate and that issue ranked highly. The “Get Home Safe” policy (or whatever it’s called) is a real winner IMHO, though no doubt it would win the youth vote who, I guess don’t need to be won. I saw something the other day from the candidate for Prahran, Neil Pharaoh (who I think was a convener of Rainbow Labor) running a strong campaign along these lines.

    Because Labor released these policies, as well as the removal of 50 level crossings and the metro rail, somewhat early in the piece, the Liberals have merely tried to neuter them with their pathetic “alternative” that takes place sometime in the nether-nether. It has the policies, I guess it’s a matter of selling them, and Andrews doesn’t seem to struggle to get favourable media coverage.

    Personally, I think for the Liberals, it’s too little, too late for it to be effective. Even if they resolve the industrial disputes with the firies and the paramedics before the election, there’s still the impression of one dispute against public sector workers after another their whole term. Same with transport, I think it’s been a big issue for so long people simply aren’t going to forget and trust that these projects are going to go ahead as they say just before an election

  241. daretotread

    Briefly

    It is late and I am for sleep but like it or not the carbon tax was a TAX. Gillard was actually being quite sensible in admitting this BUT sadly the PR fall out was terrible. I have many criticisms of JG but this is NOT one of them, although sadly she unfairly copped a heap of c**p over it.

    The CT was a tax for 3-4 years because it was a fixed levy on carbon dioxide equivalent emissions, levied on a subset of businesses. Now certainly the intention was to shift eventually to a Price set by trading but during the time it operated the CT was a tax, like it or not. Registration fees are taxes, so too are licences. Of course there is a solid component of user charge in some of these fees but they are still taxes.

  242. imacca

    [ But, I still feel it is a mistake, with the carbon price repeal coming up, to adopt the LNP framing of said price. Even for a snappy attack at budget time. ]

    Agreed. I think Milne has trouble thinking strategically. She is a bit quick to go the shrill harangue for a short term relevance hit. Something along the line of:

    “The Carbon Price was never a Tax. Tony’s? This is a Tax”

  243. kezza2

    [taylormade
    Posted Wednesday, May 7, 2014 at 11:10 pm | PERMALINK
    Received the following email from – vic.alp.org.au

    “Will you join our Community Action night on Friday and make 30 calls to tell people what the Liberals won’t?”

    How would the vic alp have my name and email address ??

    If I signed a petition banning gill net fishing in Corio Bay by ex MP Darren Cheeseman, would this be the cause I wonder ?

    Do not like this at all.]
    Had a call the other night from Amnesty.

    Same thing. But I refused to answer any questions until I was told how they’d gotten my number.

    Turned out I’d signed a petition (UN Human Rights generated).

    On the other hand, I don’t subscribe to Fairfax, but read all of BK’s links each morning (thanks BK) but also got an email from Fairfax telling me how much they appreciate my clicking on their links.

    How’d they know it was me?

    Wish I hadn’t deleted it now, else I would be giving them my two cents regarding sacking 70 folk today.

  244. daretotread

    Kezza

    I just do not see why everyone gets so upset about a schoolyard play on a name. KRudd was just as offensive and the Mad Monk (which I use) is more offensive. Prissy Pyne which I also use is far more offensive and politically incorrect than Juliar, and Truzzzzzz, Barnyard, Mad Katter are similarly mildly offensive plays on names.

    However where I will agree with you is over the appalling “at home with Julia” show which was a sexist travesty.

  245. kezza2

    WWP
    [She doesn’t need the media to help to make labor supporters hate the greens, the greens did that for themselves.]
    You’d be credible if the Greens had gone backwards in polling. But they haven’t.

    Why do you bother persisting in this nonsense? Is it to convince yourself?

  246. deblonay

    Confessions “uniquely Melbourne Appearance ” re di Natale
    __________________________________
    What on earth does that mean ????

    I’ve lived here for 40 years and I have no idea what you mean buy that phrase”Melbourne appearance”

    BTW It seems that di Natale handled the Morwell fire/smoke crisis very well
    I have friends in the La Trobe Valley they were impressed as he spent a lot of time there during the smoke-crises and a gave a great address to a packed local meeting that was much comented on locally and may ensure a good Green vote in an area where the Liberal held seat of Morwell may be a problem for them,with a Labor win possible with Green prefs . Labor has held the seat in the past,but the area has changed with the de-industrialisation since Kennett

  247. ShowsOn

    [You’d be credible if the Greens had gone backwards in polling. But they haven’t.

