In this week’s open thread more than one of our commenters quite rightly gave Andrew Bolt a pat on the back for his immediate response to Tony Abbott’s bizarre admission on 60 minutes that he felt ‘threatened’ by homosexuals.
I must say that any man who feels personally threatened by homosexuals has a few issues of their own that need sorting out – not advertising on national television.
It was a refreshing statement from Bolt, not only because he took a stand against some of the ignorant nonsense that is spewed about the LGBT community, but because in doing so he was willing to take to task the leader of the opposition, who he normally seems to regard as a fellow traveller.
Knowing how strongly Andrew feels about taking a stand against discrimination based on people’s sexual preference, it was sad to see some of his good work being undone by one of his later updates which was, for some reason, accompanied by a photo of four guys in speedos (No, Tony Abbott wasn’t among them).
Abbott’s views are Abbott’s responsibility, and I do not excuse them. But I don’t think they’re at all uncommon, and some in the gay community only encourage this unfortunate perception of the predatory gay with foolish and irresponsible displays like those so often seen in the Sydney Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras:
So Bolt has gone from questioning what on earth Abbott was on about, to suddenly understanding precisely what he means, and noting that his views are not uncommon. That’s quite a U-turn. But that’s not what concerns me the most. I hate to display my own ignorance, but I’m not sure what a predatory gay is. Perhaps something like this?
Now if it is true that gay Predators are coming to attack Tony Abbott, I think that he has only one option. This is how I expect to see him arrive at parliament from now on.
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That’s quite a gutless u-turn…he’s basically waving a ‘homophobia is ok’ flag because the views ‘are not uncommon’ and hell, some of those wacky sex mad queers are just askin’ for it.
oh gotta do this..
the bottom picture?
zats ‘vun uglee muthaf**er’
Bolt has nothing against gay people, as long as he doesn’t know they’re gay, same with Abbott. So feel free to be gay in the privacy of your own home, but no sequinned budgie smugglers, regular ones only.
The Bolt/Abbott stance on this issue is entirely consistent and similar to the conservative position on Africans, Asians. They’re fine when they stay in their own land, so long as they don’t come to this one(a visit’s fine, just don’t expect to stay permanently).
I’m always extremely cautious whenever I see a flash of sanity from Bolt, and once again, without fail, that caution is vindicated. Any time he has written something that seemed half agreeable, it was merely being used to set up some subsequent line of attack.
The top picture, gold. Careful though, you might give Iaiaiaiaian Hall an aneurysm.
I certainly didn’t get too excited about Bolt’s original post on this. I believe its one of his periodic “see, I’m not so bad after all” pieces before he goes back to being his normal self. He’s been doing this for a long time. Sorry to be cynical, its just another Bolt ploy.
When I saw Bolt use that photo I thought that I should find a similar photo of women used in his own paper, but then thought why bother.
And the Predator image is just perfect.
Glad to see the photo-shopping is back in business. Funny that Bolt used that photo of the four guys together from the after party when he could have used pictures from the night before. The four guys look no different than the Australian Swimming Relay Team do they?
http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/200704/r135050_455367.jpg
I was disappointed too Dave. But my feeling is the U-turn happened because he was copping a caning in comments. I’ve noticed when that happens he either abandons the post altogether and halts comments, or whips up some UPDATES which restore business as usual.
Nice photoshoppery too!
This is the same line trotted out time and time again whenever a minority group doesn’t conform to middle-class, white standards of ‘decency.’
Has Bolt commented on this gem:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/7400893/California-state-senator-who-opposed-gay-rights-announces-he-is-homosexual.html
I actually sympathise with Abbot on this one.
When I was a teenager I was bullied, bashed, locked in a cupboard and subjected to attempted anal rape by a homosexual, so now I am dead scared of them.
I know not all gays are like this, but don’t I have a reason to be scared?
Angra, I agree that you have a reason to feel scared, much like any other victim of violence begins to be fearful of people who are like their attackers, but that is very different from Abbott saying that he feels threatened because homosexuality:
He is expressing a fairly blatant ‘fear of the other’ which can lead to very poor choices when it comes to dealing with anyone who doesn’t fit his notion of ‘the right order of things’. To me, this is a character issue that goes beyond his views on homosexuality.
Sorry for the obscure comment, but whichever of you guys is behind the Graeme Bird Twitter, well done. It’s fucking hilarious!
…challenges orthodox notions of the right order of things. In other words, my view of the world is orthodox, and anyone who has different views cannot be right; therefore they are not to be tolerated. Funny how this seems to be a common thread among the Right…..
I’m sorry for your experience Angra, but what you need to be afraid of is rapists, not homosexuals.
I am not a “right winger” person – in fact I do not really know what this means. Maybe “reactionary” is better term to describe such people.
But there ARE norms in society, and people have a right to be threatened when some of these norms are abused.
I have had quite a few gay friends in Sydney, (partially as an attempt to get over my prejudice – see above post for reason why). They used to boast about the drugs they did and the partners they had after Mardi Gras. They even had a competition to see how many “partners” they could “have” on the evening in question. The record winner boasted of 35.
