It’s that time of the week when we kick off a fresh thread, but with the nation in election mode we’ll be doing a few things differently here. This is our regular open thread — use it to talk about anything you like that is not connected to the federal election campaign. We’ll be moving forward with some extra threads to let everyone give their links and comments about what’s going on with the election campaigning and coverage. As always, the latest threads will have links in the sidebar to the right.
NB: To make sure readers know what’s going on, I have bumped this post to the top of the page for today — the other threads I mentioned are below, and all threads will be in the sidebar.
Let’s kick off with some climate news, which was mentioned by monkeywrench in the weekend thread. The US National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) has released its “State of the Climate” report for June 2010:
For me, the key points in the report are these:
June 2010 was the fourth consecutive warmest month on record (March, April, and May 2010 were also the warmest on record). This was the 304th consecutive month with a global temperature above the 20th century average. The last month with below-average temperature was February 1985.
If that doesn’t count as evidence of a clear (and alarming) long-term trend, I don’t know what does.
Have at it.
92 Comments
More on the oksana/mel show:
Mel’s lawyers are alleging extortion:
http://www.tmz.com/2010/07/15/mel-gibson-oksana-grigorieva-court-audio-tapes-custody-stripped/
Don’t forget when the CSIRO released their “State of the Climate” report apparently it was all a big conspiracy … can you believe NOAA are in on it as well?
Still, over in the surreal world of blogging at Bolt’s place, proof is often demanded for the existence of the Greenhouse effect and CO2 is regularly claimed to be inconsequential – don’t you know its just a trace gas? Never mind the fact that it is about 390ppm compared to the Ozone at 8ppm. All you need to do is divide 390 by one million and there you have it – its a tiny percentage ipso facto it does nothing.
Aye.
NOAA (Bolt and the Boltstrokers would argue) — who are they? Funds-hungry scienticians*, no doubt.
No, I’m gonna close my eyes and squint and it’ll all go away. I’m sticking to my guns. And if I change my mind, I’ll simply deny I ever had any other view.
*”Scientitians” courtesy of The Simpsons.
The BBC reports that comparative photos of Mt Everest taken in 1921 and 2010 show substantial ice loss.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-10660130
“If the present rate of melting continues, many of these glaciers will be severely diminished by the middle of this century…The melt rate in this region of central and eastern Himalaya is extreme and is devastating.”
So maybe the claims in the vilified UN report weren’t so far off the mark. Also note Ben Sandilands report on the loss of tropical glaciers in West Papua. They could be all gone in 5 years.
Angra @4
Sorry, but it takes more than two photos to prove a consistent trend. That’s all I’m saying.
I can’t view the video where I am, but AB’s running a “what is it with the left and violence” thread again. And he’s pointing to a story where somebody’s still beating the drum about the “say it, don’t spray it” incident. Fair enough on that second one, but Teh Lefts doesn’t have it all its own way. For example (lets start with an australian example):
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/labor-candidate-flees-after-two-suspected-shootings-20100719-10g90.html
And over to the land of the free:
http://thinkprogress.org/2010/03/23/slaughter-threats/
http://www2.dailyprogress.com/cdp/news/local/crime/article/damage_at_home_of_perriello_brother_under_investigation/54038/
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20001091-503544.html
http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local-beat/White-Powder-Package-Sent-to-Congressman-Weiners-Office-89136827.html
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2010/03/25/condom-sent-to-democrat-who-voted-for-health-care-bill/?fbid=JIUogcgQcNy
http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2010/03/23/coordinated-anti-democratic-vandalism-in-at-least-3-states/
http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/03/vandal_attacks_on_dem_offices_nationwide.php
http://www.wkrn.com/global/story.asp?s=12208009
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=5463260&page=1
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0310/34907.html
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0310/34953.html
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/88863-hoyer-dem-and-gop-leaders-share-concerns-over-spike-in-lawmaker-threats
And that last one comes with these delightful comments:
MOC@5, I disagree. Two photos can indicate a trend if the time between photos was long enough and the subject matter is slow to change. If glaciers came and went every year, I think you would have a point, but glaciers only move slowing (some would say glacially) and do not vary in length much throughout the year.
Having said that, I don’t think these two photographs indicate much at all.
@PeeBee and @Matthew of Canberra
Obviously, there are more than two photographs: http://sites.asiasociety.org/riversofice/interactive
re Glaciers.
Of course photos aren’t evidence. The evidence is in the painstaking long term scientific measurements of ice mass over time. There is plenty of this around – just read Ben’s article over the weekend.
However photos are a powerful illustration of the scientific facts, and have much greater impact in the media than the raw data.
MoC@5
That could easily be rephrased “two photos of nearly every glacier on Earth”, each showing large-scale volume loss….would that possibly indicate a trend?
Last night’s Q&A.. Anyone notice the cheer squad, front right two rows (if you’re looking toward the stage)? Clapped ANYTHING that Bishop said.
BTW, if looks and composure have anything to do with successful politics then Plibersek for leader
And WTF was Ackerman on? “Aaaahh, but I write for the Telegraph” (which is owned by Murdoch,)…Hmm he’s confusing the Labour Party with the State/Govt, sad thing is, it would be lost on the idiots that support trollumnists like Ackerman.
