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	<title>Comments on: Is public transport as green as you think?</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/theurbanist/2012/12/04/is-public-transport-as-green-as-you-think/</link>
	<description>Discussion about cities</description>
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		<title>By: Bill Bunting</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/theurbanist/2012/12/04/is-public-transport-as-green-as-you-think/#comment-7603</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Bunting</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2013 01:15:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/theurbanist/?p=22571#comment-7603</guid>
		<description>We are at the cusp of some major changes in transport, but these changes are largely at ground zero. Firstly there is the electric vehicle, slightly above ground zero with the Prius and moving forward with the Volt and others. But to me the most significant is the up coming, slated for production 2013, VW XL1 100klms/ltr diesel electric hybride 2 seater. This vehicle will drop commuter fuel costs to 12% of current consumption for single driver long commutes. 

The second major change is the autonomous drive which is already being partially installed in production vehicles in the form of space managing cruise controls and autonomous parking systems. With both of these elements in the same vehicle most of the autonomous hardware is built into the vehicles (speed, braking and steering servo control along with the speed and vehicle near proximity spatial perception). The rest of the Autonomous control can be a retrofit from that hardware status.

For me the merging of the VW XL1 and autonomous control represents the ultimate freedom from the tyranny of driving, and it achieves this with a fuel efficiency that is a quantum leap improvement in fuel consumption/cost and CO2 emissions. Furthermore this vehicle weighs in at 800kg (half the resources required for production) much of which is composite (Carbon as the main resource consumed) for the body and aluminium (readily recycled) for the engine complex. Should the Envia battery of some other comparible prove successful then the addition of 50kg will give this vehicle an electric capacity over 20Kwhrs which will give it a very substantial all electric range in future versions. So you get the very best of range, fuel flexibility, minimum energy consumption, solar energy compatibility, CO2 emission reduction and commuter functionality. Furthermore the XL1 is a narrow vehicle which will provide advantages in both road space and parking.

Now rethink those figures in comparison to busses and trains and we are looking at a very different possible future world. Once the miniturisation of commuter transport gets a foot hold, and as fuel prices continue to rise, the SUV ballon in vehicle sizes will be arrested. Family vehicle will remain a feature of the future but they will begin to reduce in size, I predict. 

The other feature of Autonomous Control is that there is the very real prospect for driverless taxis and mini busses. One of the failings of our public transport is the complete lack of mini busses in favour of the &quot;one size fits all&quot; 12 tonne buss. It is way past time that got a rethink. 

I for one look forward to 8 or 10 seater driverless all electric microbusses which can be called at will by text message to my phones location and pay for that trip with an Octopus type debit card. This is a very real prospect which could be in use in 6 to 8 years. This is the best future for local public transport interlinking with long haul or underground rail systems. I see this as being fully compatible and commercially viable beside the VW L1 class personal commuter vehicle.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We are at the cusp of some major changes in transport, but these changes are largely at ground zero. Firstly there is the electric vehicle, slightly above ground zero with the Prius and moving forward with the Volt and others. But to me the most significant is the up coming, slated for production 2013, VW XL1 100klms/ltr diesel electric hybride 2 seater. This vehicle will drop commuter fuel costs to 12% of current consumption for single driver long commutes. </p>
<p>The second major change is the autonomous drive which is already being partially installed in production vehicles in the form of space managing cruise controls and autonomous parking systems. With both of these elements in the same vehicle most of the autonomous hardware is built into the vehicles (speed, braking and steering servo control along with the speed and vehicle near proximity spatial perception). The rest of the Autonomous control can be a retrofit from that hardware status.</p>
<p>For me the merging of the VW XL1 and autonomous control represents the ultimate freedom from the tyranny of driving, and it achieves this with a fuel efficiency that is a quantum leap improvement in fuel consumption/cost and CO2 emissions. Furthermore this vehicle weighs in at 800kg (half the resources required for production) much of which is composite (Carbon as the main resource consumed) for the body and aluminium (readily recycled) for the engine complex. Should the Envia battery of some other comparible prove successful then the addition of 50kg will give this vehicle an electric capacity over 20Kwhrs which will give it a very substantial all electric range in future versions. So you get the very best of range, fuel flexibility, minimum energy consumption, solar energy compatibility, CO2 emission reduction and commuter functionality. Furthermore the XL1 is a narrow vehicle which will provide advantages in both road space and parking.</p>
<p>Now rethink those figures in comparison to busses and trains and we are looking at a very different possible future world. Once the miniturisation of commuter transport gets a foot hold, and as fuel prices continue to rise, the SUV ballon in vehicle sizes will be arrested. Family vehicle will remain a feature of the future but they will begin to reduce in size, I predict. </p>
<p>The other feature of Autonomous Control is that there is the very real prospect for driverless taxis and mini busses. One of the failings of our public transport is the complete lack of mini busses in favour of the &#8220;one size fits all&#8221; 12 tonne buss. It is way past time that got a rethink. </p>
<p>I for one look forward to 8 or 10 seater driverless all electric microbusses which can be called at will by text message to my phones location and pay for that trip with an Octopus type debit card. This is a very real prospect which could be in use in 6 to 8 years. This is the best future for local public transport interlinking with long haul or underground rail systems. I see this as being fully compatible and commercially viable beside the VW L1 class personal commuter vehicle.</p>
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		<title>By: Mena</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/theurbanist/2012/12/04/is-public-transport-as-green-as-you-think/#comment-7488</link>
		<dc:creator>Mena</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Dec 2012 04:10:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/theurbanist/?p=22571#comment-7488</guid>
		<description>Studies must have been done looking at the benefits of avoided traffic from those using public transport and bicycles. This would have a positive benefit on the emissions of the cars.   I catch the train because I cant be bothered sitting in Perth&#039;s seriously horrendous traffic. However, if I, and others like me, decided to drive, the whole system would grind to a halt. The emissions from cars would surely increase from the additional time it takes to get where they are going. This is an extra benefit of public transport eh?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Studies must have been done looking at the benefits of avoided traffic from those using public transport and bicycles. This would have a positive benefit on the emissions of the cars.   I catch the train because I cant be bothered sitting in Perth&#8217;s seriously horrendous traffic. However, if I, and others like me, decided to drive, the whole system would grind to a halt. The emissions from cars would surely increase from the additional time it takes to get where they are going. This is an extra benefit of public transport eh?</p>
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		<title>By: sanjay muktar</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/theurbanist/2012/12/04/is-public-transport-as-green-as-you-think/#comment-7486</link>
		<dc:creator>sanjay muktar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2012 22:31:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/theurbanist/?p=22571#comment-7486</guid>
		<description>The full story of how the government of NSW got rid of Sydney trams would be an indication of the corrupt ways our leaders use to justify their transport decisions and the effect they have on air pollution now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The full story of how the government of NSW got rid of Sydney trams would be an indication of the corrupt ways our leaders use to justify their transport decisions and the effect they have on air pollution now.</p>
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		<title>By: Dylan Nicholson</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/theurbanist/2012/12/04/is-public-transport-as-green-as-you-think/#comment-7475</link>
		<dc:creator>Dylan Nicholson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Dec 2012 23:05:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/theurbanist/?p=22571#comment-7475</guid>
		<description>Krammer56 &quot;like most people I expect, I use all three depending on the trip&quot;

