It’s that time of the week when we kick off a fresh thread, but with the nation in election mode we’ll be doing a few things differently here. This is our regular open thread — use it to talk about anything you like that is not connected to the federal election campaign. We’ll be moving forward with some extra threads to let everyone give their links and comments about what’s going on with the election campaigning and coverage. As always, the latest threads will have links in the sidebar to the right.
NB: To make sure readers know what’s going on, I have bumped this post to the top of the page for today — the other threads I mentioned are below, and all threads will be in the sidebar.
Let’s kick off with some climate news, which was mentioned by monkeywrench in the weekend thread. The US National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) has released its “State of the Climate” report for June 2010:
For me, the key points in the report are these:
June 2010 was the fourth consecutive warmest month on record (March, April, and May 2010 were also the warmest on record). This was the 304th consecutive month with a global temperature above the 20th century average. The last month with below-average temperature was February 1985.
If that doesn’t count as evidence of a clear (and alarming) long-term trend, I don’t know what does.
Have at it.
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He’s from The International Organization for Migration:
http://www.iom.int/jahia/jsp/index.jsp
It’s a legitimate NGO, and it’s been around for a while. The problem with that article on ACA (which you can see the video for on their web site) is that it doesn’t TELL us anything. It’s got a couple of grabs with the representative for credibility, but nothing comes from the horse’s mouth. What we get instead is ACA’s scary-music version and many times more footage of people being asked set-up questions. Nobody watching that segment is even slightly informed as to what IOM’s proposal is, and I’m damned if I’m believing ACA’s take on it.
And you’re right, it’s nothing official. Nobody is endorsing it, whatever it is.
And I must say – I’m shocked to see such a natural synergy between MTR and ACA. That must be so proud of their accomplishment.
I particularly liked Steve Price’s comment about attracting the right kind of refugees. That was beautiful.
Actually, Angra, I wonder …. was that spot an ad for MTR?
Every climate “sceptic” should read this.
It’s fairly devestating to your collapsing cause.
re. IOM and the ACA fluff, how can you repatriate a refugee anyway? Isn’t the whole point of recognising people as refugees is that they are fleeing persecution in their home country? Let’s repatriate the Dalai Lama to Tibet.
Excellent. If Labor did a lot more of this, they’d deflate the Greens at source. This new solar scheme will have two great benefits: the closure of Hazelwood power station, and the intense annoyance of Andrew Bolt. It’s worth it for the latter alone.
Steve Fielding tries for some cheap stunts at the expense of our troops in Afghanistan. The man is such an embarrassment.
Then stay there, and don’t come back. It’s not as if Australia will be the poorer for your absence.
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/steve-fielding-mia-in-afghanistan-20100721-10l65.html?autostart=1
There is an excellent piece of good investigative journalism underway into the lobbying and promotion of asbestos products to developing countries. Called “Dangers in the Dust:Inside the Global Asbestos Trade” it is a joint investigation by the International Consortium of Investigative Journalists and the BBC.
Too long and complex to quote, but the upshot is the major asbestos producers are lobbying hard and successfully to sell their products to developing countries where there is limited safety legislation. They have marshalled a bunch of tame scientists to ‘prove’ that good asbestos is harmless, even though they can’t market the products to countries like the US, UK and Australia where they are banned. Similar tactics are being used to the tobacco industry in the 70′s and 80s.
“An analysis by the International Consortium of Investigative Journalists has tracked nearly $100 million in public and private money spent by these groups since the mid-1980s in three countries alone — Canada, India and Brazil — to keep asbestos in commerce. Their strategy, critics say, is one borrowed from the tobacco industry: create doubt, contest litigation, and delay regulation. “It’s totally unethical,” says Jukka Takala, director of the European Agency for Safety and Health at Work and a former ILO official. “It’s almost criminal. Asbestos cannot be used safely. It is clearly a carcinogen. It kills people.”