So summing up, on the right you had Akerman and Bishop and on the so called left we had Plibersek and Aly who were both calm and rational throughout. There’s just no contest (IMHO). Two, who came across as considered intellectuals and the other two ranting and raving with rhetoric. For Julie Bishop to question anyone’s loyalty and keep a straight face was hilarious.
cbp,
The 2 photos that you linked are of different glaciers taken 12 years apart (1909 & 1921) — so those photos prove nothing, unless you want to contend that the decrease was actually caused by warming beginning long before 1921, which would, I suspect, put a bit of a hole in the theory of AGW.
as Angra states at @8, the real proof is in measurements of ice mass taken over long periods of time.
mw @9
“That could easily be rephrased “two photos of nearly every glacier on Earth”, each showing large-scale volume loss….would that possibly indicate a trend?”
Nope. The problem is that two points in time don’t actually show how the ice varies over time. PeeBee is right that the rate of change over time is important. Has that level of loss happened before? If so, how often? Two photos don’t demonstrate that. Can I take a photo in summer in 1921, and then another one in winter in 2010 and show the opposite effect? That’s the information that a couple of photos don’t tell you.
This is amazing:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/07/20/2958423.htm
Syria has banned women from wearing the full face veil on the campuses of the country’s universities.
AB is right – it’s clearly not a case of islamophobia (and neither, obviously, are the restrictions in turkey). But it IS an interesting thing for Syria to do – and I don’t know enough about internal Syrian goings-on to have the foggiest idea where it came from or what it means.
Listening to … goodness knows, something from the BBC I think … on the weekend, about religious persecution. A couple of interesting comments were made – one being that Christians have been attacked (in Sri Lanka, I think) by Buddhists during the troubles, and the other being that Christians were basically free from any sort of persecution under Saddam in Iraq – whereas they’re pretty much on the run there now. Curiously, John Cleary recently did a story about Palestinian Christians but I haven’t got very far into it. He starts by claiming that there are more “jerusalem christians” living in Sydney now than there are living in Jerusalem. Not quite sure what that means.
Meanwhile, this is just stupid:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jacob-heilbrunn/dont-refudiate-sarah-pali_b_651030.html
Sarah Palin’s had some spelling malfunctions in her tweets of late, and it’s become the stuff of much humor. That really tish’s me. Stick to the facts, people. It’s not like what she actually SAYS isn’t occasionally worth focusing on (that nazi-comparison business, for example), and this rubbish about whether “repudiate” should have an ‘f’ in it is just cheap and stupid. Typos happen. Some of her tweets (like any tweets) read like stream-of-consciousness sometimes. They’re not reviewed and edited. Big deal.
MoC @ 12
Minor, incy-wincy problem: glaciers do not suffer significant seasonal changes to their mass balance. They’re not like the Arctic Sea-Ice, which is relatively thin and prone to seasonal melt/freeze cycles, as we all know. So a picture of a glacier in summer 1921 can be confidently compared with one taken in winter 2010, or vice versa; the mass balance changes will be apparent. I understand what you’re getting at as regards trends, but to assume glaciers advance by huge amounts in winter, and retreat by similar volumes in summer….well, that’s just plain daft, lad.
re. Glaciers again.
If you want the data rather than pretty pictures, try…
World Glacier Monitoring Service
http://www.geo.unizh.ch/wgms/
National Snow and Ice Data Center
http://nsidc.org/
The effective rate of change in glacier thickness, also known as the glaciological mass balance, is a measure of the average change in a glacier’s thickness after correcting for changes in density associated with the compaction of snow and conversion to ice. 173 glaciers have been measured at least 5 times between 1970 and 2004 (Dyurgerov and Meier 2005).
All survey regions except Scandinavia show a net thinning.
During this period, 83% of surveyed glaciers showed thinning with an average loss across all glaciers of 0.31 m/yr.
The most rapidly growing glacier in the sample is Engabreen glacier in Norway with a thickening of 0.64 m/yr. The most rapidly shrinking was Ivory glacier in New Zealand which was thinning at 2.4 m/yr. Ivory glacier had totally disintegrated by 1988.
Hard to believe I know, but Bolt has failed to confect any outrage over the story of a bunch of Xavier boys going on a shop lifting spree across the ditch.
http://www.theage.com.au/national/education/xavier-college-students-on-nz-shoplift-binge-20100719-10hu8.html?autostart=1
Just imagine if it had have been a school with predominantly ethnic Muslim attendance or even a high indigenous enrolment.
JMJ @17
Clearly the “wrong kind of emigrants”.
But if forced, I suspect it’ll be filed under ‘what is the world coming to’, or possibly an example of the MSM’s anti-catholic bias.
monkeywrench @15
Give me a graph any day. Pictures are nice, but without context they’re not really worth 1000 words at all.
I know we shouldn’t bother with all the wackos that are out there, but this one is too funny to pass up. There’s someone called Henry Makow with a US blog who is seriously deranged – (makes Charlie Manson looks sane) who is claiming that Julia Gillard is a satanist! as well as a communist and the head of a satanic Alpha Lodge and whose witch name is The Bestia.
http://www.henrymakow.com/new_aussie_pm_is_communist_les.html
“”Some of the deadliest, most effective and disarming assassins are women. Within the Alpha Lodges they are worshipped as embodiments of the Dark Goddess – who is known by many names and is virgin still! Currently the Outer Head of the Alpha Lodge Australasia is a very highly placed and successful Federal politician – whose Satanic name is Bestia…and that person is Julia Gillard.”
Scary! Maybe we should inform Mr. Bolt, he’s sure to be interested.