To me this breaks the reasonable norms of a stable society and I claim the right to feel threatened by this.
LOL! The first comment on the anti Abbott parental leave thread:
Shorter sheep: how dare you behave in an even handed manner!
You seem to be under the impression that heterosexuals do not engage in the same sorts of activities Angra. Do you think heterosexuals are exclusively monogamous?
How many times have you heard blokes talking about how many chicks they banged over the weekend, or women going on pub crawls to pick up footballers and tradies wearing extremely scant attire, falling all over the roads, throwing up in gutters, etc.
You claim that there are certain norms in society, well in my opinion, sexually charged males who happen to be homosexual are behaving entirely normally, in accordance with the same mannerisms of sexually charged males (and females) who happen to be heterosexual. This is the norm, your idea of some sort of sexually reserved monogamous society does not exist and has never existed even among heterosexuals.
And if you are worried about rapists, well there are an awful lot of heterosexual rapists out there.
Homosexuality is a “deviation” from the norm as a matter of fact, that doesn’t at all make it a bad thing, simply because something is deviant doesn’t mean it is immoral, like people who write with their left hand.
Angra,
I think it’s been long accepted that rape is about power…not sex.
Was the person openly homosexual, I’m just curious if you’re completely aware
there are men who think they’re heterosexual who rape anally?
Either way, there are no rules, bullies and rapists can be of any make or persuasion, whilst you might naturally have some fear (if indeed this was a person who actually identified themselves as gay) it’s a mistake connect your trauma with all gay people…it’s simply not about that.
Ugh, i just read you second post…you need to go meet some other gay people.
There is a utterly false idea that all gay people are rampantly promiscuous…I’m
sorry but thats such a moronic cliche…you know some bimbos in Sydney? then that tells me your experience of gay people is extremely narrow and ignorant.
you need to get out a bit more.
Angra, how do you cope with being near your gay friends when they are such a danger to you and our society?
I feel very sorry that you seem so threatened by people who don’t behave in your ‘normal’ way life must be very hard for you.
A question for you, how do you leave your house knowing that every day you are in contact with people like these?
- Swingers (people who share partners with others)
- Bondage fans (who do all kinds of stuff)
- People who have un-married sex with multiple people (sometimes at the same time)
- People in the sex industry (who do all of the above)
Angra, they are straight and they are all around you, in the supermarket, the bank, on the street!
OMG – What should we do!…..
Thanks for the warning, I won’t ever go out again, you have made me realise how threatened I am in any public place by these dangerous individuals.
“In other words, my view of the world is orthodox, and anyone who has different views cannot be right; therefore they are not to be tolerated. Funny how this seems to be a common thread among the Right…..”
And the Left….
As Geoffrey Robertson said in a BBC telvised debate on the AIDS epidemic – “buggery kills”, and this is compounded by excessive promiscuity among homosexuals.
“Excessive sexual promiscuity results in serious medical consequences — indeed, it is a recipe for transmitting disease and generating an epidemic.The HIV/AIDS epidemic has remained a predominantly gay issue in western countries primarily because of the greater degree of promiscuity among gays. A study based upon statistics from 1986 through 1990 estimated that 20-year-old gay men had a 50 percent chance of becoming HIV positive by age 55. As of June 2001, nearly 64 percent of men with AIDS were men who have had sex with men. Syphilis is also more common among gay men. The San Francisco Public Health Department recently reported that syphilis among the city’s gay and bisexual men was at epidemic levels. According to the San Francisco Chronicle:
“Experts believe syphilis is on the rise among gay and bisexual men because they are engaging in unprotected sex with multiple partners, many of whom they met in anonymous situations such as sex clubs, adult bookstores, meetings through the Internet and in bathhouses. The new data will show that in the 93 cases involving gay and bisexual men this year, the group reported having 1,225 sexual partners.”
A study done in Baltimore and reported in the Archives of Internal Medicine found that gay men contracted syphilis at three to four times the rate of heterosexuals. Promiscuity is the factor most responsible for the extreme rates of these and other Sexually Transmitted Diseases, many of which result in a shortened life span for men who have sex with men.”
JOHN R. DIGGS, JR., M.D.
I still claim my right to feel threatened.
…challenges orthodox notions of the right order of things. In other words, my view of the world is orthodox, and anyone who has different views cannot be right;
Monkeywrench, that pretty much encapsulates, my objection to social conservatives and religious fundamentalists.
Incorrect. Unprotected sexual penetration is a risk for disease transmission. And btw this is the case for hetero couples as well as same sex couples. Selective quoting much!
Fine. I shall retain my right to call you a homophobe.
Angra, you are attempting to derail the debate.
You are attempting to change the subject from homosexuality to promiscuity amongst gays.
Fact is, the problems associated with promiscuity are the same no matter what the sexual orientation.
I like being a troll, it brings out the Scandanavian in me!
ShaunHC – you are right in part, but the demonstrable high level of promiscuity in the gay community increases the risks.
