We love having you comment here at Pure Poison but it’s a little bit difficult for discussion to continue uninterrupted on specific posts when off-topic comments land in the middle of them. So each day we’ll launch an open thread where you can leave comments that don’t quite fit on one of the other posts. Remember that tip-offs can be made here.
Have at it!
35 Comments
Two things:
1) Do you all agree that Peter Garrett is a traitor to his own beliefs? I’ve been saying it for years, I despise the man. Anybody who considered themselves a true green would never join the Australian Labor Party.
2) Herald Sun, as per usual have their finger on the pulse with the issues that matter.. Today the front page story is about 9 year old footy players being told they’re shite, my god, what is the world coming to?.
Some hypocrisy for you, can you guess who said the following?
“I have long been opposed to uranium mining, and I remain opposed to it. I am unapologetic about this. In fact, I am proud of it.”
And this:
“”I have always maintained and, indeed, committed myself to the notion that Australia should be nuclear free — that our country is as far into nuclear activities as it ever should be,”"
Clearly this person thinks that everybody else should have nuclear power but Australia shouldn’t!
And, who sung this:
“”Mining companies, pastoral companies / Uranium companies, collected companies / Got more right than people / Got more say than people.”"
Then turned around and enabled those mining companies to have more say and rights than people.
Hypocrite of the century.
I hear ya Rob, hypocrite of the century!
this ’story’ however has the opposition trying to attack labor from the Left, what a rabble the Liberal party is.
“what a rabble the Liberal party is.”
Yes they are pathetic. Most (all – maybe Brown is the exception that proves the rule???) politicians are just opportunistic pricks IMO
Andrew, the first point of contact for Chinese embassy officials (the ones with “firm notepads”), has this to say:
…”That means it sees as threats what we see as our security – democracy, the rule of law, a free press.”…
I wanna be sick.
Hello confessions,
Thank you for the Bastille Day wishes, I do have a French passport as well as an Aussie one, and I have to admit that even though I don’t have a drop of French blood in me, Bastille Day does hold some significance for me, mainly revolving around fond memories of the celebrations that the legion held.
Hi Rob,
Is Garrett a hypocrite ? Perhaps, in fact probably — what politician isn’t, but to be fair to him he did argue against the policy and was over-ruled in a party vote in the recent mining debate.
As you say politicians are opportunists and I reckon Garrett just reinforced that perception by joining the Labor Party as a means to perhaps wield more influence and to further his career…
Carping tirade by Bolt today. How DARE people attempt to follow their own lives when they move to a country town!
Logically, we should expect anyone moving from Melbourne to a country town to immediately abandon any interest in the environment; they must also jettison any beliefs they cherish if they are not Catholic, or at least Uniting Church. They must also take to wearing moleskins, and immediately apply for a mining concession.
Pathetic.
“Is Garrett a hypocrite ? Perhaps, in fact probably ” errr definitely!
“but to be fair to him he did argue against the policy and was over-ruled in a party vote in the recent mining debate.”
So he doesn’t have the strength of his own convictions, why doesn’t he just resign, I thought he was a ‘green’?
“I reckon Garrett just reinforced that perception by joining the Labor Party as a means to perhaps wield more influence and to further his career…”
He’s utterly failed on the bolded part, instead he’s working against his own beliefs. Would you do that? I wouldn’t, I’ve already quit one well paid job because I just wasn’t into serving the shareholder over the customer and ultimately being of no benefit to anyone worth benefiting, I’d do it again, I’d never ever let work depress me, or get the better of me. I’d rather be poor and happy than rich and wrong. I guess I’m just a better person than Garrett, but that comes as no surprise to me.
GavinM: do you (did you) do anything special to celebrate?
Robj: Brown certainly does have form in sticking to his convictions, but the thing for him is that it’s easy to do when you don’t have a chance of ever being a government. with the demise of the democrats and the increase in the Greens vote, they could become potential balance of power holders in the senate, and if they achieve that maybe then we’ll see Brown really tested on his convictions.
“but the thing for him is that it’s easy to do when you don’t have a chance of ever being a government.”
