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Federal Election 2016

Jun 28, 2014

Seat of the week: Maribyrnong

Bill Shorten's electoral home in Melbourne's inner north-west extends from marginal Essendon and Moonee Ponds in the east to rock-solid Labor St Albans in the west.

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Red and blue numbers respectively indicate size of two-party majority for Labor. Click for larger image. Map boundaries courtesy of Ben Raue at The Tally Room.

Bill Shorten’s electorate of Maribyrnong has covered a shifting area around Essendon in Melbourne’s inner north-west since its creation in 1906. It presently extends westwards from Essendon through Niddrie and Avondale Heights to St Albans. Labor has held the seat without interruption since 1969, prior to which it was held for the Liberals for 14 years by Philip Stokes. Stokes had emerged a beneficiary of the Labor split ahead of the 1955 election, at which preferences from the ALP (Anti-Communist) candidate enabled him to unseat Labor’s Arthur Drakeford by 114 votes, in what was only Labor’s second defeat since 1910. The seat finally returned to the Labor fold at the 1969 election when it was won by Moss Cass, who secured enough of a buffer through successive swings in 1972 and 1974 to survive Labor’s electoral winter of 1975 and 1977. In 1983 he bequeathed a double-digit margin to his successor Alan Griffiths, who enjoyed a 7.4% boost when the 1990 redistribution added St Albans, which remains a particularly strong area for Labor. Griffiths was succeeded in 1996 by Bob Sercombe, who chose to bow out at the 2007 election rather than face preselection defeat at the hands of Australian Workers Union national secretary Bill Shorten.

Shorten came to parliament with a national reputation after positioning himself as the public face of the Beaconsfield mine disaster rescue effort in April-May 2006, and wielded great influence in the Victorian party factional system as a chieftain of the Right. However, Shorten was known to be hostile to Kevin Rudd, and rose no higher than parliamentary secretary for disabilities and children’s services during Rudd’s first term as Prime Minister. Shorten then emerged as one of the initiators of the June 2010 leadership coup, together with Victorian Right colleague David Feeney, and interstate factional allies Mark Arbib in New South Wales and Don Farrell in South Australia. After the 2010 election he was promoted to the outer ministry as Assistant Treasurer and Minister for Financial Services and Superannuation, and he then won promotion to an expanded cabinet by further taking on the employment and workplace relations portfolio in December 2011. Nonetheless, Shorten’s political stocks were generally thought to have been depleted by the political travails of Julia Gillard, whom he crucially abandoned in June 2013 to facilitate Kevin Rudd’s return. For this he was rewarded with a portfolio swap of financial services and superannuation for education.

After the 2013 election defeat, Shorten and Anthony Albanese of the Left emerged as the two candidates for the first leadership ballot held under the party’s new rules, in which the vote was divided evenly between the party membership and caucus. Albanese proved the clear favourite of the membership, in part reflecting the taint Shorten was perceived as carrying from his involvement in successive leadership coups against sitting prime ministers. However, Shorten’s 55-31 victory in the caucus vote was just sufficient to outweigh his 59.92%-40.08% deficit in the ballot of approximately 30,000 party members, the combined result being 52.02% for Shorten and 47.98% for Albanese.

William Bowe — Editor of The Poll Bludger

William Bowe

Editor of The Poll Bludger

William Bowe is a Perth-based election analyst and occasional teacher of political science. His blog, The Poll Bludger, is one of the most heavily trafficked forums for online discussion of Australian politics, and joined the Crikey stable in 2008.

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1141 comments

1,141 thoughts on “Seat of the week: Maribyrnong

  1. zoidlord

    @Zoomster/1038

    Do you know how stupid that sounds? Australia is a technological backwater.

  2. mikehilliard

    fess@1032

    I shut out the Howard years to some extent. Having 3 kids born in the same period was a distraction from the sheer grubness of the politics but it was always there, in the background, the rodent gnawing away at the very things I thought made our country better.

  3. outside left

    Rummel, come back and give us another chuckle. Well played Zoomster .

  4. outside left

    Dragons giving the Melbourne cheats a touch up. Lovely!!!!