Hey – I managed to get all the closet Heterophobes out into the open! Well done guys!
Threatened still has not been defined clearly.
I wonder if it means that the close proximity of a homosexual might make those who feel threatened engage in homosexual behaviour? The very thought of which makes me sick by the way.
Oh just piss off now Angra!
You start with a ‘sympathy’ comment but then very quickly derail the thread as ShaunHC pointed out and then you finally admit to being a troll.
So again, piss off if you have nothing to add to this thread.
Except you have not answered the evidence that promiscuous gay sex is a leading cause of STD’s in our society. THAT is why I feel threatened!
Presumably Tony Abbott too (God bless his little cotton socks)
#12 “When I was a teenager I was bullied, bashed, locked in a cupboard and subjected to attempted anal rape by a homosexual, so now I am dead scared of them.
I know not all gays are like this, but don’t I have a reason to be scared?”
#31 “Except you have not answered the evidence that promiscuous gay sex is a leading cause of STD’s in our society. THAT is why I feel threatened!”
Gee, way to go on the change in tack.
I’m gonna call you out as a liar. Liar.
That’s because there’s no evidence of the kind. You are feeling threatened for no reason.
Dom,
What I said is completely true and is a part of my youthful experience I have been trying to cope with for many years. I have even gone to counsellors to help deal with this – so please don’t denigrate me because of this.
The most you can accuse me of is having an ironic sense of humour!
Confessions- I feel threatened because a homosexual man beat me and tried to rape me. That seems a pretty good reason.
I think it’s time to move the conversation back on topic guys.
And sometimes I try and copy with it by humour.
Sorry if you don’t get the point.
I am just trying to say that Tony Abbott may have a point in feeling threatened by homosexuals – the original point. Because in my emotional experience homosexuals = violence = attempted rape = teenage horror, which I am still trying to get over.
So please cut me some slack.
How about an apology?
Angra: You just said @ 32 the reason you feel threatened is because of the spread of STDs – which btw you falsely attribute solely to same sex couples.
Dave: agreed.
{Removed – comment on the issues, please – Tobby}
Homosexuals account for 3-4% of all gonorrhea cases, 60% of all syphilis cases, and 17% of all hospital admissions (other than for STDs) in the United States. They make up only 1-2% of the population.
Tobby, could you please make sure Angra also comments on the issues?, he’s using some kind of personal event, of which we have no idea if there’s any basis in truth…and his supposed friendship (again, who knows if it’s true) with some promiscuous bimbos to legitimize his homophobia.
It’s as ugly as AB’s post.
Angra, you have explained your personal experience and how it has affected your feelings. But based on all available knowledge about a person who is a public figure, Tony Abbott has not suffered those same experiences and there seems to be no way that your personal explanation explains his own comment.
Dave has asked for the discussion to be brought back on topic, and you’re still making repeated comments going over the same personal issues. I think anyone reading this thread has enough information to understand and form an opinion about what you have said regarding your experience and how it has affected you, and about whether or not that relates to the issues raised in Dave’s post, so any more comments about your personal story (from you or others) will be removed.
Angra…1-2% of the population eh? that would be all the ones in the closet too?
Just what is the point of those statistics? (wherever you cherry picked them from..who knows if there’s any credibility in anything you say now…)
all gay people are bad guys?
Your credibility is shot here…let us know when you have something useful to add to the debate.
Tobias – I go back to an original post. Responsible society accepts certain norms of behaviour – for example we condemn defecating in public, graffitti on public monuments, physical violence, etc. Many of these norms become enshrined in law (although I know the relationship between ethics and law is complicated – but try reading some Bentham. Kant or even John Rawls).
Many people believe that homosexuality is a contravention of norms concerning the relationship between men and womens, the protection and support of children, and the future growth of our population etc, that most people in society support. This is what I think Abbott is saying. He is a Catholic so he is being true to hie beliefs.
You may condemn Abbot (as I would) on many of his political policies, but to do so on this issue is not reasonable, as he represents the view of a great majority of the Australian population.
So please be fair.
Actually the reason the US has high rates of STDs is because they have not embraced a harm minimisation approach to their health policies. Very different to Australia, which is why the 2 countries aren’t comparable.
Also interesting that someone would feel threatened by homosexuals in another country. I wonder if Abbott feels this too?
“In June 2007, the results of a Galaxy poll commissioned by advocacy group GetUp! were released. The poll measured opinions of 1100 Australians aged 16 and over.[14]
71% of respondents agreed that same-sex partners should have the same legal rights as de facto heterosexual couples.
57% of respondents supported same-sex marriage. The poll suggests a 20-point jump in support since 2004, when Newspoll found 38% in favour and 44% against.”
Actually the “great majority” of Australians don’t seem to be threatened by homosexuality at all. Sorry ’bout your prejudice bro.
Many people believe that mixed marriages are a contravention of norms concerning the relationship between the races, the protection and support of children, and the future growth of our population etc, that most people in society support.
There, that doesn’t look offensive now, does it?
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