tip off

Nielsen: 54-46 to Labor

Personal ratings for Clive Palmer and a preferred Treasurer question spice up a poll result that’s otherwise much like all the others lately.

What I believe will be the farewell Nielsen poll for the Fairfax papers shows no dividend to Tony Abbott of the carbon tax repeal or (so far) the MH17 response, with Labor’s lead up from 53-47 at last month’s poll to 54-46. The poll of 1400 respondents was conducted from Thursday to Sunday, from which you can draw your own conclusions about its likely responsiveness to what’s occurred over that time. Labor is up three points on the primary vote to 40%, with the Coalition steady at 39%, the Greens down one to 12% and Palmer United steady on 5%. However, Tony Abbott’s personal ratings have improved: his approval is up three to 38% with disapproval down four to 56%, the gap on preferred prime minister narrows from 47-40 to 46-41, and while Bill Shorten is down one on approval to 41% and up three on disapproval to 44%. Even more entertainingly, there are personal ratings for Clive Palmer (approval 37%, disapproval 51%) and a preferred treasurer poll (Joe Hockey’s lead narrowing from 51-34 in a poll conducted I-don’t-know-how-long-ago to 42-42 now.

UPDATE: Phil Coorey in the Financial Review relates results on the leaders’ personal characteristics; more from Michelle Grattan at The Conversation.

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  • 401
    Raaraa
    Posted Monday, July 21, 2014 at 4:57 pm | Permalink

    391 feeney

    Palaszczuk is a solid performer. The question remains would QLDers vote for another woman?

    Well, Anna Bligh managed to bring Labor to an electoral victory before, and only got tossed out because of the asset sales issue and health management.

  • 402
    bemused
    Posted Monday, July 21, 2014 at 5:00 pm | Permalink

    Raaraa@401

    391 feeney


    Palaszczuk is a solid performer. The question remains would QLDers vote for another woman?


    Well, Anna Bligh managed to bring Labor to an electoral victory before, and only got tossed out because of the asset sales issue and health management.

    Actually, the only ones who would vote for her are those in her electorate. All the rest have a choice between their local candidates and it seems looking from the outside that the Qld Branch of the ALP is doing a good job at selecting candidates.

  • 403
    badcat
    Posted Monday, July 21, 2014 at 5:00 pm | Permalink

    Centre

    Posted Monday, July 21, 2014 at 4:46 pm | Permalink

    A good pair of Zeiss or Nikon binoculars would clearly tell you that it was a passenger jet.

    Mistaking a plane is an excuse, always has been

    ----------------------------------------------

    I am sure all on Iran Air Flight 655 would agree

    I guess the crew and radar systems on the USS Vincennes had foggy binoculars that day ....

    According to the United States Government, the crew incorrectly identified the Iranian Airbus A300 as an attacking F-14A Tomcat fighter, a plane made in the United States and operated at that time by only two forces worldwide, the United States Navy and the Islamic Republic of Iran Air Force. The Iranian F-14's at that time had no anti-ship capability.[5

    The US Navy had claimed that the Vincennes was defending itself in international waters at the time of the incident. Later disclosures would prove that the Vincennes had entered into Iranian waters and initiated hostilities. This was a key fact that was left out of the public inquiry led by Admiral Fogarty

  • 404
    Centre
    Posted Monday, July 21, 2014 at 5:03 pm | Permalink

    Putin events such as these should not divide but unite people”.

    Oh goody, shoot another one down so we can further unite. Working like gold so far?

  • 405
    ruawake
    Posted Monday, July 21, 2014 at 5:03 pm | Permalink

    Qld ALP candidates pre selected already for the next election.

    http://www.queenslandlabor.org/candidates/

  • 406
    confessions
    Posted Monday, July 21, 2014 at 5:05 pm | Permalink

    kezza:

    Yeah, that’s kind of what I’m getting at. Men don’t wear pink. Gay men wear pink. Straight men don’t.

  • 407
    Raaraa
    Posted Monday, July 21, 2014 at 5:06 pm | Permalink

    402

    Yes, I know how Westminster governments work. Basically her party got tossed out because of decisions she made as a leader.

  • 408
    bemused
    Posted Monday, July 21, 2014 at 5:06 pm | Permalink

    Just heard our Prime Moron saying what was happening at the site in Ukraine “looks more like a garden cleanup than a forensic investigation”.