  5. zoomster

    Ah, so it’s only our lack of technology saving DSP recipients from an interplanetary adventure…

  6. zoidlord

    It wasn’t I that said something about flying to Mars.

  7. bemused

    zoidlord@1037

    @bemused/1033

    Why bother replying in the first place? I wasn’t speaking to you.

    I wanted to place on record my indifference to your tanties and voting intentions.

  8. Boerwar

    William

    What is your definition of ‘a rogue poll’?

  9. Dee

    Four Corners on Murdoch and hacking.

  10. Rex Douglas

    rummel
    Posted Monday, June 30, 2014 at 8:05 pm | PERMALINK
    What Labor taught us last term was that no matter what you do the voters are going to give you a second term.

    On that logic Abbott better get a move on and exterminate all asylum prisoners on Manus/Nauru, log the entire state of Tasmania and grant the states a 50% GST rate.

  11. William Bowe

    One outside the margin of error, BW.

  12. confessions

    [Must they suffer a living hell, without normal human interaction, simply because (mostly through no fault of their own) they are unable to crack on to a woman at a dance club for a one night stand?]

    Well, if the workshop discussion was any indication, it’s not just about the sex or hooking up, but a way to reduce social isolation from the wider community by way of enabling an intimacy and companionship that a carer the person might have can’t provide.

  13. Boerwar

    Aluminium smelted by electricity generated by fossil fuel = congealed AGW.

    Off course the climate wreckers want aluminium exempt.

  14. zoidlord

    @bemused/1048

    Yes, because I actually post my “tanties”, on record, which is better than some on PB like yourself.

    The difference between me and you bemused, is actually quiet alot, I speak up about problems facing Australia.

    You may sound like it’s “tanties”, to you, the best thing you could do for others is to keep it to yourself.

  15. Boerwar

    William
    Thank you.

  16. William Bowe

    You’re not covering yourself in glory right at the moment, Bemused.

  17. Gary

    Geoff Shaw on ACA tomorrow night. Worth a look.

  18. Libertarian Unionist

    Modern aluminium smelting is interruptible, it doesn’t need a constant source of power and can handle variations in voltage and frequency. It’s just a HVDC pulse through a molten bath of It’s ideal to use with renewables, it’s just the current plants in Australia are old-school baseload guzzlers.

    BUT

    Aluminium smelters also make use of carbon cathodes and anodes, which are consumed in the smelting process and let off precocious amounts of CO2…

  19. bemused

    William Bowe@1057

    You’re not covering yourself in glory right at the moment, Bemused.

    Thanks William. 😉

    BTW, I looked up Sercombe and branch stacking and he really doesn’t to get much of a mention beyond Crikey. He was not a stand out like Seitz.

  20. Bushfire Bill

    [Well, if the workshop discussion was any indication, it’s not just about the sex or hooking up, but a way to reduce social isolation from the wider community by way of enabling an intimacy and companionship that a carer the person might have can’t provide.]

    Another way of saying “hooking up”. Forget all the “intimacy and companionship” crap. Some people just want to get laid, but can’t get to first base because they’re in a wheelchair. They have feelings too. Normal, human feelings. So they have to pay. There are sex workers out there who specialize in this area.

  21. Bushfire Bill

    Highly commended film about therapeutic sex workers: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sessions_(film)

  22. Centre

    My tip for Newspoll (if one is going to be released tonight)?

    54/46

    By the way, Farrrr Q around?

    Dragons 24 – Storm 12 where you first read it 😛

  23. zoidlord

    http://www.canberratimes.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/treasury-chief-martin-parkinson-takes-veiled-swipe-at-labor-over-budget-attacks-20140630-3b3xd.html

    “In a coded reference to Labor’s political attack on the inequity of the Abbott government’s budget, Dr Parkinson said it was unremarkable to say economic reform needed to be underpinned by fairness.”

    So a top public servant doesn’t believe the budget should be about fairness?

  24. Centre

    Why will the government not admit that we have had two boat arrivals in the last few days?

    Maybe Richard Marles will tell us on Q&A.

  25. Thomas. Paine.

    [The Treasury secretary, Martin Parkinson, says “vague notions of fairness” should not be invoked to oppose all contentious budgetary reform.

