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Aug 31, 2017

Qantas to resume A380 dailies to London via Singapore

Make no mistake, Qantas is making it clear it is in a new battle with the rise of Singapore Airlines and its Changi hub

This Qantas gamble on Singapore looks pretty safe

A strongly positive analyst response is apparent this morning to Qantas announcing it will resume daily rotations of an A380 to London Heathrow via Singapore from next March, as well as putting the big Airbus on daily connecting flights between Melbourne and Singapore to the same timetable.

The move is seen by one financial analyst as a ‘sharp response’ to the rewed Singapore Airlines’ push to make its Changi hub even more relevant to the Australian market with upgrades to its A350 and A380 flights to this country.

The elimination of any Qantas flights through Dubai from March next year is also a huge boost to Emirates, which has previously signaled that all of its Australian services to major gateways will become A380 operated, and will continue to offer the benefits of Qantas points. Emirates is about the release details of massive upgrades to the cabins on its Airbus flagship.

It also undercuts the argument that Qantas is too Sydney centric, in that the Melbourne A380 upgrade follows the forthcoming rendering of Brisbane as an equal 787-9 capacity base to Melbourne as the airline brings its first tranche of the Dreamliners into service

Qantas group CEO Alan Joyce sees the benefit of the changes to the company as $80 million a year, over the top it seems of retaining the importance and flexibility of the current soon to expire commercial relationship with Emirates.

Most of the official Qantas statement, minus those likely to cause sugar diabetes, is reproduced below.

  • Five year extension to landmark alliance deal
  • Evolution of joint network to offer customers more choice
  • Three options to get to UK/Europe – via Dubai, Perth and Singapore
  • Capacity shifted to fast-growing Asia market
  • Changes to deliver upside to both airlines; Qantas annualised net benefit estimated at more than $80 million from FY19

Qantas and Emirates will apply to extend their cornerstone partnership for another five years[1], making changes to reflect customer demand, new aircraft technology and each airline’s respective network strengths.

These changes will deliver additional benefits to the eight million passengers who have travelled more than 65 billion kilometres on the combined network since 2013, increasing customer choice as well as frequent flyer earn and redeem opportunities.

The adjustments announced today will also deliver financial upside to both airlines, with Qantas annualised net benefit estimated at more than $80 million from FY19 onwards.

Meeting in Sydney to finalise the extension, both airlines agreed the first five years of the partnership had lived up to the promise of serving their customers better, together. Changes to the joint network are designed to reinforce this for the next five years.

KEY CHANGES

The key change will see the airlines better leveraging each other’s networks, by providing three options to Europe – via Dubai, Perth and Singapore[2].

Qantas will re-route its daily Sydney-London A380 service via Singapore rather than Dubai and upgrade its existing daily Melbourne-Singapore flight from an A330 to an A380.  As previously announced, Qantas’ existing Melbourne-Dubai-London service will be replaced with its Dreamliner service flying Melbourne-Perth-London.

A detailed summary of the changes, including effective dates, is provided at the end of this release.

Customer demand for flights between Australia and Dubai will remain well served by the 77 weekly services that Emirates operates from five cities – Adelaide, Brisbane, Melbourne, Perth and Sydney – including seven daily A380 flights. Qantas passengers will still be able to fly on Emirates to Dubai, where they have access to over 60 onward connections on Emirates to Europe, the Middle East and Africa.

CEO COMMENTARY

Qantas Group CEO Alan Joyce said the changes represent an evolution of the partnership to deliver additional benefits for customers, including the millions of frequent flyer members of both airlines.

“The first five years of the Qantas-Emirates alliance has been a great success. Emirates has given Qantas customers an unbeatable network into Europe that is still growing. We want to keep leveraging this strength and offer additional travel options on Qantas, particularly through Asia.

“Our partnership has evolved to a point where Qantas no longer needs to fly its own aircraft through Dubai, and that means we can redirect some of our A380 flying into Singapore and meet the strong demand we’re seeing in Asia.