    There were 398 bodies to recover. Untrained volunteers such as coal miners were searching fields, locating bodies and later removing them. What does the Prime Moron want?

    Also, for quite some time, fire fighters were at work putting out burning parts of the plane and where it fell. This went on for many hours.

  • 409
    Fran Barlow
    Posted Monday, July 21, 2014 at 5:07 pm | Permalink

    BW@66

    (a) Did 300 unarmed passengers fall out of the sky in Gaza too?

    No. The unarmed in this case were going about their lawful business when drones with missiles attacked them from the air. Fisherfolk with their children on beaches were fired upon by people who could see whom they were killing. The house of the Chief Medical Officer in Gaza was levelled. Ambulances were fired upon. Some people in a refugee camp, advised by the Israelis that they should evacuate their house did so, hiding under a nearby tree, whereupon that was attacked instead, killing the whole family.

    They are now being attacked with tanks that fire rounds of ‘flechettes’ — essentially 35mm nails 5000 at a time against massed civilians.

    (b) Did MH17 fire 1,000 plus rockets at whoever happened to be under the rockets?

    Not relevant. The attack on MH17 was an atrocity, but the atrocity in Gaza is one in which we know for sure that the aggressors, the regular forces of a technologically advanced state are deliberately doing murderous collective punishment.

  • 410
    bemused
    Posted Monday, July 21, 2014 at 5:08 pm | Permalink

    Centre@404

    Putin events such as these should not divide but unite people”.

    Oh goody, shoot another one down so we can further unite. Working like gold so far?

    Go back to something you are good at like bashing Greens.

  • 411
    Martin B
    Posted Monday, July 21, 2014 at 5:09 pm | Permalink

    [Qld ALP candidates pre selected already for the next election.
    http://www.queenslandlabor.org/candidates/

    At first glance that looks like a pretty decent balance of experience returning and fresh leaves. Mark Bailey will be a solid addition to the frontbench.

  • 412
    Centre
    Posted Monday, July 21, 2014 at 5:10 pm | Permalink

    Badcat @ 403

    Yup!

  • 413
    Fran Barlow
    Posted Monday, July 21, 2014 at 5:11 pm | Permalink

    Psyclaw

    I appreciate that you are not referring to my #87 but it alerts me to clarify that #87 is about Fran’s use of 6 lines to say what I said in 2 lines, not any value judgements about the merits of those two war events.

    I was doing analysis of the media coverage, not the substantive case for one side or the other’s conduct.

  • 414
    Raaraa
    Posted Monday, July 21, 2014 at 5:11 pm | Permalink

    409

    Basically a small proportion of people fired rockets. Everybody else suffered as a consequence.

    Did we actually find out who was responsible for the kidnapping and deaths of the 3 teenagers?

  • 415
    kezza2
    Posted Monday, July 21, 2014 at 5:12 pm | Permalink

    fess

    Got ya!

    Speaking of confusing blue and pink, anyone getting bored with the The Tunnel?

    Same stereotypical female detective, sans emotion, screwing any male because she needs a sexual outlet, but refuses to engage emotionally.

    The ridiculous scene last week, was too much.

    Then this week, after the male detective has actually been unfaithful (his wife’s pregnant, and he’s just recovering from a vasectomy), the female detective has the male detective’s son over for the night.

    Male detective furious that the female detective has compromised his position by having sex with his son.

    Of course, the female detective didn’t sleep with the son . . . . etc. etc.

    Spare me the bullshit.

  • 416
    absolutetwaddle
    Posted Monday, July 21, 2014 at 5:12 pm | Permalink

    Dee

    “I expect this article has already been posted…”

    I’ll always remember how quickly the average Australian voter fell for the mining tax scare campaign whenever someone tries telling me the voter’s always right. Sorry, but all available evidence leads any reasonable person to the conclusion it takes a sledge hammer, a loaded shotgun and a tonne of TNT (at minimum) to get even one member Australian public to vote in their best interests.

    I mean, who else literally gagged at the sight of Julie Bishop and Gina Rinehart, jowls quivering with the kind of self-pitying rage only a billionaire can muster, with fucking placards at their little ‘protest’ in Perth? It made my skin crawl but I guess a lot of my fellow countrymen looked at that and said ‘well, they look oppressed to me!’