    Parkinson used a conference at the Australian National University on Monday to send Labor a not very subtle message about its opposition to key Abbott government budget measures.]

    This is why you don’t have academics in ivory castles making the decisions for a country.

    If it were simply looked at in terms of maths and balancing budgets, then the solutions are simple. Cut all spending that exceeds tax income… and fuck the people.

    Yeh, so we shouldn’t be referring to fairness…even though governments are of the people for the people and fairness is exactly what is demanded…the balance of sustainability and maximum fairness.

    Businesses use the resources of a country that belong to each citizen, there is no free lunch at the expense of citizens, now if they don’t like it they can fuck off, and i guess there will be a line of many to replace them.

    This American notion that the Corporates own the country and citizens there to service their needs, because of some make believe ‘trickle down’ fantasy as justification…

    If fairness is not an underlying principle in the management and budget making of a country then wtf is govt for?

    The Treasury secretary, Martin Parkinson, should STFU.

  26. pedant

    Centre @ 1065: The most likely answer to your question would seem to be that they didn’t anticipate that boats would start coming from India, and don’t quite know what to do about it.

  27. confessions

    BB:

    Quite. And all a legitimate care package expense.

    But wait until the wowsers in the media latch onto this. It’ll become another way the NDIS is undermined and hacked away at by the numpties.

  28. Bushfire Bill

    [But wait until the wowsers in the media latch onto this.]

    Ah yes, cripples should act like cripples, not like real people.

    Real people take their sex lives and blast them all over the front pages of the same paper that condemns the disabled.

  29. FarQU

    How much did you have on the Storm?

  30. zoomster

    zoid

    I read that as Parkinson saying that it goes without question that economic reform needs to be underpinned by fairness.

    In other words, it’s a given.

  31. Dee

    Four Corners next week.

    Cleaner, greener energy future & will Australia be left behind.

  32. sceptic

    Gaol time for Rupert?
    RM: “I remember when I first bought the News of the World, the first day I went to the office … and there was a big wall-safe … And I said, ‘What’s that for?’

    “And they said, ‘We keep some cash in there.’

    “And I said, ‘What for?’

    “They said, ‘Well, sometimes the editor needs some on a Saturday night for powerful friends. And sometimes the chairman [the late Sir William Carr] is doing badly at the tables, (laughter) and he helps himself …’

    “Now there was a law passed against this in 1906. That’s when it was first recognised as a problem … The idea that the cops then started coming after you, kick you out of bed, and your families, at six in the morning, is unbelievable.”
    So Rupert admits to knowing there were payments & did WHAT?

  33. confessions

    [Real people take their sex lives and blast them all over the front pages of the same paper that condemns the disabled.]

    Zactly.

    Plus we can fritter away gazillions in taxpayer funds on corporate pursuits, but hot damn if even one measly taxpayer dollar is used to make the disadvantaged a mite more comfortable in their lives.

  34. Centre

    Pedant

    What happened to turn back the boat?

    They got through the defence, reserve grade for 6 star Bingamton next week 😆

    Are Farcue, 😉

  35. Martin B

    Bell Bay is probably the only smelter in Australia with a future.

    Portland is an economic and environmental disaster and should be closed.

  36. bemused

    zoomster@1071

    zoid

    I read that as Parkinson saying that it goes without question that economic reform needs to be underpinned by fairness.

    In other words, it’s a given.

    That’s my take on it too, but seemingly not the MSM or zoid.

  37. taylormade

    Martin B @ 1076

    “Portland is an economic and environmental disaster and should be closed ”

    Why economic ??

  38. zoidlord

    @bemsed/1078

    Sure, it’s all I my head 😉

    If i remember correctly, it is the Coalition Party in power?

    Let’s see, we have Joe Hockey recently going on about inequity, Kevin Andrews going all out on welfare report, Patrick McClure interim report is out, and now treasury head sticks his head out.

    All attacking the low income earners.

  39. pedant

    If Mr Abbott declines to extend and fully fund the child abuse Royal Commission, the reference he wrote for a certain priest back in the 1990s is likely to be thrown back in his face in the nastiest possible way, and fair enough too.

