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Federal Politics 2013-

Aug 22, 2014

ReachTEL: 51-49 to Labor

ReachTEL provides further evidence of a slow trend back to the Coalition as the budget slump unwinds, but it also offers some very bad news for Joe Hockey.

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The Seven Network tonight brings results from a ReachTEL poll showing Labor’s lead at 51-49, the narrowest it has been from ReachTEL since February. The only news on the primary vote at this stage is that Palmer United is down from 8.2% to 6.7%. The poll was conducted last night, so this would have caught any effect of Clive Palmer’s China-baiting performance on Q&A on Monday. The poll also has bad for Joe Hockey, who was rated out of touch by 59% of respondents compared with only 26% who disagreed, with even Coalition voters breaking 50-24 against him. The poll also finds a 38-38 tie on whether the economy is headed in the right or the wrong direction. A question on the government’s data retention moves finds 64% opposed and only 20% in support. An Essential poll a fortnight ago had it at 51% and 39%, the difference perhaps being down to the wording of the questions.

UPDATE: Full results here. On the primary vote, the Coalition is up from 40.5% to 41.2%, Labor is up from 37.1% to 37.3%, the Greens are down from 10.3% to 9.3% and Palmer United is down from 8.2% to 6.7%. Also featured are personal ratings on the leaders, and a finding that 65.9% think Clive Palmer has a “negative impact on foreign relations”, against 12.4% for positive impact.

UPDATE (Morgan): Very little change in the latest Roy Morgan result, which as usual combines two weekends of face-to-face plus SMS polling, this time attaining a sample of 2691. On the primary vote, the Coalition is steady on 37.5%, Labor is up half a point to 38.5%, the Greens are down half a point to 10.5% and Palmer United is down one to 4.5%, a possibly interesting result when taken together with ReachTEL and allowing for the fact that only half of the sample was polled after last week’s Q&A. On two-party preferred, Labor’s lead on respondent-allocated preferences is down fractionally from 56-44 to 55.5-44.5, while the measure which allocates preferences as per the previous election result is steady at 54-46.

In a big week all round for polling, stay tuned for Newspoll tonight, Essential Research tomorrow and, I’m guessing, a state New South Wales result from Newspoll reasonably soon.

William Bowe — Editor of The Poll Bludger

William Bowe

Editor of The Poll Bludger

William Bowe is a Perth-based election analyst and occasional teacher of political science. His blog, The Poll Bludger, is one of the most heavily trafficked forums for online discussion of Australian politics, and joined the Crikey stable in 2008.

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1,157 thoughts on “ReachTEL: 51-49 to Labor

  1. Socrates


    I can only hope Utopia (brilliant!) do an episode on a road tunnel being pushed by a dying state government. In the final scene it will be revealed that the real reason is so that the relevant state minister and his mates can get lucrative jobs as directors in the company financing the road after they lose their seats in parliament. Fiction of course. They should call the project North South link.

  2. BK

    Good morning Dawn Patrollers.

    Refugees’ mental anguish in Australia’s “Guantanamo”.
    The government is digging in deep and talking tough over the budget.
    Lenore Taylor says it is shifting from charm offensive to passive aggression.
    Parliament’s return will test crossbench will and Coalition backbench nerves.
    Surely not!!!
    Senator X has some proposals to strengthen the effects of the Direct Action policy.
    We need to call out Abbott’s climate nihilism. A good long essay.
    Ross Gittins – the short sighted mining boom makes no sense.
    ASIC has bank managers in its sights.
    Oh what a lovely culture war!

  3. BK

    Section 2 . . .

    Why Abbott can’t hack it as Prime Minister.
    George Williams on the state of free speech in Australia.
    George Pell’s logic on child sexual abuse id flawed. An interesting historical view.
    Wendy Squires on her refusal on being asked to be a child’s godmother. A well written piece.
    Judy Courtin – the church is still more concerned for its reputation than for its victims.
    Time for a big change in economic thinking.
    Doctors say the booze lockout in Sydney is working but businesses count the cost. Stiff!
    The three worst things the Liberals did yesterday.
    Bruce Petty takes us to the constipation Ward.
    Cathy Wilcox – inspirational quotes for Team Australia.
    David Rowe suggesting that Hockey and Cormann need a new image.

  4. victoria


    I know that those working within the construction industry want the east west link to proceed. For them it is all a question of having work.

  5. Socrates


    In the fictional Utopia episode the state opposition will support the same road, motivated by a dodgy union official who gets campaign money from the same finance company.

    Again, pure fiction.

  6. victoria


    The excuses being made for not releasing the business plan of the road tunnel, is very telling

  7. Socrates


    The rail link they dropped would have created more jobs.

  8. victoria


    The govt is supposedly still proceeding with a rail link. Just a different one going to a different location.

  9. lizzie


    The big firms use that as an excuse. There would be other work if so much money was not being directed towards freeways etc.

    I will never use a toll road on principle.

  10. lizzie

    “not so much money”

  11. lizzie

    Bugger. Delete 867

  12. zoomster

    Spent an icy weekend in Ballarat once watching my youngest play soccer (whilst holding tightly to the sides of the marquee to make sure it didn’t blow away).

    On the first day, I said to the woman in the coffee van, “Ah well, I suppose there are compensations” and she said, yes, there were.

    On the second day, I said, “OK, what are they?” and she said, “There aren’t any, I lied.”

  13. Socrates


    You might as well use EW link. It is not strictly a toll road. It will be financed (by Victorian state taxpayers) by an “availability charge. That means the consortium gets the money if the road is open to traffic, regardless of how many use it. It is really a fancy way to say “pure debt finance”. That is why transport economists like Davidson (and myself) say it is such a bad deal.

  14. Socrates

    Victoria 865

    Yes but by changing it they have delayed it years (no contract this term of government, even though it was ready to go). Plus by no longer going right into the heart of the city it will not relieve the rail morning gridlock. Insane.

  15. lizzie

    I’m sorry the gentleman died, but this report is funny!

    [The son of Lord Attenborough, the winner of two Academy Awards as producer and director of 1983’s Ghandi, told the BBC he died on Sunday (local time).]

  16. victoria


    Agreed. It is very disheartening.

  17. zoomster

    [Unlike the beaming former Treasurer, he seems indecisive.]

    I assume the Treasurer referred to is Costello….sort of makes me take the rest of the article with a grain of salt..

  18. lizzie


    ABC News ‏@abcnews 5m
    Veteran British actor Richard Attenborough, of Great Escape and Jurassic Park fame, has died aged 90 http://ab.co/1slIYsn

  19. Socrates

    Regarding the Judy Courtin article about the catholic church being more concerned about its reputation than its victims, I think she is wrong. In my experience the catholic church hierarchy has always been more concerned about its bank balance than anything else. Keeping clergy out of jail comes second, followed by reputation third. Parishoners who put money on the plate are fourth, all others including victims are fifth. There were good reasons why I became an atheist. Have a good day all.

  20. lizzie

    Respect for others’ opinions is completely lacking in our government, and Morrison’s treatment of Gillian Trigg is a shining example.


    [So, this last session was not only the first one in Canberra but was also the first time in living memory that a senior government minister and his officious offsider, the secretary of his department, decided that there would be no serious, respectful participation.

    Bowles’s behaviour has already drawn criticism for his belligerence during these hearings but last Friday, even he was outdone by his master, Scott Morrison, whose empathy bypass could only have been declared a resounding success once he embraced the role of Minister for Border Protection in this government.

    And that’s precisely what happened on Friday as time after time, Morrison interrupted Triggs or – if she dared to keep speaking – he just spoke over the top of her.

    Said one senior journalist last week: “I have not seen such a level of disrespect either in Senate estimates or any other kind of inquiry in my entire career.”]

  21. lizzie

    [GeorgeBludger 2m
    Faine on the ‘stalled’ budget: “Several ministers were out reading the riot act to an unruly electorate” LOL]

  22. victoria


    I am listening to faine’s program and found that comment funny too

  23. CTar1

    [Paying tribute, Prime Minister David Cameron tweeted: “His acting in “Brighton Rock” was brilliant, his directing of “Gandhi” was stunning – Richard Attenborough was one of the greats of cinema.”]

    Sometimes even pommie politicians get it right.

    I have a minor quibble with his brother.

  24. lizzie


    If 774 was really toeing the Liberal line, they would have banished Faine years ago. He’s getting more and more outspoken 😆

  25. victoria


    Faine has been very outspoken of late. Soon he will get the title of grumpy old man!

    He is not happy with the east west link and changes to higher education

  26. victoria


    Now he is speaking about house prices

  27. lizzie

    If I were imprisoned without knowing the reasons, so unable to refute them, I would go mad within months. How can we support such treatment?

    [Several of the 44 refugees have now been incarcerated more than five years without charge in Melbourne and Sydney, and none are allowed to know the detail of the secret assessments used to justify their detention.