    Truly facepalmable stuff.

  • 417
    lizzie
    Posted Monday, July 21, 2014 at 5:12 pm | Permalink

    confessions

    Perhaps that’s only in WA.

    BTW, there was a time not so long ago when baby boys wore pink, and baby girls blue.

  • 418
    bemused
    Posted Monday, July 21, 2014 at 5:12 pm | Permalink

    Fran Barlow@409
    Fran, if you haven’t already read this, do yourself a favour and read it. http://www.richardsilverstein.com/2013/04/09/last-of-warsaw-ghetto-survivors-calls-for-rebellion-against-israeli-occupation/

  • 419
    Centre
    Posted Monday, July 21, 2014 at 5:13 pm | Permalink

    The Greens are happy Bemused.

    The market keeps going up and up and up. They’ll never get rid of capitalism at this rate :cool:

  • 420
    Centre
    Posted Monday, July 21, 2014 at 5:15 pm | Permalink

    You wouldn’t believe it Bludgers, Mortisha’s mother on the Adam’s Family was called Franny Frump…

    Priceless!

  • 421
    Raaraa
    Posted Monday, July 21, 2014 at 5:15 pm | Permalink

    417 lizzie

    BTW, there was a time not so long ago when baby boys wore pink, and baby girls blue.

    It’s the future now. Shouldn’t babies be in sleek silver coveralls now?

  • 422
    absolutetwaddle
    Posted Monday, July 21, 2014 at 5:17 pm | Permalink

    Centre

    The Greens are a capitalist party. They do not aim to overthrow it outside of your fevered imagination.

  • 423
    kezza2
    Posted Monday, July 21, 2014 at 5:17 pm | Permalink

    lizzie

    BTW, there was a time not so long ago when baby boys wore pink, and baby girls blue.

    When?

  • 424
    guytaur
    Posted Monday, July 21, 2014 at 5:18 pm | Permalink

    Abbott was right to refer to a gardening effort. A forensic one is where you take photos of the bodies before you move them.

    Don’t any of you watch Silent Witness? :P

  • 425
    ruawake
    Posted Monday, July 21, 2014 at 5:19 pm | Permalink

    I guess this leaves Abbott with nowhere to go?

    Moscow: Russia's President Vladimir Putin, the leader at the centre of the international crisis over the downed Malaysia Airlines' plane has broken his silence, saying no country should use the tragedy for its own ends.

    “We must do everything to provide security for the international experts on the site of the tragedy," Mr Putin said to Russian network Russia Today, in his first public comments about the incident.

    "In the meantime, nobody should and has no right to use this tragedy to achieve their ‘narrowly selfish’ political goals," he said.

    Mr Putin called for a "fully representative group of experts to be working at the site" under the guidance of the International Civil Aviation Authority, which governs the standards of crash-site investigations.

  • 426
    Raaraa
    Posted Monday, July 21, 2014 at 5:19 pm | Permalink

    http://jezebel.com/5790638/the-history-of-pink-for-girls-blue-for-boys

  • 427
    badcat
    Posted Monday, July 21, 2014 at 5:19 pm | Permalink

    Centre

    Posted Monday, July 21, 2014 at 5:10 pm | Permalink

    Badcat @ 403

    Yup!

    ——————————————————

    …the United States recognized the aerial incident of 3 July 1988 as a terrible human tragedy and expressed deep regret over the Loss of lives caused by the incident…As part of the settlement, the United States did not admit legal liability but agreed to pay US$61.8 million, amounting to $213,103.45 per passenger, in compensation to the families of the Iranian victims.

    George H. W. Bush, the vice president of the United States at the time commented on the incident during a presidential campaign function (2 Aug 1988): “I will never apologize for the United States — I don’t care what the facts are… I’m not an apologize-for-America kind of guy.” Bush used the phrase frequently during the 1988 campaign and promised to “never apologize for the United States” months prior to the July 1988 shootdown and as early as January 1988. Half the legal wrangling as well as the settlement occurred under Clinton, who also refused to apologize for the incident.