If only...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Krammer56 &#8220;like most people I expect, I use all three depending on the trip&#8221;</p>
<p>If only&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: duke the lost engine</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/theurbanist/2012/12/04/is-public-transport-as-green-as-you-think/#comment-7474</link>
		<dc:creator>duke the lost engine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Dec 2012 20:23:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/theurbanist/?p=22571#comment-7474</guid>
		<description>sure we care about marginal emissions per passenger-km when we&#039;re considering choices to increase patronage on existing services - eg our personal mode choice, or policies like densifying around transit, changing price incentives.

but when we&#039;re considering whether to introduce new transit services, we must grapple with average emissions per passenger-km (more specifically, average emissions/pkm on the new service being considered).

generally, i think we should be more seriously grappling with the inevitibilty that moving people consumes energy, and if we&#039;re serious about emissions reductions, sometimes the best policies will be those that encourage less travel</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>sure we care about marginal emissions per passenger-km when we&#8217;re considering choices to increase patronage on existing services &#8211; eg our personal mode choice, or policies like densifying around transit, changing price incentives.</p>
<p>but when we&#8217;re considering whether to introduce new transit services, we must grapple with average emissions per passenger-km (more specifically, average emissions/pkm on the new service being considered).</p>
<p>generally, i think we should be more seriously grappling with the inevitibilty that moving people consumes energy, and if we&#8217;re serious about emissions reductions, sometimes the best policies will be those that encourage less travel</p>
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		<title>By: Smith John</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/theurbanist/2012/12/04/is-public-transport-as-green-as-you-think/#comment-7473</link>
		<dc:creator>Smith John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Dec 2012 12:14:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/theurbanist/?p=22571#comment-7473</guid>
		<description>Alan #15

If the marginal user tips the need for an extra service, you&#039;re still looking at average vehicle occupancy of over 50 per cent, which is probably much higher than the all day average of most Australian PT at present. So there is probably considerable potential for putting more people on existing services at zero marginal cost, at least in off peak times.

Certainly vehicle/km of service is a strong predictor of patronage; more vkm (especially bus) are needed for serious increase of PT use; but that by itself won&#039;t necessarily increase average vehicle occupancy.

But there are things that a well run PT system can do to increase patronage independently of vkm - real time information systems, better network design to support&#039;anywhere to anywhere&#039; travel within the same total vkm budget; infrastructure to improve the speed and reliability of trams and buses. 