  40. Martin B

    [Why economic ??]

    Victorian taxpayers have been subsidising the electricity ever since it was built to the tune of something like $100M per year.

  41. FarQU

    [I read that as Parkinson saying that it goes without question that economic reform needs to be underpinned by fairness.

    In other words, it’s a given.

    That’s my take on it too, but seemingly not the MSM]

    But he’s also saying that doing nothing is not an option, and the Libs were elected and are cutting spending and that will impact most on the bottom half.

    He could be on the side of Hockey’s notion of fairness, which is that rich is the new poor.

    Or he could be suggesting the alternative means of reform – which is that spending should be cut for those that don’t actually need it.

    So we shouldn’t be funding wealthy pensioners.
    And we shouldn’t be funding wealthy mining corporations.
    And we shouldn’t be funding wealthy companies.
    And we shouldn’t be giving tax-free status to corporate shills.
    And we shouldn’t be funding wealthy parents, and wealthy schools, and wealthy families.

    It could be a thinly veiled swipe, or it could just be James M Assola

  42. Rossmore

    Geelong is close to one of the windiest coastlines in the world. Number of wind farms: zero.

    News from a less windy coastline in Europe:

    http://www.greenbang.com/airtricity-orders-80-turbines-for-north-sea-wind-farm_9662.html

  43. Libertarian Unionist

    I initially read the article like Zoid – with his references “vague notions of fairness”, etc. But then I realised that all of the measure of fairness that Labor have brought up aren’t vague at all, e.g. income inequality, tax expenditures for high income earners superannuation and investment houses, etc.

    Vague is saying that it’s not “right” to use taxes on wealthy individuals to fund pensions, or the recently unemployed, or students, or health care, or disabilities, or communications infrastructure… and so on.

  44. DisplayName

    Didn’t treasury keep getting its forecasts wrong under Parkinson? Why should anyone listen to him?

  45. bemused

    zoidlord@1080

    @bemsed/1078

    Sure, it’s all I my head

    If i remember correctly, it is the Coalition Party in power?

    Let’s see, we have Joe Hockey recently going on about inequity, Kevin Andrews going all out on welfare report, Patrick McClure interim report is out, and now treasury head sticks his head out.

    All attacking the low income earners.

    So your answer is to not vote against the only effective opposition to them. Uh huh…

  46. FarQU

    Patrick McClure thinks that people who have episodic mental illnesses should be on the dole rather than the DSP. And when they lose their job because of an episodic mental illness, and end up on the dole (but let’s face it, most of them will never get a job anyway) and they can’t complete the onerous unemployment requirements of applying for 40 jobs a month and attending all interviews and answering all calls and so on, because, you know, they’re “having an episode”, we can chuck the poor fuckers off the dole as well.

    But the system’s not sustainable don’t you know. It’s not sustainable because a hundred thousand mentally ill people get $400 a week instead of the $280 dole. That’s about 600 million a year or a month’s worth of Tony’s PPL.

  47. bemused

    bemused@1088

    zoidlord@1080

    @bemsed/1078

    Sure, it’s all I my head

    If i remember correctly, it is the Coalition Party in power?

    Let’s see, we have Joe Hockey recently going on about inequity, Kevin Andrews going all out on welfare report, Patrick McClure interim report is out, and now treasury head sticks his head out.

    All attacking the low income earners.

    So your answer is to not vote against the only effective opposition to them. Uh huh…

    Whoa there..

    Should be:
    So your answer is to not vote for the only effective opposition to them. Uh huh…

  48. FarQU

    Patrick McClure reckons he’s spent most of his life working with low-income people. He’s actually spent most of his working life with organisations that work with low-income people, which ain’t the same thing. Not many low-income people sit around the board table discussing what to do with a $300 million portfolio.

    He’s been great at attracting money for his organisations. How much that has benefitted the low-income people we actually don’t know. He’s a classic “welfare industry elite”, but since he says many things the conservatives want to hear, that’s all right.

  49. Martin B

    When I think of barriers to people with episodic mental illness gaining meaningful work I think ‘clearly it is the fault of the social security system and the way payments are structured’.

  50. zoidlord

    @bemused/1090

    Define effective opposition?