“Improvements in aircraft technology mean the Qantas network will eventually feature a handful of direct routes between Australia and Europe, but this will never overtake the sheer number of destinations served by Emirates and that’s why Dubai will remain an important hub for our customers.”

Sir Tim Clark, President Emirates Airline, said: “The Emirates-Qantas partnership has been, and continues to be, a success story. Together we deliver choice and value to consumers, mutual benefit to both businesses, and expanded tourism and trade opportunities for the markets served by both airlines. We remain committed to the partnership.

“Emirates has worked with Qantas on these network changes. We see an opportunity to offer customers an even stronger product proposition for travel to Dubai, and onward connectivity to our extensive network in Europe, Middle East and Africa. We will announce updates in the coming weeks.”

KEY CHANGES IN EFFECT FROM MARCH 2018:

  • The choice of three hub options between Australia and UK/Europe – Dubai, Perth and Singapore.
  • From 25 March 2018, QF 1/2 A380 service will operate Sydney – London via Singapore, replacing one of the existing Sydney – Singapore A330 services. The second Sydney – Singapore daily service will continue to be operated by an A330 aircraft.
  • From 25 March 2018, one daily Qantas Melbourne – Singapore service will be upgraded from an A330 to an A380 (QF35/36), with the second three per week service increased to a daily A330 service (QF37/38).

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50 thoughts on “Qantas to resume A380 dailies to London via Singapore

  1. endeavour.paul@gmail.com

    Common sense prevails. No more Qantas in Dubai. The logical hub of Singapore for aficionadoes of the A380 and the hub of Perth for aficionadoes of the 787.

    1. patrick kilby

      And the drip feed of info continues. The next wll be where the other 4 787s will go to as well as Bris-LA-NYC. And will we wait for the A380s to be refurbed before more 787s (in 2020) or will they sneak onother four in in 2019. Juggling CAPEX I expect.
      QF would have got a good deal from Singapore Airport as this may make them the second biggest single customer. And Dubai is becoming too crowded even for EK.

      1. ghostwhowalksnz

        Wasnt Bangkok the London stopover some time back as well.
        Its clear the traffic to London doesn’t support daily 380s from both Sydney and Melbourne on Qantas. It seems the Melbourne LAX daily 380 is in peril too when the 787-9’s arrive.
        Was the trouble with the Dubai hub ( apart from the ones mentioned) that Qantas passengers would deplane and catch a Emirates 380 to a European destination of their choice rather than London ?

        1. johnb78

          IMX the DXB-LHR leg of QF1/2 tended to load better than the SYD-DXB leg, more or less working as an extra EK London frequency. That’s from the cheap seats though – premium may well be a different story.

        2. johnb78

          BKK and HKG were London stopovers alongside SIN until early 2012, when QF and BA both cut their kangaroo flights back significantly. There was a brief period up between then and the EK alliance beginning in 2013 during which you could transfer at BKK or HKG from a Qantas leg to a BA leg.

          1. Jacob HSR

            Johnb78, BKK makes more sense than SIN. If one goes from SYD to LHR via SIN, there is a 14 hour leg. If one goes via BKK, the longest leg is 12.5 hours – better for the spinal and mental health of passengers.

            Not sure if BKK allows 5th freedom flights though.

    2. Dan Dair

      EPgc,
      “aficionados of the 787”

      Interesting concept,
      it’d be less interesting if they were generally configured in the way Boeing marketed them.?

  2. wordfactory

    Qantas is admitting that abandoning Asia as its stopover en route to London in 2012 was a dreadful mistake that it customers did not want — even Qantas’s published market research at the time showed that. The PR spin painting this as an “expansion” of the QF-EK joint venture is Orwellian.

