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	<title>Comments on: Newspolls for all!</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollytics/2007/09/21/newspolls-for-all/</link>
	<description>Politics, elections and piffle plinking</description>
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		<title>By: Charles</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollytics/2007/09/21/newspolls-for-all/comment-page-1/#comment-869</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Sep 2007 23:46:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://possumcomitatus.wordpress.com/2007/09/21/newspolls-for-all/#comment-869</guid>
		<description>I took a different path, I used the ABC swing data as I don&#039;t know what data Newspoll used for safe lib, marginal and safe labor. Being a Victorian I only did Victoria.

I used the marginal swings and state swing as you did and the average swings of the sets as points on a line and used the line to work out seat swings.

If I make the assumption you did, that is the swing imbalance is uniform across the country then I get a swing of 16.63 in Murray and 6.83 in Batman. The Liberals retain 3 seats. Indi Murray and Mallee.

The trouble is we have lost some data. It may be a very hard Lib swing in NSW is swamping the other states. There is nothing in the data that I can see that lets us pull that out.

However being a pissed off Liberal voter I am willing to accept it is liberal seats that are swinging hard and the results for Victoria are in the ball park.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I took a different path, I used the ABC swing data as I don&#8217;t know what data Newspoll used for safe lib, marginal and safe labor. Being a Victorian I only did Victoria.</p>
<p>I used the marginal swings and state swing as you did and the average swings of the sets as points on a line and used the line to work out seat swings.</p>
<p>If I make the assumption you did, that is the swing imbalance is uniform across the country then I get a swing of 16.63 in Murray and 6.83 in Batman. The Liberals retain 3 seats. Indi Murray and Mallee.</p>
<p>The trouble is we have lost some data. It may be a very hard Lib swing in NSW is swamping the other states. There is nothing in the data that I can see that lets us pull that out.</p>
<p>However being a pissed off Liberal voter I am willing to accept it is liberal seats that are swinging hard and the results for Victoria are in the ball park.</p>
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		<title>By: Geoff Lambert</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollytics/2007/09/21/newspolls-for-all/comment-page-1/#comment-868</link>
		<dc:creator>Geoff Lambert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Sep 2007 23:51:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://possumcomitatus.wordpress.com/2007/09/21/newspolls-for-all/#comment-868</guid>
		<description>The One Nation effect on voting was quite interesting. While the PM was able to take over the niche it left vacated when it collapsed, the One Nation voters did not all remain in the nest. As Possum points out, nearly all the One Nation voters were drawn from Liberal voters, some of whom were presumably former ALP voters. ON did not attract ALP voters directly. When ON was at its peak, the preference flow to the ALP was a rather high (and consistent) 43%. When ON collapsed, a high proportion of these appear to have returned to the ALP fold (from whence they came originally via the Coalition), rather than back to Howard.  Add that as another reason why Pearson&#039;s analysis is off the mark.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The One Nation effect on voting was quite interesting. While the PM was able to take over the niche it left vacated when it collapsed, the One Nation voters did not all remain in the nest. As Possum points out, nearly all the One Nation voters were drawn from Liberal voters, some of whom were presumably former ALP voters. ON did not attract ALP voters directly. When ON was at its peak, the preference flow to the ALP was a rather high (and consistent) 43%. When ON collapsed, a high proportion of these appear to have returned to the ALP fold (from whence they came originally via the Coalition), rather than back to Howard.  Add that as another reason why Pearson&#8217;s analysis is off the mark.</p>
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		<title>By: Lovely numbers everywhere &#171; Not a Hedgehog</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollytics/2007/09/21/newspolls-for-all/comment-page-1/#comment-867</link>
		<dc:creator>Lovely numbers everywhere &#171; Not a Hedgehog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Sep 2007 23:09:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://possumcomitatus.wordpress.com/2007/09/21/newspolls-for-all/#comment-867</guid>
		<description>[...] detail and context to the election analysis. For starters, Possum Comitatus has posted the latest quarterly breakdown of Newspoll data, and promises to follow up with some analyses in future posts. One quick thing that strikes me - [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>...] detail and context to the election analysis. For starters, Possum Comitatus has posted the latest quarterly breakdown of Newspoll data, and promises to follow up with some analyses in future posts. One quick thing that strikes me &#8211; [...</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: haiku</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollytics/2007/09/21/newspolls-for-all/comment-page-1/#comment-860</link>
		<dc:creator>haiku</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Sep 2007 08:47:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://possumcomitatus.wordpress.com/2007/09/21/newspolls-for-all/#comment-860</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not sure that Howard will be &quot;distracted by Bennelong&quot;. He wants to be PM.  No good winning his seat while losing the election. So he takes Rudd on nationally and tries to win back the voters who have gone to Rudd (via, as Possum has pointed out, the minors. So he may need to wean them off Rudd on to the minors and then back to him). If he manages this, then in all probability he wins Bennelong.