Well if more people were like me then his chances would leap, the guy as far as I can tell espouses sane, sustainable policy. He did back away from legalising all drugs and I’m not happy about it, it’s what he believes but he’s scared of losing votes. So yeah, he’s just like the rest of them but with better policies (imnsho)
monkeywrench @ 7: shorter Bolt: “I will decide how people live their lives in the location in which they choose to live!”
His rant reminds me of the time those republicans had a go at Obama when he took his wife on a date, going on about the choice of venue etc etc.
Was the Bolta invited to Castlemaine to call out Bingo numbers?
Heaven forbid if he ever drops into Daylesford.
Hi confessions,
It’s not a particularly significant day for anyone else in my family, so all I do these days is raise a quiet glass of port or 2 to the guys I served with and give the German nurse who risked her life for me when I was wounded in Sarajevo a phone call. (Mind you, we’ve always called each other every couple of weeks or so to catch up anyway).
In the Legion of course it’s a huge day and the celebrations continue for the next couple of days after it, particularly for those who are fortuneate enough to be in home barracks at the time, there’s the parade through Paris of course, then fireworks over the next couple of nights and on the day after its a Legion tradition that the officers serve the troops — they cook and serve their meals. There’s a similar tradition on April 30th where the officers serve the troopers breakfast in bed.
Rob,
I reckon you’re being a littlr harsh on Garrett, he’s only one man and no matter how spirited an argument he puts up, if he’s outnumbered in the party room he’s not going to win.
As to him resigning, I think that would achieve nothing – at least if he’s in the party there’s some chance of him influencing decisions…If he was in the Greens he’d have no influence at all and little if any chance of gaining any.
monkeywrench @ 7: More like he thought he would be talking to the CWA and a few farmers who agree with what he has to say and then realised that the number of tree changers up there reflect modern society.
Maybe Bolt underestimates the country folk.
GavinM – I don’t think it cuts it to say Garrett got over-ruled in a party room vote. Not for the man who sang “Blue Sky Mine” and many other such great songs. He could have resigned; he could have moved to the Greens. Chrurchill went from the Conservatives to the Liberals, which wasn’t a great short-term career move at the time.
It’ such a shame. Garrett could have been PM one day, but he won’t be now. Many people feel betrayed.
I’m listening to a story about the testimony of 26 IDF whistleblowers talking about the recent Gaza massacre. (yep – massacre is my word).
Some of the testimony is shocking:
Talking on a mobile phone or using binoculars reason enough to be shot.
Incidences of IDF using Palestinian civilians as human shields, we’re not talking about firing shitty rockets from populations centres here (let’s face it, the entire Gaza City is very densely populated) We’re talking about IDF forcing civilians to walk in front of them, IDF weapon resting on human shields soldier.
Of course Israel denies this, they deny all wrong doing regardless of the fact that they directly killed hundreds of civilians.
The IDF claims that their use of white phosphor was legitimate, used to mask troops, thing is the IDF didn’t have any troops on the ground where they were using white phosphor.
Please – If anyone bothers to reply to this post don’t bother telling me that Hamas are pricks too, I know they are, two wrongs don’t make a right and the fact of the matter is that our govt supports Israel and it’s actions. Remember Gillard laid the blame directly at the feet of Hamas (then changed her tune a bit when the world could see what Israel was doing – typical politician) Gillard doesn’t speak for me, I support sanctions on Israel, not butt kissing!.
“at least if he’s in the party there’s some chance of him influencing decisions”
No chance at all actually, do you reckon he used his influence to give Gunns the go ahead, or the new uranium mine the go ahead? He’s a weak man, he can’t even stand by his own beliefs, he has a snowballs chance in hell of influencing the strong personalities of Rudd, Wong and Gillard.
Well, GavinM and RobJ, if he IS going to influence decisions, he needs to grow a damn sight bigger pair than he seems to have at the moment. I’ve had a bit to do with the ALP over the years, mainly in NSW, and you do really need to stand your corner sometimes.
I always had misgivings about Garrett joining Labor.
What would Garrett resigning achieve ?
All that would happen then is you’d have one less Green voice in the government’s ranks – not an outcome I’d have thought any of us would want.
If he resigned from Labour and went to the Greens, what would he achieve there — with a support base of around 6% to 8% it’s not very likely that the Greens will be forming a government in Garrett’s, mine or probably even my kids’ lifetimes.