Check it out. It’s worth a thread on it own…
http://www.publicintegrity.org/investigations/asbestos/articles/entry/2183/
If I see another “Welshed” headline……anyone else noticed this demeaning and racist term has suddenly acquired a new lease of life, especially in The Australian? I feel a complaint to the Press Council coming on…
Angra@57
Good luck in any crusade to get China, India, Brazil and Russia to stop mining and using asbestos — there may be some chance with Canada, but I can’t see the others being persuaded to stop any time soon.
Monkey@58
“Welsh” is, according to the dictionary, a legitimate term describing the act of going back on a promise or wager, so I suspect that any complaint of racism towards anyone using it won’t get far.
Having said that, when I was at school we were taught that the correct terminolgy is “welch” — so I suspect either pronunciation is correct.
” a legitimate term” Gavin? Is there some genetic predisposition that causes Welsh people to renege on agreements? Or is this just one of those English insults that have crept into the language and now seem “legitimate” through usage?
““Welsh” is, according to the dictionary, a legitimate term describing the act of going back on a promise or wager, so I suspect that any complaint of racism towards anyone using it won’t get far”
Riiight, so I can say someone ‘jewed’ me If I get ripped off? As far as I’m concerned ‘Welshed’ is a derogatory term, the dictionary is not the arbiter of what is and isn’t derogatory.
having ranted about that I understand that in different places terms might not seem derogatory (bear in mind that monkeywrench and I are Welsh, or rather we’re from Wales). Try and raise a banner saying ‘Go pakis’ at Edgbaston.
Just a variation…
welch [wɛlʃ]
vb
(Group Games / Gambling, except Cards) a variant spelling of welsh
welcher n
Welch [wɛlʃ]
adj
(Linguistics / Languages) (Social Science / Peoples) (Placename) an archaic spelling of Welsh1
Collins English Dictionary – Complete and Unabridged © HarperCollins Publishers 1991, 1994, 1998, 2000, 2003
I noticed monkeywrench, I raised it with my colleagues, they didn’t agree, accept for one, who said but “you’re just a Welsh C***”….With friends like that
All I’m saying MW and Rob, is that the term is being correctly used by The Australian in terms of its definition in the dictionary, therefore I suspect its highly unlikely that any charge of racism levelled against the paper for using it would be upheld.
Please feel free to prove me wrong by winning such a case against them in court.
For the record, I have Welsh and Scots on my mother’s side of the family and my father’s side are all Scots — so I reckon I’m pretty neutral here.
“To Welsh on a deal…” may be not quite so racist as it appears. One explanation of its origin is that it was ENGLISH bookies who, having too many long shot winners against them, fled over the border to Wales to become the original welshers and escape irate bettors looking for their payoff.
You’re always neutral Gavin. You can be absolutely relied on never to take a stand on anything, unless the military is involved.
And all we are saying is that the term is derogatory and racist, regardless of whether or not we could convince a court. Personally I don’t care, whilst I have been on the receiving end of a bit of racism because I’m from Wales, I consider myself a person first and foremost and don’t have much time for parochialism or patriotism (outside of cheering football/cricket teams…for fun)..
Anyway… I think the word ‘Welsh’ (which is an English word) means something like ‘foreigner’ or ‘alien’ or ‘scum’???
Its called keeping an open mind Bloods — you should try it some time, you may even learn something.
“And all we are saying is that the term is derogatory and racist..”
Perhaps it is Rob, to establish that we probably need to know exactly what its origins were — Angra’s explanation above if correct would tend to suggest it isn’t.
Personally I never use the term, having been taught that “welch” is the correct way when I was in school, thats the one I’ve always used — old habits and all that.
“Anyway… I think the word ‘Welsh’ (which is an English word) means something like ‘foreigner’ or ‘alien’ or ’scum’???”
Is that right ? I’ve never heard that one before — I guess back in the dim dark days, the English weren’t too keen on either of their northern neighbours, probably still not
Gavin, not that it matters all that terribly much, but I’m pretty sure RobJ pointed out above that “welch” is merely an archaic spelling of “Welsh”. So it doesn’t affect his point at all. Pay attention.
