An Osama Bin Laden Is Dead cheer-off
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(UPDATES after the jump.)
As we all know subconsciously, when a bad person does a bad thing, or when a bad thing happens to a bad person, the more extreme your public expressions of fury (in the case of the former) or joy (in the case of the latter), the better a person you are. You have positioned yourself far from the bad person, as far as you possibly could, and therefore must be – by virtue of your hatred of the bad person alone – admirably good.
So when a really evil person is killed, if you want to gain some quick credibility points, if you want to stand out from the crowd, you’re going to have to do more than just cheer: you’re going to have to gloat with style:
Seen better? Those are the most over-the-top front pages I’ve found, but I suspect there’ll be even more provocative headlines to be found within newspapers, on the polemicists’ pages – even here in Australia.
ELSEWHERE: Apparently not cutting quickly enough to a news conference long before it’s actually started is also reason to doubt a news organisation’s credibility. If the ABC was full of good people and therefore really hated Osama Bin Laden, they’d have interrupted all their programming on their non-news channels to speculate feverishly on what was going to be announced, rather than waiting till it was announced. (I did have ABC News 24 on, and I was fairly sure they were talking about the Obama conference long before it actually happened – but, still, I always take at face value everything News Ltd says about the ABC, and if they say they didn’t, then I must be remembering things wrong.)
ELSEWHERE #2: Any journalists called the Prime Minister (who supposedly opposes the death penalty) on suddenly “celebrating” the killing of a self-admitted terrorist? Or would that be a bit too brave at this point?
UPDATE: Seen any quotes attributed to Martin Luther King, Jr today? Like this one?
“I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy.”
Well said, whoever came up with that quote before someone decided to pretend it was by Martin Luther King, Jr, which it wasn’t.
UPDATE #2: Nobody could accuse the Herald Sun of being modest:
(Via Flashboard Wars.)
UPDATE #3: The Daily Telegraph thinks there will be no more “evil”:
While the Gold Coast Bulletin thinks it’s much better that it took a decade, than if they’d been able to apprehend him earlier:
And how rude of them to describe it as “revenge”. Didn’t they get the memo that the word we’re supposed to use is “justice”?
UPDATE #4: For a supposed journalist, Andrew Bolt seems disturbingly unconcerned with whether a claim is “true or not”:
Seriously? It doesn’t make a difference to you either way?
I think you can be opposed to the death penalty and not be opposed to killing in wartime.
Timmy at his Daily Telegraph news.com blog can’t seem to get enough of it all. His latest post features a snuff animation of OBL being shot to smithereens by marines, who then proceed to piss on his blood-spattered corpse. Then follows a fantasy scene of OBL getting his martyr’s reward of 72 virgins — virgin pigs, that is, who proceed to have their way with him.
Can the Southbank Jester top that? Perhaps he might post the video as a “not endorsing, just passing it on” service to his readers.
“I think you can be opposed to the death penalty and not be opposed to killing in wartime.”
I think a large part of the problem has been giving the nutcases what they want – the credibility of being the other side in a “war” – rather than treating them as the pathetic murderous criminals they are, capturing them, charging them with their crimes and then, after a fair trial – proving that we, unlike them, actually do believe in the rule of law – imprisoning them for the rest of their lives. Hard to sell a lifetime of miserably sitting in a cell block with rapists and paedophiles as “heroic martyrdom” to impressionable youth.
@ #2 What is with the Right and bestiality?
Try these:
http://www.theonion.com/articles/osama-bin-laden-death-of-a-mother-fucker,20293/
http://www.theonion.com/articles/violent-death-of-human-being-terrific-news-for-onc,20294/
http://www.theonion.com/articles/osama-bin-laden-killed-while-sitting-on-toilet-nat,20302/
Lets all cheer, the goodies have executed a baddie and they didn’t even have to waste money on a trial or burial. Whoo-hoo, now THAT’S the way justice should be served.