    1. johnb78

      I think that’s a bit strong. Ending the BA deal and doing the Emirates deal was absolutely necessary, as shown by the international segment’s results beforehand and afterwards. Keeping twice-daily London via Singapore at that point would have significantly diluted the Emirates deal’s impact. Now that the concept of travelling Emirates for a one-stop to non-London European cities and getting QF points and status credits is established and the airlines’ relationships are cemented, it makes more sense for QF to leave that operation to EK and focus on its premium London routes (I’d assume QF1 will only go via Singapore for a few more years until it becomes a non-stop, with the A380s moved to enhance Asia capacity).

      1. Dan Dair

        Johnb78,
        “Ending the BA deal and doing the Emirates deal was absolutely necessary, as shown by the international segment’s results beforehand and afterwards”

        I’d be more inclined to agree with you, were it not that Qantas had deliberately massively-overvalued the ‘book-value’ of their aircraft assets, in order to prop-up their overall asset-value & support their share-price.

        When the company wrote-off the nearly $3 billion in overvalued asset-values, it was all about QFI, not the group as a whole.

        With such financial shenanigans, it’s no surprise that QFI wasn’t making money, as their cost-base was massively greater than the true value of their assets
        & many of these overvalued assets were old & comparatively inefficient B747’s.

        Were I in a position to order a forensic examination of Qantas financials, I’d be wondering if all that was put in place to make the Emirates deal look so necessary & inviting at the time. (& which, if any, CEO of a major Australian airline personally benefited from that arrangement.?)
        I can’t see what has changed so significantly within QFI, as an operational-entity, from before the Emirates deal & the write-off, to now.
        I understand that Emirates offers a different & useful set of onward destinations from Dubai, but BA offers better specifically European connections.
        I’ve no doubt that a similar level of European connections could be offered by KLM’s group, Lufthansa & possibly Air France.?

        Perhaps it would be in QF’s interest to maintain the EK agreement
        AND cultivate a new deal with one of those European carriers.?

    2. comet

      It’s obviously an admission that Qantas flying to Dubai was a mistake.

      Now they’ve had to reverse themselves out of the Middle East.

    3. Nick

      Really?
      The share price, traffic numbers, profit and dividends suggest otherwise……

  3. Flying High

    Its vindication of the original decision to JV with Emirates.
    The JV yields such significant benefits to both parties that QF no longer has to fly its own metal to Dubai anymore to justify the partnership.
    Indicates that QF is thinking the asian/me hub will be superfluous in the longer term and will be bypassed by direct flights from Australia. QF can use the A380’s to increase capacity into Asia (without need to purchase more aircraft) in the immediate term and in the longer term will drop the Singapore to London leg to be replaced by direct flights. The days of the red tailed A380 in London are coming to an end.

  4. Deano DD

    It would be great to see Adelaide and Brisbane services all meeting up at Singapore and perhaps with that amount of passengers at the one time, it may justify a second European destination such as Paris or Amsterdam

    1. patrick kilby

      Deano I thought some of the A321NEOs on order would be used with red tails for Adelaide Singapore and (heaven forbid) Canberra Singapore to link with QF1/2. Now bringing the rest of Australia to one-stop to London and Asia would be great. I am booking two stops and 16 hours to pnom penh for example.

    2. moa999

      Joyce mentioned in an interview on SkyNews that he foresaw three Europe destinations – London, Paris and Germany (probably Frankfurt rather than Berlin for business traffic) but flown by the 350/777 from 2022 (and direct) – and I guess back to Sydney and Melbourne as the commencing airport
      Possibly in the meantime that you might get some additional 787s to say fly Brisbane – Singapore – Paris matching the Singapore hub

      1. patrick kilby

        Moa it will probably be via Perth to those places, due to crewing and other logistical issues.

      2. comet

        Joyce said what? That he’s buying the A350 or 777? (I spill my coffee and fall off my chair.)