    The heavy psychological toll has led to extraordinary rates of depression, anxiety and self-harm, including one man repeatedly beating his head with a toilet door.

    The 42 men and two women have been officially recognised as refugees and almost universally report a history of torture and trauma.]


  28. lizzie

    [Zanetti cartoon
    #auspol #Senate #HECS #Education #Palmer #Pyne pic.twitter.com/DSn9dYcpFN ]

  29. lizzie

    Ain’t that sweeet!

    [“After the assault they took their shirts off, placed them around their heads and ran around the block,” Duty Superintendent Louise Jorgensen from NT Police said.

    “Helpfully one of the offenders had his name tattooed on his back, so it wasn’t hard to locate him.

    “We found him at a nearby bar and he was arrested.”
    . . .

    After the two men were arrested one of them went into a police van but the other one allegedly fought officers.

    “The offender that was in the van got out and helped the police put his mate inside,” Superintendent Jorgensen said.]


  30. victoria

    [Before the 2013 election and since, it has been the contention of this blogger that the Australia’s political media (including, but not limited to, the Canberra press gallery) did not sufficiently scrutinise the Coalition about its suitability to govern this country.

    It is more than fair to say that it was excessively critical of the former Labor government and has been insufficiently critical (in the best sense) of this one. To compensate, political journalists are acting all surprised that the Abbott government turned out to be worse than they had expected it to be, when nobody had any right to expect an Abbott government to be anything but the combination of punchline and disaster like the US Presidency of George W. Bush. I’ve already gone after Michelle Grattan for this silly approach, but yet it persists from beyond the press gallery by two commentators who ought to know better.]


  31. lizzie

    None of this will surprise PBers, but it’s a comfortable endorsement of our own beliefs.


  32. Bushfire Bill

    During recent vicissitudes involving my wife and her employer – the NSW Public Service – I read voluminously many, many of their “Policy Directives”.

    These are designed to be available to anyone who cares to download them, and indeed are recommended to employees at various stages of the disciplinary process are shing lights of guidance as to employee rights, proper process and Public Service goals… er… “Mission statements”.

    The word and concept of “Team” – team membership, team building, team support, team rewards, team consultation, team rules and procedures – is used often.

    It’s all a crock of shit, of course.

    The same old principles apply: screw the worker, bully staff, quote your rules as applying to them (but not applying to you, the manager), threaten, cajole, abuse process and generally ignore policy with extreme prejudice.

    So much for “Teams”… a much abused word that seems to apply only to the captain, coaches and administrators, but not the players.

  33. guytaur

    Good Morning.

    The government still at it. Bullying the Senate works so well for them.

    Also it maybe a popcorn day Kathy Jackson at the RC again.

  34. guytaur

    “@latikambourke: QLD Palmer United Senator Glenn Lazarus tells @NewsTalk4BC he doesn’t believe the Govt’s negative talk on budget is as bad as they claim.”

  35. poroti


    From Zanetti cartoon. A boater is so perfect for Pyne.

  36. shellbell

    [Paying tribute, Prime Minister David Cameron tweeted: “His acting in “Brighton Rock” was brilliant, his directing of “Gandhi” was stunning – Richard Attenborough was one of the greats of cinema.”

    Sometimes even pommie politicians get it right.

    I have a minor quibble with his brother.]

    I thought he showed scant regard for occupational health and safety at Jurassic Park thereby exposing his staff and grandchildren to significant risk of injury particularly from raptors.

  37. guytaur

    “@latikambourke: PUP Senator Glenn Lazarus says Govt’s threat to raise taxes would be “political suicide.” @NewsTalk4BC”

    Well the “Brick” is Smarter than Cormann, Hockey and Joyce

  38. lizzie

    Conversation with hearing aid provider. Verbatim.

    “My husband has an appointment with you on 17 December. He has died so he won’t be keeping the appointment.”

    “Thank you. Have a good day.”

    I’m not sure she was even listening !!

  39. Kevin Bonham

    Full primaries and other stuff from ReachTEL here:


    I estimate the 2PP at 51.0 so nothing lost there in the rounding.

    Both Abbott and Shorten have moderate improvements in their personal ratings in this one though in Shorten’s case what comes off the bad end is mostly going to Satisfactory.

  40. guytaur

    @MayneReport: Newspoll says Napthine is facing a wipe-out. He desperately needs Federal Libs to put Turnbull into The Lodge: http://t.co/Nw4T3sI01J

  41. guytaur

    “@andrew_lund: Govt ministers not keen to talk about latest newspoll. Not even a ” the only poll that counts is November” #springst @9NewsMelb”

  42. poroti

    Tuned to 2GB to see what is on their menu today. Met with a vile dish, Ray Hadley and Scrot Morrison doing a dog whistle duet.

  43. guytaur

    “@ABCNews24: Coming up: #ABCNews24 will have opening statements from Commissioner John Deyson Heydon at the #turc in Sydney after 10am AEST”

  44. zoidlord

    Emma Griffiths @EJGriffiths · 1m

    Barnaby Joyce likens national debt to skin cancer: “as a financial melanoma, it will kill you” #auspol #budget @amworldtodaypm

    Barnaby been rolled out, here is a hint Joyce, Howard never removed debt.

  45. lizzie

    Libs so terrified of public debt, yet their companies rely on borrowing for growth.

    [Barnaby Joyce likens national debt to skin cancer: “as a financial melanoma, it will kill you” ]

  46. zoidlord


    “ONE of the highest profile members of the Institute of Public ­Affairs has left the think tank’s staff after a crackdown on social media exposed questionable tweets about Islam and federal Labor. Alan Moran, the IPA’s former director of deregulation, was also a high-profile campaigner against “green radicals’’ and militant unionism. “

  47. guytaur

    Morrison presser now

  48. zoidlord


    No doubt boasting Team Australia, National Security etc?

  49. guytaur

    Morrison said he needs a good optometrist at the Human Rghts Hearing. No wonder if he cannot tell the difference between Marles and Senator Hanson Young.

  50. poroti

    Scrot should be warmed up nicely after going straight from 2GB to presser.

  51. lizzie

    [BUSINESSES in the south-west (Vic) tied to the fate of the wind industry have made a last-minute plea for the government to save the renewable energy industry.

    More than 200 people packed a Portland meeting yesterday addressed by the major parties and former Liberal leader John Hewson.

    Dr Hewson delivered a stinging attack on the federal government amid rumours Prime Minister Tony Abbott is poised to axe the renewable energy target (RET) that has propped up the industry and driven investment.

    Business leaders warn up to 170 jobs will be lost immediately in Portland alone if the target is scrapped. ]


  52. victoria


    Team Labor are in agreement with the majority of asylum seeke policy, considering they re introduced off shore processing. This is not going to change any time soon. Especially in light of the serious unrest in the middle east. Labor are of the view that the public want an orderly refugee processing system, and the people smuggler mode goes against the grain.

  53. zoidlord

    Public service payouts reaching to $1 billion apparently.

    So much about saving money.

  54. guytaur


    How many people smugglers have been arrested?

    How many years of failed policy does there need to be before the myth of the unorderly queue is destroyed by Labor.

    Australia has never had the numbers Italy is coping with.

    We can process AS onshore or if worried about drowning in Indonesia and Malaysia. In both cases we only accept refugees the others are refused.

    That is the “queue counter.”

  55. guytaur

    “@political_alert: Opposition Leader Bill Shorten and Shadow Treasurer Chris Bowen will hold a doorstop on the Budget, 10:40am, Parliament #auspol”

  56. zoidlord

    newmatilda ‏@newmatilda 1m

    The Great Australian Ponzi Scheme, Also Known As ‘Our Economy’: Our economic reliance on natural resources for… http://bit.ly/1vcZno3

  57. zoidlord

    Retweeted by sortius
    Kemal Atlay ‏@kemal_atlay 52m

    Worrying piece by David Marr on ASIO’s growing power & the indefinite detention of refugees @SatPaper #auspol http://www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au/opinion/topic/2014/08/23/asios-indefinite-detention-beyond-reason-or-doubt/1408716000#.U_pzXLwsJuA

  58. guytaur


    I think Labor has nothing to lose by going to that reality and argument. Being Liberal lite is not winning for them as Morrison is claiming and being believed by those voters that are for tough AS policy that Labor is as “soft” as the Greens.

    This while PUP which does have the same approach as the Greens gets ignored. The political reality by being Liberal lite Labor is losing more votes than it gains on this issue. Getting all the blame and none of the benefits of being “soft”

  59. lizzie


    [THE divorce settlement of corruption whistleblower Kathy Jackson is likely to be drawn into a royal commission investigation because she paid her ex-husband large sums of cash from the union she controlled after their ­separation.

    Ms Jackson’s ex-­husband, Jeff Jackson, will be called as a ­surprise witness at the royal ­commission into union ­corruption in Sydney later this week.]