The whole thing stinks of convenience to me. It conveniently only used a handful of crack troops, conveniently no american’s were killed or injured, conveniently it turns Obama into a hero, conveniently Osama was shot neatly in the head, conveniently his body was buried at sea, conveniently there were no photos and his body was in no way desecrated.
Smell a rat? It smells to me at least.
Jeremy – This is not a simple issue. Many countries have targeted enemy leaders in time of war. Al Qaida declared war on the West. So wasn’t OBL a legitimate target?
Germany made attempts on Churchill, the UK made attempts on Hitler and other Nazi leaders – and succeeded with Heydrich. And Australia helped in the effort to kill Yamamoto.
Among the absurdities:
*Cheering the death like you’ve just won the World Series. Sure, they cheer deaths in other countries, but I’d like to think we’re better than that. It’s a time for sombre reflection, not jubilation. Street parties are not the way to respect al-Qaeda’s victims or to battle extremism.
*Celebrating the death like it means the end of the War on Terror. Many historical figures have killed a Mahdi (an Islamic holy warrior) and found that it’s like cutting the head off a hydra …. another head quickly grows to take its place.
*The notion that Barack Obama has just sealed his election victory in 2012 with this triumph. I’m not saying the notion is wrong, but how stupid is the electorate if Obama’s popularity soars just because he authorised the strike that happened to kill Bin Laden? Probably as stupid as the electorate that boosted GWB’s popularity because he launched a pre-emptive war on Iraq.
*The victims’ families as moral authorities. Predictably the media heads directly for such familes — or anyone related to al-Qaeda atrocities — to find out if they’ve “got closure”. Because revenge apparently is sacred to the righteous. Which only brings to mind Seneca: “Revenge is an inhuman word.”
twobob said “Smell a rat? It smells to me at least.”
Gosh. I’m surprised that you’ve joined the conspiracy theorists twobob.
As soon as I heard that the carcass had been tipped out of a helicopter into the ocean I knew that the Birthers would seamlessly transfer their nuttiness to OBL conspiracies. In fact I heard a synthesis of both of them this morning. My understanding is that the current nutosphere theory is that Obama was under such pressure from Donald Trump regarding his birth certificate that he needed a circuit breaker – so he manufactured this.
Really, really, really dumb.
I’m glad he’s dead. I hope this represents a major psychological turning point for the US and its allies, and that we can now move on from that decade of a ‘war on terror’.
Twobob,
“Lets all cheer, the goodies have executed a baddie and they didn’t even have to waste money on a trial or burial.’
I wonder how much this operation would’ve cost — I suspect it would be a fair bit more than a trial and burial.
“The whole thing stinks of convenience to me. It conveniently only used a handful of crack troops..”
What would you expect them to use — storm in there with the entire 82nd Airborne perhaps ?
“conveniently no american’s were killed or injured..”
Convenience or very good planning, execution and use of the element of surprise ?
“conveniently it turns Obama into a hero”
Well, he happens to be the President at the minute, if it had happened a couple of years earlier it would’ve been GWB, a couple of years later — who knows ?
“conveniently Osama was shot neatly in the head”
Special Ops troops are routinely trained in marksmanship, no great surprise that a head shot was taken.
“conveniently his body was buried at sea”
Wise move — no grave site and no corpse for his lunatic followers to turn into a shrine.
“conveniently there were no photos”
Do you really want to see photos of Bin Laden’s body — sounds a bit ghoulish to me, head shot victims aren’t a pretty sight – I hope you have a strong stomach.
“his body was in no way desecrated”
Why should his body be desecrated ?
Jeremy,
I’ll ask you the same question I just asked SHV on the open thread — how would you go about arresting a bloke who had refused to surrender and was shooting at you with an automatic rifle ?
I’m not impressed by the gloating over his death either, but on the other hand I can understand why the Americans in particular will be, 9/11 is a deep emotional scar on the US psyche and I reckon its a natural human reaction for them to be happy to see the man responsible for it dead.