    Despite the mistakes made in the downing of the plane, the men of the Vincennes were awarded Combat Action Ribbons for completion of their tours in a combat zone

  • 428
    mikehilliard
    Posted Monday, July 21, 2014 at 5:20 pm | Permalink

    Dee@397

    I’d missed that article so thanks for putting up the link.

    I don’t think it made my day any rosier though.

  • 429
    confessions
    Posted Monday, July 21, 2014 at 5:20 pm | Permalink

    lizzie:

    No it’s in Qld not WA. The Newman govt’s bright idea to put bikers in pink prison garb to stop people joining outlaw motorcycle gangs.

  • 430
    guytaur
    Posted Monday, July 21, 2014 at 5:21 pm | Permalink

    Oh dear.

    @Quiet__Please: BREAKING : #Chimp on the loose in Sydney, escaped from Lennon Bros Circus

    #auspol http://t.co/6eSlTTzP4F

  • 431
    Fran Barlow
    Posted Monday, July 21, 2014 at 5:21 pm | Permalink

    Zoomster

    I find fran’s ‘why do we care about MH17?’ muse a little hypocritical.

    Why do the Greens care about the refugees arriving here by boat and ignore the plight of refugees in camps far away from Australia?

    The analogy doesn’t hold. Firstly, almost all of the IMAs are non-European. Secondly, our legal obligations are enlivened by the making of a claim. In a much broader sense we care about all of the forcibly displaced, not just the IMAs but they are within our purview. They ate the ones being brutalised by Australian officials. We would of course like to see a broad international agreement covering al, of the FDPs.

  • 432
    guytaur
    Posted Monday, July 21, 2014 at 5:25 pm | Permalink

    “@dannolan: this chimp escaping really does not bode well for tony’s poll numbers writes bob ellis”

  • 433
    bemused
    Posted Monday, July 21, 2014 at 5:26 pm | Permalink

    lizzie@417

    confessions

    Perhaps that’s only in WA.

    BTW, there was a time not so long ago when baby boys wore pink, and baby girls blue.

    I heard that was the case in Scotland.

    Anyway, try telling that to my 4yo grand-daughter. Without any encouragement from her parents, she just wants everything to be pink. And that was from a very early age.

  • 434
    ruawake
    Posted Monday, July 21, 2014 at 5:28 pm | Permalink

    If you have an hour an 20 mins to spare do yourself a favour and watch this.

    http://www.chifley.org.au/in-conversation-with-joseph-stiglitz-and-shadow-treasurer-chris-bowen/

  • 435
    kezza2
    Posted Monday, July 21, 2014 at 5:28 pm | Permalink

    Raaraa

    In the 1940s manufacturers settled on pink for girls and blue for boys

    So, when I asked lizzie when?

    We’re talking 70-odd years of blue for boys, pink for girls, notwithstanding the 80s.

    Sorry, 70 years ago, isn’t recent or “isn’t a time not so long ago.”

  • 436
    poroti
    Posted Monday, July 21, 2014 at 5:29 pm | Permalink

    k2

    Ladies' Home Journal article in June 1918 said, "The generally accepted rule is pink for the boys, and blue for the girls. The reason is that pink, being a more decided and stronger color, is more suitable for the boy, while blue, which is more delicate and dainty, is prettier for the girl.".................................In the 1940s manufacturers settled on pink for girls and blue for boys

    http://jezebel.com/5790638/the-history-of-pink-for-girls-blue-for-boys

  • 437
    badcat
    Posted Monday, July 21, 2014 at 5:29 pm | Permalink

    [ absolutetwaddle

    Posted Monday, July 21, 2014 at 5:12 pm | Permalin

    I mean, who else literally gagged at the sight of Julie Bishop and Gina Rinehart, jowls quivering with the kind of self-pitying rage only a billionaire can muster, with fucking placards at their little ‘protest’ in Perth? It made my skin crawl but I guess a lot of my fellow countrymen looked at that and said ‘well, they look oppressed to me!’

    Truly facepalmable stuff.

    -----------------------------------------

    I still have a pin-up picture of Gina - in working class bib and brace overalls - pleading how hard she is getting done by the MMRT ..... poor lil baby - swallow your makeup to try be as pretty on the INSIDE ....ughhhhhhhh....