  60. guytaur

    “@Kate_McClymont: Watson SC to Wills: You were the person organising the money from A to B, sounds pre-tty much like central involvement to me! #icac”

    Federal Libs being dragged in?

  61. victoria


    I am merely stating that the majority of Australians want an orderly system and do not like “irregular unauthorised arrivals”. The measures put in place are draconian and do not sit well with me. But there is no doubt that there have been hardly any more people smuggling operations since

  62. guytaur

    “@MWhitbourn: We’ve had a breakthrough.Wills agrees she “knew at all times that Buildev was funding an anti-Labor campaign in the seat of Newcastle” #ICAC”

    “@MWhitbourn: “It’s better to get it off your chest,” #ICAC counsel tells Ann Wills, in the hopes we might have a fully-fledged outbreak of honesty.”

  63. victoria


    Days of our lives comes to mind when thinking of KJackson

  64. guytaur


    Thats not orderly that is saying there is no product to queue for under this government. Breaking the refugee convention.

    Rudd was negotiating for the process them in Indonesia, Malaysia etc. Called a regional solution.

    A very big difference. The difference from the Greens is that the Greens want a maximum cap put on time in detention of months not years and we don’t punish the AS for how they got in the queue


  65. guytaur

    oops ignore the However

  66. guytaur

    “@joeobrien24: Andrew Wilkie media conf due to start shortly on @abcnews24 – live from Hobart.”

  67. victoria


    Personally i prefer we get all our refugees from those waiting forever in camps, and not those with the financial means prepared to pay smugglers who supply rickety boats with the added risks of drowning.

  68. guytaur


    Thats buying the false argument about economic refugees. Its a way of avoiding that people smugglers are not being arrested because of the reality of needing international cooperation.

  69. victoria

    Wilkie presser

  70. guytaur

    Wilkie making good sense on Iraq

  71. guytaur

    Shorten presser

  72. victoria

    ABC cut away from Wilkie to go to Bill Shorten presser with Bowen

  73. guytaur

    Good strong message from Labor here

  74. CTar1

    [the NSW Public Service]

    Does such a thing exist?

  75. guytaur

    [The de facto Prime Minister Clive Palmer]

    Good line

  76. CTar1


    [Tuned to 2GB to see what is on their menu today]

    You get what you deserve.

  77. Raaraa

    855 lizzie

    Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/comment/labor8217s-east-west-link-8216policy8217-is-pathetic-20140820-1069pz.html#ixzz3BLZsMfXl

    From a link within the comments,


    It looks like Transurban will finance the upgrade of the Bell Street Exit.

    Someone should ask the Napthine government on whether this will result in the sections around Bell St being made into a tollway.

  78. victoria

    shorten and Bowen were very firm about their stance on the current budget.

  79. guytaur


    Yes excellent presser from them.

  80. victoria

    300 jobs t go from Caltex

  81. poroti


    Yes, very much self inflicted.

  82. guytaur

    Thats good the Shorten presser is on the repeat cycle for 24 today

  83. CTar1


    ‘However’, ignore the however?

    Circuitous, to say the least.

  84. J341983

    A friend of mine is involved with the Libs, pretty high in Vic and I just spoke to him… he was naturally cagey, knowing my connection to the ALP, but he thinks Newspoll is closer the real situation than Galaxy.

  85. lizzie

    [ABC News ‏@abcnews 3m
    Homelessness study finds Mission Australia long-term housing program could save government millions
    http://ab.co/1t5dRp0 ]

  86. victoria


    Are you talking about state vic poll?

  87. J341983

    Yup, the state poll.

  88. poroti


    [Propaganda coming from Turnbulls office ]
    Love the weasel wording…… which still required asterisks. The only “The sky’s the limit” is how high Turnbull will pile the bullshit .

    [Mr McInnes has been able to reach download speeds of up to 96 mbps and upload speeds of up to 30 mbps*]

  89. victoria



  90. CTar1


    Talc well into ‘dog shit is OK to eat’ ground these days.

  91. Roger Miller

    It’s easier to achieve high speeds when there is only one customer. We have to wait to see if vectoring Will mittigate the interference of multiple customers.

  92. zoidlord

    Glenn Lazarus PUP making SOME sense, we need to stimulate the economy.


    “Lazarus says there’s a case right now to stimulate the economy and reward people who want to work. He says we need to keep more money in the economy rather than taxing businesses. He thinks people know how to spend their money. Governments, by contrast, waste money. (How that fits with the stimulus call is a bit difficult to judge.) He’s asked about the finance minister, Mathias Cormann’s recent threat about increased taxes if the budget measures don’t pass.”

    But sounds like backing gov on terrorism, he’s only reading what he’s seeing in the media it seems:

    “The threat of terrorism attacks is certainly on our doorstep. We see it in the media all the time.”

    Retweeted by ACOSS
    AusAffordableHousing ‏@HousingStressed 18m

    Houses overvalued by up to 30 per cent, says ex-RBA official http://www.afr.com/f/free/blogs/christopher_joye/houses_overvalued_official_up_to_OaTjLJaWNe179RZAhcUzJI

  93. CTar1


    [e have to wait to see if vectoring Will mittigate the interference of multiple customers.]

    Some number of dumb fcuks who think that this will work any time soon should be sent on a freebie to Metropolitan London.

  94. CTar1


    It’s lunchtime. I’ll do left-over Chinese rather than the Talc prescription.

  95. zoomster

    [The difference from the Greens is that the Greens want a maximum cap put on time in detention of months not years and we don’t punish the AS for how they got in the queue..]

    Ah, so guytaur is a Green now? It’s so hard to keep up.

  96. CTar1


    Slotted & potted long ago.

  97. bemused


    The difference from the Greens is that the Greens want a maximum cap put on time in detention of months not years and we don’t punish the AS for how they got in the queue..

    Ah, so guytaur is a Green now? It’s so hard to keep up.

    No, no, no… you’ve got it all wrong!
    Guytaur is not a Green, he is merely indistinguishable from one.

    Clear now? 😉

  98. psyclaw

    Just in car for an hour … channel surfing and ended at John Laws show, with Xenephon being interviewed.

    He says “Labor and Greens should support Direct Action or else there’ll be no climate change remedial action being done by Australia at all”

    Next he’ll be arguing on the same basis that the government should pay big emitter corporations to have their employees piss into the wind.

    I thought he was a bit brighter than that.

  99. daretotread

    Bemused and Zoomster

    Guytaur has always been a green and made no secret of it.

    He clearly also has strong ALP connections but is a green first.

  100. Libertarian Unionist

    [I thought he was a bit brighter than that.]

    This is the same Senator X who thinks that allowing first home buyers to dip into their superannuation will make housing more affordable, yes?

    He has good opinions on gambling when it comes to poker machines, but gambling your future wealth with the banks and the property market is a-OK, apparently.

  101. CTar1


    [allowing first home buyers to dip into their superannuation will make housing more affordable,]

    Talking seriously fruit-cake.

  102. zoidlord


    Senator X has vested interests in housing properties (as much as the rest of Parliament does), no real surprise on his policy on first home buyers.

  103. Libertarian Unionist

    [Talking seriously fruit-cake.]


  104. zoidlord

    sortius ‏@sortius 3m

    Obviously @TurnbullMalcolm’s promise to remediate copper was bullshit, much like the speeds of his FTTN trial #NBN

  105. bemused


    Bemused and Zoomster

    Guytaur has always been a green and made no secret of it.

    He clearly also has strong ALP connections but is a green first.

    Right, so a denial is not making a secret of it?

  106. CTar1


    Financing Real Estate is just impossible for our next.

    Years ago I lucked on a Central London flat. It was doable but took 30 years to complete.

    My only child bought a percentage of this from me recently (being affluent disappeared in a puff of smoke when she was offered an ‘equity partnership’).

    I live in a decent rental that recently went on sale. I had a go at it but HSBC said too dodgy.

    So Melinda’s children will not be able to own.

    Things have gone astray.

  107. zoidlord

    sortius ‏@sortius 2m

    .@Elaine_de_Saxe @BFP73 This is as clear as it’ll get #NBN pic.twitter.com/KiW1EnP7n6

    “We are very happy with Martin’s experienc ewith the NBN. Martin recieved services over a trial fibre to the node (FTTN) connection. Your ability to work from home depends on external factors like your work’s IT policy and infrastructure. Your experience, including speed, depends on the NBN technology used to develiver services to you and factors outside our control, including length and quality of the copper line to your premises (for FTTN), your equipment, connection quality, software, broadband plan and service provider’s network design.”

  108. victoria

    [A NSW Liberal MP voted for a controversial council plan to rezone land for a 2000-lot residential development owned by Nathan Tinkler months after receiving a secret $18,000 campaign donation from the businessman.

    When Bart Bassett was a local councillor in May 2011, he voted for a new ­residential land strategy for the City of Hawkesbury on Sydney’s north-west fringe. The strategy favoured Mr ­Tinkler’s company, Buildev.