To be honest, I really think your dislike for Garrett revolves more around his deserting of your favourite party than anything he’s actually done or not done since joining Labour. As I said he’s one man in the party and he argued against the mine, he was out-voted – nothing more he could do. Had he voted in favour or not put up any argument against then you would have a case for hypocrisy against him.
Yes Bertus, Churchill went to the Liberals but that was different times and the Liberal party was one of the 2 major parties, interestingly he went back to the Conservative party again after that — now that’s what I call political opportunism !
Garrett joined Labor. Of course he was going to have to abandon some personal principles.
yep – massacre is my word
it would be my word too Rob.
WRT Garrett, i agree with Gavin. joining a major political party was always going to mean he’d have to compromise on some of his passions, as all politicians in the major parties have to. But he’s in government now, and you can always do more in government than you can out of government or from the sidelines (even tho Sarah Palin would disagree lol).
Frankly i think the only pollies who remain true to their individual values are the indepedents, something which IMO is reflected in their often unusually high approval rankings – Andren and Windsor being egs of this. i don’t know what Bob Katter’s approval ranking is but he always seems to get returned so his electorate must think he’s doing something right.
“What would Garrett resigning achieve ? ”
He could resign, admit his mistake and claim that Labor is wrong and people should vote Green if they care about the environment and sustainability.
“If he resigned from Labour and went to the Greens’
I’d say resign and do something else, his credibility is shattered, the Greens wouldn’t have him, they oppose Gunns and uranium mining.
“To be honest, I really think your dislike for Garrett revolves more around his deserting of your favourite party than anything he’s actually done or not done since joining Labour.”
They are my favourite party, as in a best fit, there isn’t actually a party in Australia that represents my feelings. I think the guy is a prick for campaigning against the Victorian Greens, claiming he’s a Greenie then giving the nod (he’s the Minister after all) to Gunns and now this new mine (therefore he’s not really a person with green convictions), I dislike him because he’s a hypocrite of the highest order, why would I need another reason. I was never a fan of the Oils BTW, I don’t mind them though. Personally I’m not a fan of any particular party i have more respect for independents, people who refuse to toe the party line, people who are true to their belief’s (I realise that these are thin on the ground and even our independents are self serving pricks). I dislike Turnbull for the same reasons, there’s now way he’s a Lib, I’d place him left of Rudd, he’s just in it to be PM, ie he’s there for his own ego. I dislike Rudd because he’s a populist and a wowser… I could go on
“nothing more he could do”
He could resign?
“Had he voted in favour or not put up any argument against then you would have a case for hypocrisy against him. ”
Look at the things he said before he was a politician and tell me with a straight face that he’s not a hypocrite of the first order.
“i agree with Gavin. joining a major political party was always going to mean he’d have to compromise on some of his passions”
Some of the passions he wrote songs about and profited from, it was his decision to join Labor, he was warned by Brown that they would chew him up and spit him out.
“as all politicians in the major parties have to”
He wasn’t conscripted was he, he went of his own free will. I doubt he needed the money.
“. But he’s in government now, and you can always do more in government than you can out of government or from the sidelines (even tho Sarah Palin would disagree lol).”
Like approving uranium mines and pulp mills, canceling the solar rebate, kowtowing to Rudd on Uluru etc etc etc.
Tell you what guys, I’ll concede he probably joined the party with good intentions, now he should realise that he’s totally ineffective as a so-called ‘greenie’
As others have said, joining a party that decides its policies by consensus is inevitably going to mean compromising on some of your personal positions. The real question is why Garrett was given a portfolio where his personal positions (i) were on public record in his earlier political activism and his music and (ii) obviously were not going to be in alignment with the majority of the party room. Rudd put him, and Garrett allowed himself to be put, in an untenable position.
Rob @ 23: Like approving uranium mines and pulp mills, canceling the solar rebate, kowtowing to Rudd on Uluru etc etc etc.
yes, all of that is true, but remember Petro Georgio, Judi Moylan, Mal Washer and others who used their positions inside government (washer in opposition) to get a softer stance on immigration, aid funding for abortions and a conscience vote on RU486? You actually can do stuff from inside the tent. And what TZ said: he should never been given environment, he should have science or trade or families or something that doesn’t expose him as a hypocrite when he has to toe the party line.