Good grief Angra — how did you find that ???
I’m not sure what scares me more — this Makow bloke or the commenters that agree with him
You left out that apparently she’s a Lesbian and a child abuser as well — I’m not sure about AB, but I reckon her lawyers might be interested.
MOC @ 18, I shouldn’t wonder that he might blame it on a sad malaise that has overtaken the country due to the preponderance of labour governments.
Here it is:
So? Fact of the matter is Akerman is paid to write, paid to toe the Telegraph’s line. What’s the difference? Only an idiot would believe that either were writing with honourable intentions.
From Angra’s link:
What a nutter, doesn’t even understand that athiests don’t believe in supernatural beings, whether they are god or the devil…
Boswell. Ha hahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
I have the full text of that Boswell media release about the national curriculum. It’s one of the most hilarious things I’ve ever read.
Toby, Boswell’s a Nationals Senator from Queensland, speaking to his natural constituents in the terms he believes they want to hear. Scary rhetoric, maybe, but of little consequence.
Actually Makow invented the board game Scruples, and has a genuine PhD from the Uni of Toronto. However he is a serious weirdo, believing the world is danger of being taken over by communists/satanists/lesbians/freemasons. He is also a chronic anti-Semite.
Just your typical US conspiracy blogger. Bred from the same stable as David Koresh and Timothy McVeigh. What is it with these people who are so divorced from reality? The scary thing is as GavinM points out, he seems to have quite a few Australian followers.
Makes you kinda sympathetic to Conroy’s nanny filter
I think this is the Boswell media release in question. It is indeed hilarious.
http://ronboswell.com/?p=836
Boswell – a fitting companion for Makow.
Angra @27
“However he is a serious weirdo, believing the world is danger of being taken over by communists/satanists/lesbians/freemasons”
And the illuminati, apparently – but, I’m shocked to say, not shape-changing space lizards.
“Bred from the same stable as David Koresh and Timothy McVeigh”
Oi – hang on a second, there. Those guys got out and DID something. They weren’t just bloggers and theorists, they put their beliefs into action. I just don’t think that’s a fair comparison.
Although … my inner conspiracy theorist has to wonder if koresh was, you know, the second coming. If not, then is he a template for what we can expect? I guess when The Man really does turn up, he better be much more heavily armed that koresh was or he’s going down.
/sarc, obviously
Ben Fordham has been found guilty. So much for ACA journalists’ integrity. What do you MSM guys say to this?
http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/aca-reporter-found-guilty-of–breaching—listening-devices-law-20100720-10j6j.html
Oooh, this is interesting:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/07/20/2959346.htm
“Former defence minister Joel Fitzgibbon has launched legal action against four newspapers over reports about his alleged links with a Chinese-Australian businesswoman.”
“The claims lodged in the ACT Supreme Court say the stories published in the Sydney Morning Herald, Canberra Times, The Age and the Financial Review were sensationalised and the journalists knew the claims were false. ”
Hmm. All fairfax. I guess it was the SMH that was really breaking the “leaks” – the murdoch stable was just repeating it and adding their own spin.
Ok Matthew @30 – pax vobiscum for the time being. I think we can both agree that some of these US nut-jobs are seriously deranged – on a level with any “Islamic fundamentalist terrorists” you can name. Christian terrorists don’t seem so newsworthy.
By the way David Koresh is a bit different. He grew up as a Shepherds Rod Adherent – offshoots of the SDA church – we can’t accuse them of being in the same camp. Otherwise we would have to condemn dear old uncle Bob Ellis (see the Nostradamus Kid). He grew up as an SDA in Lismore and had Shepherds Rods’ acquaintances. (I speak with inside knowledge.)
All religions have seriously wacko offshoots. Doesn’t mean you have to throw out the baby… etc.
The Guardian reports that since the introduction of The Times paywall, on-line readership has dropped 90%. Only around 15,000 have bothered to pay for registration. The Times titles are running at a loss of around $500,000 per day.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/jul/20/times-paywall-readership
If you are connected via a home or small business router to get on-line (as most of us probably are) a new security vulnerability has been exposed which leaves us open to hijacking of our connection and/or remote access to our computer by grabbing the ip address. This affects millions of users. As well as the bad guys, security services know all about this technique too.
Best to upgrade the firmware on your router and to change the default password to something stronger.
http://www.notebooks.com/2010/07/15/how-to-secure-your-router-against-a-hack-compromising-many-popular-routers/
Young journalists once dreamed of trotting the globe in pursuit of a story, but the NY Times now reports that instead many are working online shackled to their computers, where they try to eke out a fresh thought or be first to report even the smallest nugget of news — anything that will impress Google’s algorithms and draw readers their way. The New York Times, The Washington Post, and The Los Angeles Times all display a ‘most viewed’ list on their home pages; some media outlets, including Bloomberg News and Gawker Media, now pay writers based in part on how many readers click on their articles. ‘At a [traditional] paper, your only real stress point is in the evening when you’re actually sitting there on deadline, trying to file,’ says Jim VandeHei, Politico’s executive editor. ‘Now at any point in the day starting at 5 in the morning, there can be that same level of intensity and pressure to get something out.’
The pace has led to substantial turnover in staff at digital news organizations. At Politico, roughly a dozen reporters have left in the first half of the year — a big number for a newsroom that has only about 70 reporters and editors.
What’s Crikey’s experience?