  5. Deano DD

    The possibilities of a Singapore hub on QF metal
    Sydney a380 continued to London
    Melbourne a380 continued to Germany
    Brisbane 787 continued to Paris
    Adelaide 787 continued to Amsterdam
    Canberra 787 continued to Athens
    Gold Coast 787 continued to Athens
    Cairns 737 continued to Bombay
    Darwin 737 continued to China somewhere

    When the ULHs become available QF could offer up First, Business and Premium economy configured flights from Melbourne and Sydney direct to London
    Getting rid of economy would certainly help with weight issues and could likely be done with currently available or proposed 777s or a350s

    I would love to see the subsidized ME3 wither and die…………

    1. endeavour.paul@gmail.com

      If you can remember back a while, Qantas had a milk run that went something like MEL – SYD – HKG – BKK – SIN – MEL.
      At the time BKK was the QF stop on the way to London. I was in Hong Kong and bought the cheapest ticket to London which was QF, utilising one leg of the milk run combined with the Kangaroo Route from BKK to LHR.
      Using Singapore and the fifth freedom rights there, there is no reason why they can’t do something similar to pick up some Asia to London traffic.

      1. Deano DD

        Particularly with Jetstar Asia and to a lesser extent Jetstar Pacific and Japan feeding in to QF flights to Europe from Singapore
        Another possibility would be Jetstar Asia picking up a few second hand a380 and fly them to Europe, these a380s could be picked up for little more that scrap prices….

      2. Jacob HSR

        Does BKK allow 5th freedom?

        It would be fabulous if QF would fly MEL – BKK – LHR. That would mean no leg is longer than 12.5 hours.

    2. Xoanon

      That’s something I would love to see Qantas do. I assume with a much bigger Premium Economy section, the fares could come down to say, 50% more than Economy; rather than the usual 200-300% more. I can dream!

    3. Dan Dair

      DeanoDD,
      ‘When the ULHs become available’.!!!
      So that’ll give the ME3 (& everybody else), plenty of time to work-out a counter-strategy
      to the prospect of Australian ULR aircraft.?

      1. Deano DD

        Dan Dair
        What possible game plan could you put together over the next few years to counter an airline overflying a hub??
        Personally I don’t believe that ULH flights work for cattle class, but as for First, Business and Premium Economy I would think that there is a business case for this type of service particularly when you are saving 3-4 hours on the trip from Australia’s East Coast, that said Perth offers no real time saving over Dubai
        As for re-routing via Singapore or potentially hubbing via Singapore, one would think that it is a much better than the Middle East and you would be flying Qantas all the way….

        1. Dan Dair

          Deano,
          Much is made, quite rightly, about how much fuel an aircraft has to lift in order to achieve these enormous non-stop ranges.

          Columbo has recently been touted here as a more sensible ‘halfway-point’ for European routing.
          In the past I’ve suggested that Qantas might benefit from opening an operations centre in India (but not Mumbai or New Delhi). The quality of their engineering work, customer service levels & so on is excellent, so a base there would allow QFI flights to be ‘halfwayed’ & hubbed there, but also serviced & maintained there.
          All of which would improve the customer experience & cut the operational costs for the airline.

          I respect Qantas decision to begin non-stop flights to London. I’ve said on these pages that I welcome it BECAUSE it’s something no other airline is offering. But I’m not sure it’s being marketed properly & I agree with you that ‘cramming-them-in’ to a ‘Sardineliner™’ isn’t the way to generate returning customers.?

          Overall, what I’m getting-at is that AJ seems to be pinning a lot of his hopes on ULR, non-stop flights from aircraft that don’t currently exist.
          Other airlines will have plenty of time to analyse the numbers to see what the operational cost-savings of NOT flying non-stop are & what the benefits of ‘hubbing’ from a notional ‘halfway’ point are too.?
          There’s no point in flying a not-full plane non-stop.
          Hubbing out of Perth is the same as hubbing out of Sydney, it’s essentially like going into town, with a stopover at your backyard gate.
          Hubbing out of Singapore, Columbo or India, saves a massive amount of fuel & is halfway there, which makes the connecting flights into part of the journey for the passenger, rather than a necessary evil.?

          1. patrick kilby

            Dan where would they hub from? Colombo’s geography works against it and having visited too many times not the greatest stopover point. I am not a great fan of mid point stops. I prefer a long leg then a short leg. At least a good nights sleep on one leg.

