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	<title>Comments on: The Jaundiced View Intrade-Polling Confluence</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollytics/2008/10/07/the-jaundiced-view-intrade-polling-confluence/</link>
	<description>Politics, elections and piffle plinking</description>
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		<title>By: jaundiced view</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollytics/2008/10/07/the-jaundiced-view-intrade-polling-confluence/comment-page-1/#comment-11143</link>
		<dc:creator>jaundiced view</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Oct 2008 11:51:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollytics/?p=2273#comment-11143</guid>
		<description>Thanks for remembering to do up the Confluence chart Possum. It looks terrific. I also hope there is good punting on the state by state elections given what you say in 3 above!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for remembering to do up the Confluence chart Possum. It looks terrific. I also hope there is good punting on the state by state elections given what you say in 3 above!</p>
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		<title>By: Possum</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollytics/2008/10/07/the-jaundiced-view-intrade-polling-confluence/comment-page-1/#comment-11092</link>
		<dc:creator>Possum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Oct 2008 22:30:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollytics/?p=2273#comment-11092</guid>
		<description>Bernice, 

The link Ecky gave just about sums it all up except to say that if there is a Bradley Effect operating in a handful of States at a few percentage points, I think it will be almost impossible to pick up because it will probably be washed away by turnout on the one hand and the cell phone effect and the increase in the 18-35 year age group Democrat vote on the other.

Anyone that says Obama should subtract 7% from poll results - 7%!! - is quite frankly off with the fairies.We saw nothing like that in the primaries and nothing like that in the last 20 years of US politics.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bernice, </p>
<p>The link Ecky gave just about sums it all up except to say that if there is a Bradley Effect operating in a handful of States at a few percentage points, I think it will be almost impossible to pick up because it will probably be washed away by turnout on the one hand and the cell phone effect and the increase in the 18-35 year age group Democrat vote on the other.</p>
<p>Anyone that says Obama should subtract 7% from poll results &#8211; 7%!! &#8211; is quite frankly off with the fairies.We saw nothing like that in the primaries and nothing like that in the last 20 years of US politics.</p>
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		<title>By: ecky</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollytics/2008/10/07/the-jaundiced-view-intrade-polling-confluence/comment-page-1/#comment-11091</link>
		<dc:creator>ecky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Oct 2008 14:21:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollytics/?p=2273#comment-11091</guid>
		<description>Bernice, in no way do I attempt to pre-empt the thoughts of Teh Furry One, however, below is the portfolio of 538 Nate&#039;s analysis of &quot;The Bradley Effect&quot;. The short take is that Nate Silver doesn&#039;t think that it will play very much in 2008, and if it does, he believes it will be offset by Team Kid&#039;s &quot;ground game&quot;.

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/search/label/bradley%20effect 

And yes, was likewise appalled, but not surprised at Mc/Palin&#039;s tacit nods to bigotry you mentioned on LP. Cheers, EC.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bernice, in no way do I attempt to pre-empt the thoughts of Teh Furry One, however, below is the portfolio of 538 Nate&#8217;s analysis of &#8220;The Bradley Effect&#8221;. The short take is that Nate Silver doesn&#8217;t think that it will play very much in 2008, and if it does, he believes it will be offset by Team Kid&#8217;s &#8220;ground game&#8221;.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/search/label/bradley%20effect" rel="nofollow">http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/search/label/bradley%20effect</a> </p>
<p>And yes, was likewise appalled, but not surprised at Mc/Palin&#8217;s tacit nods to bigotry you mentioned on LP. Cheers, EC.</p>
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		<title>By: Bernice</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollytics/2008/10/07/the-jaundiced-view-intrade-polling-confluence/comment-page-1/#comment-11090</link>
		<dc:creator>Bernice</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Oct 2008 09:01:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollytics/?p=2273#comment-11090</guid>
		<description>Mr Possum, could you comment on what you think may be the impact of the Bradley Effect:

&quot;The term refers to Tom Bradley, a former black mayor of Los Angeles, who lost his 1982 bid to become governor of California, even though every poll in the state showed him leading his white opponent by substantial margins. Similar results appeared in 1989, when David Dinkins ran for mayor of New York City and Douglas Wilder sought election as governor of Virginia. Dinkins was ahead by 18 percentage points, but won by only two, and Wilder was leading by nine points, but squeaked through by only half a percent. Numerous other examples lead Hacker to offer this advice to Obama campaign offices: always subtract 7% from favorable poll results. That&#039;s the potential Bradley effect.&quot;

From Is This Election the Major Historical Turning Point It Seems to Be? Yes
By Chalmers Johnson, Tomdispatch.com. Posted October 8, 2008.
http://www.tomdispatch.com/post/174987/chalmers_johnson_the_ultimate_election</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr Possum, could you comment on what you think may be the impact of the Bradley Effect:</p>
<p>&#8220;The term refers to Tom Bradley, a former black mayor of Los Angeles, who lost his 1982 bid to become governor of California, even though every poll in the state showed him leading his white opponent by substantial margins. Similar results appeared in 1989, when David Dinkins ran for mayor of New York City and Douglas Wilder sought election as governor of Virginia. Dinkins was ahead by 18 percentage points, but won by only two, and Wilder was leading by nine points, but squeaked through by only half a percent. Numerous other examples lead Hacker to offer this advice to Obama campaign offices: always subtract 7% from favorable poll results. That&#8217;s the potential Bradley effect.&#8221;</p>
<p>From Is This Election the Major Historical Turning Point It Seems to Be? Yes<br />
By Chalmers Johnson, Tomdispatch.com. Posted October 8, 2008.<br />
<a href="http://www.tomdispatch.com/post/174987/chalmers_johnson_the_ultimate_election" rel="nofollow">http://www.tomdispatch.com/post/174987/chalmers_johnson_the_ultimate_election</a></p>
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		<title>By: Possum</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollytics/2008/10/07/the-jaundiced-view-intrade-polling-confluence/comment-page-1/#comment-11088</link>
		<dc:creator>Possum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Oct 2008 03:22:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollytics/?p=2273#comment-11088</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s pretty hit and miss Kit. The national tracking polls are usually right - well most of them anyway, but the State polls get all over the shop.

