Comments on: Emissions Trading Scheme Announcement Live Blog

By: Jonathan Maddox

Jonathan Maddox — Wed, 17 Dec 2008 01:10:58 +0000

Hi Michael,

Not sure if you’ll see this (it is a bit late), but here are a couple of answers.

Coal mining produces carbon emissions in its own right, through leakage of gases from mines (”fugitive emissions”) and obviously from its use of diesel fuel, not to mention electricity. It’s certainly necessary for these activities to carry a carbon price.

And I discovered reading the fine print that the compensation for coal-fired electricity generators in terms of free permits is *not* being provided to all generators, nor is it ongoing — it is a one-off allowance, in lieu of “moral hazard”, which will run out. Somewhat perversely, it is being provided only to the operators of the dirtiest brown-coal power stations, to keep them commercially viable for a while as their owners (or other investors) work out the cheapest way to clean them up or replace them when (and if) the price of their emissions renders them uneconomical to run unmodified.

By: Venise Alstergren

Venise Alstergren — Tue, 16 Dec 2008 06:44:52 +0000

Obviously my brain has been out to breakfast, lunch and dinner since Kevin Rudd made all those caring comments about his government being prepared to tackle the problem of Climate Change (this was, of course, before they were elected).
Under all the chicanery of today’s statement, the basic message is, “It was all too difficult to sort out, therefore we are going to reward all the companies like Alcoa for their excellent work in polluting the country, and you, the people making all that useless noise and using the valuable resources of the Internet to lodge your pathetic objections to the Labor Government’s profound statement on Carbon Emissions, can take a big jump over a v tall cliff.
As for the poor deluded lady who had hoped that OZ might become a leader on this issue, don’t you know that Australian governments always seek to follow. NEVER TO LEAD.

It makes me pleased I vote for the Greens-that on the one hand. On the other hand I am mortified that I give my prefs to Labor.

I’m going to live in Argentina!

By: Jo McRae

Jo McRae — Mon, 15 Dec 2008 20:16:27 +0000

After listening to the news, it is obvious who Rudd has been listening to – the industries that create the pollution that will destroy our country! Not the people. Other countries are cutting their emissions, and moving on renewable energy – Australia is giving exemption permits to the polluters and allowing renewable energy initiatives to go offshore, because there is no funding or structure for them to develop here.
Australia the Backward country should be our new title.

By: Michael Rynn

Michael Rynn — Mon, 15 Dec 2008 12:13:59 +0000

Perhaps the government really has crunched a lot of numbers. The Carbon Pollution Reduction Scheme however takes the design assumption of minimum impact on economic growth and jobs. A braver assumption would be what reductions can still give a supportable quality of life for all, economic or not? The government is not prepared to pay the political costs of harm to business, industry and jobs in a potential long lasting depression. No pain, no gain.

By: Michael James

Michael James — Mon, 15 Dec 2008 08:53:21 +0000

Even as a sceptic of an ETS I can understand why the government might want to protect carbon-intensive exporters (such as aluminium, though not coal, see below) but I cannot understand how this scheme is supposed to function to reduce emissions. Why give $4 billion to the coal-fired power industry or any money to the coal export industry? The exporters do not themselves burn the stuff so they do not have to pay any fee for carbon released—and they are miners and have no relevant experience or expertise to research “clean coal”. As to the coal-fired power industry, why is any “compensation” necessary, in that if they pay the $23/tonne of carbon they emit, obviously they will be entitled to pass the full cost on to the consumer, many of whom will be compensated by the government (though not the likes of me!). Clearly this gives some chance for clean-power generators (mainly wind and solar-thermal) to compete on the open electricity retail market (and since the pricing is transparent no “cheating” should be possible). Thus the coal-fired companies do not suffer any immediate negative effects and they themselves would be motivated to get into the genuinely low-carbon energy areas. In time the proportion of true clean electricity would increase.
Since only one quarter of coal mined in Australia is consumed locally–mostly by these coal-fired electricity generators– the coal industry will only be minimally affected and only slowly over time. I suppose the (utterly unconvincing) argument is that the coal-fired generators will use this $4B to “research” clean coal. Surely the PM and Penny Wong are too clever and informed to believe this nonsense? Even if they thought it worth supporting due to the political implications why would you give this money to the coal-fired electricity industry or more idiotic, to the miners? You would give it directly to the likes of CSIRO et al.
So we seem to have the worst of all possible worlds. No serious limits on carbon emission, no clean transparent price signals, compensation to the dirtiest emitters (thus undermining any motivation to change) and no serious research into either the fantastical “clean coal” or the alternatives that might/can actually give clean energy now or soon (wind, solar-thermal, geo-thermal). If any bloggers can perceive a rationale, say in a best-case scenario, in the government’s scheme please let us know.