    Why do you bother persisting in this nonsense? Is it to convince yourself?]
    Nah, he is right. The Greens are farquing hopeless.

  248. Nick of Melbourne

    +1 to deblonay @853. He’s a good Senator who happens to wear glasses. I don’t think that’s alienating to middle Australia/working families/battlers, whatever you wanna call em

  249. kezza2

    briefly
    Posted Wednesday, May 7, 2014 at 11:14 pm | PERMALINK
    kezza, I did hear Milne on ABC Radio news at 7.00 pm tonight using the term. I could hardly believe it.]

    Yeah. I’ll probably hear it later on, too. Because I always listen to NewsRadio overnight. And when I hear something shocking I come to PB for confirmation.

    And then try to track down a primary source.

    But, I will be well armed with the evidence I have tonight. And I won’t believe it.

    Because there’s absolutely no evidence she said it in the context of which she’s been quoted.

    I would have believed it if the videotape hadn’t cut to JG while she was saying it.

    She must have been wearing something different for them to do that or they would not have cut her vocalisation at that point. I know it. I know how it works.

  250. Nick of Melbourne

    Perhaps Richard sometimes wears a hat that says ‘latte sipping elite’ in big letters on it that I haven’t seen though. Goodnight everyone

  251. deblonay

    Nick of Melbourne but are glasses “uniquely Melbourne”

    short sight is commin in Perth.Cairns and wherever in OZ surely

  252. Bugler

    Deblonay,

    [Labor has held the seat in the past,but the area has changed with the de-industrialisation since Kennett]

    There was polling that indicated Labor would win the seat. However, even if we ignore the accuracy of local-level polling, I doubt they’d win it, personally. In the eastern suburbs we suffer a similar problem to many rural areas of pockets of “left” support surrounded by a sea of conservative support, odd towns like Moe against the vast ballast of rural conservative vote. It’s why there’s only one Labor seat in the east past Richmond, whereas, given their own seats, Healesville, Warburton and the general Belgrave/Mt Dandenong area would yield Labor members. Unfortunately, the cards don’t fall that way and we just have to deal with it

    (Labor is putting significant resources into Ringwood, and I think Bayswater as well, though)

  253. Rossmore

    Re the upcoming VIC election. There is a kind off dissonance out there in the community that a first term LNP Gov could lose. Despite the polls there is a view that the LNP can claw back the polling deficit. It’s eerily like the last State election when the popular sentiment was the ALP would win easily, understandable given the ALP were in a far better position polling wise than the current LNP Gov. People seem to be discounting the current polls as unreliable. But not from the LNP whose rushed, cash splash State Budget reeks of panic.

  254. mimhoff

    Nothing wrong with lattes! We’re not in the US where Starbucks is some fancy new elite thing, we’re in Australia, where real coffee is readily available.

  255. kezza2

    deb
    [. . . “uniquely Melbourne Appearance ” re di Natale
    __________________________________
    What on earth does that mean ????]

    It means the rest of the states and territories of Australia, in the minds of Perthites, are still not over Marvellous Melbourne.

    You know how Melbourne paid for everyone in Australia back in the day, before Sydney and NSW decided to become self-sufficient.

    And then Melbourne and Sydney had to support the rest of Australia.

    The outer colonies can forget. Except for WA. They’re still stinking mad at what they thought was neglect, and they’re feeling a bit swank now. Think they can stand on their own two feet, and they’re mean and nasty.

    And don’t want to give a dime to anybody else. Because, of course, they felt abandoned due to lack of communications, and didn’t feel they were being looked after. And they’re not fucking going to help out anybody else now.

    He he he.

    Ah, sibling rivalry. The baby has something to say, even if it can’t find an aircraft. And the inner-city is turning to shit while the miners are getting wealthy.

    Say, when did that happen to Marvellous Melbourne?

    Isn’t history grand. And doesn’t it have a habit of repeating itself.