The only scenario he regrets not campaigning harder in his own seat is if the Coalition hangs on and yet he loses his seat.  Obviously that&#039;s a fairly large downside for him, but his sycophants in the GG can work it into Teh Howard Legend, sacrificing his seat for the good of the party.

No, for JWH it&#039;s all or nothing: so play global, win local.

But, as Possum has also already suggested, maybe it&#039;s a case of shore up the base and don&#039;t lose by too much ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not sure that Howard will be &#8220;distracted by Bennelong&#8221;. He wants to be PM.  No good winning his seat while losing the election. So he takes Rudd on nationally and tries to win back the voters who have gone to Rudd (via, as Possum has pointed out, the minors. So he may need to wean them off Rudd on to the minors and then back to him). If he manages this, then in all probability he wins Bennelong.</p>
<p>The only scenario he regrets not campaigning harder in his own seat is if the Coalition hangs on and yet he loses his seat.  Obviously that&#8217;s a fairly large downside for him, but his sycophants in the GG can work it into Teh Howard Legend, sacrificing his seat for the good of the party.</p>
<p>No, for JWH it&#8217;s all or nothing: so play global, win local.</p>
<p>But, as Possum has also already suggested, maybe it&#8217;s a case of shore up the base and don&#8217;t lose by too much &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Tucker</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollytics/2007/09/21/newspolls-for-all/comment-page-1/#comment-861</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Tucker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Sep 2007 06:35:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://possumcomitatus.wordpress.com/2007/09/21/newspolls-for-all/#comment-861</guid>
		<description>Stig:  &quot;... there is no solid rationale to assume they will make up 2% in the campaign.&quot;

Howard a good campaigner?  Polls bound to tighten during the campaign?  Mmm...

Looking at Newspoll one month away from the five elections Howard has contested as leader, and comparing each against the respective election 2pp, gives an average change of ... zero.  (1987, +2; 1996, 0; 1998, +.5; 2001, -5.5; 2004, +3.)  On average, Howard neither loses or gains during the campaign.  Notwithstanding, if we are trying to find something positive, of his five elections he only went backwards in one, but it was a biggie of a 5.5 drop in 2001 (56.5 to 51).  If we take that out, we might conclude that Howard, on his record, is a modest campaigner with the capacity to make up a couple of percentage points or so.  It is hard to say anything more than that.

I did a similar exercise some time ago looking at all elections, state and federal, in Australia since, I think, 1975 and concluded that incumbency is worth about a 4%, on average, gain during the campaign.  (If I can find the reference I&#039;ll post it.)

Draw your own conclusions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stig:  &#8220;&#8230; there is no solid rationale to assume they will make up 2% in the campaign.&#8221;</p>
<p>Howard a good campaigner?  Polls bound to tighten during the campaign?  Mmm&#8230;</p>
<p>Looking at Newspoll one month away from the five elections Howard has contested as leader, and comparing each against the respective election 2pp, gives an average change of &#8230; zero.  (1987, +2; 1996, 0; 1998, +.5; 2001, -5.5; 2004, +3.)  On average, Howard neither loses or gains during the campaign.  Notwithstanding, if we are trying to find something positive, of his five elections he only went backwards in one, but it was a biggie of a 5.5 drop in 2001 (56.5 to 51).  If we take that out, we might conclude that Howard, on his record, is a modest campaigner with the capacity to make up a couple of percentage points or so.  It is hard to say anything more than that.</p>
<p>I did a similar exercise some time ago looking at all elections, state and federal, in Australia since, I think, 1975 and concluded that incumbency is worth about a 4%, on average, gain during the campaign.  (If I can find the reference I&#8217;ll post it.)</p>
<p>Draw your own conclusions.</p>
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		<title>By: Kramer</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollytics/2007/09/21/newspolls-for-all/comment-page-1/#comment-863</link>
		<dc:creator>Kramer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Sep 2007 06:02:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://possumcomitatus.wordpress.com/2007/09/21/newspolls-for-all/#comment-863</guid>
		<description>There was an article in the Canberra Times today stressing that the PM would not call the election this weekend because he was waiting for the next Newspoll.  I would be very surprised if the next set of polls saw any further movement back to the Coalition.