  51. guytaur

    Good people in this QandA crowd

  52. guytaur

    “@Gordeauz: Did Sarah Henderson jut try and claim NDIS as theirs #qanda?”

  53. guytaur

    Labor and Greens should make that a slogan.

    Mr Abbott when did you get a mandate to attack the disabled the aged the unemployed?

  54. Centre

    Well Sarah Henderson had to get the last say didn’t she with her reckless Labor spending?

    Disgusting!

  55. guytaur

    “@forthleft: “When did your party perceive the need to attack these people in this way” is replied with sputum & second-hand vomit from Henderson #qanda”

  56. Puff, the Magic Dragon.

    It is not misandry to point out that wars are and always have been instigated, carried out and financed by men. Men plan the wars, make the armies, take the resources to fund armaments, and destroy people, animals, habitats and thousands of years of infrustructure in their wars. Women and kids are involved but that is all. In addition men use wars to steal goods, rape women and kids and torture non-combatants. Additionally or maybe purposely wars allow men to relate to each other in ways considered as a sign of homosexuality in civil life.

    Now if misandry is the abuse i have to cop every time I make a criticism of any male or males as a group, this sociologist is going to leave this site for somewhere else. I already cut back my visits here because I find every time I mention Julia Gillard I am targeted.

    If you want an nice little boy’s club where women don’t rock the boat you can have it. I notice a few of the ‘weaker sex’ not being here as often as before.

  57. Rossmore

    Stiglitz should be good on Lateline.

    BTW Where’s Newspoll tonight?

  58. zoidlord

    Interestingly:

    Oxford University ‏@UniofOxford 9m

    Shaming people won’t get them off welfare, concludes new research in forthcoming book by Oxford prof Robert Walker:http://tinyurl.com/n8cvmf3

  59. Centre

    Puffy

    Therte are women in the Labor Party who support Abbott, Morrison, Hockey and Andrews.

    Give me a break, women are not perfect, they’re just as bad as men!

  60. guytaur

    Its going to be hard for Abbott to ignore calls for the Child Abuse RC to be funded and extended as Lateline regards its creation as a result of their stories and will keep pursuing it if Abbott tries to derail it.

  61. Centre

    Typo

    Should read: There are women in the Liberal Party who support Abbott, Morrison, Hockey and Andrews @ 1102.

  62. Kinkajou

    Morrison being given the immolated Tamil as his own responsibility by a friend of the dead man. Pick the bones out of that

  63. pedant

    PTMD @ 1099: Mrs Thatcher and the Falklands?

  64. Leroy Lynch

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/abbott-government-continues-to-struggle-newspoll-figures-show/story-fn59niix-1226972945884
    [Abbott government continues to struggle, Newspoll figures show
    The Australian June 30, 2014 10:49PM
    Phillip Hudson
    Bureau Chief
    Canberra

    SUPPORT for the Abbott government is now 10 points below its election-winning vote nearly 300 days ago, with the Coalition not making any headway since the budget in selling its tough fiscal message.

    The latest Newspoll, conducted exclusively for The Australian, shows voters have shifted to the Greens, Labor and independents.

    For the fifth consecutive Newspoll, Labor is ahead of the Coalition in two-party terms and would comfortably win if an election were held today.

    Based on preference flows from the last election, Labor has a 10-point lead in two-party terms to be ahead 55 to 45 per cent, the same result as in the first poll after the May budget. It marks a 7.5 percentage point swing since the election and the Coalition’s equal worst result in four years.]

  65. guytaur

    “@GhostWhoVotes: #Newspoll 2 Party Preferred: L/NP 45 (-2) ALP 55 (+2) #auspol”

  66. zoidlord

    s

    GhostWhoVotes ‏@GhostWhoVotes 59s

    #Newspoll 2 Party Preferred: L/NP 45 (-2) ALP 55 (+2) #auspol

  67. zoidlord

    GhostWhoVotes ‏@GhostWhoVotes 10s

    #Newspoll Abbott: Approve 31 (+1) Disapprove 62 (+1) #auspol

  68. Wakefield

    Puff – I appreciate your input and mostly agree, including the debate on Gillard. Letting certain posters get under your skin though is not a good idea. The volume of talking is well recognised to be unrelated to the quality of contribution – some contributors need to be mostly passed by to avoid giving them oxygen.