These things will tend to increase average vehicle occupancy. They are more likely to happen in an environment of increasing PT use.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alan #15</p>
<p>If the marginal user tips the need for an extra service, you&#8217;re still looking at average vehicle occupancy of over 50 per cent, which is probably much higher than the all day average of most Australian PT at present. So there is probably considerable potential for putting more people on existing services at zero marginal cost, at least in off peak times.</p>
<p>Certainly vehicle/km of service is a strong predictor of patronage; more vkm (especially bus) are needed for serious increase of PT use; but that by itself won&#8217;t necessarily increase average vehicle occupancy.</p>
<p>But there are things that a well run PT system can do to increase patronage independently of vkm &#8211; real time information systems, better network design to support&#8217;anywhere to anywhere&#8217; travel within the same total vkm budget; infrastructure to improve the speed and reliability of trams and buses. </p>
<p>These things will tend to increase average vehicle occupancy. They are more likely to happen in an environment of increasing PT use.</p>
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		<title>By: Alan Davies</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/theurbanist/2012/12/04/is-public-transport-as-green-as-you-think/#comment-7471</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan Davies</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Dec 2012 10:05:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/theurbanist/?p=22571#comment-7471</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Smith John #14&lt;/strong&gt;:

Provided, that is, you&#039;re not the marginal passenger who tips the need for a whole new bus, or worse, train! Best to think in terms of &#039;average marginal (energy etc) cost&#039;, I think. This is getting into the &quot;if the plane is going anyway is it OK to use it?&quot; debate (which is not a bad thing).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Smith John #14</strong>:</p>
<p>Provided, that is, you&#8217;re not the marginal passenger who tips the need for a whole new bus, or worse, train! Best to think in terms of &#8216;average marginal (energy etc) cost&#8217;, I think. This is getting into the &#8220;if the plane is going anyway is it OK to use it?&#8221; debate (which is not a bad thing).</p>
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		<title>By: Smith John</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/theurbanist/2012/12/04/is-public-transport-as-green-as-you-think/#comment-7470</link>
		<dc:creator>Smith John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Dec 2012 09:57:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/theurbanist/?p=22571#comment-7470</guid>
		<description>&#039;Energy use by mode&#039;figures vary widely between sources and should be approached with caution unless they explain their inclusions and assumptions very clearly.

Since the interst of the comparison is in assessing options for change, the marginal user is more important than the average user. 

The comparison with respect to the marginal user is likely to be much more favourable to public transport since:

- as car use increases, energy use per person/km is likely to increase because of congestion;

- as public transport use increases, energy use per person/km is likely to decrease because of better average vehicle occupancy; and because of the efficiencies of things like bus lanes reducing congestion for buses, which are likely to go with increased PT use.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8216;Energy use by mode&#8217;figures vary widely between sources and should be approached with caution unless they explain their inclusions and assumptions very clearly.</p>
<p>Since the interst of the comparison is in assessing options for change, the marginal user is more important than the average user. </p>
<p>The comparison with respect to the marginal user is likely to be much more favourable to public transport since:</p>
<p>- as car use increases, energy use per person/km is likely to increase because of congestion;</p>
<p>- as public transport use increases, energy use per person/km is likely to decrease because of better average vehicle occupancy; and because of the efficiencies of things like bus lanes reducing congestion for buses, which are likely to go with increased PT use.</p>
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		<title>By: Krammer56</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/theurbanist/2012/12/04/is-public-transport-as-green-as-you-think/#comment-7469</link>
		<dc:creator>Krammer56</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Dec 2012 09:18:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/theurbanist/?p=22571#comment-7469</guid>
		<description>One way to look at it is that you can make a PT network greener by increasing patronage - if you increase car use it just goes the other way! Maybe this suggests where we should be putting our effots and money!
Of course, bikes are better again, but like most people I expect, I use all three depending on the trip.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One way to look at it is that you can make a PT network greener by increasing patronage &#8211; if you increase car use it just goes the other way! Maybe this suggests where we should be putting our effots and money!<br />
Of course, bikes are better again, but like most people I expect, I use all three depending on the trip.</p>
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		<title>By: Dylan Nicholson</title>
		<link>http://blogs.crikey.com.au/theurbanist/2012/12/04/is-public-transport-as-green-as-you-think/#comment-7468</link>
		<dc:creator>Dylan Nicholson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Dec 2012 02:55:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.crikey.com.au/theurbanist/?p=22571#comment-7468</guid>
		<description>I would accept though you&#039;d really have to go all out with a PT network vastly more comprehensive, frequent and reliable than we&#039;re close to now to get to the point you could actually make significant reductions in the amount of road infrastructure and number of cars we might need.  At best we can hope to reduce the need for more roads and more cars as population increases.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would accept though you&#8217;d really have to go all out with a PT network vastly more comprehensive, frequent and reliable than we&#8217;re close to now to get to the point you could actually make significant reductions in the amount of road infrastructure and number of cars we might need.  At best we can hope to reduce the need for more roads and more cars as population increases.</p>
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