    The strategy was approved six months after the coal baron gave $18,000 to Mr Bassett’s successful campaign for the state seat of Londonderry.]


  109. Steve777

    Allowing people to dip into their Super will not fix housing affordability. So people are allowed to take, say, 20,000 from their Super. So they can borrow 100,000 more. Guess what happens? Median house price jump by about 100,000. We’ve seen the same with so-called ‘first home buyers’ grants – they actually turn out to be grants to vendors of homes to first time buyers. Something similar happened when interest rates greatly reduced around the turn of the century.

    The problem is the way the market operates. Maybe negative gearers and overseas investors are bidding up prices. There may also be a supply problem. We need to look at what is different about the Australian market as compared to more affordable markets overseas, or to times when our market was more affordable.

    But increasing purchasing power just seems to ratchet up prices and that ultimately helps no one except the real estate industry and developers.

  110. victoria

    And Mumble gets paid for this analysis?

    Victoria is the most pro-Labor state in the country (the other contender, at least at the last federal election, is Tasmania), the Abbott government is not popular and the government has had problems. Given polls like this, if someone forced you to nominate the likely winner on 29 November, it would make sense to go for Labor.
    But let’s wait for more of them, closer to the event. ]


  111. cud chewer

    Turnbull’s selling of fraudband reminds me of the droid from the original Judge Dredd movie

    [Eat recycled food. It’s good for the environment and its “ok” for you.]

  112. sprocket_

    AstroTurfing 101 was going on in Newcastle FED UP campaign. Check the alternate messaging..

    @MWhitbourn: Please note “supplementary messages” for anti-Labor Fed Up campaign included “Pay Up”, “Touch Up” & “Giddy Up” #ICAC http://t.co/2kYk1MiNyr

  113. Pegasus

    As long as I have been around PB (6 years or so), Guytaur has never claimed to be a Greens. He consistently explains his position as being between Labor and the Greens.

  114. bemused


    As long as I have been around PB (6 years or so), Guytaur has never claimed to be a Greens. He consistently explains his position as being between Labor and the Greens.

    A slippery character indeed. 😛

  115. Libertarian Unionist

    [But increasing purchasing power just seems to ratchet up prices and that ultimately helps no one except the real estate industry and developers.]


  116. Pegasus

    What is and isn’t a soverign risk applied to the federal sphere:

    [The use of the term “sovereign risk” by Trade Minister Andrew Robb to describe the federal budget stalling in the senate shows just how fast and loosely the term has come to be used.


    Trade Minister Andrew Robb seems to be interpreting sovereign risk as the threat to foreign confidence in doing business with Australia, driven by perceptions of exchange rate uncertainty and potential instability in the Australian economy. This is seen as arising from anything which would prevent the government from implementing its budget measures, willy nilly.

    Changes to government regulation which affect the profitability of particular businesses, as in the Renewable Energy Target removal have also entered the broad church of increasing sovereign risk. It may not be wise policy, but to argue that such measures amount to a sovereign risk is drawing a very long bow indeed.]

  117. Pegasus

    It’s just business. The profits to be gained from the offshore and onshore mandatory detention of asylum seekers.

    [The Australian government’s policy of mandatory detention for asylum seekers has benefited contractors by up to $10bn since mid-2007. I

    From this estimate, offshore-related contracts were worth $859,363 a person, more than five times the spend for onshore-related contracts, which were worth $157,014 a person. Community detention related contracts were even cheaper again, at only $21,952 a person.]


  118. Pegasus

    Well, that’s my lunch break over. Enjoy the rest of your afternoon 🙂

  119. CTar1


    [Well, that’s my lunch break over.]

    Stop complaining.

    Reports tell me that you’ve done a Blueberry Muffin before lunch.

  120. Steve777

    The term ‘Sovereign Risk’ is bandied about with reckless (or even ‘gay’) abandon. It seems to be applied to the actions of Labor governments (and now Labor oppositions) when they do anything that big business or its political wing (a.k.a. the Liberal Party) don’t like.

    The term should be banished from the public lexicon until and unless there is an actual problem. Corporations (especially Newscorp) are perfectly free to bugger off to Mauritania, Chad or Tajikistan if they think they can do better there: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Country_risk

  121. guytaur

    Wow I go away for lunch look what happens 😆


    It may help you if you remember I am not a member of a political party or rusted on. This means I try and vote to maximise the influence of the left side of politics without being stupid about it by voting for a group like Resistance.

  122. Puff, the Magic Dragon.

    The only sovereign risk is Hockey taking all our sovereigns.

  123. Steve777

    Re Pegasus @981: for that much we could put them all up in penthouse suites in London or New York or send them on end to end luxury round the world cruises. It seems an awful lot of money to spend to punish people for being victims.

  124. CTar1


    I note from Peg’s last that you’re are a


    Rather than a


    Is there some distinction I’m missing?

  125. guytaur


    You will have to ask Peg that one its a distinction new to me as well

  126. sprocket_

    Rundle unusually making sense to day in Crikey newsletter

    [This is a government without a three-month plan, much less a three-year one, so far as anyone can detect — and the failure seems to be one of leadership. The strong sense is that ministers like Pyne and Cormann — absent of any co-ordination of a central message — are just playing it as individual operators. This is always the great danger for a Liberal Party, based on the creed of individualism — its ability to generate the sort of teeth-grinding commitment to solidarity in the last instance that Labor can produce is diminished by its very conception of the world. There is, at the moment, no clear picture of who’s actually running the show as we go into this fortnight, despite a series of rolling crisis meetings.

    Maybe they have a deal ready to go, and this was all — given Mr Tony’s fireman metaphor — a smokescreen. But the strong suspicion is, while we’re having a metaphor clear-out, that they’re not the firemen come to put out the fire, they’re the strippers dressed as firemen, come to goose up Madison’s hens’ night. You can leave your hats on, fellas — you may not be staying long.]

  127. WeWantPaul

    [And Mumble gets paid for this analysis?

    Mumbles analysis is and always has been very good. I think he is missing some big influence post GFC (not entirely sure but i think we got used to a house inflation based consumer world that has – or should have – finished) but his basic premise is very insightful.

  128. guytaur


    I hope David Rowe does not read that Rundle piece. Cabinets strippers will be too much.

  129. bemused


    Wow I go away for lunch look what happens


    It may help you if you remember I am not a member of a political party or rusted on. This means I try and vote to maximise the influence of the left side of politics without being stupid about it by voting for a group like Resistance.

    Yes, I’ve got it.
    Writes like a Green, thinks like a Green, etc, but definitely isn’t a Green.

    Makes perfect sense to me. 😀

  130. guytaur

    @kit_lowe: MOODYS downgrade Western Australia to AA1 from AAA #ausbiz

  131. CTar1


    If you can’t make the bottom of the Garden or climb a tree may be the difference.

  132. guytaur


    Yeah that could be it or chaining oneself to a coal loader

  133. guytaur

    presser Brendan O Connor 24

  134. zoidlord


    He’s also selling our Sovereign Risk via TPP agreements.

  135. CTar1



    A coat loader in your garden?


    You’re really trying me out now.

  136. guytaur

    “@ABCNews24: Live: Archbishop of Melbourne Denis Hart is being questioned at the inquiry into child sex abuse. Watch http://t.co/uCb4PpCldC”

  137. Martin B

    There are more people on the left who would like to see the Greens and ALP work together more and who will agree or disagree with either party depending on the issue than there are in both parties combined, but that is difficult to realise for partisans (of either party) who insist on thinking of everyone as either one or the other and who interpret a primary vote for one party as a complete denunciation of the other.

  138. Nicholas

    Victoria, I think that Mumble’s column oscillates between trite observations about polls and sweeping, unsubstantiated calls about how politics works. He lacks the patience and insight to do the big picture connecting of the dots embodied by Andrew Elder’s work on political and media dynamics. He also lacks the statistical nous to provide rigorous analysis of electoral probabilities. He is sort of stranded in no man’s land between those two approaches to political analsysi.

  139. guytaur

    @MWhitbourn: To help speed things up, some witnesses have been taken off the list. Includes Liberal fundraiser John Hart http://t.co/sW1NmcKCeT #ICAC

  140. J341983

    So what are we expecting PvO’s wanky tweet will be this evening…

  141. CTar1

    guytaur – Challenging question I know …

    [ who insist on thinking of everyone as either one or the other and who interpret a primary vote for one party as a complete denunciation of the other.]

    Are you feeling like a nude nun?

    ‘Waiting in West Belco’.