Pretty much like what we&#039;re seeing at the moment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s pretty hit and miss Kit. The national tracking polls are usually right &#8211; well most of them anyway, but the State polls get all over the shop.</p>
<p>Pretty much like what we&#8217;re seeing at the moment.</p>
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		<title>By: Kit</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollytics/2008/10/07/the-jaundiced-view-intrade-polling-confluence/comment-page-1/#comment-11087</link>
		<dc:creator>Kit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Oct 2008 03:16:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollytics/?p=2273#comment-11087</guid>
		<description>I cannot help but get the feeling that polls are less accurate in a voluntary voting system. I feel that McCain will get a hammering from GOP voters who will not be bothered getting off their Jason recliners come election day while Obama supporters will be bushy tailed.

Poss, do you have any info on the accuracy of polling in past US elections?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I cannot help but get the feeling that polls are less accurate in a voluntary voting system. I feel that McCain will get a hammering from GOP voters who will not be bothered getting off their Jason recliners come election day while Obama supporters will be bushy tailed.</p>
<p>Poss, do you have any info on the accuracy of polling in past US elections?</p>
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		<title>By: ecky</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollytics/2008/10/07/the-jaundiced-view-intrade-polling-confluence/comment-page-1/#comment-11082</link>
		<dc:creator>ecky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Oct 2008 06:58:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollytics/?p=2273#comment-11082</guid>
		<description>Like the last graph a lot, Poss. Easy on the eye and tragics can instantly tell what States each black vertical line represents by the ECV numbers. 
Just two words: neato keeno:)

Nifty neologism, Dio.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Like the last graph a lot, Poss. Easy on the eye and tragics can instantly tell what States each black vertical line represents by the ECV numbers.<br />
Just two words: neato keeno:)</p>
<p>Nifty neologism, Dio.</p>
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		<title>By: Possum</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollytics/2008/10/07/the-jaundiced-view-intrade-polling-confluence/comment-page-1/#comment-11081</link>
		<dc:creator>Possum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Oct 2008 01:27:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollytics/?p=2273#comment-11081</guid>
		<description>Dio&#039;s word of the day :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dio&#8217;s word of the day <img src='http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollytics/wp-content/mu-plugins/tango-smilies/tango/face-smile.png' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Diogenes</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollytics/2008/10/07/the-jaundiced-view-intrade-polling-confluence/comment-page-1/#comment-11080</link>
		<dc:creator>Diogenes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Oct 2008 01:24:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollytics/?p=2273#comment-11080</guid>
		<description>Possum

May I humbly suggest that &quot;consilience&quot; would be a more apposite word than &quot;confluence&quot;?

Consilience, or the unity of knowledge (literally a &quot;jumping together&quot; of knowledge), has its roots in the ancient Greek concept of an intrinsic orderliness that governs our cosmos, inherently comprehensible by logical process, a vision at odds with mystical views in many cultures that surrounded the Hellenes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Possum</p>
<p>May I humbly suggest that &#8220;consilience&#8221; would be a more apposite word than &#8220;confluence&#8221;?</p>
<p>Consilience, or the unity of knowledge (literally a &#8220;jumping together&#8221; of knowledge), has its roots in the ancient Greek concept of an intrinsic orderliness that governs our cosmos, inherently comprehensible by logical process, a vision at odds with mystical views in many cultures that surrounded the Hellenes.</p>
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		<title>By: Possum</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollytics/2008/10/07/the-jaundiced-view-intrade-polling-confluence/comment-page-1/#comment-11079</link>
		<dc:creator>Possum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Oct 2008 00:21:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollytics/?p=2273#comment-11079</guid>
		<description>Adrian,

I suppose it is what you&#039;d expect when you think about it. I&#039;m surprised a little though since there seems to have been be a fair bit of insider activity on the Intrade state markets previously where a State will jump a few points to be followed by a poll or two a few days later backing the movement up. Things like that.

In Australia, oddly enough, the opposite happened last year where the polls led the way a long way out and where it took the headline betting markets a while to catch up, and where the individual seat markets didnt really get their act together until the last week or so.

PJN, I was playing around this morning trying to find a way to highlight the probability gap between the two big clusters of states - that seemed to do the trick! 

Glad you like :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Adrian,</p>
<p>I suppose it is what you&#8217;d expect when you think about it. I&#8217;m surprised a little though since there seems to have been be a fair bit of insider activity on the Intrade state markets previously where a State will jump a few points to be followed by a poll or two a few days later backing the movement up. Things like that.</p>
<p>In Australia, oddly enough, the opposite happened last year where the polls led the way a long way out and where it took the headline betting markets a while to catch up, and where the individual seat markets didnt really get their act together until the last week or so.</p>
<p>PJN, I was playing around this morning trying to find a way to highlight the probability gap between the two big clusters of states &#8211; that seemed to do the trick! </p>
<p>Glad you like <img src='http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollytics/wp-content/mu-plugins/tango-smilies/tango/face-smile.png' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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