I’ve not joined any conspiracy theory dendy, I will wait a while and see what time turns up before I do that, but at this initial stage it all seems a tad too convenient.
In reality I have been very dubious about so called ‘verified’ OBL video releases for quite a while and have suspected him as being dead for years now. Those suspicions and the whole convenience of the deed are reason enough for me to have suspicions and what would be dumb, really, really, dumb would be for me to blithely accept what the US ( or any other state dept.) tells me at face value, without considering it in the light of other knowledge. I have not done it for years and have no intention of starting now.
It’s a war. They took out an enemy general. I’m not out cheering in the streets, but I’m certainly not going to shed a tear that they killed him. Putting him in prison would be manna from heaven for future terrorists taking hostages to try to leverage his release. Dead and dumped in the ocean doesn’t leave a grave to become a holy shrine.
And as far as the conspiracy theories go, they don’t pass the bullshit test. I cannot believe Obama would so stupid as to risk *everything* on a made-up story that would be pretty easy to refute…by Osama bin Laden popping up in Kandahar in a Santa suit, for example…
Hi confessions,
I’ve put up an attempt at an answer to your question on the open thread, but the moderators are playing with me today
How about those Blues
“Smell a rat?”
I don’t. I can see why they might be hesitant to release photos. They can’t win. It might satisfy western conspiracy theorists (although, given the insanity of the birther movement since the full certificate was released, I’m not sure anything will convince the hard-core) but it will also give the other guys a lovely set of images to produce limited-edition commemorative crockery for handing out to new recruits. God forbid actually holding a funeral. Geeze – it’d be too dangerous for anyone to attend the thing. I suspect they’re taking a “wait and see” approach to releasing evidence. I.e. wait and see whether anyone tries to deny it.
As for this thread – it goes without saying that any less-than-glowing observation on even the most grotesque or unhinged celebratory coverage or events can surely only be an indication that everyone here hates freedom, kicks puppies and … might even vote for the greens.
I thought the Telegraph took the cake today with their front page screaming ‘EVIL DEAD’
which is not only silly, but the movie connection to a (great) B-Movie cheapens the whole thing…then again, it IS the Tele, they dont so much report news as wipe their arses on it daily.
As much as I want to agree with you Confessions and hope you’re right, I have an uncomfortable feeling that the rest of the world, outside the US, may be an increased target from a reprisal. If not soon, over a longer period.
I’m glad he’s dead too, but all this triumphalism is unwise. It’s a time to reflect on ALL the dead, their suffering and sacrifice…I wish Obama had said that.
On the flipside, with their economy in the ditch and so much bad news for a decade, it’s difficult to blame the US for dancing on his grave.
From today’s SMH letters page …
http://www.smh.com.au/national/letters/so-much-for-ofarrells-vow-of-independence-20110502-1e4zv.html
I guess I should apologize now for ‘sharing’ this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiDyrkU0WAQ&feature=player_embedded
Not an entirely different standard of news to what the Tele serves up, just animated better by 16yr olds
SITUATION VACANT: Symbolic Evil Genius figure to urgently fill recently vacated position. Must be capable of elliciting fear and loathing on global scale, but actual global reach not essential. Exotic evilness and weird messianic pretensions highly regarded. Demonstrated ability to inspire fanatical allegiance via new media an advantage. Work from the comfort of your luxury compound. Apply (details provided)
No conspiracy, and I’m sure Special Forces did what needed to be done, and handled it as they should (although ‘wartime’ footing is dubious in this instance, given the politics around the Guantanamo prisoners there is no way the U.S. could have brought bin Laden to trial, and besides, they do have the death penalty). As for myself, I am reminded of Kilgore Trout – “So it goes”, but I also think the words of Martin Luther King, Jr are completely appropriate to this moment:
I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that”
~ Martin Luther King, Jr.
@20
Julian Assange ?