    (Total 😀 in hand)

  142. shellbell

    Makes sense that ICAC would drop federal figures like Hart given the time constraints it is under and its NSW remit

  143. Nicholas

    Martin, I was ratified as a Queensland Greens member last week. I think the ALP and the Greens should differentiate themselves from each other in constructive, positive ways. Talk about how the other party emphasizes different issues and approaches an issue from a different angle or historical context. Express disappointment about what you see as the other party’s blindspots and shortcomings. But don’t resort to petulant attacks and for God’s sake don’t make disastrous preferencing decisions which help conservative candidates. I was dismayed when Christine Milne blamed the demise of the carbon tax on Julia Gillard. The carbon tax was a joint legislative achievement of Labor and the Greens. On that policy, Labor and the Greens were friends, and it’s poor form to slap a friend in the face. It’s also electorally counterproductive – it makes Christine Milne look too negative and makes the centre-left perspective in general look disorganized and unprofessional.

  144. poroti

    Goodness Barnyard went the HYPER Bowl. We’ll all be rooned.

    [ Barnaby Joyce’s claims ‘ill-judged rhetoric’ ……

    “we’ll be closing hospitals, we won’t have an ABC, we won’t be able to defend ourselves because we will have run out of money”.]


  145. poroti

    Someone asked what the kerfuffle is over in NZ politics is about. This is a good article on it. Would be great if the same sort of people are exposed here.

    [Dirty politics: New Zealand’s own House of Cards is collapsing

    Personal attacks, back stabbings, bloggers secretly working alongside politicians: New Zealand’s latest political scandal has all the makings of a US drama – but it’s real life

    •The whale that swallowed New Zealand’s election campaign

    Hager has obtained information, emails and Facebook messages from the files of right-wing blogger Cameron Slater, founder of the Whale Oil website. The documents show a deep and intimate connection between Slater and Jason Ede, former senior advisor to Key.

    The situation is made worse by the allegation that a senior cabinet minister, Judith Collins, established close ties to Slater to bash enemies. Hager claims that the blogger, with the assistance of Ede, breached an unsecured opposition party Labor computer to obtain private information. Labor party head David Cunliffe says the allegations are “the closest New Zealand’s got to its own kind of Watergate”.
    …………..Something that doesn’t come across in the news coverage about Dirty Politics, and Cameron Slater, Jason Ede, Jordan Williams, Simon Lusk et al is just how fucking awful these people are. They spend their lives trying to poison and contaminate our politics. They enjoy seeing people suffer. They get excited by the idea of breaking up the marriages of their political enemies and ruining their lives.]


  146. CTar1


    [ we won’t be able to defend ourselves because we will have run out of money”.]

    Ignore NZ politics.

    Barn-yabbi a scream.

  147. bemused



    we won’t be able to defend ourselves because we will have run out of money”.

    Ignore NZ politics.

    Barn-yabbi a scream.

    Just print some more. Simple.

    Well, not a good answer, but something at about their level of sophistication.

  148. poroti


    I can combine both. The Yabby’s dad is from UnZud 🙂

  149. zoomster

    I tried writing the transcript of the last news report from the ABC, circa 2024, talking of the invasion of Sydney and Melbourne without a punch being thrown, and the closure of all medical facilities – all because Labor and the Greens ‘got in the way’ of budget reforms in 2014…but it was all too silly.

  150. CTar1

    poroti /bemused

    [ The Yabby’s dad is from UnZud ]

    I need to say nothing more.

  151. Just Me

    MartinB @ 1001

    I keep trying to point out this obvious fact to those two parties: Figure out either a workable truce, or how to enjoy the view from the opposition benches. There are no alternatives.

    Hint: Choose the first option.

  152. citizen

    MH17 provides a poll boost to Dutch PM Rutte despite an unpopular budget – somewhat akin to Abbott:

    [In standing up to Russian President Vladimir Putin, Rutte risks hurting the Dutch economy and losing jobs as a result of sanctions. Yet his moves to push forward a Dutch-led probe into the disaster and to sanction Russia for a failure to press the rebels to cooperate have heightened his profile abroad and drawn praise at home, boosting poll ratings that had been hit by the government’s austerity program.]


  153. CTar1


    [to Dutch PM Rutte]

    The Continental ‘E’ is a ‘A’.

    Make what that of you can.

  154. citizen

    Here’s one for our Defence Minister – the stealth attack boat:

    [This Stealth Attack Boat May Be Too Innovative for the Pentagon]


  155. zoidlord

    I doubt there be many MH17 like accidents that last a couple of years, domestic issues are prevalent.

    Drought, Jobs, Economy, etc.


    “However, one Mary Valley farmer wanted to know why she was not able to receive the assistance, claiming the department ignored fruit and vegetable growers as primary producers.”

    “DAFF confirmed the drought relief was designed primarily to help livestock producers, but said there was assistance available for other growers. “

  156. lefty e

    [WA downgraded to Aa1:]

    But but…liberals….debt…economic management!

  157. kakuru

    lefty e:

    [But but…liberals….debt…economic management!]

    Shhhh! Don’t think about it. Look over there, terrorists!

  158. zoidlord

    Sounds like part of the deal with NBN Co is to get Telstra to drop it’s Foxtel pricing:


  159. shellbell

    Why the hope that ICAC will deliver something to the ALP in NSW comes up short:

    [Kate McClymont ‏@Kate_McClymont · 4m
    Glad to see in ‘Joe notes’ that Tinkler & co going to contact that crooked duo Tony Kelly & Warwick Watkins to c if “still onside” #icac]

  160. sprocket_

    [Posted Monday, August 25, 2014 at 3:25 pm | PERMALINK

    to Dutch PM Rutte

    The Continental ‘E’ is a ‘A’.

    Make what that of you can.]

    Does that make him a RupertRutte? Like his Australian counterpart, a card carrying RupertRooter.

  161. zoomster

    I do like the new meme – that something’s gone wrong with politics.

    The media rubbished the Labor government (most of us would argue unfairly). Now this government is an utter disaster. Who to blame?

    It couldn’t possibly be that the media got it wrong (so Labor must have been more of a disaster than Abbott is) or that they did something wrong (so it’s not that this was perfectly predictable, only they unaccountably failed to do all the work needed to predict it), so it must be politics that’s broken.

    I used to think that the media was biased, and used that to explain both the unthinking slurring of all things Labor (I once challenged a journalist about referring to the ‘failed BER’ and asked him how it had failed. He got back to me and said that there was no evidence it had, it was just a rhetorical flourish…) whilst accepting everything Abbott said with open mouthed awe.

    Now I just think they’re (as a generalisation) lazy and ignorant.

    I think, if I had the choice, I’d rather people thought I was biased…

  162. William Bowe

    Morgan: ALP 38.5 (+0.5); L-NP 37.5 (-); GRN 10.5 (-0.5); PUP 4.5 (-1). Respondent-allocated 2PP: 55.5-44.5, down from 56-44. Previous election 2PP: steady at 54-54.

  163. sprocket_


    The ICAC question was asked in today’s Galaxy

    @GhostWhoVotes: #Galaxy Poll NSW How #ICAC has influenced voting intentions. #nswpol #auspol http://t.co/rBrvisQBOj

  164. Fran Barlow


    I have no problem at all with the ALP openly disputing our policy positions, and believe we ought to do the same when we regard them as being wrong. Robust, rigorous argument is clarifying, and can provoke both the parties to reflect on what is best.

    The Greens are clearly mistaken, IMO, in some areas of policy — nuclear power being perhaps the most obvious. Equally, the ALP policy on PPL, though still undesirable in my view, is less undesirable than ours. I don’t, as a matter of principle, oppose the G&ST and under certain circumstances wouldn’t oppose raising it, say, to 15%. There’s not much in principle wrong with HECS.

    So if the ALP criticises us on these matters, I’m reasonably happy with this. (OK, they aren’t going to criticise us on our opposition to nuclear power and suggest we take a technology neutral approach to decarbonisation).

    For our part, I’m very keen for us to go hard at the ALP over its support for mandatory detention, and its craven responses to taxation and rent-seeking more generally by the big end of town, its surplus fetishism, its support for militant Zionism and invading other countries when the US does. We ought to argue this stuff out.

    I think it’s fair to say that Julia Gillard mishandled the early part of the MPCCC process, allowing the proposal to be framed as “a carbon tax”. To be fair though, there was plenty of loose talk amongst our own ranks about having “a carbon tax” so the blame for this ought to be shared about. We ought to have been a good deal more disciplined on this one ourselves. I lost track of the number of times I found myself cautioning fellow Greens not to allow the right to call it a tax.

    More broadly though, the fall of the regime was not due to the fact of the carbon pricing, but rather, about perceived dysfunction within government which was amped up greatly by Murdoch. The poor handling of Rudd (and Murdoch) by the ALP from 2010 onwards really sealed their fate, and with it, the fate of carbon pricing. Gillard was obviously responsible in a corporate sense, for the poor mishandling of these challenges but she was clearly only one of those who has to accept some of the responsibility.

    I’d like to see disputes, when they arise, dealt with as much as possible on their substance rather than on the personalities involved. That’s where the arguments should be.