  256. Bugler

    [Nick of Melbourne but are glasses “uniquely Melbourne”

    short sight is commin in Perth.Cairns and wherever in OZ surely]

    We dress like we’re the non-fictional home of House Stark. Long, dark coats are very popular if heading to or if you live around the city. We dress darker than other capitals, I think, especially now Winter is Coming. Just my impression, I do think there is a “Melbourne look”, but whether my impression of it and confessions’ are the same, I’m not sure.

  257. Rossmore

    Nice to see VIC ALP candidates out in force at railway stations this morning the day after the State Budget Encouraged to hear their messages about rebuilding TAFE – although I hope they remember the rot started under the last State ALP Gov with its stupid embrace of private TAFE providers and market competition.

  258. Thomas. Paine.

    I liked Rat or the Lying Rodent as well…good names matching the character of the person.

  259. WeWantPaul

    [You’d be credible if the Greens had gone backwards in polling. But they haven’t.]

    ROFLMA – so the greens are just like Tony at the last election lots of lies and great polling … what a stupid stupid stupid defence

  260. Bugler

    Rossmore,

    [Despite the polls there is a view that the LNP can claw back the polling deficit.]

    It’s hard to see. Non-political people are openly critical of the state Government’s actions, and I think the current dispute with the paramedics and firefighters is hurting them bad (especially as they have both made campaigns personal, directed at Napthine), and people wouldn’t have forgotten the past disputes with the nurses, police and teachers

  261. Fran Barlow

    DTT

    [It is late and I am for sleep but like it or not the carbon tax was a TAX. Gillard was actually being quite sensible in admitting this BUT sadly the PR fall out was terrible. I have many criticisms of JG but this is NOT one of them, although sadly she unfairly copped a heap of c**p over it.]

    It was not a tax, and Gillard’s blunder was very serious. I was astonished at her intellectual lapse here.

    Abbott’s blunder here puts Gillard’s into the shade. Gillard has since admitted her blunder, but this levy stands in stark contrast to a key Abbott claim — that only the ALP and Greens would introduce new taxes and that mere management of waste could get the surplus back. Abbott is not running a minority government and he did say ‘no surprises, no excuses’.

  262. WeWantPaul

    [It was not a tax, and Gillard’s blunder was very serious. I was astonished at her intellectual lapse here.]

    It wasn’t an intellectual lapse it was a lapse about lying and fighting lies, and she was so far behind Tony and the greens with lies on this issue she didn’t stand a chance whatever she did. I thought you were smarter than to type a sentence like that.

  263. ShowsOn

    [It was not a tax, and Gillard’s blunder was very serious. I was astonished at her intellectual lapse here.

    Abbott’s blunder here puts Gillard’s into the shade. Gillard has since admitted her blunder, but this levy stands in stark contrast to a key Abbott claim — that only the ALP and Greens would introduce new taxes and that mere management of waste could get the surplus back. Abbott is not running a minority government and he did say ‘no surprises, no excuses’.]
    Well if the Greens weren’t so farquing hopeless they would’ve helped Gillard out, such as allowing the carbon price shift to an ETS before the 2013 election.

    But instead sometime between July and September Australia will end up with new credible carbon emission reduction policy.

    Thank you very much Greens.

  264. deblonay

    Hit the poor
    _________________
    In the USA Republican Paul Ryan(Rep) who was VP candidate to Romney at the last Elections…calls for cuts in Food Stamps …for the really destitute….and an end to Obamcare and other forms of health benefits for the poor

    He is the son of a millionaire

    US report from “Informed Comment”

  265. Bugler

    Rossmore,

    TBH, one of the major campaigns for the ALP out here is “Only Labor will bring back Lilydale Swinburne”, but, even as someone who’s had a bit to do with said institution, I’m not convinced of it as a policy. There’s a Swinburne in Croydon and Wantirna. I feel political energy and resources may be better directed towards things like changes and funding of VCAL.

  266. Bugler

    [It was not a tax, and Gillard’s blunder was very serious.]

    I’m not sure. I can understand why she did it, so they didn’t spend an interview discussing semantics. I know it’s a decision I would have made. She underestimated the media, but I think everyone did. I wouldn’t have thought that the media would spend a week discussing a sandwich found in her general proximity on the ground of a HS, but they did, as though it was actually interesting, relevant and important.