FWIW I always thought the word was ‘welched’, not welshed. It’s only been since Rudd Removal that I’ve actually seen the word in print. I never use the word either.
and
Who knows if Angra is right? Thing is I could make the same argument regarding the terms ‘Gyp’ (gypsy) or ‘Jew’, there’s no doubt in my mind that they’re derogatory so why isn’t ‘welch/welsh?
Anyway, damn you GavinM, I said I didn’t care but here I am debating it!!!
“I feel a complaint to the Press Council coming on…”
I feel the Press Council politely getting back to you and suggesting you start by writing a letter to the offending publication and outlining your complaint.
I’m sure The Australian would be happy to add the use of Welsh/welch/welsh to their style book if you lay out a calm and reasoned argument as to how some uses of the word could be deemed offensive.
I think the last work on racism against the Welsh should go to the excellent Rob Bryden –
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNJStquFEGk
“So it doesn’t affect his point at all. Pay attention.”
I suggest you pay attention Bloods — I haven’t disputed Rob’s point…I said the paper is using ‘welsh’ in the correct manner according to the dictionary, therefore I doubt that a racism claim would be upheld against it. Comprehension really isn’t your strength is it.
Rob,
” ‘Gyp’ (gypsy) or ‘Jew’, there’s no doubt in my mind that they’re derogatory so why isn’t ‘welch/welsh?”
I agree, although I think they are more slang than correct English, I don’t know — are they in the dictionary as used in the manner you’re suggesting and are they used in mainstream language as commonly as ‘welsh/welshed’ ?
“Anyway, damn you GavinM, I said I didn’t care but here I am debating it!!! ”
Lol — I’m with you Rob, the English language is certainly full of vagaries
Welsh derives from Old English Wælisc (Foreign) from Wealh, meaning a Celt, or a Romanised Celt. The same root is in Cornwall, Walloon, and Wallachia, and the name Wallace derives from it. (The famous William Wallace was named because he was a lowlander, from the border country between Wales and Scotland: William the Welsh.)
It is a xenonym: the English, and later Norman, word for the Welsh, not the native word for themselves; which is, of course, Cymru for the country, Cymry for the people, and Cymraeg for the language.
Personally, I think if there is a distinction in mind (or the connection never made) between ‘Welsh’ and ‘to welch’, then it’s not insulting; but if a Welshman points out the etymology and asks that you refrain from using the term, it is at the least a matter of simple courtesy to do so.
Um, Catsidhe.
I don’t think anyone was worried in the least how the Welsh got their name. But cheers for all that googling.
More on the Breitbart / Sherrod fiasco:
Whitehouse apologises:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/07/21/gibbs-apologizes-to-shirl_n_654623.html
Pedro @47 This one’s for you.
Actually, it was a bit more than just a blog. Fox, in particular, had given it air coverage and it had been repeated in other press outlets. But you’re right – they reacted far too quickly on too little information.
By the secretary of agriculture, actually. But he does work for one of the branches of government, so you do get that one. Just don’t try claiming The Queen fired her, or God, or the Whitehouse.
They were played without their introduction and without what followed, and somebody tacked on an intro that that claimed the video proved that she misused her official government position as overseer of 1.2 billion p/a – which had nothing to do with what she was talking about.
Don’t you think it says anything about the people who created and propagated the video, then provided talking heads to ambush-interview NAACP members and talk it up as an issue? Nothing at all?
We’re agree on the fact that somebody reacted far too quickly. The current US administration has become quite sensitive to press stand-over tactics (whereas the last one didn’t seem to give a toot about what any temporal entities said). But you don’t seem to be willing to accept that the other side might have done some wrong. You don’t think Fox or Breitbart owe her an apology?
Unfortunately there are many words and phrases of apparently racist origin which are embedded in English. Maybe fighting against them is like pushing water uphill, as it seems to be at the heart of how a language develops and evolves.
eg.
- Police vans are still called ‘paddy wagons’
- Americans refer to a twist on spin on a ball as ‘english’ (maybe because the English – couldn’t be trusted to hit the ball straight)
- a ‘welsh mortgage’ is one that can’t be proved in law
- ‘working like a black’ – very offensive but found in much old literature.