  69. guytaur

    @abcnews: From @qanda: One-time @LiberalAus candidate challenges @SHendersonMP over Government’s mandate on welfare changes http://t.co/f6euxlOvIz

  70. Puff, the Magic Dragon.

    Centre
    You sound like those people who say all politicians are as bad as each other.
    You did not address my claim that women are responsible for the wars that have plagued this planet since groups of humans met each other around a waterhole. In this modern times they are not responsible for the way the world’s resources are used because they don’t bloody well control them. Nor do we control the decisions men make have wars.

    Refute it if you can. And stop hiding behind the equivalency argument.

  71. pedant

    LL @ 1107: If Newspoll is favouring the ALP in the TTPV 55:45, that represents an 8.5% swing since the election, not 7.5% as stated by Mr Hudson.

  72. Puff, the Magic Dragon.

    typo
    “women are not responsible for the wars”

  73. Centre

    55/45

    Not bad.

  74. Wakefield

    Describing the Abbott Hockey budget as tough fiscal action is way off the mark. The wealthy will contribute little if anything. The battlers are being targetted. Nasty fiscal action is the correct description. And it is going down a treat with the recipients.

  75. guytaur

    Puff

    If nothing else woman are responsible for raising the men and giving them values that means they go and start wars.

    Most of the time you are spot on but on this one I think you are not as I think the values that start wars are an equal opportunity fault. Its just seems like men because they are the ones generally in power in patriarchal societies

  76. confessions

    [Now if misandry is the abuse i have to cop every time I make a criticism of any male or males as a group, this sociologist is going to leave this site for somewhere else. I already cut back my visits here because I find every time I mention Julia Gillard I am targeted. ]

    Puffy:

    Do as I do and just breeze through it. I take the view that if there are commenters who want to pitch a fit about my views on Old White Men or JG, then they can go fuck themselves.

  77. lyndajcla

    Hello Puff…well said

  78. Norwester

    As a long term unpaid carer for a person on a disability pension I find it difficult to restrain myself from wishing similar misfortune on the likes of Andrews and his cronies. So I then give myself a lecture on not wishing misfortune on their family members – who may not all agree with their views anyway. Doesn’t stop me from visualising 1792 era justice for Andrews and his mates. This really is heading (yeah no pun) close to 1930’s stuff and it is going to make life just about unbearable for a lot of people.

    This is policy that comes from people with black hearts, whose souls are dead.

  79. Centre

    Puffy

    Oh don’t worry, if they had equal power in the past they would have been just as bad, believe me, and you probably know it.

  80. FarQU

    Pedant and Centre,

    When the overwhelming majority of the world’s violent crimes are no longer committed by men, you will have a point. Women are not as bad as men. They are not even close.

    As for 1118 – FMD.

  81. pedant

    guytaur @ 1112: Mr Palmer should be on the phone to him straight away to get him as a PUP candidate for the Victorian election.

  82. guytaur

    pedant

    I would not be surprised if Palmer was on the phone to him as we speak

  83. zoidlord

    Oh and ABC finally reports polling too btw, but only on QLD:
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-06-30/qld-government-trails-labor-in-newspoll/5558682

  84. Rossmore

    55:45 I’ll take that at this stage of the electoral cycle.

    Ratchets up the pressure on the LNP nicely … Its plea for fiscal austerity is clearly falling on deaf ears …

  85. confessions

    [If nothing else woman are responsible for raising the men and giving them values that means they go and start wars.]

    Jesus guytaur, whose arse did you pluck that shit from?

  86. guytaur

    confessions

    You think mothers do not give ethics and values to their children?

  87. Centre

    Why is it necessary to categorise between men and women?

    Sheesh, if Gillard was a Liberal PM she would have been crowned Saint Mother Thatcher The 2nd by Rupe and his butt cleansers.

    I’m moving on!

  88. pedant

    FarQU @ 1123: As it happens, I agree with your statement, which is slightly more measured than PTMD’s. I simply make the point that Mrs Thatcher led the UK during the Falklands War. (And of course Golda Meir led Israel during the Yom Kippur war.)