I had assumed the question was rhetorical, but now that you ask…
They could have done something like they did when the captured Manuel Noriega (he had a hell of a lot more firepower than an AK-47 and they managed to take him alive):
“OPERATION JUST CAUSE”
“…Later that morning, at about 1100, the 82nd Airborne Division assumed operational control of 1st Battalion, 75th Ranger Regiment and began operations out of Torrijos/Tocumen. Likewise, Company C, 3rd Battalion was put under the operational control of TF BAYONET to clear La Comandancia at 1500 on 20 December. The Ranger s extensive training in airfield seizure and building clearing, along with their detailed mission plan, were key factors in their successful seizure of the Torrijos/Tocumen complex with minimal collateral damage and casualties….”
He eventually surrendered on 3 January 1990.
@ 21, not so fast — JA is still at the helm, albeit at someone else’s luxury compound. Notwithstanding some influential US wingnuts have labelled him a ‘Terrist’, I expect a Special Operations hit on English soil would be stretching an alliance somewhat.
Yes, a president who has just weathered an onslaught of ongoing questions about his legitimacy (fanned by outright racism) would raise the gambling stakes by faking the death of the world’s #1 terrorist, knowing full well, and as George Dubya with his WMD’s in Iraq and other president’s have discovered, complete fictions are ultimately akmost always outed..
Seems to me like one gamble too many and doubting in this instance is more delusional than cynical.
Have to say I’m convinced by the veracity of the operation, especially having read how it was all Obama’s call.
“The first idea was to bomb the house using B2 stealth bombers dropping 2,000-pound JDAMs (joint direct attack munitions), according to ABC News. But Barack Obama rejected it, saying he wanted definitive proof that the Saudi was inside. “The helicopter raid was riskier,” said one US official. “[But] he didn’t just want to leave a pile of rubble.”
I’ll hazard a guess that the pictures and verifiable DNA evidence will eventually come out. But it sounds like Obama had all this conspiracy-crap worked out from the start….otherwise why wouldn’t he have just dropped a few hundred tons of fireworks on him?
I think Obama has just shut a few Tea-Party mouths good and proper.
Jesus SHV, the stupid just grows….
Lets see if you can tell the difference between the 2 operations.
Norriega was the ruler of Panama, he had never sworn to die for any religious or political cause nor had he launched terrorist attacks in or upon other nations — to get him there was a full-on invasion of the country, Norriega himself didn’t get involved in combat and he didn’t use his wife as a human shield, once his army dissolved he took refuge in the Vatican mission.
http://www.centipedia.com/articles/Operation_Just_Cause
Bin Laden was holed up in a fortified compound in a sovereign nation not his own, he had sworn to die for the Islamic Jihad and he had masterminded and financed terrorist attacks in numerous countries — to get him a 24 man special ops team was dropped into the compound, Bin Laden used his wife as a human shield, fired on the US troops, and was subsequently killed.
Yep, anyone can see that these 2 situations are exactly the same.
Just for your information, a hell of a lot more people died in Just Cause than died in the operation to get Bin Laden — perhaps that would’ve made you happier.
Hello Jack @24,
They’ll have to wait until JA sets up his secret base in a neutral country, or perhaps in international waters, James Bond super villain style then
Your logic is screwy, but your projection is working just fine.
Just explaining to you (aren’t you supposed to have some experience in things military?) that if you want to catch a “bad” guy alive it can be done and has been done in the past.
Now, some people might think that if he was “the most wanted man” in the world you could try to catch him alive.
You’ve got enough straw up there to start a feed-lot, but the basic point is: “Could he have been captured alive? Noriega was, so it seems it can be done.”
SHV,
Please no more, you really are embarrassing yourself.
Norriega wasn’t armed and shooting at American soldiers, he was hiding in the Vatican Embassy and surrendered himself from there.
Bin Laden had 10 years in which to surrender himself, he chose instead to go down fighting, well, hiding behind his wife and shooting at any rate — so be it.
As I said on the other thread — it was a kill or capture mission, that means the objective is capture unless the target makes it impossible to do so, i.e by refusing to surrender and continuing to shoot at those trying to catch him.