Obama is pressuring Cameron on the release of the Lockerbie bomber. But few news outlets have covered the research by Paul Foot showing how flawed and unjust the original conviction of al-Megrahi was. Evidence was flimsy or planted, associates were released, witnesses were bribed and coerced, and al-Megrahi was released on condition that he not launch an appeal which would have brought these embarrassing fact to light.
See Paul Foot’s “Lockerbie: Flight from Justice”
Pilger covers it –
http://www.johnpilger.com/page.asp?partid=547
As The Guardian reported in 2004 –
“There is, in my opinion (not necessarily shared by the families), an explanation for all this, an explanation so shocking that no one in high places can contemplate it. It is that the Lockerbie bombing was carried out not by Libyans at all but by terrorists based in Syria and hired by Iran to avenge the shooting down in the summer of 1988 of an Iranian civil airliner by a US warship. This was the line followed by both British and US police and intelligence investigators after Lockerbie. Through favoured newspapers like the Sunday Times, the investigators named the suspects – some of whom had been found with home-made bombs similar to the one used at Lockerbie.
This line of inquiry persisted until April 1989, when a phone call from President Bush senior to Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher warned her not to proceed with it. A year later, British and US armed forces prepared for an attack on Saddam Hussein’s occupying forces in Kuwait. Their coalition desperately needed troops from an Arab country. These were supplied by Syria, which promptly dropped out of the frame of Lockerbie suspects. “
An interesting theme is developing in certain quarters, and today it’s touched down on AB’s block for the second time.
“So much for the starvation in the “concentration camp” in Gaza that we’re told is caused by a savage Israeli blockade. Unless the Left really does think hell is a luxury shopping mall.”
http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/a_few_ships_must_have_snuck_past_those_wicked_jews/
He (tries to) link to a story about a shopping mall that’s just opened in Gaza. He calls it a “luxury shopping mall”, whatever that is (presumably it’s anywhere alicia silverstone shops
). It doesn’t look all that luxury to me, unless you think “buying things” is a luxury. Here’s the page he links to:
http://www.tomgrossmedia.com/mideastdispatches/archives/001127.html
Lots of good pictures there. If you do an image search, you’ll find a paltimes story about it:
http://www.paltimes.net/arabic/read.php?news_id=115527
Translate it using google (oh, babelfish, why won’t you do arabic?)
http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.paltimes.net%2Farabic%2Fread.php%3Fnews_id%3D115527&sl=ar&tl=en
A little bit of actual information there (how refreshing!). Yes, it’s a big deal. It’s also (apparently) the first shopping center built in 4 years. And it doesn’t strike me as all that “luxury”, but maybe my lifestyle is just more opulent than AB’s and I’ve become too accustomed to things like electric lights, cash registers and linoleum.
Clearly the reporting of the situation in Gaza is simplistic and stupid. But … I already knew that. Why does the antidote have to be more of the same?
Now – the comments over there, coming from essentially the same echo-chamber that created the story in the first place, will eventually mention the “Olympic-sized swimming pools” and “the new luxury restaurants”
The pool is ridiculous. It was built (according to the stories online) with outside donor money, and yes I would have thought the resources could have been much better applied. Unfortunately, I’d suggest that the people who built it couldn’t care less, and money talks. I’m not sure that it says very much about the general conditions of life, though. Saddam Hussein had a gold toilet – life was still pretty crap for a lot of other Iraqis.
The “new” luxury restaurant is the “Roots Club”. and it’s been there for years, although it seems to have been upgraded recently. It is clearly a big restaurant.
http://www.rootsclub.ps/services.php#roots-restaurant
This all gets reported as “Olympic-sized swimming poolS and new luxury restaurantsS” (counting isn’t everyone’s thing)
So yes, it’s all very clever and sarcastic. But I’m not sure what it’s supposed to prove. Even Israel will tell you it blockades building materials, so jokes about “where’d they get the concrete” are silly, unless your point is that Israel is lying. Israel DID allow some building materials over in the first half of 2010 – that’s also not disputed. Apparently we now know where it went.
This is like my comment about those two photos of the glacier. A couple of points don’t tell the whole story. A photo of an utterly stupid swimming pool and a single shopping center doesn’t prove that gazans are living high on the hog (so to speak).
But they DO give the Israeli government an easy propaganda win:
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5in1Yxul18eE4ioyDjeFuKJjxbdTA
Can anyone speak to this?
“Green diet push angers experts’
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/green-diet-push-angers-experts/story-e6frg6n6-1225894792847
I’m suspicious. The quote from Kate Carnell is predictable. But the stuff from CSIRO … I’d like to see the actual submissions. When a reporter sees the need to splice together bits of sentences to support their case, I’m VERY suspicious. Were the restrictions on red meat based on medical grounds (valid or otherwise) or was there really an environmental agenda? Does anyone have links to the actual source material?
Meanwhile, this reminds me of my earlier post:
http://blogs.crikey.com.au/purepoison/2010/07/16/weekend-talk-thread-july-16-18/comment-page-1/#comment-31406
re 30.
Makow is at it again! This time poor Julia is supposedly a member of the O.o.t.T – (wait for it, drum roll) – the Order of the Toilet no less!
“The Order of the Toilet is a traditional left hand path initiatory body whose members adhere to the largely neglected latrine doctrines of the Vama Marga. Order members are encouraged to engage in Bathroom practices as often as possible and no less than daily. The teachings and ordeals of the Outer O.o.t.T. are divided into the categories of the Champagne and the Caviar initiations.