          2. Dan Dair

            Patrick,
            Each to their own….. I generally prefer two similar, but shorter legs.?
            I don’t see Columbo as noticeably geographically-challenged for this task.?
            I would expect that Qantas would be looking to create a transfer-lounge of some description, dedicated to their (& their codeshare) passengers, whichever overseas airport they decided to hub out of.

            This was a key part of the possibilities I imagined for an Indian hub/operations centre.?

  6. patrick kilby

    It just occurred to me that Emirates has stymied the Perth to continental Europe (Paris and Frankfurt) options for QF hence them going very silver about it. The new agreement may be predictated on EK covering continental continental Europe.

    1. patrick kilby

      I meant ‘silent about it’

  7. ggm

    I don’t get all the hyper bowl. It made sense to stop using Changi, and use Dubai for a bit. It made sense to stop flying one craft, and fly another, and do more codeshare. It made sense to re-visit the decision, and the landing slots, and fifth rights and prices, and get a better quote out of Changi and then Dubai got crowded and it stopped making sense to use Dubai quite as much and made more sense to go back to Changi.

    This doesn’t need forensic accounting: its just business.

    1. Dan Dair

      Ggm,
      You could say that,
      & you might be correct, I don’t say that I know better than you.!

      I am concerned that Qantas management engineered the financial quandary QFI found itself in……
      & then engineered the massive write-down in order to lead to profitability for the same division, without any significant change in either overheads/costs or significant increase in passenger numbers.?

      Meanwhile, casual observers look at the current situation & regard Allan Joyce as a strategy-genius
      & forget the years of losses & no dividends,
      much of which was as a direct result of the decisions made at the top-level of QF’s management.?

  8. Chris Randal

    One wonders if this will have any effect on the NZ authorisation of the EK deal.

  9. Chris Randal

    One also wonders if QF will hub at SIN with 787s doing SIN-PAR/FRA/AMS

  10. patrick kilby

    Chris if they did that the hub would be Perth (lower cost) but I suspect part of the new EK deal is they get the action on continental Europe but the ACCC may have something to say about that.

  11. Dan Dair

    Patrick,
    I reiterate my earlier comment;
    ‘Hubbing out of Perth is the same as hubbing out of Sydney,
    it’s essentially like going into town,
    with a stopover at your backyard gate”.

  12. patrick kilby

    Dan the difference is there is not (yet) the range from Sydney hence the need for a top up the fuel at the ‘back gate’, plus the Perth hub will have less backtracking or doglegs from connecting regional and smaller cities such as Canberra and Adelaide. It also gives Perth a same plane connection not only to the UK but also the US.

    1. Deano DD

      Yer like someone will jump on a London to LA via Perth and Melbourne, seriously ????

      Hubbing from Perth is a stupid idea as you still have all the extra fuel costs and weight restrictions of the ULH leg and it’s still 1 stop to Europe
      Far better to set up a hub somewhere in the middle

      Has anyone done the figures on the Roo route or Aus to various points in Europe
      One would suspect that the numbers are massive and I would think that the ME3 flights would be 95% full of passengers heading to somewhere in Europe, add to this those passengers traveling via Asia
      At a rough guess there would be 10,000 passengers per day flying from Australia to Europe
      There is a massive opportunity for Qantas, or even Virgin for that matter, to take a large chunk of this and all it takes is quality service at a reasonable price
      There is a place for East Coast Australia to Europe non stop, mainly for business travelers though and this may account for perhaps 600-700 passengers daily, but the numbers are in the one stop market, which are more for the price conscious passengers

      That brings Jetstar into the equasion
      Maybe the Qantas group are looking at the wrong division to operate an Asian hub to Europe particularly when many of their business customers will opt for a non stop option over a Singapore stop over
      There will be a stack of a380 coming on to the market shortly for not much more than the price of scrapping them
      Perhaps a base in India, with cheap labor (for servicing) may be an option worth considering by Jetstar, along with a few more 787s
      With holiday passengers mostly looking for a cheat seat, this would be right up Jetstars ally
      Offering “budget business”, “real economy” and budget seats they would likely get the numbers to fill the seats