I’ll concede he probably joined the party with good intentions,
does anyone enter politics with good intentions? Sorry, call me a cynic, but politics is simply a hotbed of hypocrisy: nobody manages to stay in politics with a halo on their head for very long.
Spot on Tobias, the unfortuneate thing for him now of course is that he’s probably stuck with that portfolio — He really doesn’t have much (if any) control over the environmental policies of the ALP, therefore his green principles are compromised and I reckon if he was to change to another portfolio the press would make a meal of him as the greenie who failed as a green minister….Catch 22 ?
“I’d say resign and do something else, his credibility is shattered…”
I suppose he could fall back on his qualifications as a lawyer and start practising law…But as I said, do we really want one less environmental voice in the governing party ?
confessions,
“You actually can do stuff from inside the tent.”
I know, but what’s Garrett done of significance? I’ve listed some high profile (what I consider) failures on the part of Garrett.
The way I read Toby’s post is that he agrees with me, specifically “and Garrett allowed himself to be put, in an untenable position.” Like I say he wasn’t conscripted, I think he was way too quick to sell himself down the river.
Gavin,
“he should have science or trade or families or something that doesn’t expose him as a hypocrite when he has to toe the party line.”
“I suppose he could fall back on his qualifications as a lawyer and start practising law…But as I said, do we really want one less environmental voice in the governing party ?”
His voice has zero effect as far as I can see, please feel free to correct me, it’s no loss. But he could resign and slag the shit out of Labor whilst he’s doing it, that would raise my opinion of him (not that he’d care
)
I don’t think Rudd likes him very much (not that that’s a negative) he was after all a Latham pick.
Here’s a run down on my earlier Israel/Palestine rant from the BBC:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8149464.stm
“But he could resign and slag the shit out of Labor whilst he’s doing it,…”
Yes, he could do that Rob, but would it be seen by many voters as just sour grapes from a failed minister ? I don’t know, but either way both confessions and Tobias are right that he should not have been given the environment portfolio even though he was probably the obvious choice for it.
“I don’t think Rudd likes him very much….”
I think you’re right, I reckon they come from very different sides of the track…Can’t picture Rudd as an Oils fan at all either.
Rob: what has labor done of significance on the environment, even the ETS is a dog and that’s not even Garrett’s portfolio! But at the end of day I still reckon that you can achieve more inside the halls of power than you can outside of it, but like any job you just have to play the game. Some people play it well, others wind up looking like weasels.
As for his voice having zero effect in another portfolio, you could say same about any other minister. People tend to make their portfolio their own unless you have a leader with a specific interest in whatever area you are minister for (Rudd with foreign affairs, Howard with treasury for eg).
Garrett is a hypocrite and a sell out, but it was always going to come to this at some point. bTW, did you ever watch the West WIng? the election campaign of Santos showed the values and beliefs clash in politics well i thought.
RobJ @ 29 – just from that report there are clear grounds for an independent investigation.
Failures of leadership at the lower levels – some of the most minor acts they discussed (unauthorised discharge of weapons) would result in a court-martial in our Army. Or outright criminal behaviour from squad and platoon commanders if these alledged acts were going on under their command.
The allegations need to be investigated to find out what context these actions were carried out. Sometimes soldiers with no view of the higher level picture of the overall operation can make erroneous conclusions. I would also like to know if the ‘whistleblowers’ were from one unit or from many units. This would indicate whether you have a rogue commander out there with a ill-disciplined unit or a widespread policy, in which case the IDF is open to charges.
Being Bolt means never having to admit you were wrong.
A month or so ago, he was banging on about “alarmists” and “hysterics” (just the same language he uses about climate change) to abuse individuals and organisations that were warning about the risk of a swine flu pandemic. He’s gone totally quiet about H1N1, now that many of those risks have come to pass. I guess not even he would have the gall to accuse the next of kin of the victims now on life support of being “hysterical”
Garrett was courted by labour because he attracted the much needed green youth vote. He was wooed with the promise of party muscle behind his agenda, when the plan was to marginalise him, make him a joke, and force him to the back bench to collect a pension in sullen silence. The goal was to sap power from the greens, nothing more.
We can thank Gareth Evans for setting the precedent when he and Cheryl Kernot fucked the Democrats out of existence.