The Order of the Toilet seeks to inculcate within its membership and the wider world, a cultivated love for and re-establishment of the hitherto secret magick of the night-soil tradition of the Western Sinister current.”
And apparently they are recruiting new members.
“The Order of the Toilet asks young women (sixteen years and over) who wish to dedicate themselves to the urinary and faecal curriculum of the O.o.t.T. to forward an up to date medical certificate as to sexually transmitted disease and a full frontal naked and autographed photograph of themselves to the Outer Head of the O.o.t.T. together with a five-hundred word essay explaining their understanding of the latrine doctrines.”
All now endorsed by no less an authority than David Icke.
http://www.henrymakow.com/satanist_insider.html
Rather than Mr Bolt, maybe this stuff is more up Fake Steve Fieldings alley (could have phrased that better I suppose).
Justice for Arabs Israeli style.
The Guardian reports that a Palestinian man has been convicted of rape and sentences to 18 months prison after having consensual sex with a woman who had believed him to be a fellow Jew. When she later found out that he was not Jewish but an Arab, she filed a criminal complaint for rape and indecent assault.
Gideon Levy, a liberal Israeli commentator, was quoted as saying: “I would like to raise only one question with the judge. What if this guy had been a Jew who pretended to be a Muslim and had sex with a Muslim woman? Would he have been convicted of rape? The answer is: of course not.”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jul/21/arab-guilty-rape-consensual-sex-jew
Angra @41
I’m actually finding that story hard to believe, but I’ll put that aside for the moment. There are a number of things that are very weird about that story. Apart from the obvious creepiness about it, and the quite bizarre sort of racism in play.
Compare these two paragraphs:
And
Really? I’m having trouble making those two clams fit together. There’s nothing about that liaison that says “serious relationship”.
I wonder if jewish men who lie about their family connections or career prospects would find themselves similarly imprisoned? Or what about men or women who lie about their past (or current) affairs? At what point does this look really OBVIOUSLY stupid?
Assuming this is true, it’s bonkers. This is the sort of crap we expect from Iran or Saudi Arabia.
Andrew Breitbart strikes again:
http://www.kansascity.com/2010/07/20/2097009_race-and-politics-takes-a-strange.html?storylink=omni_popular
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0710/NAACP_We_were_snookered.html
Take some comments, cut and splice them, make sure it looks bad enough and post it – voila, somebody loses her job. Meanwhile, just about everyone involved is backpedalling and saying the decision was wrong … and Breitbart gets publicity.
“clams”
Perhaps not so obviously, I mean “claims”.
MoC at 42
There’s a fuller report in the UK Telegraph here –
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/7901025/Palestinian-jailed-for-rape-after-claiming-to-be-Jewish.html
“”It is very well known that Israeli-Palestinians living in Israel disguise themselves,” said Leah Tsemel, a human-rights lawyer. “You change your accent and you change your dress because if you look like an Arab you face harassment.
“If you want to enter a pub, you’d better not look like an Arab and if you want to have sex with an Israeli girl, you had better not look like an Arab.”
“In the context of Israeli society, you can see that some women would feel very strongly that they had been violated by someone who says he is Jewish but is not,” said a former senior justice ministry official.
“The question is whether the state should punish somebody in that situation. It puts the law in the position of what could loosely be described as discrimination. I would feel intuitively uncomfortable about prosecuting someone for something like that.”
Looks like one law for Arabs, another for Jews.
ACA are running a despicable piece right now about a so-called plan to repatriate asylum seekers to their homelands with money to start up businesses, paid for by Aussie taxpayers! Predictable outrage from talk radio shock-jocks and “people in the street”. Lots of outraged small business people.
No reference to who has suggested this “plan” and what legitimacy it has. Some vague mention of an outfit called International Migration (didn’t catch it exactly.) No evidence of any Australian group actually supporting such an idea, le alone any political party – all rumour and fabricated shock.
You cannot call this type of garbage “journalism” by any stretch of the imagination.
Aargh!
Matt. Re, 43
If the Obama administration is going to FIRE a government employee on the spot, without any investigation, over something a blog puts out there… who is in the wrong??
I saw the interview with Sherrod today. She said she was driving when she was asked for her resignation. She was actually TOLD to pull over and write it. By the US GOVERNMENT. Because of something a blog said. Who is in the wrong, Matt???
And the comments were NOT cut and spliced… as you would have everyone here believe. They were played exactly as Sherrod spoke them. Just not in their entirety.
If anything, this episode exposes what an amatuer, incompetent pack of clowns are in charge of the United States these days. And how afraid they are of the factions of the American media they don’t already control.
Further to my 47 and a very, very important point.
The blog video Matt mentioned appeared on-line at at say, 8am yesterday. Obama had the woman sacked THAT SAME DAY.
The ACA story is based solely on some vague suggestions from the International Organisation for Migration. They are an international migration agency. They are nothing to do with refugees or asylum seekers in Australia!
Web site here –
http://www.iom.int/jahia/Jahia/about-iom/lang/en
They may well a a reputable organisation, but what on earth have they do do with asylum seeker policy in Australia?
This ACA ‘story’ is a complete beat-up. The whole thing is nonsense.
I hope Media Watch get on to this and rip it to shreds as it deserves. A non-existent story from a completely irrelevant organisation that is not even Australian and has absolutely nothing to do with asylum seeker policy.