      1. endeavour.paul@gmail.com

        I think some fairly strong demonstrations have been given of the limits as to how far people will travel on an LCC flight.
        Both Scoot and Air Asia have tried heading west with limited success. If they can’t make it work, Jetstar have no hope.
        Meanwhile, Jetstar runs Melbourne to Hawaii flights and manages to be profitable (albeit with no non stop competition at all). This must be about the limits of people’s long distance endurance.
        Whilst veering off topic, interesting to note Tigerair has got approval for flights to the USA!

  13. Dan Dair

    Deano,
    Hubbing from Perth IS sensible at the moment because it’s the ONLY OPTION available.!!
    BUT,
    I don’t think economy passengers will want to make the trip twice; Indeed, I think there’s a good chance a lot will seek to change their return flight to a one-stop somewhere.?

    As I said earlier, I think that hubbing from India or Sri Lanka would make the leg between Australia & the hub into part of the journey. So you get on the plane at your ‘local’ airport & fly direct to the hub at the nominal halfway point.
    So no backtracking & no stopover ‘in your backyard’.!!!

    Regarding JetStar, I think there’s a place for what you’re talking about,
    but equally, if I get off a spacious QF A380 or 350, I’m going to be pretty upset if the connecting flight leaves me crammed-into a JQ B787 for 8 hours.?

    1. Deano DD

      Re the Jetstar option via India perhaps, it would be Jetstar all the way

      Although thinking a bit more, maybe Singapore could work just as well for a JQ as it could also draw from Asian passengers

      But could you see a second hand JQ a380 option ?
      Biggest negative is that they would all be due for major servicing, which one would assume would be relatively cheaply in India
      800 bums on seats per sector and a long sector at that, just imagine how much they would make selling food and drinks….

      One other point that people have not considered on these 20+ hour flights is personal hygiene
      Lets assume you are a morning shower person
      1 hour to the airport
      2-3 hours for check in etc
      22 hour flight
      That’s well over 24 hours since your last shower and last bowel movement
      So not only BO would be an issue, but, every passenger would need to take a dump during the flight
      Assuming 20 minutes per dump (my personal time playing games on an iPhone lol) with around 250 passengers, this equates to 80 odd hours of poo time per 22 hour flight
      Add to this around 1000 (4 per passenger) wee visits at 2 minutes and that’s another 33 hours of toilet time
      Then 1/2 the flight would be women and 1/5 of those would be menstruating and also require extra toilet time
      Allow also for rush hour as our bodies tend to have roughly the same rhythms when it comes to going to the loo and the amount of toilets becomes either 7 constantly occupied or 14-15 allowing rush hour
      How many toilets will there be in the Qantas 787 ?

      1. Dan Dair

        Deano DD,
        Perhaps a little too graphic an analysis, but your point is well-made.!!
        (Perhaps they should issue waiting-tickets like you get at the deli-counters & emergency rooms.?)

        I’ve considered what will become of the SIA A380’s quite a lot
        & to be honest, I’d have thought that SYD-MEL (or similar) would be a more likely candidate for an 800 seater.
        (Upping the availability & lowering the seat-price for that route would kick the prospect of HSR into the very long grass, possibly even into the scrubland.?)

        If you’re on a plane for an hour or two, sitting like a sardine in a tin is bearable.?
        800-odd bums on seats for 10 hours or so, is a bit of a different animal.?
        (The comparatively low seat-count IMO, goes a long way explaining why Emirates gets such positive responses for their A380’s)

        To be honest, I can’t see JetStar venturing into such unknown territory (figuratively & literally) , though I could stretch my imagination to consider Norwegian or maybe Ryanair might be up to the task.?