  267. Socrates

    Ah Queensland, perfect one day, home of two warring ego-maniacs the next. This will be fun.
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-05-07/palmer-serves-newman-with-defamation-writ/5436502

  268. deblonay

    Kezza Two post 862..Brillianjt comment spot on re Marvellous Melbourne
    _________________
    I find the WA attitude really crass .
    I recall when they and Qland were called “mendicant states” and had the seat out of their pants
    WA is by far the worst I think

    It’s a pity they joined the Federation,as many there wanted to be seperate at the time of Federation

    In reality they could not afford to be

    They would have had trouble funding themselves in such a remote and thinly peopled state ..let alone funding defence needs…so we have all paid up big over the years for them

  269. kezza2

    [daretotread
    Posted Wednesday, May 7, 2014 at 11:21 pm | PERMALINK
    Kezza

    I just do not see why everyone gets so upset about a schoolyard play on a name. KRudd was just as offensive and the Mad Monk (which I use) is more offensive. Prissy Pyne which I also use is far more offensive and politically incorrect than Juliar, and Truzzzzzz, Barnyard, Mad Katter are similarly mildly offensive plays on names.

    However where I will agree with you is over the appalling “at home with Julia” show which was a sexist travesty.]

    I have never said that “At Home with Julia” was a sexist travesty. In fact, I think Julia Gillard was fair game for satirists.

    And I actually thought, at times, it was okay. I wasn’t even particularly upset about screwing on the flat. But then I’m not a monarchist.

    However, I could scarcely believe my father’s hysterics at KRudd. Get it, kezza? Umm, yeah. Gosh you’re so original, dad. Who’d have eva thoughta that. Well done, papa. Yes, dad, he’s a piece of shit aka crud. Where’s the belt? Wash yo mouth.

    Mad Monk. Oh please. How unoriginal to give a moniker like monk to an ex-seminarian. Pretty lame. And he was/is stupid/crazy. I get it. He’s mad. He’s a mad monk.

    Prissy Pyne. Well, what’s wrong with prissy? Bit stuck-up and bit of a stickler for convention. I think Prancing Poodle is a bit more of a sophisticated put-down. Why? Cos it just encompasses his characteristics a bit more than the boarding school label of ‘prissy.’

    Truzzzzzzzzzzzz is clever. Because he’s boring.

    Barnyard speaks for itself. Also clever because it can mean Joyce can be at any instant portrayed as the worst aspects of any given animal.

    Mad Katter. Well, I would have thought Mad Hatter, or Cat in the Hat, or whatever. Funny. Slow.

    Even Gil-LARD wasn’t too bad, bad taste, but still within the realms of beatupcracy.

    But Juliar. JEW-LIAR. Nup. Never was funny. Never was clever. Never was a play on words. Just outright offensiveness. And it wasn’t true.

    All the rest had an element of truth or something one could deduce. But JEW and LIAR as a tag. That was utterly offensive all over the shop.

    And worst of all, not one male or female, on either side of the house, nor one Jew, male or female, on either side of the house, came out to defend Julia Gillard.

    That was the most offensive to my mind.

    And, I knew then she would never win the next election.

  270. Puff, the Magic Dragon.

    Everyone underestimated the sheer bloody-minded disgusting sexism of the political and media classes. People did not have to swallow it whole, or join in the witch-burning, but they did. I do not think anyone could have foreseen just how nasty this country became. It is easy to say in hindsight this or that should not have said or done. How could anyone know that everything male Prime Ministers have done since the dawn of time would be taboo for a female Prime Minister?

    But we know now and when the ALP puts up the next female PM )because there will never be a LNP one) we will know what to expect and be ready for it.

  271. Socrates

    [Well if the Greens weren’t so farquing hopeless they would’ve helped Gillard out, such as allowing the carbon price shift to an ETS before the 2013 election.]
    I would agree that Gillard badly needed help in selling policies (and policy implementation, as she proved in education) but it was not the Greens job to do that. A bit late now anyway, as she has become an academic. Turns out you do not need a PhD or research track record after all.

    Rather than bicker with each other, I’d rather see both Greens and Labor leaders rip the very flimsy justifications for the Liberals budget cuts to shreds, and do it in public.