Labor&#039;s primary vote has barely shifted from between 47-50% since March.  The Liberal Party&#039;s reaction to the recent 55-45 Newspoll was very telling and encapsulates the current political climate.  They are well and truly behind and Howard is looking increasingly wizened by the day.  He will not be able to campaign as strongly as he has done in the past.  This is primarily due to the relentless campaign being waged in Bennelong.  A disproportionate amount of his attention will be mired in this campaign.  Rudd is not similarly encumbered because he is sitting on a healthy margin of well over 8% in Griffith.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There was an article in the Canberra Times today stressing that the PM would not call the election this weekend because he was waiting for the next Newspoll.  I would be very surprised if the next set of polls saw any further movement back to the Coalition.</p>
<p>Labor&#8217;s primary vote has barely shifted from between 47-50% since March.  The Liberal Party&#8217;s reaction to the recent 55-45 Newspoll was very telling and encapsulates the current political climate.  They are well and truly behind and Howard is looking increasingly wizened by the day.  He will not be able to campaign as strongly as he has done in the past.  This is primarily due to the relentless campaign being waged in Bennelong.  A disproportionate amount of his attention will be mired in this campaign.  Rudd is not similarly encumbered because he is sitting on a healthy margin of well over 8% in Griffith.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Beswick</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollytics/2007/09/21/newspolls-for-all/comment-page-1/#comment-862</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Beswick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Sep 2007 05:38:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://possumcomitatus.wordpress.com/2007/09/21/newspolls-for-all/#comment-862</guid>
		<description>Stig #13.

You&#039;re right on both counts. I was just heavily into not counting chickens and pursued pessimistic/paranoid scenarios to see where they led us on Antonys calculator.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stig #13.</p>
<p>You&#8217;re right on both counts. I was just heavily into not counting chickens and pursued pessimistic/paranoid scenarios to see where they led us on Antonys calculator.</p>
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		<title>By: Stig</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollytics/2007/09/21/newspolls-for-all/comment-page-1/#comment-865</link>
		<dc:creator>Stig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Sep 2007 03:11:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://possumcomitatus.wordpress.com/2007/09/21/newspolls-for-all/#comment-865</guid>
		<description>Re: Robert Beswick #8: I think you may be mixing up Morgan with Newspoll. Bryan Palmer over at OzPolitics has done a lot on this in the past.

Also, there is a frequently unchallenged assumption that Howard is a good campaigner, which doesn&#039;t stack up with past evidence. With Sinodinos no longer wrangling Team Howard, I&#039;d think their campaigning is going to be unsubtle and not particularly effective; so there is no solid rationale to assume they will make up 2% in the campaign.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: Robert Beswick #8: I think you may be mixing up Morgan with Newspoll. Bryan Palmer over at OzPolitics has done a lot on this in the past.</p>
<p>Also, there is a frequently unchallenged assumption that Howard is a good campaigner, which doesn&#8217;t stack up with past evidence. With Sinodinos no longer wrangling Team Howard, I&#8217;d think their campaigning is going to be unsubtle and not particularly effective; so there is no solid rationale to assume they will make up 2% in the campaign.</p>
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		<title>By: Lord D</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollytics/2007/09/21/newspolls-for-all/comment-page-1/#comment-866</link>
		<dc:creator>Lord D</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Sep 2007 01:21:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://possumcomitatus.wordpress.com/2007/09/21/newspolls-for-all/#comment-866</guid>
		<description>I believe that Newspoll underestimates the Grn vote, so there&#039;s no need to adjust 2PP.  All other polls have Grn vote much higher than Newspoll.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe that Newspoll underestimates the Grn vote, so there&#8217;s no need to adjust 2PP.  All other polls have Grn vote much higher than Newspoll.</p>
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		<title>By: Mercurius</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollytics/2007/09/21/newspolls-for-all/comment-page-1/#comment-864</link>
		<dc:creator>Mercurius</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Sep 2007 22:46:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://possumcomitatus.wordpress.com/2007/09/21/newspolls-for-all/#comment-864</guid>
		<description>Possum, you do things to numbers that should only be done by consenting adults in private.

I don&#039;t mind what you do in your own bedroom, but do you have to flaunt it like this? :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Possum, you do things to numbers that should only be done by consenting adults in private.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t mind what you do in your own bedroom, but do you have to flaunt it like this? <img src='http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollytics/wp-content/mu-plugins/tango-smilies/tango/face-smile.png' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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