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	<title>Comments on: The intellectual dishonesty of &#8220;the politicians&#8217; republic&#8221;</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/purepoison/2009/06/09/the-intellectual-dishonesty-of-the-politicians-republic/</link>
	<description>Just another Crikey Blogs weblog</description>
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		<title>By: confessions</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/purepoison/2009/06/09/the-intellectual-dishonesty-of-the-politicians-republic/comment-page-1/#comment-7635</link>
		<dc:creator>confessions</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 01:45:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/purepoison/?p=2084#comment-7635</guid>
		<description>Jeremy: I really wish you would highlight the &lt;a href=&quot;http://blogs.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/timblair/index.php/dailytelegraph/comments/green_brown_in_red/desc/#commentsmore&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;mispresentations&lt;/a&gt; by Tim Blair (i haven&#039;t looked at bolt) over the bob brown thing. especially his remark that the greens are seemingly cutting him loose. WTF?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeremy: I really wish you would highlight the <a href="http://blogs.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/timblair/index.php/dailytelegraph/comments/green_brown_in_red/desc/#commentsmore" rel="nofollow">mispresentations</a> by Tim Blair (i haven&#8217;t looked at bolt) over the bob brown thing. especially his remark that the greens are seemingly cutting him loose. WTF?</p>
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		<title>By: GavinM</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/purepoison/2009/06/09/the-intellectual-dishonesty-of-the-politicians-republic/comment-page-1/#comment-7628</link>
		<dc:creator>GavinM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 01:29:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/purepoison/?p=2084#comment-7628</guid>
		<description>Thanks re costs Jeremy, in that case one of my reservations is settled at least -- there&#039;s really only the issue that Confessions, Rob and I all seem to agree on left, that of more pressing issues at the moment. I have no objection to the change to a comparable system provided the costs of doing so are not excessive, but I don&#039;t believe we need to do it to show the world that we are an independent nation -- I don&#039;t think the rest of the world sees us as anything other than that now.

I didn&#039;t realise the appointment of QC&#039;s is no longer happening, and the new system does seem rather confusing.

I see your reasoning on the Bob Brown post, but I reckon Bolt and Blair are skating pretty close to the edge of -- if not &quot;intellectual dishonesty&quot; then just plain old complete dishonesty -- in terms of misrepresenting what&#039;s happened in those court cases.

Thanks for that Rob, you&#039;re certainly right about Charles being groomed for the throne all his life and therefore there&#039;s almost no doubt he&#039;ll want to assume it when the time comes, and yes you make a good point about the letterhead.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks re costs Jeremy, in that case one of my reservations is settled at least &#8212; there&#8217;s really only the issue that Confessions, Rob and I all seem to agree on left, that of more pressing issues at the moment. I have no objection to the change to a comparable system provided the costs of doing so are not excessive, but I don&#8217;t believe we need to do it to show the world that we are an independent nation &#8212; I don&#8217;t think the rest of the world sees us as anything other than that now.</p>
<p>I didn&#8217;t realise the appointment of QC&#8217;s is no longer happening, and the new system does seem rather confusing.</p>
<p>I see your reasoning on the Bob Brown post, but I reckon Bolt and Blair are skating pretty close to the edge of &#8212; if not &#8220;intellectual dishonesty&#8221; then just plain old complete dishonesty &#8212; in terms of misrepresenting what&#8217;s happened in those court cases.</p>
<p>Thanks for that Rob, you&#8217;re certainly right about Charles being groomed for the throne all his life and therefore there&#8217;s almost no doubt he&#8217;ll want to assume it when the time comes, and yes you make a good point about the letterhead.</p>
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		<title>By: RobJ</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/purepoison/2009/06/09/the-intellectual-dishonesty-of-the-politicians-republic/comment-page-1/#comment-7624</link>
		<dc:creator>RobJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 01:08:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/purepoison/?p=2084#comment-7624</guid>
		<description>&quot;As for cost - we’re going to have to spend millions changing all those things when the Queen dies anyway&quot;