    They both need a media performer who cuts through. I hope Scott Ludlam has a go for the Greens. I hope Albanese does so for Labor. I know Shorten has made statements, but he is no Paul Keating in terms of ability to come up with memorable one liners. Just as Tony Abbott is a less charismatic version of John Howard, if that were possible.

  272. davidwh

    Abbott’s alleged tax lie is not a lie at least until next Tuesday. There is still time for a backdown even if it’s unlikely.

  273. ShowsOn

    [Abbott’s alleged tax lie is not a lie at least until next Tuesday. There is still time for a backdown even if it’s unlikely.]
    Well all the talk is that the budget was finalised today, because the documents have to be sent to the printers by late tomorrow.

    And if you heard Mathias Cormann’s press conference, which he attended after a cabinet meeting, it was pretty clear there will be an income tax increase of some sort in the budget.

  274. WeWantPaul

    [Abbott’s alleged tax lie is not a lie at least until next Tuesday. There is still time for a backdown even if it’s unlikely.
    ]

    It is merely the last lie on a pile of lies.

    He lied that Labor were mishandling the budget, that a surplus was easy and could be achieved without any tax rises and in fact could easily be achieved sooner with two tax cuts. It was a fraud on the public and a disgraceful one.

    He lied that the budget was in a bad state similar to the worst budgets in the world. It was such a stupid lie that no intelligent person believed him. it was such a stupid lie that on coming to power based on his deliberate and disgusting fraud he and Hockey had to create a fake worsening of the budget to try and support their lie. they then had to lie about this lie. No greater cowardice and dishonesty have we ever seen in public life in Australia.

  275. Socrates

    Having let the statute of limitations expire before charging any major US banking executives over the GFC, US attorney general Eric Hodder must be going for a comedy career with this empty lie.
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-05-06/no-banker-too-big-to-jail-says-us-attorney-general/5434342

    Night all.

  276. Puff, the Magic Dragon.

    Kezza.
    The way prominent groups and people laid low and said nothing over what was done to PMJG will remain a stain on this country for decades to come. It was shameful in the extreme and I feel disgust when I think of those who joined in.

    I picked up the Jew-Liar thing: I wonder if the exaggerated nose drawings in cartoons tapped into this.

    I certainly identified the racism in Abbott using the liar and ‘welsher on their word’ memes which are applied in particular to Welsh people by the English. I believe Abbott, as an Englishman who was tertiary-educated in England, knew exactly what he was saying, as did Julia.

  277. Socrates

    Davidwh
    [Abbott’s alleged tax lie is not a lie at least until next Tuesday. There is still time for a backdown even if it’s unlikely.]
    if Abbott does introduce a new tax or levy in the budget next week, would you agree then that he has lied?

  278. Puff, the Magic Dragon.

    Next Tuesday night should be a hoot. I don’t know whether to be angry or just shrug my shoulders saying that the Australian people asked for it. But then again, about half of them didn’t.

  279. Puff, the Magic Dragon.

    Maybe I should just pour a large glass of sherry and sit back and weep.

  280. Fran Barlow

    PtMD

    The word Welsh, for the people from Wales, has a very long xenophobic/racist history.

  281. WeWantPaul

    [if Abbott does introduce a new tax or levy in the budget next week, would you agree then that he has lied?]

    Any credible person wouldn’t have even raised the ‘he hasn’t lied’ farce, it is hilariously stupid, so no he wont be talking about the 1000th Abbott lie after having missed the first 999.

  282. Puff, the Magic Dragon.

    DavidH
    Whatever Abbott does in the Budget, he would have lied. Every option open to him involves him not just breaking a promise but telling an outright lie. That is because his whole campaign to get into government was based on falsehoods and lies.

    I believe it is called painting oneself into a corner.

  283. Thomas. Paine.

    Eric Hodder aptly named, a place holder AG. His role to ensure no prosecution of the favoured ones takes place.

    Just as the head of the SEC and CFTC are captured rodents whose entire responsibility it is to allow continuous manipulation of markets. Normally when they finish their stints in these regulatory roles they find themselves in multi million dollar jobs with a bank somewhere.

    I am sure place Holder will get well looked after as well.

  284. Puff, the Magic Dragon.

    Fran,
    I do not know what the correct term is for the people, but I know Wales is Cymru.