  89. confessions

    guytaur:

    Yeah, but not on a scale that says men who fuck up can lay blame with their mothers.

  90. FarQU

    You might be onto something Guytaur. It would certainly explain a lot, behaving like children, incapable of control, self-centred. Good reason to keep them away from pointy things and things that go bang.

  91. guytaur

    confessions

    I am not claiming that. The whole post makes it plain I see it as equal opportunity.

    Its just males have more opportunity to be in power.

    Moving on to next thread.

  92. Norwester

    So Abbott net approval -31.

    Perhaps the 7 percent undecided are not as we might suspect all fluffyheads, but could plausibly include some respondents who were so speechless with rage at the interviewers question that they became catatonic.

  93. Sir sustainable future

    45:55 trending away from abbott – a beautiful set of numbers. I wonder how long he’ll be able to convince the party room than switching the elected leader is electoral suicide. my guess is the powers in charge of him will use his unpopularity to ram through a hard right agenda and booby-trap the budget for the returning labor government in 2016, or ditch abbott six months out from the election know that anybody will be more popular. the neutered and spineless turnbull might even be given the job just so he can get the ‘PM’ title in history books – he might even win an election, but would face the same hurdles placed by abbott – I imagine a large and unsustainable tax break/dodge being introduced a few months out from the election – making ti hard for any alternative Pm to ‘increase’ tax (take it back to where it was). Abbott’s a one termer, but he will drag us as far as he can to the lunar right before he is done.

  94. Darn

    [Puff, the Magic Dragon.
    Posted Monday, June 30, 2014 at 10:58 pm | PERMALINK
    Centre
    You sound like those people who say all politicians are as bad as each other.
    You did not address my claim that women are responsible for the wars that have plagued this planet since groups of humans met each other around a waterhole. In this modern times they are not responsible for the way the world’s resources are used because they don’t bloody well control them. Nor do we control the decisions men make have wars.

    Refute it if you can. And stop hiding behind the equivalency argument.]

    Puff

    First, please don’t consider not posting here. You are a valued contributor and that would be a real pity.

    Second, every woman who leads her nation, as Hilary Clinton is likely to do in a couple of years, does control the military resources of that country – and a number of them have been just as willing as their male counterparts to send (mainly) young men off to fight and die in wars.

    Third

    Interesting to learn that you are a sociologist. That was one of my dual majors at uni.

  95. bemused

    zoidlord@1093

    @bemused/1090

    Define effective opposition?

    One capable of forming a government and actually doing stuff. N.B. Not the Greens.

  96. bemused

    Puff, the Magic Dragon.@1099

    It is not misandry to point out that wars are and always have been instigated, carried out and financed by men. Men plan the wars, make the armies, take the resources to fund armaments, and destroy people, animals, habitats and thousands of years of infrustructure in their wars. Women and kids are involved but that is all. In addition men use wars to steal goods, rape women and kids and torture non-combatants. Additionally or maybe purposely wars allow men to relate to each other in ways considered as a sign of homosexuality in civil life.

    Now if misandry is the abuse i have to cop every time I make a criticism of any male or males as a group, this sociologist is going to leave this site for somewhere else. I already cut back my visits here because I find every time I mention Julia Gillard I am targeted.

    If you want an nice little boy’s club where women don’t rock the boat you can have it. I notice a few of the ‘weaker sex’ not being here as often as before.

    There you go again Puff. Can’t help yourself. 😛

  97. Fran Barlow

    Bemused defined ‘effective opposition’ as follows

    [One capable of forming a government and actually doing stuff. N.B. Not the Greens.]

    I’d say that an effective opposition was one that could manage to prevent things getting done. The opposition to the 43rd parliament met your test, but failed mine.

    We Greens are obviously not yet an effective opposition but that’s not to say we won’t be one day. Sometime after that, we may even get to lead a government. Whatever we do though, we will do the most important thing — stand four-square alongside those fighting for social justice and fair dealing, for environmental sustainability and social inclusion. Neither of the current ruling parties can make that claim, and I doubt they’d even try.