Using Bolt’s logic, we could accuse the entire Roman Catholic Church of being nothing but an organization of child rapists…because it’s useful propaganda!
Gavin, they had their chance with the underground lair in Sweden. An underground lair presents certain practical problems for helicopter gunships, but spraying the Suspended Conference Room with automatic fire would have made a terrific animation for Timmy’s readers (who I’m sure will creatively focus-group a suitable animal to posthumously violate JA).
“The trouble with quotes on the Internet is that one can never know if they are genuine.”
-Abraham Lincoln
The SMH is embarrassing itself and everyone with “Osama’s death: what the stars said” rehashing various twitterisms from several Hollywood druggies, and even worse “Osama ruins Oprah’s Obama exclusive.”
“While the likes of Lindsay Lohan, Katy Perry and Charlie Sheen rejoiced with national pride, Winfrey was decidedly less jubilant.
An hour after Barack Obama’s late-night address, the television host glumly tweeted fears bin Laden had posthumously stolen her thunder.
She said the Al-Qaeda chief’s death may have “dated” an interview recorded with the President and his wife, Michelle, a few days earlier.”
My God. Are there any real journos left at Fairfax? Or have they all pissed off to News Very Limited or to various porno mags where presumably where they came from and more truly belong?
I’ve never seen such utter crap in the SMH.
Hah, I’d forgotten about that lair in Sweden Jack — yes that would have been perfect.
Perhaps they could’ve got a team of ninjas to abseil down into it a la ‘You only Live Twice’ ?
My Dad’s a US resident who’s two teabags short of full-on birtherism in terms of his fanatical devotion to the Right. This morning even he posted praise for Obama’s handling of the operation. Hmm, he’s deleted it now, I should have gotten a screen grab for posterity…
My guess is that with the release of the long-form birth certificate and now Bin Laden’s dead, the conspiracy-addled lunatics will come up with an elaborate forged birth cetificate/Obama faked the Osama killing uberconspiracy in order to stay sane.
The problem with much reporting of this incident is that it is assumed that the US were intent on killing bin Laden, this is most unlikely and I would suggest there best case was taking him alive and when that became impossible they did what troops do. Chances are it would have been impossible to take him alive anyway.
There are plenty of examples of terrorists and even criminals who met there end in similar fashion so we shouldn’t read too much into the circumstances of this death.
Timmy seems to think the contrasting Age/Hun flashboards are an indication of “sides” taken by the respective publishers.
Pragmatism, or mission statement?
All in one news cycle eh?
http://www.smh.com.au/technology/technology-news/osama-conspiracy-theorists-find-a-home-on-the-web-20110503-1e61d.html
and then
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0511/54132.html
What the F***ing H**l is the Boltard on about with this?
“What on earth is the ABC’s agenda?:
ABC TV did not immediately break into normal programming to report the death of Osama bin Laden. When it did accommodate the breaking news, the national broadcaster took al-Jazeera’s coverage instead of the BBC’s. ”
I thought AJ was supposed to be the child of one of the good guys, Emir of Qatar, Sheikh Hamad bin Khalifa, standing up against the evil Musilin fundies and the scourge of wicked leftist/greenie Islamic democracy??
Have I missed something?
Spot on Surly.
And supported by 2 US officials here
“Officially, it was a kill-or-capture mission, since the US does not kill unarmed people trying to surrender. But it was clear from the beginning that whoever was behind those walls had no intention of surrendering, two US officials said.”
http://au.news.yahoo.com/osama-bin-laden/a/-/article/9300618/a-phone-call-led-us-to-bin-laden-doorstep/
I reckon its going to be very interesting to see what happens with US/Pakistan security relations now, I just can’t believe that Bin Laden could have been living in a place like that in a military town without the knowledge of some high up government and security officials.
You keep suggesting they really wanted to capture this guy and killing him just was plan B.
So, as surly indicates, why don’t they say something, anything, to help support the suggestion that killing him was not plan A?