Good point. We&#039;ll have to be careful to not name the President on the letterhead, or we&#039;ll be changing that every 4 or 8 or ???? years ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;As for cost &#8211; we’re going to have to spend millions changing all those things when the Queen dies anyway&#8221;</p>
<p>Good point. We&#8217;ll have to be careful to not name the President on the letterhead, or we&#8217;ll be changing that every 4 or 8 or ???? years <img src='http://blogs.crikey.com.au/purepoison/wp-content/mu-plugins/tango-smilies/tango/face-wink.png' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: confessions</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/purepoison/2009/06/09/the-intellectual-dishonesty-of-the-politicians-republic/comment-page-1/#comment-7623</link>
		<dc:creator>confessions</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 01:07:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/purepoison/?p=2084#comment-7623</guid>
		<description>yes GavinM, which is why i agreed with your first comment on this subject: most people aren&#039;t focused on the republic debate what with other stuff happening like a recession. if it were to come up now it would only play into the monarchist crowds hands.  leave it until we get through the mess of the recession, getting a new senate where legilsation isn&#039;t reliant on support from ignorant miscreants like Fielding, and of course starting along the road to abating AGW.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>yes GavinM, which is why i agreed with your first comment on this subject: most people aren&#8217;t focused on the republic debate what with other stuff happening like a recession. if it were to come up now it would only play into the monarchist crowds hands.  leave it until we get through the mess of the recession, getting a new senate where legilsation isn&#8217;t reliant on support from ignorant miscreants like Fielding, and of course starting along the road to abating AGW.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeremy Sear</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/purepoison/2009/06/09/the-intellectual-dishonesty-of-the-politicians-republic/comment-page-1/#comment-7622</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy Sear</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 01:04:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/purepoison/?p=2084#comment-7622</guid>
		<description>Gavin - I can&#039;t really post the Bob Brown piece here unless it&#039;s to respond to the dishonesty of the way it&#039;s been covered in other media. I might do that - Bolt and Blair&#039;s crowing whilst not reporting the full facts had been pretty contemptible, although whether it falls over the line into &quot;intellectual dishonesty&quot; I&#039;m not yet decided.

As for cost - we&#039;re going to have to spend millions changing all those things when the Queen dies anyway, and then when Charles dies, and for each new &quot;Divine Right&quot; head of state. The proposed constitutional change wouldn&#039;t require further public money because the work would&#039;ve been done before the referendum, and by the people advocating for it, not the taxpayer. As last time.
 
PS &quot;Silks&quot; aren&#039;t appointed as QCs any more anyway - they&#039;re called SCs, &quot;senior counsel&quot;. Which is confusing because there are many senior counsel who aren&#039;t &quot;SC&quot;s, so you have people called senior junior counsel instead. It&#039;s a bit silly. The best solution would be to abandon the entire dodgy and archaic system of having the court appoint &quot;super&quot; barristers, and leave it up to the market to decide who&#039;s good and who isn&#039;t.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gavin &#8211; I can&#8217;t really post the Bob Brown piece here unless it&#8217;s to respond to the dishonesty of the way it&#8217;s been covered in other media. I might do that &#8211; Bolt and Blair&#8217;s crowing whilst not reporting the full facts had been pretty contemptible, although whether it falls over the line into &#8220;intellectual dishonesty&#8221; I&#8217;m not yet decided.</p>
<p>As for cost &#8211; we&#8217;re going to have to spend millions changing all those things when the Queen dies anyway, and then when Charles dies, and for each new &#8220;Divine Right&#8221; head of state. The proposed constitutional change wouldn&#8217;t require further public money because the work would&#8217;ve been done before the referendum, and by the people advocating for it, not the taxpayer. As last time.</p>
<p>PS &#8220;Silks&#8221; aren&#8217;t appointed as QCs any more anyway &#8211; they&#8217;re called SCs, &#8220;senior counsel&#8221;. Which is confusing because there are many senior counsel who aren&#8217;t &#8220;SC&#8221;s, so you have people called senior junior counsel instead. It&#8217;s a bit silly. The best solution would be to abandon the entire dodgy and archaic system of having the court appoint &#8220;super&#8221; barristers, and leave it up to the market to decide who&#8217;s good and who isn&#8217;t.</p>
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		<title>By: RobJ</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/purepoison/2009/06/09/the-intellectual-dishonesty-of-the-politicians-republic/comment-page-1/#comment-7621</link>
		<dc:creator>RobJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 01:03:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/purepoison/?p=2084#comment-7621</guid>
		<description>yes, he can abdicate, his great uncle did, thing is I don&#039;t think Charles will, he&#039;s spent his entire life being groomed for the position.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>yes, he can abdicate, his great uncle did, thing is I don&#8217;t think Charles will, he&#8217;s spent his entire life being groomed for the position.</p>
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		<title>By: GavinM</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/purepoison/2009/06/09/the-intellectual-dishonesty-of-the-politicians-republic/comment-page-1/#comment-7619</link>
		<dc:creator>GavinM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 00:49:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/purepoison/?p=2084#comment-7619</guid>
		<description>&quot;Doesn’t work like that, unless the Queen outlives him he will be King. There’s no obvious reason for him to abdicate his heritage…&quot;

Sorry Rob, meant to ask you I&#039;m not sure how all this stuff works, can he not just voluntarily abdicate in favour of his son if he chooses to ?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Doesn’t work like that, unless the Queen outlives him he will be King. There’s no obvious reason for him to abdicate his heritage…&#8221;</p>
<p>Sorry Rob, meant to ask you I&#8217;m not sure how all this stuff works, can he not just voluntarily abdicate in favour of his son if he chooses to ?</p>
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		<title>By: GavinM</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/purepoison/2009/06/09/the-intellectual-dishonesty-of-the-politicians-republic/comment-page-1/#comment-7617</link>
		<dc:creator>GavinM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 00:47:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/purepoison/?p=2084#comment-7617</guid>
		<description>I see your point about Monarchy being an anarchic and non-democratic system Confessions -- as I said, I&#039;m not a Monarchist -- but we aren&#039;t ruled by a Monarchy and I just don&#039;t see any reason for changing our system at this point in time, as Rob says, there are far more important issues for our government to be focusing on.