    I know what Abbott was doing, and it shows what a total bastard he really is, a sexist and racist one at that.

  285. Fran Barlow

    Bugler quoted me:

    [It was not a tax, and Gillard’s blunder was very serious.]

    Then added:

    [I’m not sure. I can understand why she did it, so they didn’t spend an interview discussing semantics.]

    There are two things wrong with this.

    1. It wouldn’t have been mere semantics. The. MPCCC was readying to consider ways of pricing emissions. Gillard had ruled out a tax, by which she meant something like the G&ST or some other levy.
    2. Had she spent ten minutes explaining why it ought not be called a tax she’d have had ten minutes to put her case for pricing carbon when she still controlled the agenda, rather than immediately surrendering it to Abbott and Murdoch. This was a massive own goal. She was going to be called (unfairly) a liar, and here she was offering grist to the mill. She regretted this later, but I knew immediately that people like me were going to have to spend an enormous amount of time arguing ‘semantics’ when the regime could not. I lost track of the number of times some fool at the ABC would quote Gillard to me and say that this made them entitled to call it a tax. I could only respond that it was the job of journalists to pursue truth rather than accept the spin of politicians! Some of them gasped at that long enough for me to put the argument that Gillard should have.

    [I know it’s a decision I would have made. She underestimated the media, but I think everyone did.]

    I didn’t and neither did my fellow Greens. Unlike many ALP folk at the time, we were scandalised at her gaffe.

  286. Kevin Bonham

    kezza2@877

    And, I knew then she would never win the next election.

    Hang on there – aren’t you the one who was so dogmatically pronouncing at a certain stage (not long before she was rolled) that Gillard would beat Abbott, that I asked if you would put something behind it by quitting PB if Abbott beat her?

    (I do confess that that challenge – which was accepted – was inspired by my admiration for Andrew Elder’s guts in saying he would quit blogging if Abbott became PM. Admiration that of course completely disappeared after he didn’t go through with it, especially given that he goaded many journalists for failing to match his “commitment”.)

  287. fredex

    Re Milne and Juliar
    Some history first.
    1.Before the election – by just one day – of 2010, Gillard specifically stated that she did not rule out an ETS scheme – which was essentially what she delivered later. That is on the record – in The Australian no less. Technically it was not a tax and technically she did not lie. Technically – but that is really just semantics and there was no doubt there was a backflip.
    But circumstances after the election were – very obviously – dramatically different to pre 2010. The hung parliament scenario should have granted her a lot of slack.
    Nevertheless the opposition, namely the media – it was, always the media that was the main opposition to Gillard and Rudd governments – jumped on the word ‘tax’ remorselessly and Abbott rode it along well after its political impact should have disappeared.
    When you compare the stream of porkies that emanated from Abbott and other Libs to hang the charge of Juliar on Gillard was just plain injustice.
    Par for the course.

    2.The media often cuts, slices, takes out of context and distorts the words of politicians they don’t like to create poor impressions.
    The Greens’ Bob Brown was the victim repeatedly of such cheap tricks , on one occasion the Australian actually changed the wording of a public letter he wrote to create a false impression.
    I don’t trust the media.

    3. When they cut and slice video interviews, as in this current case, I would not trust the media to present spoken words in true context.
    4, I note that Milne has used the works ascribed to her but I note that video immediately stops.
    What came next?

    Well maybe something that alters the interpretation that has been placed on it by several here.
    And maybe not.
    And if not then I, as a greens supporter and a supporter of Milne in particular, would be disappointed in Milne.
    Because Julia Gillard never deserved the tag she got nor the vehemence and vitriol with which it was used and whilst Abbott well and truly deserves to be labelled as lying, not just on this occasion but many previous, Gillard, whilst no saint, should not be placed in the same category as Abbott.

    I would love to see the raw footage of that interview.

  288. Bugler

    Fran,

    It’s not that I don’t understand the argument or think its invalid, I merely don’t agree with it. I rather doubt had she argued the point it would not have still been labelled a “lie”. But, I don’t accept a lot of things spouted about “the lie”, for example that a significant amount of people (or even anyone, for that matter) voted for Labor purely because she stated she intended to implement a carbon price/ETS but ruled out a carbon “tax”. The entire premise on which the whole attack was based was absurd and assumes so much for it even to begin to be plausible. It’s indicative of all the wasted energy in the media and political circles talking about nothing. It’s infuriating. I honestly do not understand why virtually none of the media (or some in Labor) for 3 years actually wanted to talk about whether it was a good policy or not.