  165. sprocket_


    [Previous election 2PP: steady at 54-54.]

  166. Puff, the Magic Dragon.

    Classic PJK! from @TroyBramston piece in today’s The Australian. @GhostOfPJK #auspol pic.twitter.com/eQYTD8yh0Z— Gino Mandarino (@GinoMandarino) August 24, 2014

  167. shellbell


    20% vote for someone one else! NSW may end up with a Greens/Christian Democrat coalition

  168. Just Me


    Morgan: L-NP 37.5 (-)

    Does (-) mean no change, or just a typo?

  169. paaptsef

    Today is 5 months since Abbott announced to parliament that he knew where MH370 was. How is that coming along?

  170. zoidlord


    “Cabinet is still downstairs contemplating whether or not the budget is a) a marathon, or b) a melanoma. In addition to the shadow cabinet meeting today, caucus has also met. I should be able to bring you some particulars from that in a little while.”

  171. jeffemu

    paaptsef @ 1039

    Today is 5 months since Abbott announced to parliament that he knew where MH370 was. How is that coming along?


    No need to worry about that time span from his MH370 announcement to the House.

    The way things are going at the moment I expect the Lying Friar to drop another big doozey at around 2pm tomorrow afternoon. Maybe he has found Harold Holt.

    Speaking of tomorrow I think that Madame Speaker might have to be on her guard. There is a lot of fib ministers that are going to need a lot of protection.

  172. tielec

    45% of people are not influenced by ICAC to change their vote. One wonders what it would take for them to change? Absolutely incredible how apathetic we are towards ICAC.

  173. zoomster

    What happened to MH370 is an on water operational matter, so if Abbott did tell us, he’d have to kill us.

    Rest assured, though, once we’ve invaded Russia and deposed Putin, he will be able to finally tell us The Truth.

  174. shellbell

    [One wonders what it would take for them to change?]

    The % of no change presumably is a function of people who want to vote for a major party and regard their preference as no worse than the other when it comes to corruption

  175. DisplayName

    Following on from the thought bubble of Labor putting up some of its own budget legislation, and given the threat from the Libs on raising taxes, I reckon Labor could put up (what they believe to be) a fair adjustment to taxes and say they’re helping the Liberals fix the Liberals’ mess of an unfair budget because the Liberals obviously can’t figure out how to fix it fairly themselves, that they are obviously paralysed, can’t do much more than huff and puff at everyone and need a bit of a push to get things going.

  176. zoidlord

    Labor will support:

    Migration Amendment (Protection and Other Measures) Bill:

    “but oppose schedule two. According to the bill’s explanatory memorandum schedule one “contains amendments which contribute to the integrity and improve the efficiency of the onshore protection status determination process.”

    Labor will oppose ARENA repeal bill.

    Labor will support crackdown on the synthetic drug trade.

    Labor will oppose a social security bill which converts student start up scholarships into loans.

    Refer to 1040 for link.

  177. citizen

    Kim Williams blasts Murdoch and the Coalition:


    Former News Corporation Australia chief executive Kim Williams says politicians attempted to bully him in the role.

    Mr Williams will not specify the politicians who behaved inappropriately, but says they included Coalition ministers…

    He has also hit out at former News Corp colleagues who he says have personally attacked him in the company’s newspapers, blaming Mr Williams for the organisation’s poor performance…

    “Big mastheads which represented a huge repository of public trust do not enjoy that status anymore. In fact, consumers tend to trust their friends, and even online stranger communities, more than they do established print mastheads.”

    Mr Williams has also described Rupert Murdoch as taking a “feudal” approach to running the company.

    When asked by presenter Eleanor Hall what he meant, Mr Williams did not hold back.

    “Feudal implies a notion of there being a lord and then a hierarchy and bunch of serfs. It’s a pretty traditional description Eleanor, I don’t think I’m reinventing language here,” he added.]


  178. jeffemu

    Just a heads up for all the old hips… did anyone watch the doco on SBS last night … Searching For Sugar Man (Rodriguez)

    Great and interesting doco.

    You can watch it on ‘ondemand’ on our SBS


  179. DisplayName

    Most companies are structured feudally.

  180. poroti

    Meanwhile it turns out Big Bird is yellow and General PMBO will be limited to talking the talk in Iraq.

    [Australia’s potential military role in Iraq is limited, strategic experts say

    Military analysts say it’s not clear what would be achieved by the deployment of Australian forces other than symbolic support of the US alliance]

  181. tielec

    Jeffemu – as a young man of 20, only a few years ago (seriously), I was down in a holiday home of a friend’s father. He had an old turntable and a collection of LPs – some good ones Billy Joel, Thriller, Led Zeppelin etc…

    Yet the record that got played the most, by far, was Rodriguez. Sugar man is one of my favourite songs ever – although I did have to download it. When I looked into the history of Rodriguez there was barely anything written up – the doco was extremely interesting.

  182. guytaur

    ******* David Marr Alert *******

    “@SteveCannane: Coming up on #thedrum Paul Kelly, David Marr & @KerryChika 530pm on @ABCTV repeat at 9 on @ABCNews24”

  183. Raaraa

    Libertarian Unionist
    Posted Monday, August 25, 2014 at 12:23 pm

    This is the same Senator X who thinks that allowing first home buyers to dip into their superannuation will make housing more affordable, yes?

    He has good opinions on gambling when it comes to poker machines, but gambling your future wealth with the banks and the property market is a-OK, apparently.

    Not a big supporter of X by miles, but to be fair, investment in the property market has to be much more calculated and less volatile than gambling. At the worse, your wealth growth would be zero. It is much less risky than some fund investments.

    I think if we do go down this path, the superannuation rules will probably require you to insure the property and have done proper valuations and checks the same way the banks do when you take a home loan from them.

  184. zoidlord

    Another pollie after big bucks via books.

    I note in passing that former News Corp boss Kim Williams has rivalled Nick Xenophon for interviews undertaken in a single day. Williams is out and about at present promoting his new book, Rules of Engagement. Processes like this tend to trigger a hall of mirrors experience where competing versions of history are traded in public. I think that’s a polite way of putting it – the media’s capacity to turn on one another is legend.”

  185. zoidlord

    Mathias is out on twitter again, going after Bill saying he does not do maths.

    (which I find hilarious coming from the party who believed the NBN will cost $79 billion dollars).

  186. Fran Barlow


    I’d be opposed to allowing super to be used in this way. In the long run, all it can do is force up housing prices to a new equilibrium, undermining the value of superannuation and harming those priced out of the market. Bearing in mind the already generous tax treatment of the principal place of residence and super amongst those best placed to exploit such a program this would be quite regressive.

  187. Raaraa


    That being said, where I came from in Singapore, we had the equivalent to Superannuation and it allows people to use that money as a payment towards their public housing apartments. This has worked out rather well, however, these apartments are comparable in price to properties in inner-city Melbourne and Sydney, with the record high of close to a million dollar for the most expensive.

    Remember that we’re talking public housing here. To be fair though, Singapore is strapped for land, but I don’t know if this translate well to Australia’s situation.

  188. poroti


    [(which I find hilarious coming from the party who believed the NBN will cost $79 billion dollars).]
    $79billion ? Goodness , if only they were that good. They used the patented HoJo Eleventy Seven financial calculator and got $94 billion.

    [Will the NBN cost $94 billion?

    ”We estimate that to complete the NBN according to the Labor Party’s plans will cost $94 billion dollars,” its spokesman Malcolm Turnbull said on Monday.]

  189. zoidlord

    Josh Taylor ‏@joshgnosis 3m

    That World Congress of Families event that Kevin Andrews is speaking at keeps having its venues cancel on it. http://m.samesame.com.au/news/11301/Theres-no-place-in-Australia-for-this-hate-conference

  190. Raaraa

    1056 Fran Barlow

    I don’t have enough data to back my own opinions and/or yours.

    Could it be possible that our already high prices are caused by other factors such as negative gearing and or less strict planning guidelines by our councils?

    The cost of housing seems to be the area least want to be handled by the government, other than the development of apartments in the inner-city areas.

    That being said, did Rudd’s housing grant drive housing prices up, or was any price rises attributed to some other reason?

  191. zoidlord


    Depends who they speak to at the time, one suggestion it was $100 billion by the same person:


  192. ruawake

    10-15 years ago land was 25-33% of the cost of building a new home, it is now 50%+.

    New home buyers are paying the various infrastructure levies upfront. There are arguments for and against this, but it is a major cause of housing price rises.

  193. zoidlord

    CHOICE ‏@choiceaustralia 1m

    Collapse of VIC travel agent will test consumer protection in newly deregulated travel market http://goo.gl/SJL1Jk

  194. bemused


    Today is 5 months since Abbott announced to parliament that he knew where MH370 was. How is that coming along?

    If he was that definitive, it would make the basis of a good question for QT tomorrow.