        I think 600 seats is a much more likely candidate for a low-cost long-range configuration.
        I’m sure there’ll be comparable issues of servicing the passengers other needs, such as the amount (& therefore weight) of food, water, booze etc. necessary on-board to keep them happy, not to mention the difficulty of cabin crew actually getting around so many people.? (extra cabin crew to do the job properly, would mean more overheads for the airline)

        1. Deano DD

          Dan Dair
          One could reduce the cost of flight attendants in twin isle aircraft by having passengers walk to the galley to purchase their food and beverage
          A bit like Ikea where you just grab what you want then make your way to the cashier, this could potentially cut 8 flight attendants down to just 2
          Another alternative could be food and beverage vending machines
          That said saving a few hundred to perhaps a couple of thousand dollars on flight attendants is small change in the total cost of a flight sector

          Jetstar seem to be able to turn a profit on long haul destination like Honolulu, Japan, China and Vietnam, so adding a second leg from say Singapore or Vietnam to Europe should see the same potential profits

          1. Dan Dair

            One of the factors in serving people in their seats is that they stay in their seats.
            As soon as you start to create any kind of self-service facility it invites passengers out of their seats & into the aisles. They’re queuing for everything & getting in eachothers way, as well as blocking the cabin-crews from doing their jobs.?
            You only have to look at any toilet-queue on an aircraft to know what that’s like
            & then you multiply that chaos by however many self-service facilities you’re going to create on-board.?

            I take your point about JetStars current long-haul destinations, but flying-on to Europe would be a completely new level of distance for them.
            They could obviously rely on QF’s existing infrastructure to support them, but I don’t believe that Qantas-group want to devalue the Qantas brand-profile in Europe, just at a time when QFI seems to be standing strong again.?

  14. patrick kilby

    Dan people do economy flights for 17 hours already on the SYD-DFW flights and I for one do it quite regularly. I notice QF is offering me the return leg Madrid Canberra flight via LHR and Perth (and no bus trips at LHR – Iberia uses terminal 3 or at Perth). Two shortish legs and a long leg versus two long legs and a short leg (BXB and Syd) with (possibly) two bus trips (DXB and Syd).

    1. Dan Dair

      Patrick,
      Looks like a very satisfactory homeward flight plan.!

      The SYD-DFW isn’t done by QF at least, in a sardineliner format.?
      DeanoDD & myself were mostly discussing the soon to be available, pre-owned A380’s.
      I honestly can’t see a long-haul market for an 800 seater version (unless they stop employing stewards & stewardess’s & recruit sheepdogs to round everyone up & sit them down.???), though that sort of number on SYD-MEL or similar route, I think could make a lot of sense.?

      1. Deano DD

        Dan Dair
        Only 2 problems with putting an a380 on the golden triangle are
        1) The plane would be on the ground more than in the air
        2) High cycles would make service intervals way shorter

        Better solution
        Run them on hubs via Singapore or wherever to Europe
        Upstairs is Qantas
        Downstairs is Jetstar
        A true code share…..

        1. Dan Dair

          Deano DD,
          High-cycles I agree,
          but worthwhile if they could actually generate an average in excess of 700 passengers for their 800 seat aircraft.?
          I won’t try to do the numbers (not my area of expertise), but if they’re doing 3 or 4 legs per day with say 750 passengers per leg at say $50 single & $75-80 return, would that be enough to make the operation with an A380 start to look commercially viable.?

          “Upstairs is Qantas
          Downstairs is Jetstar”
          Interesting concept,
          It’s a long shot…… but it just might work.?
          (Makes me think of what they say about swans. All sleek & sedate above & all wild paddling below.?)

  15. jon t

    The cost base for QANTAS and EMIRATES is very different and it seems that flying your own planes is yesterdays method of running an international airline. Selling tickets on partner airlines and getting commission is far more cost effective

    1. Dan Dair

      Jon T,
      “flying your own planes is yesterdays method of running an international airline”
      That would be a perfectly sensible statement,
      were it not undermined by QF getting set-up to begin it’s Perth-Heathrow service
      & just announcing that it’s going back to Heathrow via a South Asian hub.!

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