On another point (unrelated and not directed at you GM) where would they get the DNA to compare in order to get a confirmed match?
While I’m glad OBL is no longer at large, I don’t see his death as a good thing. Certainly if dead or at large are the only options,then his death would be preferable but I’d prefer that he’d been captured and taken to a neutral and secure venue for trial. He was not just a criminal but someone with knowledge of a substantial criminal network.
Most importantly, a trial would have given some of his victims — prominently Muslims — a chance to confront him before the world and deprive him of at least some of his standing. His death will ensure that useful information about his confederates will remain hidden and he will acquire a martyr status that he ill-deserves.
It’s not clear yet whether his death was unavoidable — a mere matter of exigency — but it never occurred to me that if he was truly at large and US forces came across him that they would let him live. His information on the period of the US-led resistance to the Soviet intervention in Afghanistan and the origins of Al Qaeda and the role of the ISI would have been most interesting.
It is interesting to see how the (as Pilger calls them) Cartoon Media portray the assassination, but it’s more frightening to see what many consider the ‘left media’ (MSM if you’re a freeper) justifying torture. http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=13512344
“The revelation that intelligence gleaned from the CIA’s so-called black sites helped kill bin Laden was seen as vindication for many intelligence officials who have been repeatedly investigated and criticized for their involvement in a program that involved the harshest interrogation methods in U.S. history.
“We got beat up for it, but those efforts led to this great day,” said Marty Martin, a retired CIA officer who for years led the hunt for bin Laden.”
Nothing in this ABC (America)/AP report contradicts or challenges this opinion.
“You keep suggesting they really wanted to capture this guy and killing him just was plan B.”
They have – this is the third time I’ve posted this
““Officially, it was a kill-or-capture mission, since the US does not kill unarmed people trying to surrender. But it was clear from the beginning that whoever was behind those walls had no intention of surrendering, two US officials said.”
I know the question was not directed at me, but I think members of his family are still in Saudi Arabia, if so they could have got the DNA sample from there I guess.
You poor fools. Osama is being flown to a safe house in Florida as we speak. He has agreed to shave his beard, take a job at the local 7-11 (with that accent he’ll fit right in nyuk nyuk nyuk), and change his name to “Randy”. He’s also agreed to join the Lion’s Club and help out at fundraising barbecues.
His neighbour is Saddam Hussein. Don’t you guys know ANYTHING?
‘On another point (unrelated and not directed at you GM) where would they get the DNA to compare in order to get a confirmed match?’
It’s a big family…c’mon think about itttttttttt
http://healthland.time.com/2011/05/02/its-a-match-how-officials-used-dna-to-identify-bin-laden/
The problem with much reporting of this incident is that it is assumed that the US were intent on killing bin Laden, this is most unlikely and I would suggest there best case was taking him alive and when that became impossible they did what troops do.
You don’t say why you think it was most unlikely that the US would be intent on killing bin Laden. Why wouldn’t they be intent on killing him? They probably knew the world would accept their word for it if they declared they’d killed him and tossed him into the ocean with little or no proof, and they’ve gotten themselves nothing but trouble when catching terrorists – what with having to find out what the law says about what they then must do with them, and then having insufficient backbone to do anything the howling mobs don’t approve of regardless of what the law says. They had everything to gain by killing him on the spot. They must have known that whatever story they told about ObL coming at them with a rifle and using a woman as a human shield would be accepted without question and that explaining why they simply had to kill him would therefore be very easy.
I can’t remember the last time even a skerric of credulity was applied to the official US government version of events in any recent war-related matter, and that’s despite the US government’s proven propensity to tell massive porkies about those matters – from the Jessica Lynch tale right through to the WMDs.
Nine has just admitted that the photo of Bin Laden shown widely on the media last night apparently shot in the head, was a fake. Its’ been removed from all the usual suspects web sites (including AB’s) with no comment.
Funny how gullible some people are and how stupid sub-editors must be.
Crikey – you showed the photo too. Any explanations?