Double-aargh!!!
My ignorance – sorry.
IOM did manage the processing facilities on Nauru and PNG (Manus) for the Australian Government. But these are no-longer operative surely? From their web site –
“Migration Issues
At the request of the Government of Australia, IOM administers the off-shore processing centres in Nauru and Papua New Guinea for migrants in an irregular situation. In coordination with the relevant agencies of the Australian Government and host governments who are responsible for the security of the facilities, IOM provides specific services in the management of the centres. Responsibilities cover arranging for the provision of food and water, power, sanitation, medical and healthcare and other identified special needs for the duration of the stay of the migrants at these centres.
Migrants who volunteer to return home are assisted by IOM in processing their travel documents, and travel arrangements made on their behalf to their country of origin. Reintegration assistance in cash is also provided. The estimated cost of the medical component associated with this activity is included in the total budget reflected under this heading. ”
My original outrage still stands.
He’s from The International Organization for Migration:
http://www.iom.int/jahia/jsp/index.jsp
It’s a legitimate NGO, and it’s been around for a while. The problem with that article on ACA (which you can see the video for on their web site) is that it doesn’t TELL us anything. It’s got a couple of grabs with the representative for credibility, but nothing comes from the horse’s mouth. What we get instead is ACA’s scary-music version and many times more footage of people being asked set-up questions. Nobody watching that segment is even slightly informed as to what IOM’s proposal is, and I’m damned if I’m believing ACA’s take on it.
And you’re right, it’s nothing official. Nobody is endorsing it, whatever it is.
And I must say – I’m shocked to see such a natural synergy between MTR and ACA. That must be so proud of their accomplishment.
I particularly liked Steve Price’s comment about attracting the right kind of refugees. That was beautiful.
Actually, Angra, I wonder …. was that spot an ad for MTR?
Every climate “sceptic” should read this.
It’s fairly devestating to your collapsing cause.
re. IOM and the ACA fluff, how can you repatriate a refugee anyway? Isn’t the whole point of recognising people as refugees is that they are fleeing persecution in their home country? Let’s repatriate the Dalai Lama to Tibet.
Excellent. If Labor did a lot more of this, they’d deflate the Greens at source. This new solar scheme will have two great benefits: the closure of Hazelwood power station, and the intense annoyance of Andrew Bolt. It’s worth it for the latter alone.
Steve Fielding tries for some cheap stunts at the expense of our troops in Afghanistan. The man is such an embarrassment.
Then stay there, and don’t come back. It’s not as if Australia will be the poorer for your absence.
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/steve-fielding-mia-in-afghanistan-20100721-10l65.html?autostart=1
There is an excellent piece of good investigative journalism underway into the lobbying and promotion of asbestos products to developing countries. Called “Dangers in the Dust:Inside the Global Asbestos Trade” it is a joint investigation by the International Consortium of Investigative Journalists and the BBC.
Too long and complex to quote, but the upshot is the major asbestos producers are lobbying hard and successfully to sell their products to developing countries where there is limited safety legislation. They have marshalled a bunch of tame scientists to ‘prove’ that good asbestos is harmless, even though they can’t market the products to countries like the US, UK and Australia where they are banned. Similar tactics are being used to the tobacco industry in the 70′s and 80s.
“An analysis by the International Consortium of Investigative Journalists has tracked nearly $100 million in public and private money spent by these groups since the mid-1980s in three countries alone — Canada, India and Brazil — to keep asbestos in commerce. Their strategy, critics say, is one borrowed from the tobacco industry: create doubt, contest litigation, and delay regulation. “It’s totally unethical,” says Jukka Takala, director of the European Agency for Safety and Health at Work and a former ILO official. “It’s almost criminal. Asbestos cannot be used safely. It is clearly a carcinogen. It kills people.”
Check it out. It’s worth a thread on it own…
http://www.publicintegrity.org/investigations/asbestos/articles/entry/2183/
If I see another “Welshed” headline……anyone else noticed this demeaning and racist term has suddenly acquired a new lease of life, especially in The Australian? I feel a complaint to the Press Council coming on…
Angra@57
Good luck in any crusade to get China, India, Brazil and Russia to stop mining and using asbestos — there may be some chance with Canada, but I can’t see the others being persuaded to stop any time soon.
Monkey@58
“Welsh” is, according to the dictionary, a legitimate term describing the act of going back on a promise or wager, so I suspect that any complaint of racism towards anyone using it won’t get far.
Having said that, when I was at school we were taught that the correct terminolgy is “welch” — so I suspect either pronunciation is correct.
” a legitimate term” Gavin? Is there some genetic predisposition that causes Welsh people to renege on agreements? Or is this just one of those English insults that have crept into the language and now seem “legitimate” through usage?
““Welsh” is, according to the dictionary, a legitimate term describing the act of going back on a promise or wager, so I suspect that any complaint of racism towards anyone using it won’t get far”
Riiight, so I can say someone ‘jewed’ me If I get ripped off? As far as I’m concerned ‘Welshed’ is a derogatory term, the dictionary is not the arbiter of what is and isn’t derogatory.
having ranted about that I understand that in different places terms might not seem derogatory (bear in mind that monkeywrench and I are Welsh, or rather we’re from Wales). Try and raise a banner saying ‘Go pakis’ at Edgbaston.