  • 438
    Pegasus
    Posted Monday, July 21, 2014 at 5:29 pm | Permalink

    Article by Mark Diesendorf: https://theconversation.com/renewable-energy-is-ready-to-supply-all-of-australias-electricity-29200

    Moving to 100% renewable electricity is safe, technically feasible and affordable. It can cut greenhouse gas and other emissions and land degradation, while creating local jobs and energy security. It is ready to go!

  • 439
    bemused
    Posted Monday, July 21, 2014 at 5:33 pm | Permalink

    guytaur@432

    “@dannolan: this chimp escaping really does not bode well for tony’s poll numbers writes bob ellis”

    Quick, where’s Abbott? Give his location to the chimp hunters. :evil:

  • 440
    Dee
    Posted Monday, July 21, 2014 at 5:34 pm | Permalink

    UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon has condemned the killing of dozens of Palestinians in the Gaza Strip by Israeli shelling as an "atrocious action" and called for an immediate end to almost two weeks of fighting.

    http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2014/07/un-chief-condemns-atrocious-gaza-killings-2014720222714271433.html

  • 441
    daretotread
    Posted Monday, July 21, 2014 at 5:38 pm | Permalink

    Bemused

    I had the same tale with my daughter.

    Tell your granddaughter’s mother to go slow on the pink from the day she turns 7. Might find that suddenly pink is no longer cool. Cupboards full of pink items no longer worn.

  • 442
    bemused
    Posted Monday, July 21, 2014 at 5:42 pm | Permalink

    daretotread@441

    Bemused

    I had the same tale with my daughter.

    Tell your granddaughter’s mother to go slow on the pink from the day she turns 7. Might find that suddenly pink is no longer cool. Cupboards full of pink items no longer worn.

    It is really funny. The preference is so strong and no amount of persuasion attempts will shift her.

    The other unshakeable preference is for Peppa Pig.

  • 443
    kezza2
    Posted Monday, July 21, 2014 at 5:47 pm | Permalink

    After reading “What happens to a human body after death”, it doesn’t augur well with identification of a person after 48 hours has elapsed.

    Finger nails drop out, putrefaction, swelling, etc, sets in within 12 hours.

    Sitting out in 85 F (degree) heat for days on end will hasten the decay process.

    And we all know the smell of death. Be it a human or a pet or another animal.

    Identification will be more prolonged than it should have been, had this not been a war zone. I mean, it’s taken over 60 years to identify some remains from France.

    In Qld, the Baden-Clay case: Alison Baden-Clay’s body mummified during the lapse of time from when she was murdered until her body was discovered.

    That being said, I don’t know how the bodies are going to be identified, nor repatriated, within a short time frame.

    Abbott’s stupid. So are his advisors.

  • 444
    absolutetwaddle
    Posted Monday, July 21, 2014 at 5:51 pm | Permalink

    When the Palestinian public at large wake up to the fact that having Hamas and Islamic Jihad run amok firing rockets, making threats and kidnapping/murdering Israelis is largely responsible for their current predicament, progress will be made. The fact is if you throw a rock at the Israelis, you get a bullet in return. If you fire a fucking rocket at them, you’ll get a polite phone call if you’re lucky then twenty rockets in return. It’s very likely at least a few of those rockets will kill a kid or a cripple or a grandmother.

    At this point, this outcome is reasonably foreseeable. The Hamas model of ‘resistance’ (ie, poking a rabid dog with a flimsy twig) leads to Palestinian death… which is probably precisely what they want, what with their sick obsession with martyrdom and all that.

    But for now it appears the Arab world is stuck in the ‘only blame the Je… uhhhh… Zionists’ loop. Whatever works I guess? I feel deeply sorry for the thoroughly marginalised moderate, secular and progressive Palestinians and Israelis who never have any hope of being heard as long as this mindlessness continues.

  • 445
    badcat
    Posted Monday, July 21, 2014 at 5:52 pm | Permalink

    bemused

    Posted Monday, July 21, 2014 at 5:42 pm | Permalink

    The other unshakeable preference is for Peppa Pig.

    ———————————————

    Maybe its just me ???? – but every time my sons kids insist on watching peppa pig – I see all their cartoon heads resemble male genitalia ….