  195. Steve777

    Re Poroti @1008: (from quote by Barnaby Joyce)…“we’ll be closing hospitals, we won’t have an ABC …”.

    That is what will happen if the Coalition get a second term, regardless of what happens to this budget.

  196. Raaraa

    Suzanne Carbone ‏@SuzanneCarbone

    No wonder some people don’t call you back. An understadable newspaper correction #springst #auspol #ausmedia @meadea pic.twitter.com/HpPHLG0htK

  197. Raaraa

    chris murphy ‏@chrismurphys 2m
    Latest Morgan Poll.ALP support is strongest amongst women: ALP 58% well ahead of the
    L-NP 42% on a two-party preferred basis #auspol

  198. poroti


    [Re Poroti @1008: (from quote by Barnaby Joyce)…“we’ll be closing hospitals, we won’t have an ABC …”.]
    Ah, now I see, Barnyard was just stating LNP policy.

  199. BK

    zoidlord @ 1063
    Yet another green light delivered to the spivs by this disgraceful government!

  200. Dee

    11 April 2014

    [Australian Prime Minister says he is ‘very confident’ black box from missing Malaysia Airlines plane MH370 has been found.
    Unconfirmed reports have surfaced that MH370’s black box has been found Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott said he is ‘very confident’ the signals are from MH370]

  201. BK

    Barnaby Joyce as used a melanoma as a metaphor for “debt & deficit”. Could I suggest a rectal prolapse as one for their rotten budget?

  202. poroti

    Just looking at today’s headlines and goodness what a success our war mongering “freedom spreaders” projects have been.

    [IS fighters seize Syria airbase
    Libyan capital under Islamist control after Tripoli airport seized
    ISIS Is Laying Siege to Amirli, Iraq – TIME
    Taliban offensive in southern Afghan district ‘worst fighting’ in years]

  203. two bobs worth


    I see Finnane did over the former head of Sydney Ferries today!

  204. Fran Barlow


    If you want to bear down on house prices the way to do that is to tighten the investment pool bidding for stock. If you progressively increased required equity to loan ratios you’d eventually privilege saving over borrowing and take the heat out of housing markets. People buying with a view to capital gain would be discouraged and take their funds into equities or bonds.

    You could eventually have nearly everyone having a minimum stake of 20% in their residence. There would be a lot less turnover and nobody would be paying those huge mortgage insuraNce fees. Admittedly, state governments would need to find a new cash cow to replace stamp duty declines.

  205. don


    Barnaby Joyce as used a melanoma as a metaphor for “debt & deficit”. Could I suggest a rectal prolapse as one for their rotten budget?

    BK, fair go, it is almost dinner time!

    The image, the mental image……

  206. BK

    Here is the Canadian equivalent to our IPA.

  207. Phil Vee

    11April 2014
    “We are confident that we know the position of the black box flight recorder to within some kilometres,” Mr Abbott said.


    He was then contradicted by Angus Houston (and the American search team) but Abbott repeated his claim later that day before going into a meeting with the Chinese President. He spiced up that announcement by refusing to reveal secret details as it could distress the families of the passengers.

    There were no secret details, no pings were ever found to be real and the PM knowingly lied. The brazen nature of it is appalling .

  208. shellbell


    Seems Judge Finnane gave him a chance at home detention but presumably the report from probation and parole was no good.

    A plea in mitigation of sentence along the lines of I used the $200,000 to help fund the mortgage on my $2.2 million house is a titch unpersuasive.

  209. Dee

    They don’t just use Nazi imagery. Yeah, yeah, free speech and all that, I don’t give a stuff. This group is bad news and we shouldn’t allow it to flourish.

    [European Parliament MPs from the controversial Greek far-right political party Golden Dawn are set to visit Australia, the group’s local spokesman says.

    The party’s Australian representative told the ABC that the two men, both former army officers, would address events in Melbourne and Sydney in October.

    Golden Dawn has been strongly criticised in Europe for its use of pseudo-Nazi imagery and its violence against immigrants, who it partly blames for Greece’s economic malaise.]

  210. two bobs worth


    Michael was the President of our FEC for a number of years and I was Secretary.

    He lived in the Federal Electorate of Banks and later moved to Marrickville. I then took over the Presidency by ballot.

    His kids went to the same school as mine and we attended a lot of fundraising functions with our fellow ALP members.

    Did you know that he entered the Jesuit Order when he was young?

    His cousin Anne went to school with me and entered the Brigidines after the Leaving Certificate.

    While working in Glebe another ex priest called in for some help and he had left the Priesthood also and was a first cousin to both Anne and Michael.

    There you see the surrendering of your first child to the Church in practice.

    I was very fond of Michael he is a good bloke.

  211. Centre

    Do we have a full moon tonight?

  212. ruawake

    [Do we have a full moon tonight?]

    As likely as the Cows missing out on the 8. 😛

  213. bemused


    Do we have a full moon tonight?

    Hearing L O O N S howling?

  214. Centre


    They beat the Bunnies otherwise Gonski 😛


    I’m sure the executive management of the big banks would think so on a post I’ve read 😀

  215. bemused



    They beat the Bunnies otherwise Gonski


    I’m sure the executive management of the big banks would think so on a post I’ve read

    Which one was that?

  216. lizzie


    When the journos get sarcastic, I’m laughing.

    [Cabinet is still downstairs contemplating whether or not the budget is a) a marathon, or b) a melanoma. ]

  217. lizzie

    I’ve just been told by family that my Ken’s obituary is in The Age printed version today, but not online.

    That’s discrimination. 🙁

  218. guytaur


    That’s forcing people to buy thr print version to keep circulation up

  219. Bushfire Bill

    Classic quote from ABC-24 numpty… speaking of tweeting from the International Space Station…

    [“That classic social media space of… space.. just makes you want to be an astronaut, to go actually into… space.” ]

  220. lizzie


    [Concerns are mounting over a powerful new form of gonorrhoea after a patient was found to have the highest level of drug resistance to the disease ever reported in Australia.]


  221. Centre


    I’m sure the big banks would welcome regulation governing required equity for borrowings?

    I’ve got a Greens (puny) bet on the Panthers – starting soon 😎

  222. Steve777

    The fundamental problem with the housing market is speculation. Too many in the market are looking for an asset that will greatly appreciate in a few years, providing windfall gains. And much if this investment is using other peoples’ money, further distirting the market and the wider economy. It woukd be much better if housing were like other markets, i.e. that market players were either looking for a place to live or looking for rental income. As it is, people looking for a place to live are being outbid by speculators. And exponential growth in prices is ultimately unsustainable. One day it will all collapse in a heap.

  223. lizzie


    ABC24 really suffers from a lack of funds, doesn’t it!

  224. Centre


    purely to lower house prices.

    *catch later

  225. Bushfire Bill

    [ABC24 really suffers from a lack of funds, doesn’t it!]

    The thought that anyone would turn on the TV to listen to what they themselves had just been talking about on twitter during the day doesn’t quite mesh with my thinking gear.

  226. bemused


    I’ve just been told by family that my Ken’s obituary is in The Age printed version today, but not online.

    That’s discrimination.

    It is in my iPad subscription version of The Age.

  227. Puff, the Magic Dragon.

    Check this site, Ken’s obit. may turn up there.
    I could not find it just now, maybe in a few days.


  228. guytaur


    I think they are upholding the Charter. Providing information to those without twitter. Apparently there are some.

  229. AussieAchmed

    NBN $70bn…$90Bn it would make no difference because some corporation would by the Labor NBN

    The Liberal NonNBN will just be a millstone on the taxpayers with constant maintenance and replacement of 19th Century copper and losses through lack of decent speeds for business

  230. lizzie


    Why should an iPad version be different from my computer subscription version? This is crazy.

  231. Steve777

    Re Budget metaphors – I still like the one I mentioned in PB shortly after the Budget was dumped on an unsuspecting nation – the 80 foot, 80 ton dead whale that washed up on the beach next to a small town in Canadia: http://m.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-27210992

  232. guytaur

    David Marr was wrong on the Drum tonight. He said the lesson of Hewson’s Fightback was to not release your policies too early.

    He is wrong because the public rejected unfairness. If the reforms had been fair the early release would have made Hewson unassailable.

    Just like now early or late if its a turd the public will reject it.

  233. ruawake

    Did the Oz media almost entirely miss the fact that the Pan-Pac open water swimming event was cancelled on the Gold Coast because the venue and the backup venue had pollution levels that could endanger athletes?

    The event will be held in Hawaii instead. How embarrassing (if people knew about it).

  234. lizzie


    It wasn’t only that. Hewson was confused over explaining the detail. Now who else do we know who can’t get their story straight on the policies – far worse than Hewson.