Just a variation…
welch [wɛlʃ]
vb
(Group Games / Gambling, except Cards) a variant spelling of welsh
welcher n
Welch [wɛlʃ]
adj
(Linguistics / Languages) (Social Science / Peoples) (Placename) an archaic spelling of Welsh1
Collins English Dictionary – Complete and Unabridged © HarperCollins Publishers 1991, 1994, 1998, 2000, 2003
I noticed monkeywrench, I raised it with my colleagues, they didn’t agree, accept for one, who said but “you’re just a Welsh C***”….With friends like that
All I’m saying MW and Rob, is that the term is being correctly used by The Australian in terms of its definition in the dictionary, therefore I suspect its highly unlikely that any charge of racism levelled against the paper for using it would be upheld.
Please feel free to prove me wrong by winning such a case against them in court.
For the record, I have Welsh and Scots on my mother’s side of the family and my father’s side are all Scots — so I reckon I’m pretty neutral here.
“To Welsh on a deal…” may be not quite so racist as it appears. One explanation of its origin is that it was ENGLISH bookies who, having too many long shot winners against them, fled over the border to Wales to become the original welshers and escape irate bettors looking for their payoff.
You’re always neutral Gavin. You can be absolutely relied on never to take a stand on anything, unless the military is involved.
And all we are saying is that the term is derogatory and racist, regardless of whether or not we could convince a court. Personally I don’t care, whilst I have been on the receiving end of a bit of racism because I’m from Wales, I consider myself a person first and foremost and don’t have much time for parochialism or patriotism (outside of cheering football/cricket teams…for fun)..
Anyway… I think the word ‘Welsh’ (which is an English word) means something like ‘foreigner’ or ‘alien’ or ‘scum’???
Its called keeping an open mind Bloods — you should try it some time, you may even learn something.
“And all we are saying is that the term is derogatory and racist..”
Perhaps it is Rob, to establish that we probably need to know exactly what its origins were — Angra’s explanation above if correct would tend to suggest it isn’t.
Personally I never use the term, having been taught that “welch” is the correct way when I was in school, thats the one I’ve always used — old habits and all that.
“Anyway… I think the word ‘Welsh’ (which is an English word) means something like ‘foreigner’ or ‘alien’ or ’scum’???”
Is that right ? I’ve never heard that one before — I guess back in the dim dark days, the English weren’t too keen on either of their northern neighbours, probably still not
Gavin, not that it matters all that terribly much, but I’m pretty sure RobJ pointed out above that “welch” is merely an archaic spelling of “Welsh”. So it doesn’t affect his point at all. Pay attention.
FWIW I always thought the word was ‘welched’, not welshed. It’s only been since Rudd Removal that I’ve actually seen the word in print. I never use the word either.
and
Who knows if Angra is right? Thing is I could make the same argument regarding the terms ‘Gyp’ (gypsy) or ‘Jew’, there’s no doubt in my mind that they’re derogatory so why isn’t ‘welch/welsh?
Anyway, damn you GavinM, I said I didn’t care but here I am debating it!!!
“I feel a complaint to the Press Council coming on…”
I feel the Press Council politely getting back to you and suggesting you start by writing a letter to the offending publication and outlining your complaint.
I’m sure The Australian would be happy to add the use of Welsh/welch/welsh to their style book if you lay out a calm and reasoned argument as to how some uses of the word could be deemed offensive.
I think the last work on racism against the Welsh should go to the excellent Rob Bryden –
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNJStquFEGk
“So it doesn’t affect his point at all. Pay attention.”
I suggest you pay attention Bloods — I haven’t disputed Rob’s point…I said the paper is using ‘welsh’ in the correct manner according to the dictionary, therefore I doubt that a racism claim would be upheld against it. Comprehension really isn’t your strength is it.
Rob,
” ‘Gyp’ (gypsy) or ‘Jew’, there’s no doubt in my mind that they’re derogatory so why isn’t ‘welch/welsh?”
I agree, although I think they are more slang than correct English, I don’t know — are they in the dictionary as used in the manner you’re suggesting and are they used in mainstream language as commonly as ‘welsh/welshed’ ?
“Anyway, damn you GavinM, I said I didn’t care but here I am debating it!!! ”
Lol — I’m with you Rob, the English language is certainly full of vagaries
Welsh derives from Old English Wælisc (Foreign) from Wealh, meaning a Celt, or a Romanised Celt. The same root is in Cornwall, Walloon, and Wallachia, and the name Wallace derives from it. (The famous William Wallace was named because he was a lowlander, from the border country between Wales and Scotland: William the Welsh.)
It is a xenonym: the English, and later Norman, word for the Welsh, not the native word for themselves; which is, of course, Cymru for the country, Cymry for the people, and Cymraeg for the language.
Personally, I think if there is a distinction in mind (or the connection never made) between ‘Welsh’ and ‘to welch’, then it’s not insulting; but if a Welshman points out the etymology and asks that you refrain from using the term, it is at the least a matter of simple courtesy to do so.
Um, Catsidhe.
I don’t think anyone was worried in the least how the Welsh got their name. But cheers for all that googling.
More on the Breitbart / Sherrod fiasco:
Whitehouse apologises:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/07/21/gibbs-apologizes-to-shirl_n_654623.html
Pedro @47 This one’s for you.
Actually, it was a bit more than just a blog. Fox, in particular, had given it air coverage and it had been repeated in other press outlets. But you’re right – they reacted far too quickly on too little information.