- “That’s very white of you” see Dirty Harry
- and of course the ‘N’ word found in Kipling, Conrad etc and much modern rap music where it seems to have evolved into a form of ironic self-reference
- my back is giving me ‘gyp’ (from gypsies)
Interestingly we seem to accept that people of the group, orientation or race referred to are free to use such a derogatory term themselves without offence. Mel Brooks once said to a TV interviewer who told a joke “don’t try and be funnier than the Jew!”
I think its safe to say that if people of a particular group are offended by a word, then give them the benefit of the doubt and don’t use it!
It’s a bit sad that once innocent and perfectly normal words have been (mis)appropriated for political reasons. When was the last time you bought a Streets ‘Gaytime’ icecream without a snigger?
Matt.
I’ll concede that Breitbart also owes an apology…. but why Fox??? Especially when you openly admit that “other press outlets” also ran with the video. This has nothing to do with Fox News. Nothing.
I can’t claim the White House fired her? Tell me that next time anyone says “BP” is to blame for the oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico, rather than name the precise employee of BP who is to blame.
When the Secretary of Agriculture holds a press conference, apologises to Sherrod, concedes he was wrong, offers Sherrod her job back and does this all with a great big picture of THE WHITE HOUSE in the background..
And when Robert Gibbs, Obama’s official mouthpiece, stands up and reiterates that there were major screw-ups and does this with a great big picture of THE WHITE HOUSE in the background then…
Yep. The buffoon who lives in that White House is obviously and ultimately to blame.
Absolutely disgusting what has happened in this sherrod affair. Rachel Maddow laid into fox news. Brilliant. I’m waiting for pedro to concoct some justification for this behaviour by her “side” of potlics.
I though Sherrod was offered a different job? Not her old job??
Actually, what annoys me about the sudden popularity in the commentariat for this term “welshed” or “welshing” is that they are privately thinking themselves very clever for using in relation to Gillard. “Hey, she’s Welsh originally, so if we call her a “welsher” that’ll really hit the spot” etc etc.
To be fair, it has cropped up in The Age, but it seems to be most popular in The Australian, with everyone from Shanahan down throwing it in, as if it proves something. There’s absolutely no evidence that she really had any choice but to depose Rudd: he was on the nose with everyone, and a very damaging spill was certain to happen, and she was the contender, whether she liked it or not. The rest is now history, but that won’t stop Shanahan and his ilk from trying to utilise it and use the insulting term “welsh” to label Gillard and score points.
Pedro @81
I think you’re reaching a bit. The sec ag has already made it known that he didn’t consult with the president before making his decision – that he was acting on a USDA “zero tolerance” policy w.r.t. racism.
Pedro, the question was briefly raised, and as I do onomastics as a hobby, and speak some Old English, I figured I may as well answer the question.
But cheers for the condescension.
Catsidhe, I appreciate your efforts and if I were you I wouldn’t concern yourself with the rantings of the troll (I’m sure you don’t). Pedro is just trying to get a response, she has no interest in debate this is apparent from her recent effort where she claimed in a trollish post that PP blame everything on a handful of people, she was promptly rebutted and didn’t even bother to respond to one person who rebutted her post. A typical troll.
With regard to the Welch/Welsh issue I just want to reiterate that personally I take no offence but yes people are making the point that if others are offended by it then maybe we shouldn’t use it.
Got me again Gavin. I don’t know why I keep trying. I feel like such a vagary.
I don’t know anybody who actually uses the word welched/welshed in conversation, so I don’t know why the Oz has latched onto it all of a sudden. In conversation I tend to use cop out, but in writing use renege.
And +1 for Rob @ 88. Just ignore pedro.
Hi confessions,
I rarely hear it used either — I reckon most people say renege/reneged these days.
As to the Oz latching onto it all of a sudden, I believe monkeywrench might be on the right track at #84.
Thanks Gavin. I didn’t see that post because I thought it was one of pedro’s and scrolled on by. Yes, I think he’s right, the Oz think they are being oh so clever in linking to Gillard’s Welsh origins.
Sorry monkeywrench! Maybe you should change your gravatar?
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