  235. zoidlord

    Looks like a supporter for Mathias, or perhaps one of the many dodgy twitter accounts:

    Retweeted by Mathias Cormann
    jill #winkersunite ‏@SenateSabotaged 2h

    @MathiasCormann It is confusing for Bill. He thinks they delivered a surplus. Hard to see a problem after that. LOL

  236. AussieAchmed

    Typical of comments on #winkersunite

    jill #winkersunite‏@SenateSabotaged ·
    Axing TOXIC Co2 TAX
    & Stopping DEAD BABIES being scooped from the Ocean
    Still MORE than Labor did in 6 yrs #pmagenda #Enoughforme #Auspol

    I think #winkersunite is misspelt. There should be an “a” in there, and I don’t mean #winkersunate

  237. victoria

    Qanda tonight

    Gareth Evans – Former Australian Foreign Minister
    Paul Kelly – Editor-at-large The Australian
    Elizabeth Pisani – Author and Indonesia commentator
    Tasneem Chopra – Chair, Australian Muslim Women’s Centre for Human Rights
    Ali Alizadeh – Iranian-Australian author and academic

  238. poroti


    [He is wrong because the public rejected unfairness]
    Another lesson of Fightback was not to let Tony Abbott help write your policy.

  239. Rocket Rocket


    My condolences on your loss last month. I would have written at the time but was myself reeling from a colleague’s death.

    Reading “The Age” obituary Ken sounds like a remarkable guy and a real scientific “polymath”. His Honorary M.Sc. was clearly well-deserved.

    I recall you writing about what a character he was – I wonder if he ever caught up with ‘Olsen’s Standard Book of British Birds’ in Monty Python (originally in the 1948 Show)


  240. poroti

    Oh and not to let Tony ““You can tell the rental houses in a street” Abbott do any speech writing either.

  241. mikehilliard


    [the 80 foot, 80 ton dead whale that washed up on the beach]

    This is the only cure for beached whales and bad budgets.


  242. PeeBee

    Lizzie, check out the arts section Arts and Society section of the online Age. Under the heading ‘Passionate naturalist dedicated to sharing his knowledge’.

  243. bemused



    Why should an iPad version be different from my computer subscription version? This is crazy.

    My iPad version is a complete facsimile of the dead tree version. I can email it to you but it only sends the text and not the photo.

    Got to go now – let me know later if you want it.

  244. lizzie

    Pee Bee

    Thank you so much. I naturally just looked under obits.

  245. Raaraa

    bemused 1114

    Perhaps you can do a screen capture and send it to lizzie.

    Power button + home button does the trick.

  246. lizzie


    Thank you. It’s been a heavy few weeks. His memorial is on Friday so I’ve been a bit busy organizing it. So many kind condolences received.

  247. AussieAchmed

    #ABC Brisbane
    Abbott admitted this morning that Wayne Swan’s GFC stimulus package was NECESSARY.

    He opposed it totally in Opposition.

    Talk about mixed messages….all Coalition messages been through the blender

  248. poroti


    [He opposed it totally in Opposition.]
    So much so he could do it in his sleep 😉

  249. AussieAchmed

    $10 million to Manly Rugby Club, $5 million to the Broncos.

    Because we have a budget emergency

  250. poroti


    [$10 million to Manly Rugby Club, $5 million to the Broncos.

    Because we have a budget emergency]
    CanJoh’s effort during his budget emergency 🙂

    [Qld govt funds goat races

    The funding comes after the Queensland government’s commission of audit into the state’s finances last month revealed the state’s debt was heading for $100 billion by 2018/19 unless savings were made.

    The Premier’s Literary Awards became the government’s first financial victim, saving the state $245,000 after they were cut]

    The funding comes after the Queensland government’s commission of audit into the state’s finances last month revealed the state’s debt was heading for $100 billion by 2018/19 unless savings were made.

    The Premier’s Literary Awards became the government’s first financial victim, saving the state $245,000 after they were cut

  251. zoidlord

    Is Tony Abbott match fixing with donating to sport clubs?

  252. Fulvio Sammut

    What have you got against goats?

  253. AussieAchmed

    Obviously the goats or Premier couldn’t read so the Premier’s Literacy Awards were null and void.

  254. AussieAchmed

    A failed investment company part-owned by Rupert Murdoch’s News Corp received a second taxpayer-funded grant for an environmental project that it never completed, the Federal Environment Department says.

    The department has confirmed it intends to use “legal mechanisms” or other means to recover the $134,904 payment made in 2012 to RM Williams Agricultural Holdings, which collapsed last year owing tens of millions to investors.

    The payment came shortly after the company was given $9.1 million in taxpayers’ money to buy a cattle station that was supposed to become the world’s largest carbon farm and make News Corp carbon neutral.

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/business/failed-news-corp-carbon-venture-extracted-a-second-government-grant-20140810-zy0cs.html#ixzz3BOiQVt3d

  255. Martin B

    When the government puts the $9b of super tax concessions – overwhelmingly benefiting high income earners – on the table we might start listening to the ‘budget emergency’ guff. Until then it’s just their choices to shift resources from the poor to the rich.

  256. davidwh

    Wow a Labor government gave MurdochInc a grant and a Coalition government is taking action to recover it. Priceless.

  257. Steve777

    Super tax concessions cost about $30 billion per annum, rapidly escalating. We are close to or have already reached the point where it would be cheaoer to simply pay everyone over 65 the aged pension. Simply applying income tax to the income component of super pensions (but not the return of capital) would be a huge saving. That is what we did prior to 2007.

    We could also wind back other Howard-era changes including the private health insurance rebate, the CGT discount and the Howard model for funding private schools before we need to even think of hitting low income earners.

  258. Steve777

    Stop the goats!

  259. pedant

    If, following Minister Joyce, we are engaged tonight in a search for an appropriate disease as a metaphor for the budget, could I nominate the one mentioned by the late Lowell Thomas in a broadcast: “a fartal hate attack”.

  260. J341983

    Hmmmm no smug tweet from PvO yet?

  261. AussieAchmed

    Wow a Labor government gave MurdochInc a grant and a Coalition government is taking action to recover it. Priceless.

    I wonder if Murdoch saw that coming during his campaign to be President of Australia

  262. bemused


    Lizzie, check out the arts section Arts and Society section of the online Age. Under the heading ‘Passionate naturalist dedicated to sharing his knowledge’.

    I couldn’t even find an ‘Arts and Society’ section.

  263. Edwina StJohn

    Aussiea why don’t you go and bore people with your rants at your local mens shed ?

  264. PeeBee

    Bemused, press the menu button in the online Age. It is the 8th option down in the first column.

  265. zoidlord


    He’s more amusing than you are 🙂

  266. mikehilliard

    Kelly is so partisan he can even convince himself.

  267. Centre

    To see someone as highly intelligent as Gareth Evans sucking up to Lord Rear Ender himself (Paul Kelly)…

    is sickening!!!

  268. bemused


    Bemused, press the menu button in the online Age. It is the 8th option down in the first column.

    Menu button? Not seeing it.

  269. zoidlord

    Retweeted by Kevin Bonham
    Stephen Murray ‏@smurray38 8m

    Tomorrow’s #newspoll 2PP: ALP 51 Coalition 49 Primary ALP 34 (0) L/NP 40 (0) Grns 11 (-2) Others (incl PUP) 15 (+2) #qanda #auspol

  270. mikehilliard


    I was thinking the same. Grotesque.

  271. Centre


    Gareth should grow a spine, it’s 2014. Murdoch media is dying.

  272. Centre

    Kelly should stick his book up his arse!

  273. J341983

    51-49? Meh… it’ll do. Let’s see how they’re doing after the sitting fortnight 🙂

  274. mikehilliard


    By the look on his face it’s already there.

  275. zoidlord

    GhostWhoVotes ‏@GhostWhoVotes 1m

    #Newspoll 2 Party Preferred: L/NP 49 (+1) ALP 51 (-1) #auspol

  276. zoidlord

    GhostWhoVotes ‏@GhostWhoVotes 1m

    #Newspoll Primary Votes: L/NP 40 (0) ALP 34 (0) GRN 11 (-2) #auspol

  277. zoidlord

    GhostWhoVotes ‏@GhostWhoVotes 2m

    #Newspoll Abbott: Approve 36 (0) Disapprove 55 (+1) #auspol

    GhostWhoVotes ‏@GhostWhoVotes 1m

    #Newspoll Shorten: Approve 39 (+3) Disapprove 40 (-4) #auspol

  278. zoidlord

    GhostWhoVotes ‏@GhostWhoVotes 1m

    #Newspoll Preferred PM: Abbott 39 (-2) Shorten 40 (+3) #auspol

  279. William Bowe

    New thread. You’ll have to find your own way there I’m afraid.

  280. Centre

    zoid @ 1151 & 1152

    Not too bad.

  281. mikehilliard

    Help Im lost. 😀

  282. J341983

    A 7% positive shift in Shorten’s approvals, Abbott goes backwards… and Shorten is preferred PM again… and the ALP is going backwards?

    I do wonder whether an analysis of the 2013 preferences being used is actually telling the whole story.