    Anyway, heading off to bed. I may post a more coherent response after work tomorrow should you require it 🙂

  289. kezza2

    [Kevin Bonham
    Posted Thursday, May 8, 2014 at 12:48 am | PERMALINK
    kezza2@877
    And, I knew then she would never win the next election.
    Hang on there – aren’t you the one who was so dogmatically pronouncing at a certain stage (not long before she was rolled) that Gillard would beat Abbott, that I asked if you would put something behind it by quitting PB if Abbott beat her?

    (I do confess that that challenge – which was accepted – was inspired by my admiration for Andrew Elder’s guts in saying he would quit blogging if Abbott became PM. Admiration that of course completely disappeared after he didn’t go through with it, especially given that he goaded many journalists for failing to match his “commitment”.)]

    Kevin,

    Hell yeah.

    In fact, when I said no one supported Gillard, I should have qualified that by saying one did, “me.”

    And I did all the way.

    I wanted her to beat the blatant misogyny so much; a faint heart never won a fat turkey.

    You’re right. I didn’t have my fingers crossed behind my back.

    So, you want me to resign from PB? Just like Elder couldn’t believe Abbott would win and Elder said he would resign? and then reneged?

    I guess I’m reneging. But then I never claimed not to be a liar.

  290. kezza2

    [Puff, the Magic Dragon.
    Posted Thursday, May 8, 2014 at 12:17 am | PERMALINK
    Kezza.
    The way prominent groups and people laid low and said nothing over what was done to PMJG will remain a stain on this country for decades to come. It was shameful in the extreme and I feel disgust when I think of those who joined in.]

    Hey, don’t stress. We worked hard. Copped a lot of flak, here and abroad, even from Labor supporters. Which was the most shameful, in my book.

    I can excuse the ignorant, but not those in the party.

    I don’t think I’ll see gender equality in my lifetime, but there’s hope if my boys and their friends have anything to do with it.

  291. ShowsOn

    There’s already 3 Liberal Senators who have gone on record as opposing the deficit tax.

    The Coalition may not even have enough numbers in the Senate to pass it even if they get the Greens to agree to it!

  292. briefly

    [876
    deblonay

    WA attitude really crass .
    I recall when they and Qland were called “mendicant states” and had the seat out of their pants
    WA is by far the worst I think

    It’s a pity they joined the Federation,as many there wanted to be seperate at the time of Federation

    In reality they could not afford to be

    They would have had trouble funding themselves in such a remote and thinly peopled state ..let alone funding defence needs…so we have all paid up big over the years for them]

    We would have found a way, you can be sure of that. For most of the 20th century WA paid to help protect the tariff-reliant manufacturing of Victoria and SA. These days WA contributes well over half the country’s exports, helps fund the State governments of SA and Tasmania, makes a disproportionately large contribution to the Commonwealth budget and is a continuing source of vitality and opportunity.

    But that’s only the money. In every other sense, WA stands on its own two feet as well. The idea that we are “remote” simply attests to your own parochialism and Vic-centric obsessions.

  293. WeWantPaul

    [But that’s only the money. In every other sense, WA stands on its own two feet as well. The idea that we are “remote” simply attests to your own parochialism and Vic-centric obsessions.]

    Yeah we’d probably be unhappy with them even if they were paying their fair share.

  294. Yesiree Bob

    deblonay@858

    Nick of Melbourne but are glasses “uniquely Melbourne”

    short sight is commin in Perth.Cairns and wherever in OZ surely

    Melbournians wear black

  295. caf

    Bugler:
    [We dress like we’re the non-fictional home of House Stark. Long, dark coats are very popular if heading to or if you live around the city. We dress darker than other capitals, I think, especially now Winter is Coming. Just my impression, I do think there is a “Melbourne look”, but whether my impression of it and confessions’ are the same, I’m not sure.]

    In Canberra the all-black-clothing look is called “the Melbourne uniform”.