  • 446
    lizzie
    Posted Monday, July 21, 2014 at 5:53 pm | Permalink

    kezza

    Sorry, I’ve been away on a phone call. Thanks poroti. As I was born in the 1940s, it doesn’t seem so far away to me ;)

  • 447
    bemused
    Posted Monday, July 21, 2014 at 5:57 pm | Permalink

    kezza2@443

    After reading “What happens to a human body after death”, it doesn’t augur well with identification of a person after 48 hours has elapsed.

    Finger nails drop out, putrefaction, swelling, etc, sets in within 12 hours.

    Sitting out in 85 F (degree) heat for days on end will hasten the decay process.

    And we all know the smell of death. Be it a human or a pet or another animal.

    Identification will be more prolonged than it should have been, had this not been a war zone. I mean, it’s taken over 60 years to identify some remains from France.

    In Qld, the Baden-Clay case: Alison Baden-Clay’s body mummified during the lapse of time from when she was murdered until her body was discovered.

    That being said, I don’t know how the bodies are going to be identified, nor repatriated, within a short time frame.

    Abbott’s stupid. So are his advisors.

    Dental records and DNA tests spring to mind.

    I cannot imagine a more ghastly experience than to be recovering those bodies. I take my hat off to those volunteers who are carrying out this task.

  • 448
    bemused
    Posted Monday, July 21, 2014 at 6:00 pm | Permalink

    badcat@445


    bemused

    Posted Monday, July 21, 2014 at 5:42 pm | Permalink

    The other unshakeable preference is for Peppa Pig.


    ———————————————

    Maybe its just me ???? – but every time my sons kids insist on watching peppa pig – I see all their cartoon heads resemble male genitalia ….

    badcat, you are just ‘bad’. :lol:

  • 449
    kezza2
    Posted Monday, July 21, 2014 at 6:01 pm | Permalink

    absolutetwaddle

    I feel deeply sorry for the thoroughly marginalised moderate, secular and progressive Palestinians and Israelis who never have any hope of being heard as long as this mindlessness continues.

    Yeah. I agree.

    But I won’t condone deliberate ‘settlement’ of Palestinian territory by Israelis.

    That was a determined policy by Israel; a policy which broke every international rule.

    Israel wouldn’t have survived without US backing.

    And the Palestinians have every right to protest. And to fight for what was agreed upon all those years ago.

    http://justaskamuslim.blogspot.com.au/2012/11/palestine-then-and-now.html

    Yeah, we all sang along with Paul McCartney, “Give Ireland back to the Irish”, yet there’s too many of us not singing, “Give Palestine back to the Palestinians.”

    And bugger people like Psephos who pretend that there was never a land called Palestine.

    I remember my studies. There was a land called Palestine. And it used to be coloured red.

  • 450
    Dee
    Posted Monday, July 21, 2014 at 6:06 pm | Permalink

    absolutetwaddle

    What do we do with the extremist right wing war mongers in Israel?

    My blood ran cold when a woman with close ties to the government stated words to the effect:

    “Palestinians have no right to be here. Stay and you will be killed. Yes, unfortunate for the children but they must understand this is not their home and they have no future here.

    WTF!

    If the Palestinian faction was uninterested in a ceasefire, it would not have subsequently floated its own proposal for a 10-year truce. This was announced on Al Jazeera and reported by Israeli media. If Netanyahu genuinely sought an end to hostilities, he would have taken Hamas' plan into consideration.

    He did not even respond - nor did Egypt - despite the terms being eminently reasonable. They include lifting the siege of Gaza, economic development of the territory, UN supervision of borders, crossings, the airport and seaport, easing conditions for permits to pray at Jerusalem's Al Aqsa mosque, respect for the national reconciliation deal, and the freeing of Palestinians detained since the abduction and killing of three Israeli teenagers last month.

    The problem for Hamas is that in terms of accepting the Egyptian proposal, it would have been damned if it did and damned if it did not. One of its primary objections was negotiating longer-term issues after a ceasefire was agreed, preferring instead to do both simultaneously.

    This thinking was borne out of the experience of the last ceasefire agreement in 2012. The terms stipulated that after 24 hours, talks would begin on opening crossings into Gaza and allowing free movement of people and goods. That did not happen, and the two sides disagreed on what that meant. Hamas said the deal covered the opening of all Gaza's border crossings with Israel and Egypt, but Israel said it would not lift its blockade.

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