By: Barbara Boyle

Barbara Boyle — Mon, 15 Dec 2008 06:57:21 +0000

For a moment I hoped Australia could be a leader. just for once saying NO to the heavies I hoped that we might see our Government assert that as it would be a good thing for the nation, it was time to make the polluters pay.
My mistake
Sorry, granddaughters.

By: Vicki K

Vicki K — Mon, 15 Dec 2008 06:26:44 +0000

The second to last comment on the live blog is from Agmates. He says: “Sorry to tell you guys this, but ordinary working class Australians, Unionist and farmers don’t support your latte sipping view of the world.”

What an unfortunate comment to finish on. And how completely factually wrong.

What Agmates probably meant was that he and his particular mates don’t ascribe to an environmentally friendly view of the world, having an alternative value system – one that don’t place any value on a healthy planet.

However, I happen to know FOR A FACT that many farmers, unionists and working class people DO place the environment very high on their list of important issues.

How do I know this? My organisation, Environment Victoria works with many such communities, from all around Victoria, including regional. They come from Ballarat and Barmah, from Hattah Lakes and the Gellibrand River. They’re from Yea and Bendigo, from the Mornington Peninsula, and yes, even the western suburbs of Melbourne.

They are new immigrants and fourth generation Aussies. They are farmers and factory workers; they are working class Aussies, business owners and stay-at-home mums; they are property owners and renters. And guess what – wherever they’re from, whatever they do for a living – they all care about the environment and want to safeguard it for the future. Don’t believe me: visit http://www.environmentvictoria.org.au and click on Healthy Rivers and Sustainable Living. You’ll see photos and evidence of it.

Your dichotomous view is outdated and belongs to a vision of environmentalism from the long-ago past. We come from all parts of the community now sunshine, united by our desire to leave a better world to our children than the one we inherited.

Latte sipping? Evangelical notions? That’s a straw-man argument set up because the reality is much harder to refute… and that is that there’s lots of people, just like you, who DO CARE and have long ago realised that there’s NO JOBS ON A DEAD PLANET. Perhaps its time you got real and joined them?

All the best.

By: Keith Hammond

Keith Hammond — Mon, 15 Dec 2008 06:15:27 +0000

Dumb! Dumb! Dumb! Queen Mary sunk! Kevin missed the BIG RISK” Pre-2020 tipping points! Then the Industry WIMPS WILL REALLY SCREAM!

By: Brian Walters

Brian Walters — Mon, 15 Dec 2008 05:48:21 +0000

Carbon capture is real – the ALP has been captured by the carbon lobby. Of course, there were already signs of this. In the May budget the government means-tested solar panels, whilst giving $500 million to the coal industry.
In a way, this announcement was expected, but it still comes as a horrible shock.
Morally, this is an abdication of Australia’s responsibility to the world and to future generations – all for short term gain.
“Business” is divided on this issue. There are those who support the current paradigm – they profit from it. But there are many others – more innovative businesses, and usually smaller – who are looking for leadership to take us towards a different model. Rather than digging ourselves deeper into the greenhouse hole, we could have an inspiring journey into a carbon free future where we are no longer changing the climate and where we live sustainably. And this is a future which will build innovative businesses, create jobs, and make Australia a world beacon in innovation.
Australia is uniquely placed to contribute to resolving the climate crisis. We have great resources of sun, wind and tides, as well as geothermal energy. Our natural forests can be used to sequestrate carbon. We also control 40% of the world’s coal resources.
Instead of a bright new future, Labor is trying harder at the failed policies of the past. The government has set a risibly weak target, and is compensating the polluters at our expense. It could not have been worse under John Howard.
It is hard to credit the monumental scale of this policy failure by a government elected to deal with this issue.
We could be an inspiration to the world. Now we are its pariah.

By: dan cass

dan cass — Mon, 15 Dec 2008 03:58:24 +0000

They says it’s only when someone is under pressure that you know who they really are.

Kevin Rudd was happy to joke with the journalists during his Press Club performance, but when the women from Rising Tide got up and started speaking – silence.

It reminded me of the Chinese Premier’s visit down under. Blacked out buses were hired to shield the delegation from the Tibet protestors; if you don’t look at someone, they don’t exist.