Agreed that the Western Republics are comparable to our system, but they aren&#039;t any better so I see no reason to change for what would really be just more of the same under a different name.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I see your point about Monarchy being an anarchic and non-democratic system Confessions &#8212; as I said, I&#8217;m not a Monarchist &#8212; but we aren&#8217;t ruled by a Monarchy and I just don&#8217;t see any reason for changing our system at this point in time, as Rob says, there are far more important issues for our government to be focusing on.</p>
<p>Agreed that the Western Republics are comparable to our system, but they aren&#8217;t any better so I see no reason to change for what would really be just more of the same under a different name.</p>
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		<title>By: GavinM</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/purepoison/2009/06/09/the-intellectual-dishonesty-of-the-politicians-republic/comment-page-1/#comment-7615</link>
		<dc:creator>GavinM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 00:37:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/purepoison/?p=2084#comment-7615</guid>
		<description>Hello Jeremy,

&quot;Why would it cost “huge sums of money”? 

Without knowing exact amounts and not knowing the full spectrum of what changing our Constitution would involve, there would be the cost of setting up and holding a referendum, the no doubt considerable lawyers&#039; fees -- (I imagine QC&#039;s, what would their title be under a Republic ?) -- for performing whatever legal work  needs to be done, depending on how the new head of state is going to be appointed, if by popular vote there is the cost of setting up and holding that referendum. I&#039;m sure there would be other requirements for changes as well, but I&#039;m no legal or constitutional expert so I don&#039;t know the full picture and there would I suspect be costs associated with title changes on documents as well.

Off this topic, I just read your post on Bob Brown over at your own site Jeremy, I&#039;m no fan of his but I agree with you that his treatment in this court case has been disgraceful, I will be donating to help him with the fees -- (something I thought I&#039;d never do for any politician of any sort) -- would you consider putting that post here as well so that those who don&#039;t visit both sites can see the details of the case and how to support him ?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello Jeremy,</p>
<p>&#8220;Why would it cost “huge sums of money”? </p>
<p>Without knowing exact amounts and not knowing the full spectrum of what changing our Constitution would involve, there would be the cost of setting up and holding a referendum, the no doubt considerable lawyers&#8217; fees &#8212; (I imagine QC&#8217;s, what would their title be under a Republic ?) &#8212; for performing whatever legal work  needs to be done, depending on how the new head of state is going to be appointed, if by popular vote there is the cost of setting up and holding that referendum. I&#8217;m sure there would be other requirements for changes as well, but I&#8217;m no legal or constitutional expert so I don&#8217;t know the full picture and there would I suspect be costs associated with title changes on documents as well.</p>
<p>Off this topic, I just read your post on Bob Brown over at your own site Jeremy, I&#8217;m no fan of his but I agree with you that his treatment in this court case has been disgraceful, I will be donating to help him with the fees &#8212; (something I thought I&#8217;d never do for any politician of any sort) &#8212; would you consider putting that post here as well so that those who don&#8217;t visit both sites can see the details of the case and how to support him ?</p>
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		<title>By: RobJ</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/purepoison/2009/06/09/the-intellectual-dishonesty-of-the-politicians-republic/comment-page-1/#comment-7614</link>
		<dc:creator>RobJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 00:28:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/purepoison/?p=2084#comment-7614</guid>
		<description>&quot;— name me a Republic that functions politically and/or economically better than we do.&quot;

Well it&#039;s debatable... I&#039;d nominate France though. There are many Republics that are comparable, all Western Republics spring to mind. 

&quot;I wonder if Charlie would ever become king, or if he would just pass the crown to his son ? &quot;

Doesn&#039;t work like that, unless the Queen outlives him he will be King. There&#039;s no obvious reason for him to abdicate his heritage... 

OK costs aside, I&#039;m still with GavinM, I&#039;m a Republican but we have bigger fish to fry (ETS?).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;— name me a Republic that functions politically and/or economically better than we do.&#8221;</p>
<p>Well it&#8217;s debatable&#8230; I&#8217;d nominate France though. There are many Republics that are comparable, all Western Republics spring to mind. </p>
<p>&#8220;I wonder if Charlie would ever become king, or if he would just pass the crown to his son ? &#8221;</p>
<p>Doesn&#8217;t work like that, unless the Queen outlives him he will be King. There&#8217;s no obvious reason for him to abdicate his heritage&#8230; </p>
<p>OK costs aside, I&#8217;m still with GavinM, I&#8217;m a Republican but we have bigger fish to fry (ETS?).</p>
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