By the secretary of agriculture, actually. But he does work for one of the branches of government, so you do get that one. Just don’t try claiming The Queen fired her, or God, or the Whitehouse.
They were played without their introduction and without what followed, and somebody tacked on an intro that that claimed the video proved that she misused her official government position as overseer of 1.2 billion p/a – which had nothing to do with what she was talking about.
Don’t you think it says anything about the people who created and propagated the video, then provided talking heads to ambush-interview NAACP members and talk it up as an issue? Nothing at all?
We’re agree on the fact that somebody reacted far too quickly. The current US administration has become quite sensitive to press stand-over tactics (whereas the last one didn’t seem to give a toot about what any temporal entities said). But you don’t seem to be willing to accept that the other side might have done some wrong. You don’t think Fox or Breitbart owe her an apology?
Unfortunately there are many words and phrases of apparently racist origin which are embedded in English. Maybe fighting against them is like pushing water uphill, as it seems to be at the heart of how a language develops and evolves.
eg.
- Police vans are still called ‘paddy wagons’
- Americans refer to a twist on spin on a ball as ‘english’ (maybe because the English – couldn’t be trusted to hit the ball straight)
- a ‘welsh mortgage’ is one that can’t be proved in law
- ‘working like a black’ – very offensive but found in much old literature.
- “That’s very white of you” see Dirty Harry
- and of course the ‘N’ word found in Kipling, Conrad etc and much modern rap music where it seems to have evolved into a form of ironic self-reference
- my back is giving me ‘gyp’ (from gypsies)
Interestingly we seem to accept that people of the group, orientation or race referred to are free to use such a derogatory term themselves without offence. Mel Brooks once said to a TV interviewer who told a joke “don’t try and be funnier than the Jew!”
I think its safe to say that if people of a particular group are offended by a word, then give them the benefit of the doubt and don’t use it!
It’s a bit sad that once innocent and perfectly normal words have been (mis)appropriated for political reasons. When was the last time you bought a Streets ‘Gaytime’ icecream without a snigger?
Matt.
I’ll concede that Breitbart also owes an apology…. but why Fox??? Especially when you openly admit that “other press outlets” also ran with the video. This has nothing to do with Fox News. Nothing.
I can’t claim the White House fired her? Tell me that next time anyone says “BP” is to blame for the oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico, rather than name the precise employee of BP who is to blame.
When the Secretary of Agriculture holds a press conference, apologises to Sherrod, concedes he was wrong, offers Sherrod her job back and does this all with a great big picture of THE WHITE HOUSE in the background..
And when Robert Gibbs, Obama’s official mouthpiece, stands up and reiterates that there were major screw-ups and does this with a great big picture of THE WHITE HOUSE in the background then…
Yep. The buffoon who lives in that White House is obviously and ultimately to blame.
Absolutely disgusting what has happened in this sherrod affair. Rachel Maddow laid into fox news. Brilliant. I’m waiting for pedro to concoct some justification for this behaviour by her “side” of potlics.
I though Sherrod was offered a different job? Not her old job??
Actually, what annoys me about the sudden popularity in the commentariat for this term “welshed” or “welshing” is that they are privately thinking themselves very clever for using in relation to Gillard. “Hey, she’s Welsh originally, so if we call her a “welsher” that’ll really hit the spot” etc etc.
To be fair, it has cropped up in The Age, but it seems to be most popular in The Australian, with everyone from Shanahan down throwing it in, as if it proves something. There’s absolutely no evidence that she really had any choice but to depose Rudd: he was on the nose with everyone, and a very damaging spill was certain to happen, and she was the contender, whether she liked it or not. The rest is now history, but that won’t stop Shanahan and his ilk from trying to utilise it and use the insulting term “welsh” to label Gillard and score points.
Pedro @81
I think you’re reaching a bit. The sec ag has already made it known that he didn’t consult with the president before making his decision – that he was acting on a USDA “zero tolerance” policy w.r.t. racism.
Pedro, the question was briefly raised, and as I do onomastics as a hobby, and speak some Old English, I figured I may as well answer the question.
But cheers for the condescension.
Catsidhe, I appreciate your efforts and if I were you I wouldn’t concern yourself with the rantings of the troll (I’m sure you don’t). Pedro is just trying to get a response, she has no interest in debate this is apparent from her recent effort where she claimed in a trollish post that PP blame everything on a handful of people, she was promptly rebutted and didn’t even bother to respond to one person who rebutted her post. A typical troll.
With regard to the Welch/Welsh issue I just want to reiterate that personally I take no offence but yes people are making the point that if others are offended by it then maybe we shouldn’t use it.
Got me again Gavin. I don’t know why I keep trying. I feel like such a vagary.
I don’t know anybody who actually uses the word welched/welshed in conversation, so I don’t know why the Oz has latched onto it all of a sudden. In conversation I tend to use cop out, but in writing use renege.
And +1 for Rob @ 88. Just ignore pedro.
Hi confessions,
I rarely hear it used either — I reckon most people say renege/reneged these days.
As to the Oz latching onto it all of a sudden, I believe monkeywrench might be on the right track at #84.
Thanks Gavin. I didn’t see that post because I thought it was one of pedro’s and scrolled on by. Yes, I think he’s right, the Oz think they are being oh so clever in linking to Gillard’s Welsh origins.
Sorry monkeywrench! Maybe you should change your gravatar?